17-18 TC/SX 250 Pipe Comparisons

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12/12/2017 10:58 AM

After a few rides on my 17 TC 250, I want to make the power more usable (vet intermediate MX skill level by the way.)
To me it feels like the bike hits hard, a little late, but then it's just done..... and that's even after being on a 125 for the past season I'm hoping to trade some of that mid hit to get it on the pipe earlier and smoother, and ideally get some more over-rev. I already went to a 49T rear to get longer pull.

From reviews it looks like PC and FMF both build power a little lower so that the hit isn't as pronounced, I was just wondering if anyone could share their observations of either pipe? I don't want to go full-on trail with the Gnarly because I still want top end.

Also... has anyone tried the green powervalve spring? I know it only makes a difference above 5500 RPM, so it isn't going to give me what I want, but I'm thinking a longer powervalve opening window may make that upper power more usable? I've been playing with the yellow one in a few different spots, currently I'm at about three turns in.

Oh... and I don't like flywheel weights, and I tried the mellow map but I felt like it took away too much bottom end. So really just looking for thoughts on pipes? Thanks!

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12/12/2017 11:02 AM

I haven't done comparisons to PC or FMF but I'm using a Bud Racing HGS pipe/silencer and the green spring. Before I went to the green spring, I was wheelieing too much out of turns constantly.

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12/12/2017 11:15 AM

seth505 wrote:

I haven't done comparisons to PC or FMF but I'm using a Bud Racing HGS pipe/silencer and the green spring. Before I went to the green spring, I was wheelieing too much out of turns constantly.

Thanks for the reply - did the BUD system give it more bottom?

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12/12/2017 11:30 AM

mark_swart wrote:

Thanks for the reply - did the BUD system give it more bottom?

Honestly, I'm not so sure it did. It definitely didn't get worse but I was looking for some more top end pull which it did do.

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12/12/2017 11:33 AM

vet intermediate, I run a 304 silencer (not the r304), I can state without a doubt the 304 helped over rev dramatically!! Good for a good extra 30-40 feet, difference between having to shift or not....highly recommend it.
Thinking of going to 49 tooth, can you expand on how it helped tame the hit? I generally don't use 2nd gear, even on sand tracks, tend to use 3rd and 4th.

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12/12/2017 12:14 PM

I’m a vet c/b rider with 17 tc250. Stock except red spring 2 turns in. Really helped lo-mid punch I wanted for tight arenacross style track

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12/12/2017 12:45 PM

I am getting a pipe & silencer for my 18 TC250. Leaning to PC Factory & 304 silencer.

This is a good read. Some info on the PC pipe.

https://motocrossactionmag.com/build-husqvarna-tc250-two-stroke/

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A big thanks goes out to Donnie at Morgantown Powersports and RJ at Beaver Creek Cycles

12/12/2017 1:05 PM

On my '18 SX250 I backed the power valve adjuster all the way out and then turned it back in 3/4 turn with the stock spring and it made a huge improvement. In another thread there was a guy that said the PC stuff wasn't worth the money on his '18 TC250.

http://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/18-TC250-updates,1330247

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

12/12/2017 1:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/12/2017 1:32 PM

First tipover and the pc pipe crumbles. Yup on the red spring 1 1/2 to 2 turns in from flush

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12/12/2017 2:51 PM

I wish shops woukd just post dyno charts so we could see what their pipes actually change....

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12/12/2017 2:52 PM

AJ565 wrote:

On my '18 SX250 I backed the power valve adjuster all the way out and then turned it back in 3/4 turn with the stock spring and it made a huge improvement. In another thread there was a guy that said the PC stuff wasn't worth the money on his '18 TC250.

http://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/18-TC250-updates,1330247

When you say improvement, what do you mean? That change should have given it more hit right in the middle, is that what you wanted?

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12/12/2017 2:55 PM

Whymee wrote:

I am getting a pipe & silencer for my 18 TC250. Leaning to PC Factory & 304 silencer.

This is a good read. Some info on the PC pipe.

https://motocrossactionmag.com/build-husqvarna-tc250-two-stroke/

I saw that one too. They also did one on FMF. By the looks of it, the PC is really only adding mid to top. The FMF is supposed to add some bottom and some top. I was just curious for feedback from anyone who had actually spent the $$!

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12/12/2017 2:58 PM

opyguy wrote:

vet intermediate, I run a 304 silencer (not the r304), I can state without a doubt the 304 helped over rev dramatically!! Good for a good extra 30-40 feet, difference between having to shift or not....highly recommend it.
Thinking of going to 49 tooth, can you expand on how it helped tame the hit? I generally don't use 2nd gear, even on sand tracks, tend to use 3rd and 4th.

The 49 gives a little longer pull, but it also makes the hit just a little less abrupt, although it delays it a bit as well. My goal is really to get about 2000 more rpm of usable power. I dont expect it to be like a four stroke, but there's no reason a 250 should have to be shifted as much as the 125 I have been racing all season.

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12/12/2017 3:12 PM

AJ565 wrote:

On my '18 SX250 I backed the power valve adjuster all the way out and then turned it back in 3/4 turn with the stock spring and it made a huge improvement. In another thread there was a guy that said the PC stuff wasn't worth the money on his '18 TC250.

http://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/18-TC250-updates,1330247

mark_swart wrote:

When you say improvement, what do you mean? That change should have given it more hit right in the middle, is that what you wanted?

It made it more rideable. It seemed to hit hard low to mid and with stock gearing it was 3rd gear through corners and then trying to keep the front end down pretty much everywhere. I mean everywhere too, like on the face of jumps and such. The setting I went to was what MXA recommended so I gave that a try and it was way more fun to ride hard. I don't know if someone was messing with my bike before I bough it, but the PV adjuster was almost 3.5 turns in. I forgot to add that I dropped to a 49t sprocket as well.

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

12/12/2017 4:08 PM

Try the 49 rear sprocket, back powervalve spring out some & richer main jet....I have fmf fatty with fmf standard powercore silencer....the hit is smoothed out & overev increased....the 49 rear sprocket works good on hard to intermediate dirt, I"m leaning towards going back to stock 50 for the sand, so I can pull 3 & 4th easier. I"ve had 3 Xc 300"s and my 18 250 sx, I have tried all the different colored powervalve springs & always end up with the stock spring, sometimes more options equals more chances to get lost in your settings..

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12/12/2017 4:46 PM

AJ565 wrote:

On my '18 SX250 I backed the power valve adjuster all the way out and then turned it back in 3/4 turn with the stock spring and it made a huge improvement. In another thread there was a guy that said the PC stuff wasn't worth the money on his '18 TC250.

http://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/18-TC250-updates,1330247

mark_swart wrote:

When you say improvement, what do you mean? That change should have given it more hit right in the middle, is that what you wanted?

AJ565 wrote:

It made it more rideable. It seemed to hit hard low to mid and with stock gearing it was 3rd gear through corners and then trying to keep the front end down pretty much everywhere. I mean everywhere too, like on the face of jumps and such. The setting I went to was what MXA recommended so I gave that a try and it was way more fun to ride hard. I don't know if someone was messing with my bike before I bough it, but the PV adjuster was almost 3.5 turns in. I forgot to add that I dropped to a 49t sprocket as well.

My 17' tc250 also came from the dealer with the PV adjuster at 3.5 turns in, think that is the setting from the factory. I backed it out one full turn at 2.5 turns in per MXA's recommendation and like it.

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12/12/2017 5:39 PM

mark_swart wrote:

After a few rides on my 17 TC 250, I want to make the power more usable (vet intermediate MX skill level by the way.)
To me it feels like the bike hits hard, a little late, but then it's just done..... and that's even after being on a 125 for the past season I'm hoping to trade some of that mid hit to get it on the pipe earlier and smoother, and ideally get some more over-rev. I already went to a 49T rear to get longer pull.

From reviews it looks like PC and FMF both build power a little lower so that the hit isn't as pronounced, I was just wondering if anyone could share their observations of either pipe? I don't want to go full-on trail with the Gnarly because I still want top end.

Also... has anyone tried the green powervalve spring? I know it only makes a difference above 5500 RPM, so it isn't going to give me what I want, but I'm thinking a longer powervalve opening window may make that upper power more usable? I've been playing with the yellow one in a few different spots, currently I'm at about three turns in.

Oh... and I don't like flywheel weights, and I tried the mellow map but I felt like it took away too much bottom end. So really just looking for thoughts on pipes? Thanks!

Welcome to reality!!!
This bike hits hard, no matter what
17 TC 250, Vet C 50 y/o.
Went 49 on the rear sprocket, not much diff.
Played with pipes/silencer and settled on FMF HVA Fatty + Powercore 2.1 Ti (bazooka- 4stroke look!)
The pipe lessened the hit (OEM hits hard) and the broaden power delivery was noticeable.

I tried a PC silencer (regular 304) and like Opyguy can attest it helped over rev.
but the fit was total junk and l have it on a shelf now.

Constant tinkering with jetting on the TMX had me finally pulling the plug on a Keihin.
Best $ spent by far. The clean and consistent jetting actually smoothed the hit and really helped the low/mid transition
The TMX had a rich/lean not so clean feel that I could not get eradicate.

I think fast/skilled riders don't notice it because they're a lot more on the pipe, away from that hit point, always keeping momentum.

Added FWW - running "mellow" (?) map (could not really tell diff with the other one)
Played a lot with PV springs/pre-load
Red at ~ 1.5/2 in very responsive from low to mid but I found it sketchy on slippery soil
Yellow at ~ 2.5 turns in feels quite good
Just tried today the Green one at 2.5 and it was almost a toss compared to the Yellow

This is a very potent engine, and a bit of a handful for me at time.
I went away from 450's due to their "too much" nature but now that the engine runs real good I'm finding myself in trouble as the damn thing wants to bite me...
But I still think it's a fun bike and by far one of the best I owned, Just need to ride more and hit the gym more often





Photo

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12/12/2017 8:25 PM

Before you buy a pipe, I'd sort the jetting out. Once you sort out the jetting, the bike is much smoother on the low to mid transition. I have a thread going on TC250 Jetting. I'm almost there and it gets better every week. I dropped to the 49T rear sprocket and as the jetting gets cleaned up, it feels like it has more bottom end than it did than with the 50T sprocket. Still wheelies out of corners in 2nd with no clutch. I'm at 2.5 out turns from all the way out on the PV, stock spring. I picked up a 6.0 slide and I have a 42-75 needle and S-4 needle jet, which is supposed to be the final answer but, here is what I am currently at and most people wouldn't know there is a jetting issue.

5.0 slide
44-73 needle in 3rd clip position (comes with stock kit)
S-1 needle jet (stock)
450 main (comes with stock kit)
30 pilot

This is for 75-85 degrees
500ft above sea level
15%ish humidity

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12/12/2017 8:37 PM

Scull79 wrote:

My 17' tc250 also came from the dealer with the PV adjuster at 3.5 turns in, think that is the setting from the factory. I backed it out one full turn at 2.5 turns in per MXA's recommendation and like it.

Hmm, maybe I read MXA wrong with only 1 turn in and not 1 turn out from factory. Next time I go out I’ll have to try 2.5 turns in and see how I like it.

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

12/12/2017 8:39 PM

I meant 2.5 turns in from all the way out.

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12/12/2017 8:47 PM

sdhuskyrider wrote:

Before you buy a pipe, I'd sort the jetting out. Once you sort out the jetting, the bike is much smoother on the low to mid transition. I have a thread going on TC250 Jetting. I'm almost there and it gets better every week. I dropped to the 49T rear sprocket and as the jetting gets cleaned up, it feels like it has more bottom end than it did than with the 50T sprocket. Still wheelies out of corners in 2nd with no clutch. I'm at 2.5 out turns from all the way out on the PV, stock spring. I picked up a 6.0 slide and I have a 42-75 needle and S-4 needle jet, which is supposed to be the final answer but, here is what I am currently at and most people wouldn't know there is a jetting issue.

5.0 slide
44-73 needle in 3rd clip position (comes with stock kit)
S-1 needle jet (stock)
450 main (comes with stock kit)
30 pilot

This is for 75-85 degrees
500ft above sea level
15%ish humidity

Interested to see how that 6.0 slide works out. I picked up a 5.75 slide so if it’s close, but not perfect I’ll try and find a 6.0 or have my stock one cut. Where did you find the 6.0 at?

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

12/12/2017 8:49 PM

sdhuskyrider wrote:

Before you buy a pipe, I'd sort the jetting out. Once you sort out the jetting, the bike is much smoother on the low to mid transition. I have a thread going on TC250 Jetting. I'm almost there and it gets better every week. I dropped to the 49T rear sprocket and as the jetting gets cleaned up, it feels like it has more bottom end than it did than with the 50T sprocket. Still wheelies out of corners in 2nd with no clutch. I'm at 2.5 out turns from all the way out on the PV, stock spring. I picked up a 6.0 slide and I have a 42-75 needle and S-4 needle jet, which is supposed to be the final answer but, here is what I am currently at and most people wouldn't know there is a jetting issue.

5.0 slide
44-73 needle in 3rd clip position (comes with stock kit)
S-1 needle jet (stock)
450 main (comes with stock kit)
30 pilot

This is for 75-85 degrees
500ft above sea level
15%ish humidity

AJ565 wrote:

Interested to see how that 6.0 slide works out. I picked up a 5.75 slide so if it’s close, but not perfect I’ll try and find a 6.0 or have my stock one cut. Where did you find the 6.0 at?

They are back in stock at Sudco.

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12/13/2017 1:20 AM

1 1/4 turns in from all the way out with the red spring is the setting I like the most. If I remember correctly the stock setting on my 2018 SX was 2.5 turns in and with this setting there was too much delay before the hit. I think it is actually easier to ride now because it pulls higher gears better and I don't have to use 2nd gear at all when riding on a mx track. Overrev was improved after I changed a bigger main jet, 450 in the summer and now 460. But I'll probably buy R304 to try to improve it a bit more.

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12/13/2017 4:28 AM

Biggest help for me on the low end was milling 0.020" off of the head and adding JD Jetting kit. Runs great from very low rpm until it signs off which is still a bit early. Jetting was also easy to get right and is very stable. I am able to run 93 octane without issue as well.

Have also tried 14/49, 14/50, 14/51 gearing. Going to try 14/48 gearing next as bike is too responsive with 14/50 and 14/51, and not long enough with 14/49. 14/51 is nice in that I can stay in 3rd gear almost everywhere. Still not quite right though.

Have the stock pipe/silencer on mine now, but recently bought a Pro Circuit setup in order to get some additional over-rev. Hope that doesn't turn out to be a waste. Will report back after testing.

A buddy has an FMF setup and his doesn't hit quite as hard and revs out a bit further than stock.

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12/13/2017 5:07 AM

Running PC pipe and R304 and love it. Not sure why people keep talking about how fragile they are. Mines been good.

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12/13/2017 8:23 AM

erik_94COBRA wrote:

Biggest help for me on the low end was milling 0.020" off of the head and adding JD Jetting kit. Runs great from very low rpm until it signs off which is still a bit early. Jetting was also easy to get right and is very stable. I am able to run 93 octane without issue as well.

Have also tried 14/49, 14/50, 14/51 gearing. Going to try 14/48 gearing next as bike is too responsive with 14/50 and 14/51, and not long enough with 14/49. 14/51 is nice in that I can stay in 3rd gear almost everywhere. Still not quite right though.

Have the stock pipe/silencer on mine now, but recently bought a Pro Circuit setup in order to get some additional over-rev. Hope that doesn't turn out to be a waste. Will report back after testing.

A buddy has an FMF setup and his doesn't hit quite as hard and revs out a bit further than stock.

What is the squish after milling?

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12/13/2017 8:52 AM

sdhuskyrider wrote:

Before you buy a pipe, I'd sort the jetting out. Once you sort out the jetting, the bike is much smoother on the low to mid transition. I have a thread going on TC250 Jetting. I'm almost there and it gets better every week. I dropped to the 49T rear sprocket and as the jetting gets cleaned up, it feels like it has more bottom end than it did than with the 50T sprocket. Still wheelies out of corners in 2nd with no clutch. I'm at 2.5 out turns from all the way out on the PV, stock spring. I picked up a 6.0 slide and I have a 42-75 needle and S-4 needle jet, which is supposed to be the final answer but, here is what I am currently at and most people wouldn't know there is a jetting issue.

5.0 slide
44-73 needle in 3rd clip position (comes with stock kit)
S-1 needle jet (stock)
450 main (comes with stock kit)
30 pilot

This is for 75-85 degrees
500ft above sea level
15%ish humidity

Thanks for that detailed info sdhuskyrider -- it's pretty wild that the manufacturer would be so far off on that pilot jet from the factory. I think factory is 45 or 47.5? Looking forward to giving this a try -- cheap fixes are always the best! Looking forward to hearing what your other mods do, if you don't mind updating us once you get a chance.

My riding elevations are 0-500 feet above sea level, the coldest I ride in is the high 30s, highest around 90. Think the 30 pilot would still be the way to go in summer, maybe I will go a step richer for the winter to account for the cold?

My bike also makes a 'ting ting' noise / ignition when I let off of the throttle, instead of returning straight back to idle. Is that also be caused by the rich pilot?

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12/13/2017 12:30 PM

erik_94COBRA wrote:

Biggest help for me on the low end was milling 0.020" off of the head and adding JD Jetting kit. Runs great from very low rpm until it signs off which is still a bit early. Jetting was also easy to get right and is very stable. I am able to run 93 octane without issue as well.

Have also tried 14/49, 14/50, 14/51 gearing. Going to try 14/48 gearing next as bike is too responsive with 14/50 and 14/51, and not long enough with 14/49. 14/51 is nice in that I can stay in 3rd gear almost everywhere. Still not quite right though.

Have the stock pipe/silencer on mine now, but recently bought a Pro Circuit setup in order to get some additional over-rev. Hope that doesn't turn out to be a waste. Will report back after testing.

A buddy has an FMF setup and his doesn't hit quite as hard and revs out a bit further than stock.

AJK wrote:

What is the squish after milling?

After milling squish was around 0.045".


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12/22/2017 7:09 AM

erik_94COBRA wrote:

Biggest help for me on the low end was milling 0.020" off of the head and adding JD Jetting kit. Runs great from very low rpm until it signs off which is still a bit early. Jetting was also easy to get right and is very stable. I am able to run 93 octane without issue as well.

Have also tried 14/49, 14/50, 14/51 gearing. Going to try 14/48 gearing next as bike is too responsive with 14/50 and 14/51, and not long enough with 14/49. 14/51 is nice in that I can stay in 3rd gear almost everywhere. Still not quite right though.

Have the stock pipe/silencer on mine now, but recently bought a Pro Circuit setup in order to get some additional over-rev. Hope that doesn't turn out to be a waste. Will report back after testing.

A buddy has an FMF setup and his doesn't hit quite as hard and revs out a bit further than stock.

AJK wrote:

What is the squish after milling?

erik_94COBRA wrote:

After milling squish was around 0.045".


94cobra did you get a try with the PC pipe and silencer?

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12/22/2017 12:01 PM

AJK wrote:

What is the squish after milling?

erik_94COBRA wrote:

After milling squish was around 0.045".


riv187 wrote:

94cobra did you get a try with the PC pipe and silencer?

Installed last night and did a test in yard today. Initial report is favorable, but tracks in area are all rained out. Will report back after track test.

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