2015 YZ250F PROBLEMS!

sgrimmxdad
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6/3/2015 8:29am
The new one is available yet, at least I haven't been able to get one!
smoothies862
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6/3/2015 4:08pm
ok so i need that tps sensor,or ill have it haunting my brain when i rideUnsure i have 10.5 hrs now and no problems so far. pressure wash with care and i start it and blow with compressed air as its idling for a minute or two. i also wrapped the connectors in electrical tape.not sure if that helps or not? shouldve saved some $ off the blu cru card for the tps sensorTongue
slackinoff
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6/3/2015 8:28pm
spray CorrosionX all up in the electrical areas. The RC boat guys swear by it. You can literally spray a speed controller down, servo, whatever, and run it underwater.
m121c
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6/3/2015 10:04pm
Unfortunately with my bike I am 99% sure it isn't electrical related anymore... we checked the spark when it wouldn't fire and it had it had plenty. My theory is I'm getting water directly into the engine, and if I had to guess it would be through the intake system. If that's the case... I really home the dealer can find something to undeniably pin it on Yamaha. To be completely honest I wouldn't want them to just fix the issue, if it has truly been water logged internally multiple times, I would want a new motor. Now with how shady Yamaha has been here these last 3 weeks, I doubt I get anything out of them.

Once I get a update from the dealer what they find I will make a post on what exactly mine did, what tests we did, and what was wrong. Hopefully it may help someone else having these issues.

The Shop

slackinoff
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6/4/2015 5:11am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2015 5:25am
^^^^Water directly into the engine through the intake system wouldn't happen unless you are getting into some seriously wet riding.

What kind of wet riding have you been doing?

Oh and try turning your idle speed up!! my 14 initially would take 50 kicks to light until I turned the idle speed up a little bit.....its worth a try man. It starts in a a few kicks ever since then.
I feel your pain, I was throwing wrenches I was so pissed off when it started happening.
m121c
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6/4/2015 10:43am
Nothing about what my bike is doing should happen haha

So this is what my bike does, what we have done, and what we are currently doing to try figuring it out.

Since I bought my 15 new from the dealer in March I have put 7 hours of riding on it. Every time I have washed the thing, it will not start. The most extreme was last week I washed it on Tuesday, I tried starting it every night until I took it to a dealership on Saturday it wouldn't fire. You can't even bump start the thing.

I have tried power washer, garden hose, putting my stock exhaust back on, etc. Let's just get the obvious out of the way, Yes I do plug the exhaust. I take the filter out, put a twin air cover over the air box, and even then I don't trust the seal on those so I put a paper towel in the air box if any water were to pass the cover.

So as we have seen Yamaha has a horrible wiring harness that you can barely get rained on without it getting all messed up, I have been told by many this is something you have to do yourself so I di-electric greased the thing twice after the first attempt didn't seem to work. I electrical taped all connections that were already bad with water and dirt as they were the most vulnerable it seemed. I did this at around 2-3 hours.

None of that helped. More details... when it finally fires it will idle fine, idle fine, then the first crack of the throttle it dies. Takes a few 10 kicks and fires up, once you hit the throttle again it will shoot white moisture filled clouds out the exhaust, I mean when I shut the bike off it's like someone dumped a glass of water down my exhaust it's so soaked.

Now I have tried washing it while it was running just spraying the motor'electrical being careful not to get my filter or exhaust wet, the bike wouldn't shut off or anything. If I I wash it and start it up right after it will fire... but the first initial crack of the throttle the bike with die instantly then take 10-20 kicks at best to get fired up again.

To eliminate to the whole electrical question, I took it to my local dealer who then checked for spark, when we pulled the spark plug out it was rusted and corroded on the the electrode side of the plug. Now this tells me either there was water in my motor at one point or condensation over the winter/shipment really took a toll. Anyways, checked for spark and it had PLENTY to fire up, but while I was kicking it a white moisture mist was coming out the hole where the spark was. It didn't smell like race gas so only other explanation would be water. Same thing you would do back in the day if your 2 stroke was flooded with water.. pull the spark plug out kick it over a few times and she'll be good to go. Well wouldn't you know it, when we put the spark plug back in (I ordered a new one) it fired right up. First crack of the throttle AAANNNDDD it dies. 15-20 kicks it fires, and runs just fine after that. Went it rode it that Sunday for 2 hours and didn't have an issue. Washed it on Tuesday and now my bike is sitting at the dealership not running when I left it.

My theory is water is getting into the throttle body somehow and the gear heads, technicians, moto guys I've talked to seem to think that would make sense. Again though, you never know.

My thing is, I'm not going to do Yamaha's troubleshooting for them when it is THERE problem, nor can I afford to chase a ghost issue that could have a hand full of different solutions. I have not taken the thing apart myself and all work done to it has been reported by a licensed dealer, I can't afford to let Yamaha try to blame me on anything.

It is currently 6 days since I left at the dealership, and I've heard nothing so far. I will update when I get I know more what is wrong and hopefully have a something finally good say about Yamaha.... I absolutely love the bike but if I'm not satisfied about how Yamaha handles this I may just be riding another color out of spite next year.
Jakes Dad
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6/4/2015 12:39pm
Thermo sensor's on national backorder, hmmmmm????
drtrcr400
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6/4/2015 12:45pm
m121c wrote:
Nothing about what my bike is doing should happen haha So this is what my bike does, what we have done, and what we are currently...
Nothing about what my bike is doing should happen haha

So this is what my bike does, what we have done, and what we are currently doing to try figuring it out.

Since I bought my 15 new from the dealer in March I have put 7 hours of riding on it. Every time I have washed the thing, it will not start. The most extreme was last week I washed it on Tuesday, I tried starting it every night until I took it to a dealership on Saturday it wouldn't fire. You can't even bump start the thing.

I have tried power washer, garden hose, putting my stock exhaust back on, etc. Let's just get the obvious out of the way, Yes I do plug the exhaust. I take the filter out, put a twin air cover over the air box, and even then I don't trust the seal on those so I put a paper towel in the air box if any water were to pass the cover.

So as we have seen Yamaha has a horrible wiring harness that you can barely get rained on without it getting all messed up, I have been told by many this is something you have to do yourself so I di-electric greased the thing twice after the first attempt didn't seem to work. I electrical taped all connections that were already bad with water and dirt as they were the most vulnerable it seemed. I did this at around 2-3 hours.

None of that helped. More details... when it finally fires it will idle fine, idle fine, then the first crack of the throttle it dies. Takes a few 10 kicks and fires up, once you hit the throttle again it will shoot white moisture filled clouds out the exhaust, I mean when I shut the bike off it's like someone dumped a glass of water down my exhaust it's so soaked.

Now I have tried washing it while it was running just spraying the motor'electrical being careful not to get my filter or exhaust wet, the bike wouldn't shut off or anything. If I I wash it and start it up right after it will fire... but the first initial crack of the throttle the bike with die instantly then take 10-20 kicks at best to get fired up again.

To eliminate to the whole electrical question, I took it to my local dealer who then checked for spark, when we pulled the spark plug out it was rusted and corroded on the the electrode side of the plug. Now this tells me either there was water in my motor at one point or condensation over the winter/shipment really took a toll. Anyways, checked for spark and it had PLENTY to fire up, but while I was kicking it a white moisture mist was coming out the hole where the spark was. It didn't smell like race gas so only other explanation would be water. Same thing you would do back in the day if your 2 stroke was flooded with water.. pull the spark plug out kick it over a few times and she'll be good to go. Well wouldn't you know it, when we put the spark plug back in (I ordered a new one) it fired right up. First crack of the throttle AAANNNDDD it dies. 15-20 kicks it fires, and runs just fine after that. Went it rode it that Sunday for 2 hours and didn't have an issue. Washed it on Tuesday and now my bike is sitting at the dealership not running when I left it.

My theory is water is getting into the throttle body somehow and the gear heads, technicians, moto guys I've talked to seem to think that would make sense. Again though, you never know.

My thing is, I'm not going to do Yamaha's troubleshooting for them when it is THERE problem, nor can I afford to chase a ghost issue that could have a hand full of different solutions. I have not taken the thing apart myself and all work done to it has been reported by a licensed dealer, I can't afford to let Yamaha try to blame me on anything.

It is currently 6 days since I left at the dealership, and I've heard nothing so far. I will update when I get I know more what is wrong and hopefully have a something finally good say about Yamaha.... I absolutely love the bike but if I'm not satisfied about how Yamaha handles this I may just be riding another color out of spite next year.
Have you checked the fuel tank for water? It only takes a few drops to create the symptoms your describing.
m121c
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6/4/2015 1:17pm
It's definitely a possibility but no it's not something I checked, could be something the dealership does though if they don't find something with the intake. We have spark so that only leaves the air supply or the fuel supply.

A few drops is definitely not what I am getting out of this thing when it finally fires though or what I got out if it when it was kicked checking the spark... which has me worried that my motor may just be worthless when we figure this all out.
slackinoff
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6/4/2015 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2015 2:11pm
Thanks for taking the time to write out that explanation M121c.

Yea wow! That is super strange. I know exactly what you mean on taking the plug out and seeing mist/water come out when turning the motor over and its obviously not fuel. ( not on my bike....a jeep and a quad that got swamped).

I have an theory....if you look at the parts schematic that shows the intake joiner, intake shroud, air temp sensor, ect. That particular schematic.....I wonder if the intake joiner is cracked, or the hole were the air temp sensor attaches, is not sealed well and allowing water to creep in and settle into the throttle body or intake port......

Go here https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/1

Then select intake.

You could imagine all the points moisture could creep in and settle down into the throttle body or intake port.
sgrimmxdad
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6/5/2015 4:31am
We have been taking the harness and putting the die electric grease on all the connections since the problem started happening.

I don' think moisture in the engine is my problem. We have changed the plug several times, no sign of corrosion. We have also put a new top end in the bike and all looked WONDERFUL!

This is a damn dirtbike. If I can't pressure wash the thing clean, I don't need it.

As of now the bike is running good, I will keep the thread updated. We haven't put many hours on it, he hurt his knee on my 450 the other day. We are going today for a MRI, looks like his meniscus is the problem there....
6/5/2015 4:55am
do you guys suggest replacing TPS sensor on '14 YZ250F to the updated TPS part number?

(not having issues with bike - just wondering if new TPS part number is "safer" i.e. not cutting out)
slackinoff
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6/5/2015 2:10pm
do you guys suggest replacing TPS sensor on '14 YZ250F to the updated TPS part number? (not having issues with bike - just wondering if new...
do you guys suggest replacing TPS sensor on '14 YZ250F to the updated TPS part number?

(not having issues with bike - just wondering if new TPS part number is "safer" i.e. not cutting out)
I have a 14 and I am not. If anything, see what they are doing for the 16.
Rowlands
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6/5/2015 2:55pm
Been following this thread closely so I am glad you have sorted the issue Smile

I am more concerned about my conrod than the tps sensor, has anyone got a good amount of hours on a 15 ?
sgrimmxdad
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6/6/2015 5:32am
We have about 60 hours on ours, know of several with 40-60!

I have gone back and spoke with the other dads that had a problem. Seems putting the grease in the connections solves the problem for MOST.

Wishing we could have stayed on the 2 strokes lol!
m121c
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6/16/2015 9:13am
So just an update on this, going on 3 weeks now and still no real answer on what the issue is. An initial look into the intake system showed no obvious issues so a more thorough inspection is happening now. I have to credit the dealer though, they are really trying to help me out here, but it's going to take one complicated tango with Yamaha at the end from what I understand.

To confirm a few things though, when the bike was taken apart it was evident that it has had several hours of water logged in the actual motor. The spark plug was rusted very badly and well lets just say they basically told me water was coming out of the thing when they were taking it apart.

So in my mind, the motor is completely screwed. It's not something I can really trust, although back in the day you could water log a 2 stroke, push the water out, fire it up and off you went. With these 4 strokes though, there are way to many moving parts and they are just to damn expensive to risk anything.
Rowlands
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6/16/2015 12:22pm
That's strange ? Where is the water coming from or is that a mystery, surely you would notice a lack of coolant if it was leaking through the water pump seal ? Really hope you get your bike sorted though man
m121c
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6/16/2015 2:51pm
Thanks, ya it's pretty much a mystery right now. If I had to guess from going over it and over it in my mind, I would have to think it's the intake somewhere but who knows. No lack of coolant BUT it has 7 hours of riding on it and it still spews coolant into the skid plate so it is getting really hot.

Should know more hopefully this Friday.
m121c
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6/22/2015 4:14pm
Finally got an update today... not a very good one.

They confirmed that my motor is screwed, it has been taking water/dirt in somewhere. Everything was corroded and had dirt/sand baked into it. Which I expected... but what I didn't expect was the lack of effort of actually trying to find what caused it.

Now the whole objective for the bike being at the dealer was to find out where the water was coming from... for having the bike for a month they have no real concrete answer/proof what the issue is. Heck they didn't even test it for themselves, it was never washed once.

I have a Twin Air powerflow kit on the bike... they immediately pointed the finger at that. I understand it's aftermarket and that is all Yamaha would see but I can say with 100% confidence that isn't the issue. They tried telling me the aluminum bracket "flexes" compared to plastic stock one. I told them I know that wasn't the issues as every time I wash the thing I ALWAYS put shop towels in the airbox incase water were to get past it will get soaked up. Now out of the 7-8 times I washed it I NEVER had and issue. My airbox is spotless clean, you could eat out of it. It's obvious no water or dirt has gotten through.

But I know they can't take my word for anything so I rush shipped my stock unit up to them (they are 4 hours away) for them to prove that it wasn't the issue. I told them to put it on and I know the problem will re-occur. They didn't do that at all. They told me they couldn't because they couldn't even get the bike to fire up so how could they test it. Well by what they said, it would logical that if you put paper towels in the air box and that Powerflow kit truly didn't sit flat, the paper towels would be wet right? I guess that was too easy to prove it wrong and they never did it.

Instead they took my stock unit and BONDED IT TO MY AIRBOX without telling me, just to "make sure the issue didn't occur again" when they can't for sure know that the water was getting through there. Again, I tell them wash it now, still guarantee water gets in there even with it bonded on flat. They respond with the fact the bike doesn't run so they can't and it was up to me if I wanted to them to dig into it deeper but it was going to take a lot time, time that Yamaha will not cover.

They basically told me my motor is screwed, water was getting in somewhere, and they can guarantee Yamaha will not do a single thing due to the Twin Air kit. Whether or not the was the real issue or not they said that was Yamaha's way out of it. Told me if I truly think it's Yamaha issue then I will have to take it up with them myself as they can only do so much. Well that would be great if Yamaha would actually contact me back or would answer their phones..

Sorry for the long read, just extremely frustrated my BRAND NEW bike that I invested a lot of money into is completely screwed and Yamaha could care less that I now have to replace the motor.
slackinoff
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6/22/2015 5:25pm
Good lord. Im am sorry to hear that.
nytsmaC
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6/22/2015 7:21pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2015 2:40am
Wow, great dealer. Who was it? Sounds like they completely underminded you and hung you for the engine bill. And no problem resolution so it will happen again. I'd be furious.
m121c
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6/23/2015 7:46am
Well unfortunately for them I have a motor guy that helps me out so I definitely won't pay them to do it!

They still have my bike and I'm not giving up on this so I won't be naming the dealer as of now, It's a big dealer and I wouldn't be surprised if they browse vital. I'm trying not to step on anyone toe's until it is all over and done with and there is nothing left but to throw everyone under the bus that screwed me over. I am so sick of letting this manufacturer walk all over me when they know there is nothing I can actually do, the least I can do is not go down with out a fight. They have already cost me the whole race season on this bike, cost me a bunch of time, traveling miles, and money.

I called Yamaha yesterday to see if I could establish some contact.. I got a "So and so who runs the show is out to lunch take a message and we will get back to you later today". This is the 2nd time this has happened the first of which was weeks ago, you think I got a return call? Nope. Looks like I'm gonna have to give the reminder every hour on the hour till someone actually wants to talk to me.

I can tell you now from my experience with them... I will never buy another Yamaha. Which sucks.. I really like the bike.
m121c
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6/29/2015 9:37pm
Finally a positive update! For anyone following this still, we found the problem was the Fuel Injector O-Ring seal into the throttle body was crushed in there sideways allowing water, dirt, soap, sand, and the works into my motor effectively ruining it and my throttle body. It was an obvious flaw from the factory and these things just happen. Unfortunately it sucks we didn't find this 2 months sooner but just thankful to finally find it. Glad I followed my gut when I knew it was not that kit.

We were literally buttoning up the bike up to take home when we were just going over things on what was done, what it could be, etc. with the mechanic when we starting talking about the throttle body and all the little seals. Well one thing lead to another and we pulled the injector out and boom, the the O-Ring was it. Who would of thought that such a little thing would do so much damage.

Just thought I would update this for those who have followed my posts. Thanks!
Rowlands
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6/30/2015 1:59am
Awesome news man stoked for you, are Yamaha replacing everything for you ?

OP: how is your bike running now ?
m121c
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6/30/2015 2:28pm
Rowlands wrote:
Awesome news man stoked for you, are Yamaha replacing everything for you ?

OP: how is your bike running now ?
Yup, Yamaha is replacing it. They can't get away with this one thanfully!
slackinoff
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7/1/2015 2:09pm
Rowlands wrote:
Awesome news man stoked for you, are Yamaha replacing everything for you ?

OP: how is your bike running now ?
m121c wrote:
Yup, Yamaha is replacing it. They can't get away with this one thanfully!
This is good to hear.
smoothies862
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7/1/2015 4:18pm
good for you. thank you for doing all the leg work for others if this issue comes up. now i wonder if we should just go ahead and have those orings and or check them before a problem arises. hope you get it back soion and get to ride.
crasher813
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7/9/2015 5:37am Edited Date/Time 7/9/2015 5:38am
Maybe I missed something, and I don't intend to insult anyone's intelligence; However, I'm seeing a lot of electrical problems here and no mechanical thoughts. If this were a two stroke and it started leaning out and shutting off when ran through water, the first place I would go is my intake seals. Air filter connection and connections to the cylinder. It sounds like to me that you are getting too much air and the motor cannot compensate for the increase in volume since the leak is after your sensors. The heat of the motor and water exposure would aggregate this issue. But like I said, maybe I missed something but I would check all the connection points of the intake and any areas air could leak in before spending money on electronics.
crasher813
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7/9/2015 5:40am
Huh, should have read farther down in your post before I commented. Oh well... air leak in a seal...
mxtech1
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7/9/2015 7:10am
As these four strokes keep getting more complex, most local mechanics at shops are going to become less competent and it will be easily evident.

Most dealerships do not send any of their mechanics out for training. It is my opinion that we are now at the point with fuel injection and electronics that dealerships need to have mechanics certified by the OEM through service training. Car dealerships do this with most of their mechanics, and TYPICALLY, they have much better mechanics who can diagnose and troubleshoot problems.

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