frame temper

dirtsquid
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dirtsquid
Edited Date/Time 10/19/2013 4:46pm
does an aluminum frame need to be temperd after welding on it?
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Erick
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Erick 5/16/2013 4:50am
5/16/2013 4:50am
Randy_Nix wrote:
It does not
Based on what experience and knowlegde?

it depends on the aluminum alloy used.

Almost all high strength aluminum alloys require annealing after welding. This includes pretty much all motocross frames.
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Randy_Nix
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Randy_Nix 5/18/2013 12:22pm
5/18/2013 12:22pm
Based on my knowledge and experience of welding light bar mounts onto frames.

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Erick
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Erick 5/23/2013 7:56am
5/23/2013 7:56am
Randy_Nix wrote:
Based on my knowledge and experience of welding light bar mounts onto frames. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/05/18/23056/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
Based on my knowledge and experience of welding light bar mounts onto frames.

That is an unwise thing to do. You have a good insurance I hope because you risk fracture occuring in the heat affected zones from the weld. Have you done material and FEM analysis and to examine the stress occuring in that area?

If you read literature on aluminum precipitation hardening, annealing and aging you will notice that in order to achieve maximum strength the material will have to be annealed to obtain strength. The material will lose strength in the heat affected zone of the weld because the heat treatment will be compromised.

So for very lightly stressed areas welding can be done, but for highly stress dynamic loaded areas you really have to take action otherwise you compromise your frame strength and durability.

A lot of people don't experience problems with this because they cannot stress the frame enough in order to reach these high stress levels. Also over time the material will age and will automaticly stress relieve (aging will occur).

So be wise before you start welding your frame. If you do it incorrectly and you ride very hard you risk serious injury.
CamP
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CamP 5/23/2013 1:18pm
5/23/2013 1:18pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2013 1:18pm
A buddy of mine is a 30 year welder for Lockheed and also does all the Goldwing frame recall welding in North Texas for Honda. He says that the frame only has to be naturally aged for a few weeks to get full strength after proper welding.
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Erick
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Erick 5/23/2013 1:40pm
5/23/2013 1:40pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2013 1:45pm
CamP wrote:
A buddy of mine is a 30 year welder for Lockheed and also does all the Goldwing frame recall welding in North Texas for Honda. He...
A buddy of mine is a 30 year welder for Lockheed and also does all the Goldwing frame recall welding in North Texas for Honda. He says that the frame only has to be naturally aged for a few weeks to get full strength after proper welding.
That depends on the alloy, so you cannot say that is the same for all frames. I believe (source: AJ from SH on this forum) that the different castings and extrusions are made from different alloys.

Bottom line if you have to weld critical components (this is the case for all materials):

1. determine the alloys
2. determine the state of the alloys (hardened, tempered, recrystallized or whatever)
3. weld with the proper filler
4. proper treatment in order to achieve the parent state of the alloy
CamP
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CamP 5/23/2013 3:11pm
5/23/2013 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2013 3:12pm
CamP wrote:
A buddy of mine is a 30 year welder for Lockheed and also does all the Goldwing frame recall welding in North Texas for Honda. He...
A buddy of mine is a 30 year welder for Lockheed and also does all the Goldwing frame recall welding in North Texas for Honda. He says that the frame only has to be naturally aged for a few weeks to get full strength after proper welding.
Erick wrote:
That depends on the alloy, so you cannot say that is the same for all frames. I believe (source: AJ from SH on this forum) that...
That depends on the alloy, so you cannot say that is the same for all frames. I believe (source: AJ from SH on this forum) that the different castings and extrusions are made from different alloys.

Bottom line if you have to weld critical components (this is the case for all materials):

1. determine the alloys
2. determine the state of the alloys (hardened, tempered, recrystallized or whatever)
3. weld with the proper filler
4. proper treatment in order to achieve the parent state of the alloy
That's correct, but I asked him specifically about welding a CRF frame and he said it doesn't require any special treatment afterwards. If welded properly, it age hardens and is good to go. This guy has been paid by Honda USA to weld 100's of Goldwing frames, so I trust he knows what he's talking about.
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dirtsquid
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dirtsquid 5/23/2013 6:56pm
5/23/2013 6:56pm
Thank you all for the info I am going to be building a kx265 af but I just want it to be safe when it is done. This is going to take a little while but I will post pic as I go for criticism and other input
dirtsquid
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dirtsquid 6/14/2013 7:56am
6/14/2013 7:56am
Air box template 06kx 250 2t to 10 250 f
dirtsquid
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dirtsquid 6/14/2013 8:16am
6/14/2013 8:16am
So far couple more months

I 265af
Randy_Nix
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Randy_Nix 6/14/2013 6:35pm
6/14/2013 6:35pm
Cool project! Keep us updated! (With pics Wink )
xnationalwrench 10/19/2013 4:46pm
10/19/2013 4:46pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2013 7:16pm
dirtsquid wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/19/34355/s1200_image.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/19/34356/s1200_image.jpg[/img]


Looks like you built a bike for Chad Reed LOL
2/5/2023 5:38am

We use to weld steps and hardware on boat ladders and dock ladders the guy who owned the company said he had to pick the aluminum right from the mill and only had a 2-week window for bending the rails, after that point, it was garbage, even with a mandrel bender. He said the aluminum would case hardening after two weeks, it would be cast into its hardness after that point. I could only imagine perhaps there trying to harden in uniformity, perhaps they get it from the mill and need to set it, that could be from painting to milling which may make that a necessary procedure.  

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