2014 KX450f bog and hesitation at 1/4 throttle

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9/25/2018 7:04 AM

So bought a used 2014 KX450f in great shape, was vet owned with less than 20hrs on it.

Full disclaimer this is my first DFI bike and I am lost in troubleshooting this issue and hope to get some others to help lead me down many rabbit holes

Symptoms:
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1- Bike starts cold or hot with out issue

2- Idles for about 10 secs and then starts to hesitate/blubbers and then dies

3- Starts right back up and repeats steps 1-2

4- If I can keep it running and start to ride everything seems fine but slowing down and having to start from low idle it blubbers and pops and I have to work the clutch and get the RPM's up to keep it running

5- this all seems to happen at 1/4" or less

6- Slowly rolling the throttle on up to 1/4 throttle is where it seems to be happening. Past a 1/4" throttle it is fine. Let the idle drop down and it hesitates/blubbers and dies

7 If I can keep it running after it hesitates/blubbers it will hit hard and will be fine if I stay on the throttle

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- Running Chevron 93 gas
- Air Filter is clean
- No engine mods
- PC Ti-6 Full exhaust
- Black Coupler (I have tried swapping out for the other two and same issue)

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/25/2018 9:04 AM

did you try upping the idle? maybe it was set to low?

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9/25/2018 9:43 AM

In addition to the idle setting may I suggest...
1. Dirty fuel injector
2. TPS setting may be a bit low.
3. Make sure your fuel filter is clean and the fuel pump is working correctly.

Paw Paw

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9/25/2018 10:03 AM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

In addition to the idle setting may I suggest...
1. Dirty fuel injector
2. TPS setting may be a bit low.
3. Make sure your ...more

#3 you are referring to the Fuel Pump Filter?

I thought that this can't be cleaned? That the entire pump has to be replaced?

Plan on puling the injector and cleaning it.

How is the TSP set? Any link to look at?

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/25/2018 11:50 AM

Fuel filter cant be replaced. Quantum fuel systems sells a replacement pump and replacable filter for $80. I have one in my bike and it works great. Its better than buying a $350 fuel pump assembly.

TPS setting is reletively involved. You need to make your own harness and follow the service manuals instructions and schematics. Id suggest taking it to a dealer to have it done based on your experience level with efi.

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9/25/2018 1:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/25/2018 1:04 PM

Thanks for an update....I guess you dont know our tech in my area.....look I can do everything from bottom to top, even re-vale suspension!

Yes this is my first EFI bike and I want to learn how to fish and not be fed for a day, Thus post to get some ideas and rabbit holes to go down an learn so I can feed myself.

I refuse to take my bike to the $TEALER$!!

In all honesty I'd rather pay the $500+ for a Kawasaki EFI tool

Once I can get my head around this and what are common issues......

thanks

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/25/2018 1:14 PM

If you take it to a dealer for the TPS adjustment, ask that they set it at about .6 volt as most factors send the bikes out with the TPS set at .48-.50 volts. On most bikes that is a bit lean.
As stated the fuel pump and filter are a unit and have to be replaced as a unit. The filter normally gets clogged prior to the pump failing from over heating due to reduced fuel flow to the pump, which is the cooling system for the pump as well.

Paw Paw

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9/25/2018 2:50 PM

Change the spark plug. My father had the same issues with his 2014. Changed the spark plug and problem solved. I’d try that first before messing with the TPS and if it solves it, it’s a cheap fix.

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9/25/2018 6:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/25/2018 6:35 PM

Garrett314 wrote:

Change the spark plug. My father had the same issues with his 2014. Changed the spark plug and problem solved. I’d try that ...more

Changed the plug and gapped it no change. Took some video's of the issue.

On the Launch Control when the bike dies are these the diag blinks? Is that 4 short and 1 long? Does it mean anything at all?

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Hope this helps!
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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/25/2018 6:25 PM

First of all your idle is too low. Its set to 1300. I can see it on your hour meter. That bike should be at 2000 +/-50

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9/25/2018 6:25 PM

That flashing light is a code for the mechanic to read for the issue at hand.
To me it just sounds like the idle is set too low.

Paw Paw

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9/25/2018 6:51 PM

I actually increased the idle in the 2nd video

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/25/2018 8:34 PM

The second video shows fuel starvation. Bad fuel pump or clogged filter as already stated.

Paw Paw

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9/26/2018 7:33 AM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

The second video shows fuel starvation. Bad fuel pump or clogged filter as already stated.

Paw Paw

Hmm just find it hard to believe a bike with only 20 hrs on it that the pump would be an issue.

If the filter was clogged wouldn't performance suffer beyond 1/4 throttle?

I'll pull the Pump tonight and see if anything can be seen

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/26/2018 8:22 AM

I bought my 14 kx 450 brand new and running pump gas 93 it didn't like to idle at first on cold start first time id fire 2 or 3 kicks and would idle for a few seconds and shut off. Never had any issues with bogging. I moved back home with easy access to avgas which I almost always run. Drained my tank filled with avgas and it fires right up and has a very clean healthy idle. I definitely noticed it also ran better not that there was ever an issue it just felt better in the throttle and all around.

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9/26/2018 8:42 AM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

The second video shows fuel starvation. Bad fuel pump or clogged filter as already stated.

Paw Paw

theDogger wrote:

Hmm just find it hard to believe a bike with only 20 hrs on it that the pump would be an issue.

If the filter was clogged ...more

Fuel pump and the injector arent the only things that cause fuel starvation issues. TPS sensor being off, coolant temp sensor, air temp sensor, fuel map, poor blend of gas can all cause starvation issues.

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9/26/2018 10:06 AM

Paw Paw 271 wrote:

The second video shows fuel starvation. Bad fuel pump or clogged filter as already stated.

Paw Paw

theDogger wrote:

Hmm just find it hard to believe a bike with only 20 hrs on it that the pump would be an issue.

If the filter was clogged ...more

kb228 wrote:

Fuel pump and the injector arent the only things that cause fuel starvation issues. TPS sensor being off, coolant temp sensor, ...more

So the 2 video's show the issue at start up and trying to keep it running.

I can actually get running and test up the street and once past 1/4 throttle the bike responds as expected.....when I slow and have to make the 180 at the end of the street and start to roll the throttle on it again start to sputter and I have to Clutch and rev to keep it running it will finally hit and its good

I can ride at the track but have issues if I have to slow and then get on it out of tight corners....straights and jumping are no issue as I am not in the 1/4 throttle range

Hope that makes sense

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/26/2018 10:08 AM

what is the idle set to now?

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9/26/2018 11:30 AM

Does the bike stay running if you pull the high idle knob?

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9/26/2018 11:34 AM

fourfourone wrote:

what is the idle set to now?

Not sure as I can't get it to keep idling

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/26/2018 11:34 AM

kb228 wrote:

Does the bike stay running if you pull the high idle knob?

It just dies quicker if the choke it pulled

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/26/2018 12:15 PM

Is your throttle cable adjusted correctly? Like its not holding the butterfly open too much at closed throttle?

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9/26/2018 12:54 PM

I do not any longer think it is fuel starvation ( after reading the newer post), but rather idle is set too low or maybe an air leak or a dirty fuel injector or bad TPS setting. If it were fuel starvation it would continue through the rpm range.

Paw Paw

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9/27/2018 10:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/27/2018 10:32 AM

OK Checked the TPS last no just resistance and it measured 4.6 ohms.

Service manually states 4k ~6k I am getting a 12v batty today to get that hooked up to test the voltage of the TPS

So backing up I did not have this issue when the bike was first bought. I rode it a few times just up and down the street, I then framed the bike to make sure that there were no bad parts (Boltz etc), re-grease everything and also to replace some parts to update to my preferences.

Suspension, bars, tires, pipe, gearing etc....

I am wonder if maybe I did not get the main wiring harness routed correctly, I took picks, I did notice in the Service Manual in the Appendix section that shows routing of the wire that its specific about the CDI ground wire not touching the spark plug wire...and also the rectifier not touching the radiator and ground wire (would not assume that this would be an issue as it is in a rubber boot)

I checked and everything looks good....

So next step is cleaning the Injector and pulling the Fuel Pump to inspect. If after that all looks good guess I am giving in and taking it to the $tealer!

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/27/2018 10:35 AM

Photo

Photo

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/27/2018 11:47 AM

theDogger wrote:

I actually increased the idle in the 2nd video

Your idle in the 2nd video was still only 1500rpm. Bump it up more

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9/28/2018 5:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/28/2018 5:53 AM

theDogger wrote:

I actually increased the idle in the 2nd video

kb228 wrote:

Your idle in the 2nd video was still only 1500rpm. Bump it up more

Right so that was the first thing I tried but the bike does not stay running long enough to even see if bumping the idle helps.

If I start the bike cold its start up easy and sounds good then as you see in the video is starts to stumble and dies.

I have tried adjusting it before starting and while trying to keep it running and there is no change? I realize that I cleaned the injector last night with the Motion Pro Injector tool and no change. Still the same results.

I guess I am going to bite the bullet and take the bike in and get bent over!

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/28/2018 7:48 AM

theDogger wrote:

I actually increased the idle in the 2nd video

kb228 wrote:

Your idle in the 2nd video was still only 1500rpm. Bump it up more

theDogger wrote:

Right so that was the first thing I tried but the bike does not stay running long enough to even see if bumping the idle ...more

Well if it makes you feel better, kawasaki charges 1 hour for diagnosis. I took my kx450 in and they spent an entire week on it and charged me 1 hour. Hope your dealer is the same

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9/28/2018 10:58 AM

kb228 wrote:

Your idle in the 2nd video was still only 1500rpm. Bump it up more

theDogger wrote:

Right so that was the first thing I tried but the bike does not stay running long enough to even see if bumping the idle ...more

kb228 wrote:

Well if it makes you feel better, kawasaki charges 1 hour for diagnosis. I took my kx450 in and they spent an entire week on ...more

I hope so they quoted me 1 hrs @ $160 and will call and provide an update to the issue found and the cost to fix it.

Hopefully at that point I can just get a summary and take care of it myself...Ill update

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#TRUMP2020
#NOLIBTARDS

9/28/2018 4:35 PM

theDogger wrote:

Right so that was the first thing I tried but the bike does not stay running long enough to even see if bumping the idle ...more

kb228 wrote:

Well if it makes you feel better, kawasaki charges 1 hour for diagnosis. I took my kx450 in and they spent an entire week on ...more

theDogger wrote:

I hope so they quoted me 1 hrs @ $160 and will call and provide an update to the issue found and the cost to fix it.

...more

Good deal man. Glad kawi is consistent. Ill tell you what though, its better to spend that $160 once instead of throwing parts at it.

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