2020 CRF450RWE Problems from day 1

2020CRFWE
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10/14/2020 9:12am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2020 1:45pm
So I bought a brand new 2020 CRF450RWE April 28th 2020 from a dealer in Metuchen, NJ.

After 30min of riding for the 1st time, I noticed when checking the oil level that the oil had a strong smell of pump gas. Which by the way is what they used upon delivering the bike. Thinking that maybe it was ethanol possibly ruining the seals I drained the tank and started using VP T4.

I then went to the track and rode about 2hrs that day. After checking the oil I noticed an even stronger smell of fuel, being VP and the oil looked diluted. Also small amounts of coolant would drain out the waste hose. So when getting home I replaced the coolant with Twin Airs Ice Flow along with an oil and filter change. I then saved the oil and filter and brought the bike back to the dealership to complain about the problem. They ran the bike for only 1/10 as indicated by the hour reader I installed the day of purchase. The dealer said there is no problem and it’s the VP I’m smelling. Wanted me to pay diagnostics despite being brand new and only having little over 2hrs on her.

Being unsatisfied by the dealerships lack of concern I started saving my oil after every change. Also started changing the oil after every ride. The oil started looking better during these changes however the smell was still present. Around 7.8hrs though I noticed coolant spewing from the waste hose again. So to fix this I installed a Tusk 1.8 cap with thermometer, which worked great until the 8.7 mark. Then it just kept spewing coolant. I noticed that when filling the coolant, there is a cloudy look almost like oil mixing with the coolant or gases mixing in the coolant. But the bike never got hot. Would operate in the yellow area on the cap. The only time it went to 210 and up was when the radiators were almost empty. After filling them, the operation temp would be normal and in the yellow.

From my years of working as a car tech, it seems upon manufacturing the head gasket is bad. As if the cylinder pressure is causing the coolant to spew out the waste hose. Am I wrong? My thinking is it 1st started with the oil and now it’s bad to where the cooling system is affected.

The bike has 10hrs on her and has been babied. I’m a “C” class rider if that. So my reason for posting is 1) to see if others have the same issue
2) what could cause this on a brand new bike
3) if the dealership gives me a hard time about fixing this under warranty, what should I do next
4) what should be all replaced to fix this problem. I’m thinking new top end but how do I know it’s not something more? Like should I fight Honda for a new engine?
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LKHill
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10/14/2020 10:12am Edited Date/Time 10/14/2020 10:19am
I don't think a blown head gasket would cause fuel delusion in the crankcase. Most of the time it's caused by a leaky injector and that can cause overheating. There where a lot of reports of the honda 250 and 450 overheating but I never noticed a rash of them at the track. I suppose the head gasket could have been buggered from the factory.

Good luck getting honda to fix it if they can't see blood. I guess you need to go to another dealer and tell them it won't stop pushing coolant, should be pretty easy to prove. If they can't get it to puke in the shop have one of their guys take it riding.
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Leeham
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10/14/2020 11:25am
Maybe do a leakdown test? That would help point you in the right direction. It would give you actual numbers/proof to make the dealer do something about it.
Also those tusk rad caps are junk. I was losing coolant on my 19 250 on cool 65°F days. Switched back to the stock 1.1 cap and my problems on losing coolant went away. Tusk caps have a poor seal and will lose coolant without getting hot.
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kb228
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10/14/2020 12:22pm
Sounds like a blown head gasket and a leaking injector. Thats the only way gas or coolant gets into your oil.
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The Shop

10/14/2020 6:03pm
I had a similar problem with my 19 getting coolant into the engine oil. Ended up being the head gasket. I also bought a brand new 20 CRF450R and it blew up at 1.8hrs, was trying to figure out how I lost coolant in 15 min because it was full when my moto started and after ripping apart the engine found the one head bolt had not been torqued maybe had 5-10ft/lbs? Not saying that is your issue because of the fuel smell but if your losing some coolant and it’s causing a milky oil it could be the head gasket like it was mine.
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2020CRFWE
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10/14/2020 6:35pm
I had a similar problem with my 19 getting coolant into the engine oil. Ended up being the head gasket. I also bought a brand new...
I had a similar problem with my 19 getting coolant into the engine oil. Ended up being the head gasket. I also bought a brand new 20 CRF450R and it blew up at 1.8hrs, was trying to figure out how I lost coolant in 15 min because it was full when my moto started and after ripping apart the engine found the one head bolt had not been torqued maybe had 5-10ft/lbs? Not saying that is your issue because of the fuel smell but if your losing some coolant and it’s causing a milky oil it could be the head gasket like it was mine.
Wow... that sucks on both a 19 and 20. More worried about the 20 since that’s what mine is.
My oil concern may be more of just smell of fuel over full on dilution. However now with the coolant concern, I wonder if it’s coolant that’s mixing in the oil? I have saved my oil from every oil change as I had been having worries since purchase. The problem with my coolant is that it’s being blown out the hose by the cap. From the cap I have, it doesn’t seem to be over heating, just pushes out coolant. The only time it reads hot (200+) is after the coolant is blown out.
2020CRFWE
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10/14/2020 6:37pm
Hamm_racing136 did you fix the problem with the 20 450 and has there been any issues after fixing?
10/14/2020 6:51pm
After starting to dig into the engine the dealership told me to bring it back to them for a possible warranty claim. They ended up finding out the stator melted as well. If the engine got hot enough to do that who knows how deep the heat went and issues it could cause later so they went to Honda for at least a new engine and Honda ended up giving me a new bike, took a few weeks for it to all go through but the new bike has been all good so I’m hoping my other one was just a lemon and this one will be solid.
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FGR01
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10/14/2020 8:14pm
Definitely sounds like a blown head gasket with the coolant over-pressurization.

Also, people seem to think a blown head gasket would not cause fuel smell in the oil. Hell yes it can. All the oil passages between the bottom end and the head are sealed between the cylinder and head by the head gasket, including the cam chain tunnel If the gasket is blown combustion (gas) can easily get into the oil. What does your crankcase breather tube look like? It's probably full of oil that smells like gas fumes because you crankcase is likely receiving combustion pressure.
NeedMoto
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10/14/2020 8:46pm
After starting to dig into the engine the dealership told me to bring it back to them for a possible warranty claim. They ended up finding...
After starting to dig into the engine the dealership told me to bring it back to them for a possible warranty claim. They ended up finding out the stator melted as well. If the engine got hot enough to do that who knows how deep the heat went and issues it could cause later so they went to Honda for at least a new engine and Honda ended up giving me a new bike, took a few weeks for it to all go through but the new bike has been all good so I’m hoping my other one was just a lemon and this one will be solid.
Damn... Sorry to hear! That whole journey sucks donkey dickAngry

Glad you persevered and ended up with a new bike, enjoy!!!
lumpy790
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10/22/2020 8:40am
kb228 wrote:
Sounds like a blown head gasket and a leaking injector. Thats the only way gas or coolant gets into your oil.
A leaking water pump seal will push enough coolant into the crank case to make the oil chocolate milk looking.

Compression is a drastically higher PSI Than the cooling system PSI so it will push CO2 into the cooling system not the other way.

From my old honda car tech days we used this sniffer tester to check the coolant for CO2 to diagnose a head gasket leak.

Other than a leaking injector leaking raw gas into the system a blown head gasket would not push that much fuel mist into the crank case to smell it. Hondas also have a crankcase breather that would suck out most of the fumes too.

IMO it is a leaking fuel injector.

FGR01
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10/22/2020 9:17am
kb228 wrote:
Sounds like a blown head gasket and a leaking injector. Thats the only way gas or coolant gets into your oil.
lumpy790 wrote:
A leaking water pump seal will push enough coolant into the crank case to make the oil chocolate milk looking. Compression is a drastically higher PSI...
A leaking water pump seal will push enough coolant into the crank case to make the oil chocolate milk looking.

Compression is a drastically higher PSI Than the cooling system PSI so it will push CO2 into the cooling system not the other way.

From my old honda car tech days we used this sniffer tester to check the coolant for CO2 to diagnose a head gasket leak.

Other than a leaking injector leaking raw gas into the system a blown head gasket would not push that much fuel mist into the crank case to smell it. Hondas also have a crankcase breather that would suck out most of the fumes too.

IMO it is a leaking fuel injector.

People keep holding onto this "milky oil from a blown water pump seal" idea from back in the 80's when bikes only had a single seal. The truth is basically all bikes now have two seals. One that holds the water in the pump and one that holds the oil in the engine. It is practically impossible for both seals to fail at the same time and for coolant to get to the oil. And, in the event hat this did happen, there is a weep hole between the 2 seals so you would see coolant dripping from the bike immediately.

As for the head gasket, there is both compression, and suction in the cylinder. So CO2 can get to the coolant and coolant can get in the combustion chamber. I'm sure we've all seen droplets of coolant on the piston, head, etc after a blown head gasket and the white smoke and sweet smell of burning coolant coming out the back.

The crankcase breather on Honda MX bikes is sealed with a plug on the end. I bet if the OP takes this plug out he will see a mix of condensed oil vapor and gas that has collected in there.
2020CRFWE
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10/22/2020 1:45pm
So basically despite a video of my bike leaking coolant out the over heating hose, the dealership Cross Country Powersports said they can not duplicate the problem. They claim to have done a pressure test and found zero leaks. I’m calling bullshit and will bringing my bike into work for my techs to do our own diag. I work for a Honda car dealership. If we find a leak present, I’m then getting a lawyer as I have oil samples, videos and then a video of our diag of the problem. Honda is fucking with the wrong person.
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kdawson252
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11/14/2020 12:39pm
Call around to auto repair shops around you and ask if they have a gas analyzer. Have them use it to sniff the cooling system with it looking for any HC (Hydrocarbons). Also have them sniff the oil fill plug. HC will be present in the crankcase but it shouldn't be excessively high. The cooling system should be 0. The bulb tester that Lumpy posted works but a gas analyzer is a lot more precise and can help indicate a small leak more accurately.
rider912
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Beach City, OH US
10/30/2023 4:43am
After starting to dig into the engine the dealership told me to bring it back to them for a possible warranty claim. They ended up finding...
After starting to dig into the engine the dealership told me to bring it back to them for a possible warranty claim. They ended up finding out the stator melted as well. If the engine got hot enough to do that who knows how deep the heat went and issues it could cause later so they went to Honda for at least a new engine and Honda ended up giving me a new bike, took a few weeks for it to all go through but the new bike has been all good so I’m hoping my other one was just a lemon and this one will be solid.

Hello Hamm_racing136.

My son purchased a 2020 CRF450R brand new and, sadly, we have had nothing but problems from day 1. My son is a good C or entry level B harescramble rider. I am a certified master tech and own an automotive repair shop.

This bike overheats in the woods. It overheats on the track. It overheats in a wide open flat field.

During a harescramble It overheated and needed towed in. The dealership and Honda corporate told us that the engine bearings had siezed because it wouldn't crank. I then determined that, like yours I believe, that the stator had melted. A new stator got it running but it will still overheat at random.

We have replaced the head gasket, piston, rings, have even added a cooling fan and an overflow jug.

Honda has taken zero responsibility and just keeps saying that "race machines come without a warranty." 

He has since bought another bike and this one hasn't been ridden in months for fear of breaking down.

We own 4 Honda dirt bikes including this one.

He has dreamt of owning a 450R for years and now this is just a disgusting situation. 

I saw where Honda helped you out and I am wondering if you [or anyone else] could give me any contact information to a dealership that may help us out.

Thank you for any information that you could share.

Carey

10/30/2023 1:32pm

Hey Carey, Sorry to hear about all the issues you guys were having with your 450.  The only reason I was able to get Honda to cover my stator melting was because it happened within the first 2 hours of me having the bike and upon disassembly I found that 2 head bolts hadn’t been torqued causing my issue. 
 

Luckily my dealership I bought it from contacted Honda, and I also contacted Honda to chat with them about it.  It took 2-3 months of back and forth before they finally decided to give me another bike.  Any more hours on the bike though and there was no way they were going to cover it.  
 

The only reason the dealership went to bat for me was since I have a personal relationship with the owner so unless you can get the dealership you bought it from to go to bat for you the dealership I went through won’t want to deal with it especially if you have more than 10 hours on it. 
 

Beyond that issue from the under torqued head causing the overheat I haven’t had any other overheat issues with the Hondas. I’ve also been using Evans coolant ever since which has a much higher boiling point and also a 1.8 pressure radiator cap.

 

Hopefully that helps you out but I would personally sell it and get a new one, sometimes you get a lemon and it seems like that is what happened to your son.  I’ve had a 21,22,23 450R since and I’ve had zero issues. 

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