2003 CR250 Keihin PWK Conversion

taylor797
Edited Date/Time 11/8/2018 3:28am
Hi everyone,

I have been researching carb options for my dad's 2003 CR250R as we haven't been able to get the stock TMX to run great. We've had the bike for a few years and I found it to be jetted pretty well as I ride lots of wide open throttle, but now that my dad is riding it using more low end and mid range he finds it lacking.

We have settled on the 38MM PWK Air Striker from Keihin based on the reviews from the forum and I found Digger's recommendation for a Suzuki NEDW needle in #3 with a 42 pilot and 172 main. I am in Sault Ste Marie, ON Canada (~600 ft elevation), do you guys think this would be a good starting point for jetting?

Thanks in advance!
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kott0n
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kott0n 3/15/2017 7:53am
3/15/2017 7:53am
Pilot seems low. I run a 55 keihn pilot on the same carb with the same main jet at sea level. This is on a 89 CR500 motor however.
taylor797 3/15/2017 8:00am
3/15/2017 8:00am
Thanks for the advice, maybe there will be others running a 250 that will have an idea as well. Also I should mention the bike has a Pro Circuit pipe and silencer. Thanks again
Jake_CR250R
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Jake_CR250R 3/15/2017 10:36am
3/15/2017 10:36am
I'm using the red JD jet needle, 172 main, and 55 pilot (I think).
taylor797 3/15/2017 10:46am
3/15/2017 10:46am
Awesome thanks for the reply, I'll look into the JD jetting options. I noticed they even sell a carb with their kit in it.

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Glen
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Glen 3/15/2017 3:44pm
3/15/2017 3:44pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2017 3:45pm
taylor797 wrote:
Awesome thanks for the reply, I'll look into the JD jetting options. I noticed they even sell a carb with their kit in it.
I would go with that. I bought one from ebay for an '00 CR250 with stock jetting, it did not run correctly on my stock '02 CR250. It was hard to start and would bog at half-throttle. I bought a JD kit and it was perfect right out of the box. Runs great now. So if you bought the whole thing from JD you'd be way ahead
Honda11
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Honda11 3/15/2017 4:04pm
3/15/2017 4:04pm
I would go with the JD carb as well. I picked one up last year for my 02 CR250, and it was the best upgrade I did to that bike. I think it was only about $250 for the complete carb, with a JD jet kit as well. It was also already set up for my location. I see some carb you have to make slight modifications or change the throttle cables, but the carb from JD was directly bolt in, I didnt have to change a thing.
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MxKing809 3/15/2017 4:19pm
3/15/2017 4:19pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2017 4:19pm
Send your TMX to Chad Watts..... thank me later
MxKing809
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MxKing809 3/15/2017 4:21pm
3/15/2017 4:21pm
Here are mine that he spruced up! Grinning



taylor797 3/15/2017 4:25pm
3/15/2017 4:25pm
Thanks for your replies everyone! I am leaning toward the JD carb after reading more reviews but those pics of the TMX look awesome MxKing, I'll read more about what he does.
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digger 3/15/2017 5:08pm
3/15/2017 5:08pm
taylor797 wrote:
Hi everyone, I have been researching carb options for my dad's 2003 CR250R as we haven't been able to get the stock TMX to run great...
Hi everyone,

I have been researching carb options for my dad's 2003 CR250R as we haven't been able to get the stock TMX to run great. We've had the bike for a few years and I found it to be jetted pretty well as I ride lots of wide open throttle, but now that my dad is riding it using more low end and mid range he finds it lacking.

We have settled on the 38MM PWK Air Striker from Keihin based on the reviews from the forum and I found Digger's recommendation for a Suzuki NEDW needle in #3 with a 42 pilot and 172 main. I am in Sault Ste Marie, ON Canada (~600 ft elevation), do you guys think this would be a good starting point for jetting?

Thanks in advance!
The info, NEDW,42,172, will work great in a pretty wide temp range. Like anyone else's spec,a combination of all 3 may need to be changed depending on the weather. That NEDW needle will be able to be run from the upper 50's into the 90's depending on the clip position. In the warmer weather you can get away with using it's 1/2 clip leaner brother, an NECW. JD doesn't sell his needle's in 1/2 clip variants. In the cooler weather,55f and below,you will probably want to use an NEDG needle. With that said JD does have an a pretty good needle profile for that bike. It's not my personal favorite, but it will get the job done.

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-16100-KZ3-J21.html

The stock jetting that comes in this carb will also work in your 03', but again not my favorite. Those Suzuki NExx series needles work, work very well for off road use. For straight MX I would probably suggest another jetting combo.

taylor797 3/15/2017 5:33pm
3/15/2017 5:33pm
digger wrote:
The info, NEDW,42,172, will work great in a pretty wide temp range. Like anyone else's spec,a combination of all 3 may need to be changed depending...
The info, NEDW,42,172, will work great in a pretty wide temp range. Like anyone else's spec,a combination of all 3 may need to be changed depending on the weather. That NEDW needle will be able to be run from the upper 50's into the 90's depending on the clip position. In the warmer weather you can get away with using it's 1/2 clip leaner brother, an NECW. JD doesn't sell his needle's in 1/2 clip variants. In the cooler weather,55f and below,you will probably want to use an NEDG needle. With that said JD does have an a pretty good needle profile for that bike. It's not my personal favorite, but it will get the job done.

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-16100-KZ3-J21.html

The stock jetting that comes in this carb will also work in your 03', but again not my favorite. Those Suzuki NExx series needles work, work very well for off road use. For straight MX I would probably suggest another jetting combo.

Thanks so much for posting, I have your jetting recommendation in my 2015 KTM 250sx (Suzuki NECJ needle) and it turned it into a totally different bike. My dad pretty much exclusively rides MX but isn't riding a ton of fast wide open stuff although he has been getting faster, do you think the NEDW, 42, 172 set up would be a good starting point for him? He finds he's looking for more low end and mid range power and just a cleaner running bike overall. Thanks again!
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Mx286 3/15/2017 6:04pm
3/15/2017 6:04pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Here are mine that he spruced up! :lol: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/03/15/181487/s1200_Screenshot_20170315_192021.jpg[/img]
Here are mine that he spruced up! Grinning



If you don't mind me asking how much did he charge for one carb? I swapped to the pwk on my 06 250, couldn't get the Mikuni set up the way I wanted it. Talked to PR2 and they said the Mikuni is excellent set up right, I just couldn't do it.
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digger 3/15/2017 6:19pm
3/15/2017 6:19pm
taylor797 wrote:
Thanks so much for posting, I have your jetting recommendation in my 2015 KTM 250sx (Suzuki NECJ needle) and it turned it into a totally different...
Thanks so much for posting, I have your jetting recommendation in my 2015 KTM 250sx (Suzuki NECJ needle) and it turned it into a totally different bike. My dad pretty much exclusively rides MX but isn't riding a ton of fast wide open stuff although he has been getting faster, do you think the NEDW, 42, 172 set up would be a good starting point for him? He finds he's looking for more low end and mid range power and just a cleaner running bike overall. Thanks again!
The NEDW setup will work fine for mx, but if your dad wants a little more lowend, but a the cost of a larger hit into middle, he can use a Yamaha duel taper N3EJ needle, for cooler weather he would need an N3EH. The 1/2 clip leaner version of these needles is an N3Cx. The Yamaha needles require a larger pilot 48, and main,178, because of the different needle profile, when compared to the Suzuki triple taper NExx needles. For cooler condition you will again need to richen the pilot and main.
MxKing809
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MxKing809 3/15/2017 6:23pm
3/15/2017 6:23pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2017 7:16pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Here are mine that he spruced up! :lol: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/03/15/181487/s1200_Screenshot_20170315_192021.jpg[/img]
Here are mine that he spruced up! Grinning



Mx286 wrote:
If you don't mind me asking how much did he charge for one carb? I swapped to the pwk on my 06 250, couldn't get the...
If you don't mind me asking how much did he charge for one carb? I swapped to the pwk on my 06 250, couldn't get the Mikuni set up the way I wanted it. Talked to PR2 and they said the Mikuni is excellent set up right, I just couldn't do it.
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets and labror on an average carb.

There is an unobtainable D shaped gasket that he is able to get with his HRC connections too.....
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doghouse 3/16/2017 5:39am
3/16/2017 5:39am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2017 6:04am
MxKing809 wrote:
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets...
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets and labror on an average carb.

There is an unobtainable D shaped gasket that he is able to get with his HRC connections too.....
Oh shit, he can get that gasket!?!?


I just went through a total ordeal, I wish I saw this five days ago.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/2003-CR250-No-Idle…
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MxKing809 3/16/2017 7:20pm
3/16/2017 7:20pm
MxKing809 wrote:
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets...
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets and labror on an average carb.

There is an unobtainable D shaped gasket that he is able to get with his HRC connections too.....
doghouse wrote:
Oh shit, he can get that gasket!?!?


I just went through a total ordeal, I wish I saw this five days ago.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/2003-CR250-No-Idle…
That SSSSSUCKS!

Yeah, give him a shout on that gasket
taylor797 3/16/2017 8:33pm
3/16/2017 8:33pm
digger wrote:
The NEDW setup will work fine for mx, but if your dad wants a little more lowend, but a the cost of a larger hit into...
The NEDW setup will work fine for mx, but if your dad wants a little more lowend, but a the cost of a larger hit into middle, he can use a Yamaha duel taper N3EJ needle, for cooler weather he would need an N3EH. The 1/2 clip leaner version of these needles is an N3Cx. The Yamaha needles require a larger pilot 48, and main,178, because of the different needle profile, when compared to the Suzuki triple taper NExx needles. For cooler condition you will again need to richen the pilot and main.
Thanks again for all your help, I ordered the PWK from Partzilla along with a NEDW needle and 42/172 jets. I was just wondering what you recommend as a starting point for the air screw?

Looking forward to getting it installed, I'll report back with the results!
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doghouse 3/17/2017 5:03am
3/17/2017 5:03am
MxKing809 wrote:
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets...
This bike was roached, so I had 200+ into parts per carb and was around $800 for both. I would guesstimate somewhere around 200/250 with gaskets and labror on an average carb.

There is an unobtainable D shaped gasket that he is able to get with his HRC connections too.....
doghouse wrote:
Oh shit, he can get that gasket!?!?


I just went through a total ordeal, I wish I saw this five days ago.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/2003-CR250-No-Idle…
MxKing809 wrote:
That SSSSSUCKS!

Yeah, give him a shout on that gasket
I thought for sure the thing was unobtanium. I'm probably going to send him my other carb now to have it massaged.

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digger
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digger 3/17/2017 5:10am
3/17/2017 5:10am
taylor797 wrote:
Thanks again for all your help, I ordered the PWK from Partzilla along with a NEDW needle and 42/172 jets. I was just wondering what you...
Thanks again for all your help, I ordered the PWK from Partzilla along with a NEDW needle and 42/172 jets. I was just wondering what you recommend as a starting point for the air screw?

Looking forward to getting it installed, I'll report back with the results!
I would start out at 1.5 turns out on the air screw.

Remember the jetting that you have listed above is going to be lean for this time of year in Canada. You will need a few more jets and the richer needle if you are planning to ride the bike now.
taylor797 3/17/2017 7:12am
3/17/2017 7:12am
digger wrote:
I would start out at 1.5 turns out on the air screw. Remember the jetting that you have listed above is going to be lean for...
I would start out at 1.5 turns out on the air screw.

Remember the jetting that you have listed above is going to be lean for this time of year in Canada. You will need a few more jets and the richer needle if you are planning to ride the bike now.
Perfect that's what I'll start with, and I'm tuning for warm summer weather just trying to get everything sorted out before riding. Thanks again!
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Keith72 3/19/2017 6:05pm
3/19/2017 6:05pm
Ran 42 pilot and 172 main today. 2003 cr250. Nebraska about 75-80 degrees. JD Blue needle clip 3rd down. Ran really well air screw 1.75 open. Going to order NEDW needle to try. Glad I found this thread. Very helpful. Thanks Digger.
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Keith72 4/1/2017 3:53pm
4/1/2017 3:53pm
Digger is on the money. 42 pilot 172 main NEDW needle 3rd clip. Temp about 55 degrees today. Best its ever been.
taylor797 4/2/2017 12:47pm
4/2/2017 12:47pm
Keith72 wrote:
Digger is on the money. 42 pilot 172 main NEDW needle 3rd clip. Temp about 55 degrees today. Best its ever been.
That's great to hear, I'll have mine in soon and I'll post back with the results.
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Keith72 4/2/2017 5:58pm
4/2/2017 5:58pm
Keith72 wrote:
Digger is on the money. 42 pilot 172 main NEDW needle 3rd clip. Temp about 55 degrees today. Best its ever been.
taylor797 wrote:
That's great to hear, I'll have mine in soon and I'll post back with the results.
I also picked up the NECW for when it gets hot this summer.
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cslacker 4/4/2017 10:55am
4/4/2017 10:55am
Keith72 wrote:
Digger is on the money. 42 pilot 172 main NEDW needle 3rd clip. Temp about 55 degrees today. Best its ever been.
taylor797 wrote:
That's great to hear, I'll have mine in soon and I'll post back with the results.
Keith72 wrote:
I also picked up the NECW for when it gets hot this summer.
I really like the NEDH and NECH for my 2003 cr250. The W always gave me a bit of a flat bottom end. The H diameter really woke it up for me. We are really talking about fine tuning here though and not night and day differences.
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Bramlett321 4/5/2017 8:18am
4/5/2017 8:18am
taylor797 wrote:
Hi everyone, I have been researching carb options for my dad's 2003 CR250R as we haven't been able to get the stock TMX to run great...
Hi everyone,

I have been researching carb options for my dad's 2003 CR250R as we haven't been able to get the stock TMX to run great. We've had the bike for a few years and I found it to be jetted pretty well as I ride lots of wide open throttle, but now that my dad is riding it using more low end and mid range he finds it lacking.

We have settled on the 38MM PWK Air Striker from Keihin based on the reviews from the forum and I found Digger's recommendation for a Suzuki NEDW needle in #3 with a 42 pilot and 172 main. I am in Sault Ste Marie, ON Canada (~600 ft elevation), do you guys think this would be a good starting point for jetting?

Thanks in advance!
I have one that came off my '16 XC 300 with about 10 hours on it if you're interested. I also have the JD Jetting kit and that Suzuki needle that you mentioned.
taylor797 4/14/2017 6:21am
4/14/2017 6:21am
Hey guys I put the carb in with the 42 pilot, 172 main and NEDW on the 3rd clip position and my dad took it out to the track yesterday, it was 55 degrees. It was running very lean with a white plug and getting really hot after a lap. I had a 180 main from my KTM so we tried that and it helped for sure but still had to drop the clip position to the max to get it to run reasonably.

Any ideas? It sounds like something must be off since Digger's jetting has so many great reviews.

Thanks again!
mxracer106 11/13/2017 11:23am
11/13/2017 11:23am
taylor797 wrote:
Hey guys I put the carb in with the 42 pilot, 172 main and NEDW on the 3rd clip position and my dad took it out...
Hey guys I put the carb in with the 42 pilot, 172 main and NEDW on the 3rd clip position and my dad took it out to the track yesterday, it was 55 degrees. It was running very lean with a white plug and getting really hot after a lap. I had a 180 main from my KTM so we tried that and it helped for sure but still had to drop the clip position to the max to get it to run reasonably.

Any ideas? It sounds like something must be off since Digger's jetting has so many great reviews.

Thanks again!
Hey Taylor....came across this thread and wondering what you ended up doing with you Dad's carb? Did you try another needle and get it figured out? I also have a 2003 CR250 with a 38mm airstriker that I am having a hard time getting dialed in. I also have a 42 pilot, 172 main, and the blue needle from JD jetting (no idea what it is, as it doesn't have any letters on it) and I have to run the clip position #1, and have the air screw 2.5-3 turns out to keep it from being rich and blubbering on bottom end. I am at 850 ft of altitude in Indiana, and ride between 50-80 degrees. It also have a #7 slide. Was hoping you some feedback before I buy a NEDW and NEDG needle off of ebay.
Honda Man 66 11/13/2017 4:01pm
11/13/2017 4:01pm
I had similar carb issues with my 2004 CR250R. I checked for bad fuel, wrong jetting and chipped reeds. Everything checked out. I replaced the stock carb with a Lectron carb. I can't believe how well it runs. It is so crisp off the bottom. This has to be what a fuel injected 2-stroke will run like. I have nevet ridden a bike that carburates this well. I highly recommend the Lectron carb.





mxracer106 11/15/2017 11:51am
11/15/2017 11:51am
Honda Man.....thank you for your input on the option of the Lectron carb on my '03 CR250. I have heard a lot of good things about them, and it sounds like you are a living testimonial! I am hoping I can get this PWK Airstriker figured out, as I don't have in my budget the $$$ for a new carb. I bought this bike used, and it ran horribly when I first got it...was super rich and loading up while riding it, so I first started with changing main jet, pilot and needle clip position...which made an improvement. I even put my brand new JD Jetting 38mm air striker off of my '86 CR250 on it (which ran perfect on that bike) and it still was running fat from 1/4-3/4 throttle. I did finally tear more into it, and discovered that it had a chuck broken out of one of the reed pedals, so I was sure that was my whole issue. I replaced the reeds, and it did improve the situation, but it did not make it perfect. This week, I decided to take the "torque spacer" off and bolt the VForce reeds direct to the intake....and I think I now have this 95% solved. It made a big difference taking it off, which is contrary to what I have read about them and how they do not effect the jetting. It is cold here now, so I will probably have to put this on hold until winter, but the new reeds, taking the torque spacer off, and leaning out the jets and moving the clip to the #1 position on the needle have made a big advancement.

Broken reed...


New reeds!


Torque spacer before removal....not sold on them at all!!




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