2002 Honda CR 250 who to have do Engine work?

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4/24/2018 12:34 PM

Guys have a 2002 Honda CR 250 and I had a Eric Gorr ported and modded head and it did give the bike more low end, but to be honest I was a little disappointed, so I’m starting over. I have a new Cylinder and head. I’ve had the crank balanced by crankworks . I had the Carb modded by Chad Watts and was planning on using him to do whole engine, but have changed my mind.
Varner seems like a good choice interested in hearing guys experiences and who they like and who has a good grasp on these case reed Honda’s.
Anyone used TMR?
My bike is a real low hour unit I bought it new, so what’s everyone’s opinion on having the whole engine blueprinted? Waste of money or best way to go? Please anyone that has a case reed Honda and had work done chime in glad to hear everyone’s experiences and who they liked and why. Thanks Guys!

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4/24/2018 5:17 PM

Varner motorsports, Terry does great work with honda two strokes

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4/26/2018 12:05 AM

I had TMR do my 02. Haven’t gotten to ride it yet but the work looked nice and he was great to deal with.

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4/26/2018 12:58 AM

omalley wrote:

I had TMR do my 02. Haven’t gotten to ride it yet but the work looked nice and he was great to deal with.

Please Let me know your ride report. Tom is a very nice guy and easy to deal with. Very curious how your bike performs.

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4/26/2018 1:54 AM

omalley wrote:

I had TMR do my 02. Haven’t gotten to ride it yet but the work looked nice and he was great to deal with.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Please Let me know your ride report. Tom is a very nice guy and easy to deal with. Very curious how your bike performs.

Will do. If work would quit getting in the way, lol...

And yes, Tom was great. One of the nicest people I’ve had the pleasure of working with. It also became readily apparent that he knows a ton about engines.

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4/26/2018 6:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/26/2018 6:53 AM

Hey Joe - my #1 choice is PC cyl. / head mods that are very affordable by today's standards at around $350..
They have done the the R&D on this engine & have excellent porting specs to wake this engine up.
Varner is not a bad choice as well as discussed before he has also done some dyno testing on this engine.

It's to bad your not close by otherwise I'd let you do a test ride on the 03 CR2. It's impressive to say the least the amount of power PC can coax out of the engine. It can run with a modern stock 450.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

4/26/2018 9:12 AM

H4L wrote:

Hey Joe - my #1 choice is PC cyl. / head mods that are very affordable by today's standards at around $350..
They have done the the R&D on this engine & have excellent porting specs to wake this engine up.
Varner is not a bad choice as well as discussed before he has also done some dyno testing on this engine.

It's to bad your not close by otherwise I'd let you do a test ride on the 03 CR2. It's impressive to say the least the amount of power PC can coax out of the engine. It can run with a modern stock 450.

Hi Ray,

Yeah Me and you have talked quite a bit about this and I’d love to have Mitch Payton port my bike, but what I struggle with is who is doing the work at PC? You know what I mean? I’d like to know I have an experienced hand working on my bike. I was hoping I’d have a great response to this thread and get a bunch of peoples experiences on different engine tuners. I know you Love your PC stuff not ruling them out at all! Thanks for all your help brother!

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4/26/2018 9:36 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/26/2018 4:24 PM

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Hi Ray,

Yeah Me and you have talked quite a bit about this and I’d love to have Mitch Payton port my bike, but what I struggle with is who is doing the work at PC? You know what I mean? I’d like to know I have an experienced hand working on my bike. I was hoping I’d have a great response to this thread and get a bunch of peoples experiences on different engine tuners. I know you Love your PC stuff not ruling them out at all! Thanks for all your help brother!

Joe - I know what you mean.. Below is a link to a members thread who recently had his 02 cyl. / head done by PC a couple of months ago. I actually sold him the 02 cyl. & sent it to PC to have it done. I'd suggest reaching out to him & get his feedback since he has had some recent work done by them. I've had a few conversations with him & he's a kool dude that is willing to share his knowledge. I think he's some how connected to a Pro team & knows his stuff.
The only thing I'd recommend would be to use an HGS pipe instead of the PC. The HGS is suppose to be a close copy to the Doma that provided a wide broad powerband combined with the engine mods..

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Bike-Builds,46/06-MC-CR250,1327625

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

4/26/2018 4:50 PM

Do you still have the EG cyl and head? I would like to see what he did to it? I modded my personal 02' back in the day with the following mods, had great low-mid and top.

lower cyl .030" transfers are too high
recess the head that same .030" to make sure your squish is right, (should be around 1.25mm when done this way)
raise exh port 1.5mm to get the blowdown timing better back in line bc the transfers were dropped.
drop the corners of the exh port down and widen by a few mm.
Good reed block and pipe set like a Bills or PC.
knife edge the transfer dividers, epoxy in the back two rear boost ports so the port appose each other.

Should be a rippah

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4/26/2018 5:12 PM

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

Do you still have the EG cyl and head? I would like to see what he did to it? I modded my personal 02' back in the day with the following mods, had great low-mid and top.

lower cyl .030" transfers are too high
recess the head that same .030" to make sure your squish is right, (should be around 1.25mm when done this way)
raise exh port 1.5mm to get the blowdown timing better back in line bc the transfers were dropped.
drop the corners of the exh port down and widen by a few mm.
Good reed block and pipe set like a Bills or PC.
knife edge the transfer dividers, epoxy in the back two rear boost ports so the port appose each other.

Should be a rippah

No I sold it. He did cut .030 off base of cylinder. Did you cut your head for race gas or pump? Mine was just pump. Maybe it would have been better bumped up to race fuel?

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4/26/2018 8:14 PM

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Guys have a 2002 Honda CR 250 and I had a Eric Gorr ported and modded head and it did give the bike more low end, but to be honest I was a little disappointed, so I’m starting over. I have a new Cylinder and head. I’ve had the crank balanced by crankworks . I had the Carb modded by Chad Watts and was planning on using him to do whole engine, but have changed my mind.
Varner seems like a good choice interested in hearing guys experiences and who they like and who has a good grasp on these case reed Honda’s.
Anyone used TMR?
My bike is a real low hour unit I bought it new, so what’s everyone’s opinion on having the whole engine blueprinted? Waste of money or best way to go? Please anyone that has a case reed Honda and had work done chime in glad to hear everyone’s experiences and who they liked and why. Thanks Guys!

Why did you change your mind on Chad Watts? I’ve heard his mods worked really good?

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4/27/2018 2:48 AM

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Guys have a 2002 Honda CR 250 and I had a Eric Gorr ported and modded head and it did give the bike more low end, but to be honest I was a little disappointed, so I’m starting over. I have a new Cylinder and head. I’ve had the crank balanced by crankworks . I had the Carb modded by Chad Watts and was planning on using him to do whole engine, but have changed my mind.
Varner seems like a good choice interested in hearing guys experiences and who they like and who has a good grasp on these case reed Honda’s.
Anyone used TMR?
My bike is a real low hour unit I bought it new, so what’s everyone’s opinion on having the whole engine blueprinted? Waste of money or best way to go? Please anyone that has a case reed Honda and had work done chime in glad to hear everyone’s experiences and who they liked and why. Thanks Guys!

Joko wrote:

Why did you change your mind on Chad Watts? I’ve heard his mods worked really good?

I’m not going to go into detail with it other than say I saw some red flags for me. He’s hard to get a hold of for one and our communication wasn’t the best.

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4/27/2018 5:26 AM

@new to -4s-Joe I just recessed mine and ran 95 e-free octane and it didnt detonate. It looks like formthe pics of that post where the PC cyl was modded did the same thing, although we have no idea how low PC went, they 100% took something off the cyl base and recessed the head, I can see it.

As for the tuners out there, there are many, TMR would be a good choice, I have seen his work in my hands and it looks real good.

J

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4/27/2018 4:13 PM

I was originally going to go with PC. However, I found the rumors of who actually does the porting to be a red flag. In addition, my conversation with them was not bad, but hardly confidence-inspiring (it honestly did not seem like they gave a shit about working on an older 2-stroke). By contrast, Tom remembered everything about the bike and its quirks like it was yesterday. He was happy to discuss tuning, what I was looking to do, what fuels would work, and a ton of other info.
I have no doubt that Mitch is a genius when it comes to engines. That said, most of my experience with them has revealed a “we’re PC, you should bow to our greatness” vibe. No thanks.

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4/27/2018 6:24 PM

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

@new to -4s-Joe I just recessed mine and ran 95 e-free octane and it didnt detonate. It looks like formthe pics of that post where the PC cyl was modded did the same thing, although we have no idea how low PC went, they 100% took something off the cyl base and recessed the head, I can see it.

As for the tuners out there, there are many, TMR would be a good choice, I have seen his work in my hands and it looks real good.

J

Thanks JBoneMotoworks I've used Tom before and he did do great work for me on my 1999 Yamaha YZ 125 he built me. Right after he did it the Wiseco Piston Ring pin worked out. He said that was a one in a million and backed it no problem.I would like to use him again to be honest, but just have not seen any reviews of his work on my model bike.

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4/27/2018 6:28 PM

omalley wrote:

I was originally going to go with PC. However, I found the rumors of who actually does the porting to be a red flag. In addition, my conversation with them was not bad, but hardly confidence-inspiring (it honestly did not seem like they gave a shit about working on an older 2-stroke). By contrast, Tom remembered everything about the bike and its quirks like it was yesterday. He was happy to discuss tuning, what I was looking to do, what fuels would work, and a ton of other info.
I have no doubt that Mitch is a genius when it comes to engines. That said, most of my experience with them has revealed a “we’re PC, you should bow to our greatness” vibe. No thanks.

I'm not surprised in what your saying at all. They are still an option because my friend Ray has used them and was very happy with the results. I don't know much about Varner other than Blackdiamonds review of his work which was awesome. Can't wait to hear your ride report!

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4/28/2018 5:33 AM

I had TMR do my 96 CR 250, stand up guy...great communication & quality work. Sounds like JBoneMotorworks knows what mods this engine needs.....

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4/28/2018 8:38 AM

I deck mine just a bit more than has been said here already and stagger the intake timing by raising the front transfers as well as the exhaust to increase blow down. I set the final squish at .045"

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4/28/2018 9:49 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/28/2018 9:50 AM

There ya go @slipdog! A staggered port duration will help spread out the powerband a hair, if you raise the exh port 1.5mm and drop the outer edges it will rev real clean too. Thx for posting!

Thank you @sandman

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4/28/2018 11:40 AM

In 05-06 when I had the PC mods done I don't recall them shaving the cyl.. After talking to the member who recently had it done it appears they shave the base. Don't know if that was part of the mods back then, but think it's only .010" though.

I did ask the main guy in the engine dept. at that time what spec they set the squish. He told me it was around 040". PC provides a spark plug spacer for 05-07 models after mods.. Probably because a combination of the dome piston height & tight squishband.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

4/28/2018 9:36 PM

always wondering why shaving cutting the cylinder and head off a 02-04 or 05-07.

i ride on my 07 with a squish around 2.4mm (original head is 1.3mm i think and a base gasket of 1.1mm)
carb got a cr250 2001 needle 6BEH1-72 Optinial needle is the 6BEH2-xx
DPR exhaust for LOW to high (you can rev the shit outta it,better then any pipe what i tried)
front the 13 sprocket(always keep the front original)
rear depends on the track 51 sprocket or a 50 sprocket.
102 octane
motul oil.

one kick and it runs, no matter what the weather conditions are. It have enuff low end to lift the front tire high exciting every corner.
it runs in second gear further with a 51 sprocket and a dpr pipe then with a 49 sprocket and a pro circuit -hgs-fmf or original pipe.

and a i tried every base gasket ( .3-.4-.6-.8 and .8 & .3 together) 1.1mm the best for my bike.

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4/29/2018 8:05 AM

r18b wrote:

always wondering why shaving cutting the cylinder and head off a 02-04 or 05-07.

i ride on my 07 with a squish around 2.4mm (original head is 1.3mm i think and a base gasket of 1.1mm)
carb got a cr250 2001 needle 6BEH1-72 Optinial needle is the 6BEH2-xx
DPR exhaust for LOW to high (you can rev the shit outta it,better then any pipe what i tried)
front the 13 sprocket(always keep the front original)
rear depends on the track 51 sprocket or a 50 sprocket.
102 octane
motul oil.

one kick and it runs, no matter what the weather conditions are. It have enuff low end to lift the front tire high exciting every corner.
it runs in second gear further with a 51 sprocket and a dpr pipe then with a 49 sprocket and a pro circuit -hgs-fmf or original pipe.

and a i tried every base gasket ( .3-.4-.6-.8 and .8 & .3 together) 1.1mm the best for my bike.

Hello r18b I have not heard or a DPR pipe? Do they sell them here in the USA? We could have a whole thread on Pipes here. I’ve found OEM Honda to be hard to beat for overall power.

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4/29/2018 9:03 AM

r18b wrote:

always wondering why shaving cutting the cylinder and head off a 02-04 or 05-07.

i ride on my 07 with a squish around 2.4mm (original head is 1.3mm i think and a base gasket of 1.1mm)
carb got a cr250 2001 needle 6BEH1-72 Optinial needle is the 6BEH2-xx
DPR exhaust for LOW to high (you can rev the shit outta it,better then any pipe what i tried)
front the 13 sprocket(always keep the front original)
rear depends on the track 51 sprocket or a 50 sprocket.
102 octane
motul oil.

one kick and it runs, no matter what the weather conditions are. It have enuff low end to lift the front tire high exciting every corner.
it runs in second gear further with a 51 sprocket and a dpr pipe then with a 49 sprocket and a pro circuit -hgs-fmf or original pipe.

and a i tried every base gasket ( .3-.4-.6-.8 and .8 & .3 together) 1.1mm the best for my bike.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Hello r18b I have not heard or a DPR pipe? Do they sell them here in the USA? We could have a whole thread on Pipes here. I’ve found OEM Honda to be hard to beat for overall power.

They can be send to the usa. No problem. Tis is a pipe that will beat every other pipe on overall power.

DPR 05-07

Photo

Dpr 02-04

Photo

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4/29/2018 10:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/4/2018 6:28 AM

r18b - Thnxz for posting. Never heard of a DRP pipe before here in the US. Interesting to hear your running 1.1mm (combined .3 +.8) base gasket. The 05-07 oem is .010" which would be closer to a .26 mm. In your case your raising the port timing & doing the opposite of what some engine tuners are doing in the US.

As you have found out it doesn't take much to get the 02-07 engine to sing. These bikes were severely underrated in the engine dept. when they 1st came out. Most of the lowend power issue stems from overly rich oem jetting specs..
Once you get the jetting dialed the rest is icing on the cake. The CR case reed engine responds really well to minor engine mods.. It can also be tuned for good HP #'s if that is what the individual is looking for.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

5/3/2018 8:35 PM

omalley wrote:

I had TMR do my 02. Haven’t gotten to ride it yet but the work looked nice and he was great to deal with.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Please Let me know your ride report. Tom is a very nice guy and easy to deal with. Very curious how your bike performs.

omalley wrote:

Will do. If work would quit getting in the way, lol...

And yes, Tom was great. One of the nicest people I’ve had the pleasure of working with. It also became readily apparent that he knows a ton about engines.

omalley- Have you had a chance to ride your bike yet? What all did you have Tom do to your bike was it a full blueprint or just cylinder and head porting? Did he modify your Carburetor?

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5/3/2018 9:28 PM

omalley wrote:

I had TMR do my 02. Haven’t gotten to ride it yet but the work looked nice and he was great to deal with.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Please Let me know your ride report. Tom is a very nice guy and easy to deal with. Very curious how your bike performs.

So, I finally got to ride it today. My disclaimer is that this was a fairly tight SX/AX style track, so I never got to really stretch the bike’s legs.
Impressions:

This thing is a rocket! Much bigger midrange surge. Bottom end was slightly better than stock, as a quick tug on the clutch was all it took if I let the revs get too low. The biggest complement I can pay is this. I went down one tooth (back to stock) after my first ride on the build (before sending the cylinder and head off). Even with the taller gearing, I felt like I was very close to pulling a full taller gear in most situations. Top end felt better than stock, but again I really didn’t get a chance to run it out hard on top on this track.

I cannot emphasize enough the wallop this thing packs in the middle. It’s fast.

I also switched back to the Mikuni at Tom’s recommendation. So far I have had none of the issues that I’ve had with a stock head running that carb. Jetting was Tom’s recommended settings, slightly fattened for break-in.

The throttle response is really good as well.

I had him cut the head for VP110 (I’m too much of a tightwad to run C12 at almost double the price).

I am very happy with the work, and as I said in a prior post, Tom was an absolute pleasure to work with.

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5/4/2018 12:00 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/4/2018 12:02 AM

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Please Let me know your ride report. Tom is a very nice guy and easy to deal with. Very curious how your bike performs.

omalley wrote:

Will do. If work would quit getting in the way, lol...

And yes, Tom was great. One of the nicest people I’ve had the pleasure of working with. It also became readily apparent that he knows a ton about engines.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

omalley- Have you had a chance to ride your bike yet? What all did you have Tom do to your bike was it a full blueprint or just cylinder and head porting? Did he modify your Carburetor?

Sorry just saw this post. I had him do the cylinder and head. I’m going to have him do the cases this winter, I didn’t want to pull it back apart after 2 rides...

He cut the base, modified the head for VP110, and it looked like he did some work in the transfers and exhaust. I am guessing he’ll do some work to the intake when he gets the cases. He said that most of the gains in the cases comes in the form of better part-throttle response and torque. He also said that the PC pipe and silencer I’m running narrows the power a little vs FMF, so I may try their pipe/silencer as well. Carb is a stock Mikuni TMX with his jetting specs. The only change I had to make was to use a leaner needle jet (vs the needle itself) since the leaner needle isn’t available anymore.

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5/4/2018 1:38 PM

omalley wrote:

Will do. If work would quit getting in the way, lol...

And yes, Tom was great. One of the nicest people I’ve had the pleasure of working with. It also became readily apparent that he knows a ton about engines.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

omalley- Have you had a chance to ride your bike yet? What all did you have Tom do to your bike was it a full blueprint or just cylinder and head porting? Did he modify your Carburetor?

omalley wrote:

Sorry just saw this post. I had him do the cylinder and head. I’m going to have him do the cases this winter, I didn’t want to pull it back apart after 2 rides...

He cut the base, modified the head for VP110, and it looked like he did some work in the transfers and exhaust. I am guessing he’ll do some work to the intake when he gets the cases. He said that most of the gains in the cases comes in the form of better part-throttle response and torque. He also said that the PC pipe and silencer I’m running narrows the power a little vs FMF, so I may try their pipe/silencer as well. Carb is a stock Mikuni TMX with his jetting specs. The only change I had to make was to use a leaner needle jet (vs the needle itself) since the leaner needle isn’t available anymore.

omalley- thanks for the ride report! You got anymore wide open riding you plan on doing to give more feedback on for us? I'm really surprised there isn't more TMR equipped bikes out there for guys to give feedback on?

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5/4/2018 1:41 PM

r18b wrote:

always wondering why shaving cutting the cylinder and head off a 02-04 or 05-07.

i ride on my 07 with a squish around 2.4mm (original head is 1.3mm i think and a base gasket of 1.1mm)
carb got a cr250 2001 needle 6BEH1-72 Optinial needle is the 6BEH2-xx
DPR exhaust for LOW to high (you can rev the shit outta it,better then any pipe what i tried)
front the 13 sprocket(always keep the front original)
rear depends on the track 51 sprocket or a 50 sprocket.
102 octane
motul oil.

one kick and it runs, no matter what the weather conditions are. It have enuff low end to lift the front tire high exciting every corner.
it runs in second gear further with a 51 sprocket and a dpr pipe then with a 49 sprocket and a pro circuit -hgs-fmf or original pipe.

and a i tried every base gasket ( .3-.4-.6-.8 and .8 & .3 together) 1.1mm the best for my bike.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

Hello r18b I have not heard or a DPR pipe? Do they sell them here in the USA? We could have a whole thread on Pipes here. I’ve found OEM Honda to be hard to beat for overall power.

r18b wrote:

They can be send to the usa. No problem. Tis is a pipe that will beat every other pipe on overall power.

DPR 05-07

Photo

Dpr 02-04

Photo

r18b- Did you get a chance to ride your bike with the DPR pipe in stock trim? Curious if you noticed any power difference on the stock bike and how it changed the power. Those pipes are really nice looking!

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5/4/2018 4:53 PM

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

omalley- Have you had a chance to ride your bike yet? What all did you have Tom do to your bike was it a full blueprint or just cylinder and head porting? Did he modify your Carburetor?

omalley wrote:

Sorry just saw this post. I had him do the cylinder and head. I’m going to have him do the cases this winter, I didn’t want to pull it back apart after 2 rides...

He cut the base, modified the head for VP110, and it looked like he did some work in the transfers and exhaust. I am guessing he’ll do some work to the intake when he gets the cases. He said that most of the gains in the cases comes in the form of better part-throttle response and torque. He also said that the PC pipe and silencer I’m running narrows the power a little vs FMF, so I may try their pipe/silencer as well. Carb is a stock Mikuni TMX with his jetting specs. The only change I had to make was to use a leaner needle jet (vs the needle itself) since the leaner needle isn’t available anymore.

New to -4S-Joe wrote:

omalley- thanks for the ride report! You got anymore wide open riding you plan on doing to give more feedback on for us? I'm really surprised there isn't more TMR equipped bikes out there for guys to give feedback on?

No problem-hopefully next weekend I’ll have a report on a faster track. Didn’t have time to get there this week. I’ll update when I do.
I think a lot of guys flock to PC, Varner, or Gorr because they are all pretty high profile. Tom gets a lot of work but you just don’t hear his name out there much.

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