Are bike builds misleading?

mingham97
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Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 6:23am
EDIT: Builds always look like a walk in the park and everyone ends up with absolutely primo looking bikes. But what is it like 15 hours down the track? Is it really practical to pour 4k into a 10 year old bike?

Broad question I know. But generally speaking. Let me know your experience.
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pete24
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7/30/2016 6:09am
if those are your thoughts before you start then , no they are not, dont do it
mingham97
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7/30/2016 6:18am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 6:23am
It's not so much is it worth the hassle. I'm more scared of pouring 4k into a bike and 15 hours later can't find 2ND gear. Sorry for the misleading description I had previous.

7/30/2016 6:43am
I don't get your point, are you saying that after spending 4k tarting up a bike you expect to never have to replace anything again, or that you'd get rid of it instead of spending a couple of hundred to fix it ?
mingham97
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7/30/2016 7:06am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 7:08am
I don't get your point, are you saying that after spending 4k tarting up a bike you expect to never have to replace anything again, or...
I don't get your point, are you saying that after spending 4k tarting up a bike you expect to never have to replace anything again, or that you'd get rid of it instead of spending a couple of hundred to fix it ?
Yeah bro never spend a dollar on it again. New grips in 100 hours maybe who knows probably not.

Think about it mate I think you're missing the point.

The bikes always look good at the end and seem fresh. The reason I ask is because I'm looking at starting one myself. I'm looking at the classifieds thinking I would have to bring it from the ground up and having the thing detonate or something. I look at some of these bikes and can instantly think of a million things that could go wrong that you won't necessarily see at the viewing if the bike.

Worn tranny, pitted shocks and forks, dry forks, sketchy cases, bent forks and obviously a million other problems that one with these older bikes.

Are they basically a box of problems that can be incredibly financially straining

The Shop

Beast666
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7/30/2016 7:11am
mingham97 wrote:
It's not so much is it worth the hassle. I'm more scared of pouring 4k into a bike and 15 hours later can't find 2ND gear...
It's not so much is it worth the hassle. I'm more scared of pouring 4k into a bike and 15 hours later can't find 2ND gear. Sorry for the misleading description I had previous.

Priority 1 is rebuild the mechanicals then concentrate on the cosmetics. If you know pf any issues prior to tear down you focus on those. If you rebuild it correctly you should not have a problem unless the replacement parts fail. If you address the mechanical aspect in a half ass fashion expect problems.

A rebuild is not for a beginner to tackle. If you don't have 100 percent conference in your agility don't attempt to rebuild the bike.
mingham97
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7/30/2016 7:20am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 7:27am
Beast666 wrote:
Priority 1 is rebuild the mechanicals then concentrate on the cosmetics. If you know pf any issues prior to tear down you focus on those. If...
Priority 1 is rebuild the mechanicals then concentrate on the cosmetics. If you know pf any issues prior to tear down you focus on those. If you rebuild it correctly you should not have a problem unless the replacement parts fail. If you address the mechanical aspect in a half ass fashion expect problems.

A rebuild is not for a beginner to tackle. If you don't have 100 percent conference in your agility don't attempt to rebuild the bike.
Yeah for sure. I can definitely understand that you would get it sound than move from there. I have a few mates where their build was a lot of hassle. And they are qualified mechanics and still could never get the bike 100%. It was a money pit and it was a whole heap of trouble - near impossible - finding parts. The thread is basically asking if anyone has ever had a similar experience. Where their project has gone horribly south
7/30/2016 7:20am
You take those risks when you buy the bike. About it being ten years old, you have the difference between the cost you bought the bike and the cost of a new bike to make up that gap, plus its fun to build bikes.
7/30/2016 7:36am
Thats also why you would have to start with a solid bike, in order to avoid big suspension/motor problems.
mingham97
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7/30/2016 8:15am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 8:20am
Kx125rider wrote:
Thats also why you would have to start with a solid bike, in order to avoid big suspension/motor problems.
Yeah for sure. To put it in perspective, I'm after a RM125 or 250 and I cannot find one that is in good condition. Scared of opening a very tricky box of frogs. It will be my first build, not my first time wielding a spanner, so I'm a little worried to say the least
racinstation
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7/30/2016 8:40am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 8:41am
It is a labor of love. I have built quite a few bikes from the ground up and in the end you MAY save some money, but that is not the point. I built an RMZ450 a little over a year ago and I kept close track of the expenses. I was into it about $5000.00, which included a brand new crate motor. This DID NOT include any labor. The way I look at it, I saved about $2000.00, but probably had $4000.00 in labor at $20.00/hour. BUT.........when I finished the bike, it had exactly what I wanted on it and I had the pride of ownership via blood sweat and tears. Most guys would just go buy a new bike and be done right now.

I am building (4) different RM125/RM250 projects right now and you are correct. The parts and pieces are getting difficult to find in the used market. New parts are no problem. I would replace all the bearings and check transmission parts carefully. All new seals, linkage bearings, wheel bearings etc. You can build a really nice 2 stroke for about $3000.00 and it will be like brand new.

Again, this is not a financial investment where you are going to save a bunch of money, or make a bunch on the resale. It is for a guy that wants to look at his bike and know he turned every nut and bolt on that sucker!
mingham97
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7/30/2016 8:47am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2016 8:55am
It is a labor of love. I have built quite a few bikes from the ground up and in the end you MAY save some money...
It is a labor of love. I have built quite a few bikes from the ground up and in the end you MAY save some money, but that is not the point. I built an RMZ450 a little over a year ago and I kept close track of the expenses. I was into it about $5000.00, which included a brand new crate motor. This DID NOT include any labor. The way I look at it, I saved about $2000.00, but probably had $4000.00 in labor at $20.00/hour. BUT.........when I finished the bike, it had exactly what I wanted on it and I had the pride of ownership via blood sweat and tears. Most guys would just go buy a new bike and be done right now.

I am building (4) different RM125/RM250 projects right now and you are correct. The parts and pieces are getting difficult to find in the used market. New parts are no problem. I would replace all the bearings and check transmission parts carefully. All new seals, linkage bearings, wheel bearings etc. You can build a really nice 2 stroke for about $3000.00 and it will be like brand new.

Again, this is not a financial investment where you are going to save a bunch of money, or make a bunch on the resale. It is for a guy that wants to look at his bike and know he turned every nut and bolt on that sucker!
Cheers mate. You're a great help. I figured the same. It's definitely not a bike to win on or a bike to make money from but to own the bike and know everything about it and most importantly just to have fun on a strong bike. Probably won't even stress about cosmetics in all honesty. I've been around the block with all bikes and until I can't afford a brand spanker, an old built bike will do just fine.

Just while we're on the subject on RMs, how will I know if a bike has been rebuilt or not when I rebuild it myself? Is there anyway of truly knowing? There's a bike around me going cheap on its original piston. As soon as my 250f is gone, I'll be onto that to pick it up. It'll be too little too late once I've brought it to find out if the guy was lying but just out if curiosity really.
7/30/2016 8:51am
Before doing any project bike set a budget and ask your self if you can go $1500 over that budget because thats what it will realistically be, or more.


I have just accepted the fact that none of my builds are going to be THAT exotic. Im more focused on a good looking, well thought out, reliable bike that I wouldn't hesitate to take anywhere. I may not have polished transmission gears but anyone can still build a good looking nice bike.

I often wonder how many of these awesome builds actually get ridden. Not taken around the subdivision but actually ridden.

CarlinoJoeVideo
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7/30/2016 8:56am
Like these guys said, starting with a bike that's solid is key unless you plan to do the full engine and suspension from A-Z. Just wait for the right bike and try to pick out the problems before you agree to buy it. You can't forget that with used bikes there's a little bit of luck involved!
mingham97
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7/30/2016 9:01am
Before doing any project bike set a budget and ask your self if you can go $1500 over that budget because thats what it will realistically...
Before doing any project bike set a budget and ask your self if you can go $1500 over that budget because thats what it will realistically be, or more.


I have just accepted the fact that none of my builds are going to be THAT exotic. Im more focused on a good looking, well thought out, reliable bike that I wouldn't hesitate to take anywhere. I may not have polished transmission gears but anyone can still build a good looking nice bike.

I often wonder how many of these awesome builds actually get ridden. Not taken around the subdivision but actually ridden.

Yeah I think if I hit a financial barrier (im a uni kid doing it on my own) it will be put on the back burner or atleast finished to a certain check point. I don't care for exotic bikes mostly because I will be riding it. A bike that's had thousands spent on cosmetics will look horrible after a few rides so I would keep cosmetic work to a minimum. Some guys love to build bikes to be eye candy with all the fruit (ohlins ohlins ohlins powder coat ohlins), but don't ride it. I mean everyone does it for different reasons which is respectable and who am i to judge. But I would always (at this stage of my life where I can still ride) would only build a bike if it is going to be functional
CarlinoJoeVideo
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7/30/2016 9:19am
Try and budget it out ahead of time so you know what you need to complete it.
Bike
Engine
Suspension
Bearings
Plastics
Tires
Ect
Ect
Then you can prioritize which parts you need in order to have the bike in a rideable state as you save up money for bling if you wanted.
r.sal923
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7/30/2016 5:41pm
mingham97 wrote:
EDIT: Builds always look like a walk in the park and everyone ends up with absolutely primo looking bikes. But what is it like 15 hours...
EDIT: Builds always look like a walk in the park and everyone ends up with absolutely primo looking bikes. But what is it like 15 hours down the track? Is it really practical to pour 4k into a 10 year old bike?

Broad question I know. But generally speaking. Let me know your experience.
I watched my dad spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on fixing old cars. They are all master pieces, but having driven them all I would take a Subaru wrx any day
BAMX
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7/30/2016 7:04pm
I think that it depends on what you are trying to do. Do you really need to put 4k into a bike build? I bought my 02 RM125 for $400. Sure, it was a total piece of crap but after a bunch of searching Ebay, Amazon and Motosport, I was able to get it going for another $400. It wasn't a Vital worthy bike build but I have had a ton of fun riding and racing it.
JM485
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7/30/2016 7:22pm
To be honest, I would build a Honda or a Yamaha. I have a Suzuki that has been sitting for a few years now because I'm so sick of dumping money into the damn thing, and having Suzuki charge me up the ass for parts. I'm on a YZ now and I think it's every bit as good of a bike, plus parts are about half as expensive. Just something to consider, parts pricing is important for a build and Suzukis are definitely not budget friendly.
Slosh 112
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7/31/2016 2:15am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2016 2:19am
Beware! Suzuki is so Farken dear for OEM parts and there is not as much in the way for aftermarket stuff, had to get carbon parts from 3 different vendors and piece together an oversize Motostuff kit using disc from one bike and a bracket from another. Im in the tail end of my full ground up build on an 08 RM125. haven't tallied up how much I've spent on it yet but I am guessing around 5 grand including 1000 on buying the bike.

Bike was shagged every part needed rebuilding and needed a fair few EXPENSIVE oem parts (shock compression adjuster). Did it all myself, Engine/transmission, rear shock, forks and a bit of custom work too, relocating CDI to get a honda steering damper fitted up, lathe work and anodising. In the end I'm still going to be under the price of a new YZ125 and waaaay under the price of a new KTM/Husky 125. I could have bought better bikes that required less work for a bit more money but i wanted a full tear down rebuild and it will be totally worth it when its done as it will be a better than new 2008 RM125.

If you want a project then yes its worth it. if you want a cheap, reliable and headache free bike that becomes more of a problem and a question of how much time and money you want to invest, not just in bike parts but in the tools to do it as there are a few bike specific tools that make working on a bike less of a horror like fork seal drivers & fork cap tools (also flywheel puller set, clutch basket holder, case splitter). They cost around 50 bucks each but a bike shop usually charges 120 bucks per leg to replace seals and oil.

But a lot of my bike went into making it look good too Plastics, billet parts, new wheel sets, replacing all of the hardware and having things anodised, thats stuff you dont have to do to get a good looking reliable bike, it all depends what you want.
7/31/2016 2:32am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2016 2:46am
I don't get your point, are you saying that after spending 4k tarting up a bike you expect to never have to replace anything again, or...
I don't get your point, are you saying that after spending 4k tarting up a bike you expect to never have to replace anything again, or that you'd get rid of it instead of spending a couple of hundred to fix it ?
mingham97 wrote:
Yeah bro never spend a dollar on it again. New grips in 100 hours maybe who knows probably not. Think about it mate I think you're...
Yeah bro never spend a dollar on it again. New grips in 100 hours maybe who knows probably not.

Think about it mate I think you're missing the point.

The bikes always look good at the end and seem fresh. The reason I ask is because I'm looking at starting one myself. I'm looking at the classifieds thinking I would have to bring it from the ground up and having the thing detonate or something. I look at some of these bikes and can instantly think of a million things that could go wrong that you won't necessarily see at the viewing if the bike.

Worn tranny, pitted shocks and forks, dry forks, sketchy cases, bent forks and obviously a million other problems that one with these older bikes.

Are they basically a box of problems that can be incredibly financially straining
Sorry bro, but what you'd written makes no sense, think about it...

Why would you chuck 4k into a bike that wasn't mechanically sound ?

Why are you worried about having a mechanical issue that may cost a few hundred bucks, after spending 4k on shiny bits that won't make it any more or less likely to happen ? It's an illogical point of view, having a mechanical issue bares nothing in common with how much bling there is on it, and if a 200 buck maintenance/repair is an issue why aren't you worried about spending 4k on the shiny shiny ?

I don't know of anyone who's done a rebuild without starting with the basics first, to refresh the motor and chassis first goes without saying..
mingham97
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7/31/2016 2:53am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2016 2:54am
Sorry bro, but what you'd written makes no sense, think about it... Why would you chuck 4k into a bike that wasn't mechanically sound ? Why...
Sorry bro, but what you'd written makes no sense, think about it...

Why would you chuck 4k into a bike that wasn't mechanically sound ?

Why are you worried about having a mechanical issue that may cost a few hundred bucks, after spending 4k on shiny bits that won't make it any more or less likely to happen ? It's an illogical point of view, having a mechanical issue bares nothing in common with how much bling there is on it, and if a 200 buck maintenance/repair is an issue why aren't you worried about spending 4k on the shiny shiny ?

I don't know of anyone who's done a rebuild without starting with the basics first, to refresh the motor and chassis first goes without saying..
My question has been answered and easily understood by plenty of users above.
But if I have to spell it out for you
Buy bike -> dump shit tonne of money into it (mechanical and not just "shiny shiny") -> still not reliable or strong -> waste of time
Who has had the above experience? Because the skill on vital makes it look easy when I'm sure it isn't.
I can't believe you can't figure that out..but anyway...
mingham97
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7/31/2016 4:18am
Slosh 112 wrote:
Beware! Suzuki is so Farken dear for OEM parts and there is not as much in the way for aftermarket stuff, had to get carbon parts...
Beware! Suzuki is so Farken dear for OEM parts and there is not as much in the way for aftermarket stuff, had to get carbon parts from 3 different vendors and piece together an oversize Motostuff kit using disc from one bike and a bracket from another. Im in the tail end of my full ground up build on an 08 RM125. haven't tallied up how much I've spent on it yet but I am guessing around 5 grand including 1000 on buying the bike.

Bike was shagged every part needed rebuilding and needed a fair few EXPENSIVE oem parts (shock compression adjuster). Did it all myself, Engine/transmission, rear shock, forks and a bit of custom work too, relocating CDI to get a honda steering damper fitted up, lathe work and anodising. In the end I'm still going to be under the price of a new YZ125 and waaaay under the price of a new KTM/Husky 125. I could have bought better bikes that required less work for a bit more money but i wanted a full tear down rebuild and it will be totally worth it when its done as it will be a better than new 2008 RM125.

If you want a project then yes its worth it. if you want a cheap, reliable and headache free bike that becomes more of a problem and a question of how much time and money you want to invest, not just in bike parts but in the tools to do it as there are a few bike specific tools that make working on a bike less of a horror like fork seal drivers & fork cap tools (also flywheel puller set, clutch basket holder, case splitter). They cost around 50 bucks each but a bike shop usually charges 120 bucks per leg to replace seals and oil.

But a lot of my bike went into making it look good too Plastics, billet parts, new wheel sets, replacing all of the hardware and having things anodised, thats stuff you dont have to do to get a good looking reliable bike, it all depends what you want.
Thanks for your input slosh. I have been watching your builds and they are of great quality so your opinion is much appreciated! I'm assuming there was a fair bit of work to be done to your bike and it seems like it was in pretty bad condition and basically an example of what I'm worried about. I think I will spend the money on a good RM rather than a build. I can do all sorts of basics (bearings, top ends and all maintenance) no problems. Am defintely scared of the bottom end and the suspension department. So until I am 100% confident in doing that (which would most likely need to be done), I might hold off on a ground up job.
7/31/2016 7:10am
Sorry bro, but what you'd written makes no sense, think about it... Why would you chuck 4k into a bike that wasn't mechanically sound ? Why...
Sorry bro, but what you'd written makes no sense, think about it...

Why would you chuck 4k into a bike that wasn't mechanically sound ?

Why are you worried about having a mechanical issue that may cost a few hundred bucks, after spending 4k on shiny bits that won't make it any more or less likely to happen ? It's an illogical point of view, having a mechanical issue bares nothing in common with how much bling there is on it, and if a 200 buck maintenance/repair is an issue why aren't you worried about spending 4k on the shiny shiny ?

I don't know of anyone who's done a rebuild without starting with the basics first, to refresh the motor and chassis first goes without saying..
mingham97 wrote:
My question has been answered and easily understood by plenty of users above. But if I have to spell it out for you Buy bike ->...
My question has been answered and easily understood by plenty of users above.
But if I have to spell it out for you
Buy bike -> dump shit tonne of money into it (mechanical and not just "shiny shiny") -> still not reliable or strong -> waste of time
Who has had the above experience? Because the skill on vital makes it look easy when I'm sure it isn't.
I can't believe you can't figure that out..but anyway...
I'm not trying to pick on you so don't be offended, but i still don't get your point of reasoning.. lol.

Do you not think new bikes have issues, as there's threads on here about peoples 2015 250f's trashing cases... If you're doing things properly, i.e, fixing the motor/chassis/mechanicals out of that 4k before buying graphics, plastics, wheels etc, then what you're worrying about is luck... the same luck that anybody could have regardless of what year or how shiny the bike is.... ?

Anyway, i still think you're worrying about what you're having for supper while eating your breakfast.. but i guess we just don't think alike, so all the best with whatever way you choose to go with it.


mikec265
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7/31/2016 7:18am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2016 7:20am
My kx500/rm250 conversion has cost about $5000. I didn't keep track of the hours building it but I bet I have over 80 hours in it.
I could have bought a new leftover bike for the same if you add what my time is worth.
I love the bike but I don't think I'll ever build a bike from the bare frame again. I'm keeping it until I'm dead and adding $1500 of more stuff.
3rdgearpinned
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7/31/2016 9:11am
I personally think that if someone is concerned with having a 10-15 or 20 year old bike that worth half of what you have invested in it then they don't need to start any type of build. It's about the build and making something once great, great again, with the own builders taste.
7/31/2016 10:35am
I personally think that if someone is concerned with having a 10-15 or 20 year old bike that worth half of what you have invested in...
I personally think that if someone is concerned with having a 10-15 or 20 year old bike that worth half of what you have invested in it then they don't need to start any type of build. It's about the build and making something once great, great again, with the own builders taste.
Totally agree, you lose money 99.9% of the time... So you only do these things if you're emotionally attached to the object, or a serial modifier/tinkerer.. which in both cases totally negates the worry of general maintenance and repair bills as you're either fixing something you love, or doing something you love.

7/31/2016 12:09pm
I build my 125 because I can.

Work, buy dirtbike parts, have epic shit in the workshop, then work again to pay for more cool stuff.

Circle of life!Tongue
CrGuy2T
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7/31/2016 12:30pm
Its just a fun factor in my opinion. You can't really worry about how much money you will lose later with the bike. Usually just sell off the expensive parts as many as possible. Then, sell the bike for market value.
7/31/2016 2:44pm
I just bought a 2014 Husqvarna TC250 with a blown engine (IE Crank, cases, piston, cylinder all bad); so you guys are going to get to see if it was worth the hassle starting some time next week.
neverwas
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7/31/2016 8:54pm
It is a labor of love. I have built quite a few bikes from the ground up and in the end you MAY save some money...
It is a labor of love. I have built quite a few bikes from the ground up and in the end you MAY save some money, but that is not the point. I built an RMZ450 a little over a year ago and I kept close track of the expenses. I was into it about $5000.00, which included a brand new crate motor. This DID NOT include any labor. The way I look at it, I saved about $2000.00, but probably had $4000.00 in labor at $20.00/hour. BUT.........when I finished the bike, it had exactly what I wanted on it and I had the pride of ownership via blood sweat and tears. Most guys would just go buy a new bike and be done right now.

I am building (4) different RM125/RM250 projects right now and you are correct. The parts and pieces are getting difficult to find in the used market. New parts are no problem. I would replace all the bearings and check transmission parts carefully. All new seals, linkage bearings, wheel bearings etc. You can build a really nice 2 stroke for about $3000.00 and it will be like brand new.

Again, this is not a financial investment where you are going to save a bunch of money, or make a bunch on the resale. It is for a guy that wants to look at his bike and know he turned every nut and bolt on that sucker!
It's the journey not the destination kind of project. The final out come is the riding of the bike course. But it seems their is always more you want to do or change and that is true of a bike fresh off of the show room floor.

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