Need Help ASAP! 09 CRF450R ate crank seal

mattbmx63
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mattbmx63
Edited Date/Time 7/31/2013 9:13pm
Bike has about 80-90 hrs since I did a crank, bearings, seals (more of a precaution before last season). Went riding last week and after a couple moto's started hearing a ticking noise like an exhaust leak on a car. Pulled right over and looked all over bike. No exhaust obvious exuast leaks, header nuts seem a little loose. Tightened started it and it was fine. Did two more moto's went home and washed bike. Was changing the oil the next day and I pull the filter and see some metal in the filter. Pull ignition cover and see metal dust on magnets and the spring for the crank seal laying there and it has crank gear teeth marks in it. Crank seal seems to be chewed up and loose. Pull engine, head and cylinder look good. Piston skirt has some scouring which was weird since the cylinder was perfect. This is a JE 13.5:1 that was just done about 10-15 hours ago. Any idea as to what could cause this? Just a fluke thing and the spring let go. Bike was running perfect and showed no signs of a problem other than the ticking noise that had gone away. Thanks for any help.
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xnationalwrench 7/15/2013 11:42am
7/15/2013 11:42am
Since its a Honda and has a separate lower end & trans it pretty much has to be a main bearing, rod (big end) bearing or shims or a timing chain,.
rallendude
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rallendude 7/15/2013 11:57am
7/15/2013 11:57am
?? Crank seal in backwards?? The left side crank seal should go in with the lip toward the crank. The lip tension spring should be in toward the bearing if I'm thinking correctly.

I guess if it were in correctly the seal could have popped out and the spring eventually ended up breaking and falling down in the timing chain.

The seal could have just not been seated properly, pushed in too far, not far enough. Nothing in the bottom of the crank area should have caused it to blow out.

Double check all the cam journals. I'd guess that seal is there to direct the oil into the sump for pumping back onto the head. Without it, it could have starved the valve train for oil.
mattbmx63
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mattbmx63 7/15/2013 7:03pm
7/15/2013 7:03pm
Got the flywheel puller today and pull the whole thing apart. Left crank seal isn't much of a seal anymore. Inner and outer edges were ground down and it was spinning in the case. Left crank bearing seems to have shifted slightly out of the case towards the crank. Crank looked fine and big end of rod has no vertical play. Cam seemed fine. Ordered new case (since a new seal seemed to fit in easier than I liked), new crank bearings, seals, cam chain and oil pump (even though it looked fine i'd rather not worry. Any other idea's?

The left seal had the spring facing in towards the crank. Bike ran fine, no smoking, lose of power or anything.

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mattbmx63
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mattbmx63 7/17/2013 3:16pm
7/17/2013 3:16pm
any other ideas?

crank bearing didn't move when i looked closer
motoxer66 7/31/2013 4:15pm
7/31/2013 4:15pm
your well on your way...its a long shot but check all of your vent lines and make sure they are all clear...the case may...and i say may cautiously be building pressure...this is usually cause by the piston rings going bad allowing pressure to build in the case...most likely not the problem since everything is new...but just check the lines and ring gap to rule that out as an issue.

only other stretch i can think of is the mains spiining in the case and it caught the seal and spun it out...getting a new case solves this problem but im curious to know if the bearings did spin or not..again a lot of ifs

these are just floating ideas since your the only one that can see the motor lol
mattbmx63
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mattbmx63 7/31/2013 7:57pm
7/31/2013 7:57pm
The left seal appears to have spun. It actually wore away the bore it sits in. I took a brand new seal in pushed it in no problem. Just put the new bearings and seals in the new cases. I just wish Honda didn't send a crank in a box 4 times it's size to service Honda who then sent it to me destroyed.

I'll check all lines. I did know it was smoking out the breather when it was making the noise and may have been after. It was blue smoke. I didn't pay to much attention to it since it was nearly 100 degree's out and very humid.

Ended up getting a new cylinder and head. Not worth playing games at this point. Might have to stop using Honda GN4 oil and go synthetic too.
jsmx97
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jsmx97 7/31/2013 9:13pm
7/31/2013 9:13pm
Make sure when installing crank seals the case surface and the O.D of the seal is totally clean of oil. I like to use some red loctite on the outer edge of the seal, and in some cases I will use a prick punch to peen the seal in place so there is no way it can spin or pop out.

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