2018 KX250F shutting down

Related:
Create New Tag

12/13/2018 9:50 AM

kb228 wrote:

Can you post a video?

Titan777 wrote:

I can tomorrow as the dealer is now closed.
Also would like to add that when I put into 1st gear and try to find the clutch engagement point, the bike doesn't shut off. It can move very slowly in that point, like it should.
But once I add throttle it will shut down.
If I do this process more aggressively, throwing a bit clutch and more throttle, it won't shut off.
Bike fires with 1 kick.

No one at other Kawi dealers heard of this issue, they made several phone calls.

Post a video. Cant really give you an answer. What youre describing STILL sounds like the TPS is not correct.

Most dealership mechanics are not good mechanics. I dont trust mine more than i trust pornhub adds saying there are singles in my areas that want to hook up.

|

12/13/2018 8:26 PM

It's real simple if you want to try an diagnose what's going on yourself since a reputable service department should be able to figure it out fairly quickly with the kawi diagnostic software. You'll need the 2 items below, a service manual, a 12v battery and a multimeter. The black harness is what you need to get power to your bike without it running. The other harness is a great tool that will allow you to check just about every sensor that is on your bike. And lastly you'll obviously need the s/m to know how to hook the harness tool up and it will give you diagnostic flow charts with volt and ohms readings so you can figure out if your sensors are within range or faulty. Definitely start with ur TPS though. But don't be surprised if it turns out to be ur ecu. Also like it's been said a video of what ur explaining would help since ur kinda all over the place.

Photo

|

12/14/2018 1:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2018 2:30 AM

kb228 wrote:

Can you post a video?

Titan777 wrote:

I can tomorrow as the dealer is now closed.
Also would like to add that when I put into 1st gear and try to find the clutch engagement point, the bike doesn't shut off. It can move very slowly in that point, like it should.
But once I add throttle it will shut down.
If I do this process more aggressively, throwing a bit clutch and more throttle, it won't shut off.
Bike fires with 1 kick.

No one at other Kawi dealers heard of this issue, they made several phone calls.

kb228 wrote:

Post a video. Cant really give you an answer. What youre describing STILL sounds like the TPS is not correct.

Most dealership mechanics are not good mechanics. I dont trust mine more than i trust pornhub adds saying there are singles in my areas that want to hook up.

We did another diagnosis while bike is running and got this data:

Photo

Photo

Apparently my friend has the same issue. I wanted to swap his fuel tank with mine to check fuel pump but now I can't. He also told me when he touches the clutch the bike stalls. For example exiting a corner with clutch, his bike will shut off.

I will upload a video I did today but seems like there's no problem. As I said it comes and goes. Something triggers it somehow but now it didn't. Bike fired cold with 1 kick.

|

12/14/2018 2:08 AM

Titan777 wrote:

I can tomorrow as the dealer is now closed.
Also would like to add that when I put into 1st gear and try to find the clutch engagement point, the bike doesn't shut off. It can move very slowly in that point, like it should.
But once I add throttle it will shut down.
If I do this process more aggressively, throwing a bit clutch and more throttle, it won't shut off.
Bike fires with 1 kick.

No one at other Kawi dealers heard of this issue, they made several phone calls.

kb228 wrote:

Post a video. Cant really give you an answer. What youre describing STILL sounds like the TPS is not correct.

Most dealership mechanics are not good mechanics. I dont trust mine more than i trust pornhub adds saying there are singles in my areas that want to hook up.

Titan777 wrote:

We did another diagnosis while bike is running and got this data:

Photo

Photo

Apparently my friend has the same issue. I wanted to swap his fuel tank with mine to check fuel pump but now I can't. He also told me when he touches the clutch the bike stalls. For example exiting a corner with clutch, his bike will shut off.

I will upload a video I did today but seems like there's no problem. As I said it comes and goes. Something triggers it somehow but now it didn't. Bike fired cold with 1 kick.

There you go. Your TPS voltage is .57. Thats too lean for that bike. You need to bump it up to .6-.62.

|

12/14/2018 2:46 AM

kb228 wrote:

Post a video. Cant really give you an answer. What youre describing STILL sounds like the TPS is not correct.

Most dealership mechanics are not good mechanics. I dont trust mine more than i trust pornhub adds saying there are singles in my areas that want to hook up.

Titan777 wrote:

We did another diagnosis while bike is running and got this data:

Photo

Photo

Apparently my friend has the same issue. I wanted to swap his fuel tank with mine to check fuel pump but now I can't. He also told me when he touches the clutch the bike stalls. For example exiting a corner with clutch, his bike will shut off.

I will upload a video I did today but seems like there's no problem. As I said it comes and goes. Something triggers it somehow but now it didn't. Bike fired cold with 1 kick.

kb228 wrote:

There you go. Your TPS voltage is .57. Thats too lean for that bike. You need to bump it up to .6-.62.

But it was like this since the day I bought it.
How come when me and my friend (same bikes) touch the clutch while riding, the bike shuts off?

What about the "Abnormal" fuel pump and coil?

Btw, if I move the TPS sensor while it's attached to the computer, I can see the V changing? So it will be simple to adjust without any 5V battery and cables.

|

12/14/2018 2:58 AM

Titan777 wrote:

We did another diagnosis while bike is running and got this data:

Photo

Photo

Apparently my friend has the same issue. I wanted to swap his fuel tank with mine to check fuel pump but now I can't. He also told me when he touches the clutch the bike stalls. For example exiting a corner with clutch, his bike will shut off.

I will upload a video I did today but seems like there's no problem. As I said it comes and goes. Something triggers it somehow but now it didn't. Bike fired cold with 1 kick.

kb228 wrote:

There you go. Your TPS voltage is .57. Thats too lean for that bike. You need to bump it up to .6-.62.

Titan777 wrote:

But it was like this since the day I bought it.
How come when me and my friend (same bikes) touch the clutch while riding, the bike shuts off?

What about the "Abnormal" fuel pump and coil?

Btw, if I move the TPS sensor while it's attached to the computer, I can see the V changing? So it will be simple to adjust without any 5V battery and cables.

I understand it may have been like that when you bought it. I dont believe any bike’s tps is set right from the factory. If you search on here theres thread after thread about TPS voltage problems.

Pulling the clutch should have zero effect on the bike dying. This is what i want a video of. The only way pulling the clutch kills the bike is if something is broken and it stalls the motor.

|

12/14/2018 3:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2018 3:29 AM

kb228 wrote:

I understand it may have been like that when you bought it. I dont believe any bike’s tps is set right from the factory. If you search on here theres thread after thread about TPS voltage problems.

Pulling the clutch should have zero effect on the bike dying. This is what i want a video of. The only way pulling the clutch kills the bike is if something is broken and it stalls the motor.

Sorry for many questions. If it came with 0.57, why just now all the issues? (same with my friend).
What about the "Abnormal" fuel pump and coil?

Oh I forgot to mention, When attached the Kawi Computer, the TPS V didn't change while playing with the throttle. It was still 0.57.

I don't think something is broken, but we tested it a few times, when riding in the parking lot in 1st or 2nd gear, pulling in the clutch killed the bike. Same with my friend, exiting corners at the track with clutch kills his bike too. Doesn't happen all the time.



I tried to put in 1st while clutch pulled and revving but it didn't die. Yesterday it did. (doesn't jump or bump, anything, just suddenly shuts off quietly).

|

12/14/2018 3:26 AM

thanks for the vid.

Because you already know you have fuel delivery issues, id start by first setting your tps voltage to .62. Then fuel pump. Cheapest fix to most expensive.

What happens on the kawi efi, is if the ecu detects fuel pump issues it will kill the ignition. Im leaning towards your fuel pump having an issue after you rev the bike up and it no longer being able to do the job. Once it kills the ignition it flags it in the kawi diag tool.

Quantum makes replacement pumps that arent $400 like the oem one. Ive got one in my kx450 and it works great.

I dont think its something mechanical. Everything sounds fine.

|

12/14/2018 6:27 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2018 6:32 AM

kb228 wrote:

thanks for the vid.

Because you already know you have fuel delivery issues, id start by first setting your tps voltage to .62. Then fuel pump. Cheapest fix to most expensive.

What happens on the kawi efi, is if the ecu detects fuel pump issues it will kill the ignition. Im leaning towards your fuel pump having an issue after you rev the bike up and it no longer being able to do the job. Once it kills the ignition it flags it in the kawi diag tool.

Quantum makes replacement pumps that arent $400 like the oem one. Ive got one in my kx450 and it works great.

I dont think its something mechanical. Everything sounds fine.

Thanks for your kind help. It's much appreciated.

if the fuel pump is bad, why in the second video the bike was fine? I even tried to ride it and it in the parking lot and felt like there's no issue.
How can a faulty pump just come and go?

Also if both me and my friend have the same issue of faulty fuel pump, can we report a claim to our local dealer where we purchased it and get it fixed for free or some serious discount? Quite ridiculous it got bad after 34 hours and I'm not riding hard.

Could it be an ignition coil issue or the ignition coil shows "Abnormal" because of the bad fuel pump killing the ignition?

Can't believe my local dealer can't know these things and I need to dig in forums to get the answers ):

|

12/14/2018 6:35 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2018 6:37 AM

kb228 wrote:

thanks for the vid.

Because you already know you have fuel delivery issues, id start by first setting your tps voltage to .62. Then fuel pump. Cheapest fix to most expensive.

What happens on the kawi efi, is if the ecu detects fuel pump issues it will kill the ignition. Im leaning towards your fuel pump having an issue after you rev the bike up and it no longer being able to do the job. Once it kills the ignition it flags it in the kawi diag tool.

Quantum makes replacement pumps that arent $400 like the oem one. Ive got one in my kx450 and it works great.

I dont think its something mechanical. Everything sounds fine.

Titan777 wrote:

Thanks for your kind help. It's much appreciated.

if the fuel pump is bad, why in the second video the bike was fine? I even tried to ride it and it in the parking lot and felt like there's no issue.
How can a faulty pump just come and go?

Also if both me and my friend have the same issue of faulty fuel pump, can we report a claim to our local dealer where we purchased it and get it fixed for free or some serious discount? Quite ridiculous it got bad after 34 hours and I'm not riding hard.

Could it be an ignition coil issue or the ignition coil shows "Abnormal" because of the bad fuel pump killing the ignition?

Can't believe my local dealer can't know these things and I need to dig in forums to get the answers ):

Like i said, dealership mechanics arent that great. In my experience, theyre only good for doing oil changes and tire changes. Its hard to trust them with major issues. Small shops are better.

Anyways, electrical stuff can be on and off. I dont know why. I had a sensor on my kx450 that gave me intermittent issues.

If both your bikes are doing it, my guess is you got fhe same batch of dirty gas and it broke the pump.

Edit: just to add, if the ecu detects ignition coil issues it also kills the bike. All of this type of info is in a chart in your service manual.

|

12/14/2018 6:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2018 7:11 AM

kb228 wrote:

Like i said, dealership mechanics arent that great. In my experience, theyre only good for doing oil changes and tire changes. Its hard to trust them with major issues. Small shops are better.

Anyways, electrical stuff can be on and off. I dont know why. I had a sensor on my kx450 that gave me intermittent issues.

If both your bikes are doing it, my guess is you got fhe same batch of dirty gas and it broke the pump.

Edit: just to add, if the ecu detects ignition coil issues it also kills the bike. All of this type of info is in a chart in your service manual.

But it's a very small city, most of the gas stations here have the same fuel from the same source.

My friend just updated me that they found some ripped sensor wires under the air filter? Sounds totally weird.. He said they fixed the problem.
(He didn't do a diagnosis like I did with the Kawi computer).

|

12/14/2018 7:30 AM

Titan777 wrote:

Thanks for your kind help. It's much appreciated.

if the fuel pump is bad, why in the second video the bike was fine? I even tried to ride it and it in the parking lot and felt like there's no issue.
How can a faulty pump just come and go?

Also if both me and my friend have the same issue of faulty fuel pump, can we report a claim to our local dealer where we purchased it and get it fixed for free or some serious discount? Quite ridiculous it got bad after 34 hours and I'm not riding hard.

Could it be an ignition coil issue or the ignition coil shows "Abnormal" because of the bad fuel pump killing the ignition?

Can't believe my local dealer can't know these things and I need to dig in forums to get the answers ):

kb228 wrote:

Like i said, dealership mechanics arent that great. In my experience, theyre only good for doing oil changes and tire changes. Its hard to trust them with major issues. Small shops are better.

Anyways, electrical stuff can be on and off. I dont know why. I had a sensor on my kx450 that gave me intermittent issues.

If both your bikes are doing it, my guess is you got fhe same batch of dirty gas and it broke the pump.

Edit: just to add, if the ecu detects ignition coil issues it also kills the bike. All of this type of info is in a chart in your service manual.

Titan777 wrote:

But it's a very small city, most of the gas stations here have the same fuel from the same source.

My friend just updated me that they found some ripped sensor wires under the air filter? Sounds totally weird.. He said they fixed the problem.
(He didn't do a diagnosis like I did with the Kawi computer).

They make fuel filters that go inside your tank so you filter out the crap in the gas.

That sensor would likely be the air temp sensor. If its broken its going to throw everything off.

|

12/14/2018 8:01 AM

kb228 wrote:

They make fuel filters that go inside your tank so you filter out the crap in the gas.

That sensor would likely be the air temp sensor. If its broken its going to throw everything off.

When the bike was plugged into the Kawi system and showed TPS at 0.57V - if I play with throttle, it should have increased the V on the screen? It didn't. It was 0.57 even when revving..

|

12/14/2018 9:44 AM

Titan777 wrote:

But it's a very small city, most of the gas stations here have the same fuel from the same source.

My friend just updated me that they found some ripped sensor wires under the air filter? Sounds totally weird.. He said they fixed the problem.
(He didn't do a diagnosis like I did with the Kawi computer).

kb228 wrote:

They make fuel filters that go inside your tank so you filter out the crap in the gas.

That sensor would likely be the air temp sensor. If its broken its going to throw everything off.

Titan777 wrote:

When the bike was plugged into the Kawi system and showed TPS at 0.57V - if I play with throttle, it should have increased the V on the screen? It didn't. It was 0.57 even when revving..

Dont know what to tell you on that one. Ive always used the multimeter method.

|

12/14/2018 11:32 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2018 11:47 PM

Titan777 wrote:

When the bike was plugged into the Kawi system and showed TPS at 0.57V - if I play with throttle, it should have increased the V on the screen? It didn't. It was 0.57 even when revving..

|

12/15/2018 7:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/15/2018 7:18 AM

kb228 wrote:

They make fuel filters that go inside your tank so you filter out the crap in the gas.

That sensor would likely be the air temp sensor. If its broken its going to throw everything off.

Titan777 wrote:

When the bike was plugged into the Kawi system and showed TPS at 0.57V - if I play with throttle, it should have increased the V on the screen? It didn't. It was 0.57 even when revving..

cowasocki205 wrote:

That's the problem?
The TPS should have increased voltage on the screen when revving?
I can try and do a manual test without the software for a last resort.

Can this issue cause the fuel pump / ignition coil to show "Abnormal" on the software?

How can this sensor go bad so fast by itself? Really hope Kawi gonna take the blame.

|

12/16/2018 5:53 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/16/2018 5:54 AM

kb228 wrote:

Dont know what to tell you on that one. Ive always used the multimeter method.

We finally attached a multimeter to the TPS connector (without a 5V battery) and it gave us a reading, even when moving the throttle handle.
We got 0.77 ohm at closed throttle and we checked again and got 0.70.
WOT I think we got around 4.7, don't remember exactly.
The Sensor showed ~5.00 as most output.

Don't know why with the Kawi software it showed 0.57 but didn't change when moving throttle. Maybe it can't check it.

|

12/16/2018 6:17 AM

Titan777 wrote:

When the bike was plugged into the Kawi system and showed TPS at 0.57V - if I play with throttle, it should have increased the V on the screen? It didn't. It was 0.57 even when revving..

kb228 wrote:

Dont know what to tell you on that one. Ive always used the multimeter method.

Titan777 wrote:

We finally attached a multimeter to the TPS connector (without a 5V battery) and it gave us a reading, even when moving the throttle handle.
We got 0.77 ohm at closed throttle and we checked again and got 0.70.
WOT I think we got around 4.7, don't remember exactly.
The Sensor showed ~5.00 as most output.

Don't know why with the Kawi software it showed 0.57 but didn't change when moving throttle. Maybe it can't check it.

Read carefully.

You need to measure VOLTAGE. Not ohms. You dont have voltage in the system without a 12v battery.

|

12/16/2018 6:25 AM

Heres the page from my kx450 manual on checking the TPS. Should be very similar on your bike. Photo


|

12/16/2018 6:57 AM

If TPS sensor doesnt pan out. Check out tip over sensor above cylinder head, mounted on frame underneath tank, it's a little black box, had one go bad once, was pretty intermittent.

|

12/16/2018 9:18 AM

kb228 wrote:

Heres the page from my kx450 manual on checking the TPS. Should be very similar on your bike. Photo


Thanks man!
Can you upload the Ignition Coil page too? Want to see how much resistance for the coil test.

|

12/16/2018 3:07 PM

Thought you said you have the manual?

|

No brains, No headaches.

12/16/2018 3:38 PM

kb228 wrote:

Heres the page from my kx450 manual on checking the TPS. Should be very similar on your bike. Photo


Titan777 wrote:

Thanks man!
Can you upload the Ignition Coil page too? Want to see how much resistance for the coil test.

You should be using your manual. Mine is for my 2009 kx450. Theyre very similar, but different

|

12/16/2018 3:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/16/2018 4:21 PM

kb228 wrote:

You should be using your manual. Mine is for my 2009 kx450. Theyre very similar, but different

Oh, sorry..

I'm starting to lose my mind over this bike, the shop doesn't do anything, my bike just sits there.
I think I will call a Kawasaki manager to tell them about my local dealer. It's been 2 weeks now and nothing new. They don't have a clue about the issue.
The shop doesn't want to order an ignition coil to check if that's the problem because if it's not they'll have nothing to do with the coil.
What a joke! Return it and get a refund.

I think the problem started when I tried the aggressive coupler for the first time. The bike was sitting for 1.5 months before that.
Maybe that + bad fuel caused the problem?


I will try to take old gas out and put new gas. Maybe it will help ): I'm so upset, have new gear, new tires, perfect weather now, but can't ride.

|

12/16/2018 5:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/16/2018 5:25 PM

You are looking for a .62v reading at the TPS with the throttle closed. That will increase the TPS reading at idle speed.
I know the factory shows and in fact is set lower (.48-.5v) when shipped, but that is just too lean.
You are also looking for a reading of about 5v at WOT to be sure the TPS is working correctly. The TPS reading should change ( increase) as the throttle is opened more and more. If this in not the case, the TPS is not working correctly. It could be a wiring harness issue or a bad TPS.

Also your old gas will have a big effect on the running of the bike. If the bike set that long with old gas, then you may also have a dirty fuel injector. Clean it. The old gas can also make the fuel pump filter become dirty.

Paw Paw

|

12/16/2018 5:38 PM

I wouldnt use pump gas if its been sitting over a month. Replace it and see what happens.

|

12/16/2018 6:21 PM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

You are looking for a .62v reading at the TPS with the throttle closed. That will increase the TPS reading at idle speed.
I know the factory shows and in fact is set lower (.48-.5v) when shipped, but that is just too lean.
You are also looking for a reading of about 5v at WOT to be sure the TPS is working correctly. The TPS reading should change ( increase) as the throttle is opened more and more. If this in not the case, the TPS is not working correctly. It could be a wiring harness issue or a bad TPS.

Also your old gas will have a big effect on the running of the bike. If the bike set that long with old gas, then you may also have a dirty fuel injector. Clean it. The old gas can also make the fuel pump filter become dirty.

Paw Paw

Unless I’ve been mislead, the TPS output voltage should be between 3.65-3.85v at wide open throttle. I don’t mean to correct you Paw; just looking for the correct value.
Photo


|

12/17/2018 11:19 AM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

You are looking for a .62v reading at the TPS with the throttle closed. That will increase the TPS reading at idle speed.
I know the factory shows and in fact is set lower (.48-.5v) when shipped, but that is just too lean.
You are also looking for a reading of about 5v at WOT to be sure the TPS is working correctly. The TPS reading should change ( increase) as the throttle is opened more and more. If this in not the case, the TPS is not working correctly. It could be a wiring harness issue or a bad TPS.

Also your old gas will have a big effect on the running of the bike. If the bike set that long with old gas, then you may also have a dirty fuel injector. Clean it. The old gas can also make the fuel pump filter become dirty.

Paw Paw

pCp 252 wrote:

Unless I’ve been mislead, the TPS output voltage should be between 3.65-3.85v at wide open throttle. I don’t mean to correct you Paw; just looking for the correct value.
Photo


I know what you are stating is correct right from the manual, but understand those reading are based on the .48v throttle closed setting which is just too lean. The range of the TPS is from .5v to 5v and if set at .62v at closed throttle the higher reading closer to 5 v at WOT will produce a better a better fuel mix all the way up the rpm range.
The bike needs more fuel to run correctly.
The shown .57v at the set rpms in the above supplied graphs is indicating a lean condition as well, but even that is based off the manuals initial setting and is too lean.
You ad that to the old fuel issue and there are problems to be corrected.
It is like everything is set lean for some EPA or federal regulation issues when these bike need more fuel for proper performance.

Paw Paw

|

12/17/2018 1:13 PM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

I know what you are stating is correct right from the manual, but understand those reading are based on the .48v throttle closed setting which is just too lean. The range of the TPS is from .5v to 5v and if set at .62v at closed throttle the higher reading closer to 5 v at WOT will produce a better a better fuel mix all the way up the rpm range.
The bike needs more fuel to run correctly.
The shown .57v at the set rpms in the above supplied graphs is indicating a lean condition as well, but even that is based off the manuals initial setting and is too lean.
You ad that to the old fuel issue and there are problems to be corrected.
It is like everything is set lean for some EPA or federal regulation issues when these bike need more fuel for proper performance.

Paw Paw

Tried new fuel today and was working great for 5-10 min and felt a little choke for a second. Kept riding, was good for a couple miles and the issue came back, when letting off throttle or rpms go down a bit (or when not accelerating) bike felt dead (engine wasn't shut off yet) and the throttle had zero response, engine braking, hit the brakes to a complete stop and the bike shuts off. Kick start 1-2 kicks and kept riding, tried to do everything to copy the issue but can't, it just comes randomly or something weird. Later the bike would shut off when disengaging clutch while riding and wanting to brake or stop (not always).

Anyways I called the Kawasaki manager and told my story, and the bike being at the shop for 2 weeks with not progress, and they will pickup my bike (220 miles away) and fix my bike. Let's hope for the best.

While it goes to the Kawi center, should I have the fork oil changed? Never had it done before.
Should I get the valves inspected / adjusted? I mean, finally a professional will have my bike, thought it would be a good idea to do everything needed.

|

12/17/2018 1:33 PM

Keith72 wrote:

Thought you said you have the manual?

I thought so too.. Don't have it, just the owner's manual \:

|