2014 crf450r won't start

dirtslinger
Edited Date/Time 9/7/2018 5:59am
hi, this is my first post iv been working on my 2014 crf450r for months now with only one time getting it started for a few seconds with header off and spraying quick start down the throttle body. i bought this bike a year ago blown up and have replaced almost everything in this bike, just recently noticed my fuel injector wasn't spraying while in the throttle body but it sprays when i take it out and hang it off the side of the bike has anyone else experienced this?
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charley586 4/9/2016 7:20am
4/9/2016 7:20am
too bad I had a complete 2014 engine for sale (cheap for you with the CAD$ vs US$ exchange rate).
Stupid question but did you check the idle adjustement? On the 2012 the service manual was misleading.

How do you know that your injector doesn't work when in the throttle body?

Is your timing correct? Sure it's not 180degree off? Could be possible and it could start but run really poorly.
dirtslinger 4/9/2016 11:42am
4/9/2016 11:42am
charley586 wrote:
too bad I had a complete 2014 engine for sale (cheap for you with the CAD$ vs US$ exchange rate). Stupid question but did you check...
too bad I had a complete 2014 engine for sale (cheap for you with the CAD$ vs US$ exchange rate).
Stupid question but did you check the idle adjustement? On the 2012 the service manual was misleading.

How do you know that your injector doesn't work when in the throttle body?

Is your timing correct? Sure it's not 180degree off? Could be possible and it could start but run really poorly.
i only bought the cylinder head for the engine and rest electrical crank sensors alternator/stator rectifier condenser and battery harness, iv been reading up the tps sensor will cause hard starts or no starts, gonna check that out sometime soon, does anyone know the volt readings for the 2014? i stuck my phone in the throttle body and took a video too me it doesn't seem like its spraying into the cylinder. I'm too familiar with the idle adjustment on these bikes iv been turning the yellow knob both ways with no signs of improvement. I'm almost %100 sure i have it timed right iv checked like 5 times, iv worked on 2011-2013 kxf 250-450 doing complete engine rebuilds with no problems afterwards. i have a compression tester coming monday too check that but I'm pretty sure it has good compression its just as hard if not harder to kick than my buddies kxf 450 an yzf 450. iv also hooked up the battery harness to the bike to check for codes and nothing comes up on the handle bars. i have a new fuel pump and injector coming to see if that fixes anythings.
charley586 4/9/2016 7:03pm
4/9/2016 7:03pm
You can check the pump by pluging a 12v batterie correctly to the connector. You gonna hear a litte noise from the pump.
FGR01
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FGR01 4/9/2016 8:02pm
4/9/2016 8:02pm
Pretty sure the pump normally operates on 5V so I'd be careful connecting 12V directly to it.

The Shop

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dirtslinger 4/10/2016 4:14am
4/10/2016 4:14am
charley586 wrote:
You can check the pump by pluging a 12v batterie correctly to the connector. You gonna hear a litte noise from the pump.
yea, i have the special tool that hooks up to the harness and hooks up to a battery that has the ecm selector switch and fuel pump, the fuel pump works, just not as good as flow as what the manual says so i have a new pump on it wayy with a new injector. I'm leaning more towards the tps sensor now since its still taking me 20- 100 kicks to get it to start with quick start spray i also have to play with the throttle to get it to try to fire.
dirtslinger 4/10/2016 11:06am
4/10/2016 11:06am
i have an update if anyone else has any info feel free to let me know what you think. got my bike started today but could only get it started with the exhaust off won't idle and runs shitty through rpm also won't start unless throttle is about half way could it be tps? fuel pump weak or injector?
gristle568
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gristle568 10/8/2016 8:24am
10/8/2016 8:24am
I had a friend that had his cam gear spin on the cam throwing it out of time. They spent a lot of time trying to get it running before realizing what happened, just something to check.
ferg722
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ferg722 10/8/2016 10:36am
10/8/2016 10:36am
Betcha a dollar it's outta time.
Paw Paw
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Paw Paw 10/8/2016 2:24pm
10/8/2016 2:24pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2016 2:25pm
You did not spell out what was replaced in the engine....
Idle not being set correctly
Out of time
Dirty fuel filter
Bad fuel pump
Dirty injector
TPS issue
Worn timing chain
Valve seating or clearance issues

Any of these can cause your issues. I am betting it's a fuel supply issue.

Paw Paw
dirtslinger 10/8/2016 3:14pm
10/8/2016 3:14pm
gristle568 wrote:
I had a friend that had his cam gear spin on the cam throwing it out of time. They spent a lot of time trying to...
I had a friend that had his cam gear spin on the cam throwing it out of time. They spent a lot of time trying to get it running before realizing what happened, just something to check.
ill check the timing again tmr and post pics, everything seems to be good the lobes facing towards the back and how would i know if the cam gear spun?
dirtslinger 10/8/2016 3:28pm
10/8/2016 3:28pm
Paw Paw wrote:
You did not spell out what was replaced in the engine.... Idle not being set correctly Out of time Dirty fuel filter Bad fuel pump Dirty...
You did not spell out what was replaced in the engine....
Idle not being set correctly
Out of time
Dirty fuel filter
Bad fuel pump
Dirty injector
TPS issue
Worn timing chain
Valve seating or clearance issues

Any of these can cause your issues. I am betting it's a fuel supply issue.

Paw Paw
i have replaced piston rings, jug, cylinder head, did a leak down test and all valves are in spec when i time it. iv also replaced spark plug wiring harness, condenser, rectifier, alternator and ckps, iv checked the crank for and damage but it's solid. iv only had the bike start a few times with the header off and i had to spray starting fluid through the carb and play with the throttle than once it started it ran like crap through the rpms and didn't seem like it wanted to idle, would running with no exhaust cause that? but i can't get it started with the exhaust on. i took the decomp mechanism off the cam as well to help with compression to see if it would help and still nothing just stumbles every once in a blue moon and backfires. iv had the ecu run a 2013 so I think its safe to say thats not my problem, i have a new fuel pump and injector I'm gonna put in and see if it helps. iv also noticed the mil light doesn't blink when I'm kicking it, iv had it blink a few times before when i was kicking it with the header off to get it started, iv disconnected the kill switch to and tried starting it and still nothing, iv tried the idle knob in every position possible but didn't help. would a cam chain really cause it not to start?i thought that was more so the ticking in the top end. Thanks for the help
Rockinar
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Rockinar 10/8/2016 6:37pm
10/8/2016 6:37pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2016 6:40pm
dirtslinger wrote:
In need of some help does anyone have any advice?
Take a step back to basics and think.

You need three things to make it start. Air, Fuel, Ignition.

One of those it's not getting. you should be able to get it to start by process of elimination.


If it started when you sprayed starter fluid in it, I'd say its a fuel issue. I bet its something simple you are overlooking in the frustration.
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Paw Paw 10/8/2016 7:31pm
10/8/2016 7:31pm
Yes a bad cam chain will cause a lot of starting issues. I still think it's a fuel starvation issue.
Have you checked the exhaust system for internal damage?

Paw Paw
dirtslinger 10/9/2016 7:49am
10/9/2016 7:49am
dirtslinger wrote:
In need of some help does anyone have any advice?
Rockinar wrote:
Take a step back to basics and think. You need three things to make it start. Air, Fuel, Ignition. One of those it's not getting. you...
Take a step back to basics and think.

You need three things to make it start. Air, Fuel, Ignition.

One of those it's not getting. you should be able to get it to start by process of elimination.


If it started when you sprayed starter fluid in it, I'd say its a fuel issue. I bet its something simple you are overlooking in the frustration.
yea i never forget the basics of what makes an engine start/ run, iv taken the fuel injector out and kicked it while it was connected to the tank and it seemed to spray a good amount of fuel so i assumed it was good, got good spark, and i would assume I'm getting air, i have 120 psi compression with the decamp mechanism off. thats why i was thinking it might be the tps iv read and watched a youtube video about it how they won't start if there to far off the factory spec. but can't find the tool you need to do it iv went through the manual and replaced almost everything except the fuel injector and pump due to me taking it out and checking if it had a good spray but might just through them in to see what happens
dirtslinger 10/9/2016 7:56am
10/9/2016 7:56am
Paw Paw wrote:
Yes a bad cam chain will cause a lot of starting issues. I still think it's a fuel starvation issue. Have you checked the exhaust system...
Yes a bad cam chain will cause a lot of starting issues. I still think it's a fuel starvation issue.
Have you checked the exhaust system for internal damage?

Paw Paw
as long as it has good tension on the chain i think it shouldn't be much of a problem, but i might buy one just to see. i have replaced almost everything in the top end iv done leak down tests and everything. I'm gonna check everything all over again
yz133rider
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yz133rider 10/9/2016 8:08am
10/9/2016 8:08am
First I'd say stop starting it without an exhaust on. Second slow down,don't assume anything and one by one eliminate all the suggestions already listed.
dirtslinger 5/5/2017 3:28pm
5/5/2017 3:28pm
yz133rider wrote:
First I'd say stop starting it without an exhaust on. Second slow down,don't assume anything and one by one eliminate all the suggestions already listed.
what could happening with it running with no exhaust? iv been tinkering with this thing for far to long now, everything is pretty much new except bottom end, i have new valves i might put in to eliminate a leak, i re timed it which i feel is retarded one tooth and it runs clean through the rams with no exhaust but hesitates to start after about 20 kicks with just the header on and nothing with full exhaust, plug was black and seemed to rich with the header off when it actually ran and just a tad damp with exhaust on. i had decompressor off and had 160 psi of compression and about 90 with the auto decompressor on, do you know what the standard idle knob setting is? or anybody? iv tried literally everything

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jaredkeller96
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jaredkeller96 5/5/2017 6:04pm
5/5/2017 6:04pm
My 11 would start with a broken TPS. Have you tried a new regulator? It wouldn't start with my vortex like that but it'd run with the stock ecu
dirtslinger 5/6/2017 3:24am
5/6/2017 3:24am
jaredkeller96 wrote:
My 11 would start with a broken TPS. Have you tried a new regulator? It wouldn't start with my vortex like that but it'd run with...
My 11 would start with a broken TPS. Have you tried a new regulator? It wouldn't start with my vortex like that but it'd run with the stock ecu
no way i wish mine wasn't so stubborn, i have all brand new electrical parts i spent over 3000 in parts and nothings changed since the day i got it, only things i haven't done yet i could try is new valves or messing with the tips, still not sure where the idle knob should be iv tried all different positions
jaredkeller96
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jaredkeller96 5/6/2017 10:21am
5/6/2017 10:21am
Try a new TPS you can cross reference the part number and find them online without buying whole TB
dirtslinger 5/6/2017 11:58am
5/6/2017 11:58am Edited Date/Time 5/6/2017 12:00pm
jaredkeller96 wrote:
Try a new TPS you can cross reference the part number and find them online without buying whole TB
i was hoping not to do that, already spent too much money on this. can anyone tell me why the bike will run with the exhaust off but not with it on? i just put new exhaust valves in it this morning it made the compression a bit better but nothing has changed with starting also when i have it timed to how the manual says it runs like crap and doesn't want to rev out when i did run it with the exhaust off, i retarded the timing one tooth (aligned it with the firing mark on the left side) and it seems to run better, but yet still won't run with the exhaust on also the plug was a little black like its getting to much fuel? not the first bike iv worked on so I'm kinda dumb founded.does anyone have pics of there timing? tips voltage setting? also i tried putting some fuel in the spark plug hole (before i did the valves) and when i took the pipe off there was a bunch of fuel in it, spark doesn't seem too strong might do some voltage and resistance testing but didn't think i would have too since everything is brand new..
mecanicx806 5/6/2017 12:33pm
5/6/2017 12:33pm
Scan it for codes. Simple procedure using a battery. The MAP and TPS can get switched and it will destroy the MAP sensor. Make sure blue connector is on the TPS. If you think you swapped them previously the. Get a MAP sensor.
dirtslinger 5/6/2017 1:52pm
5/6/2017 1:52pm
mecanicx806 wrote:
Scan it for codes. Simple procedure using a battery. The MAP and TPS can get switched and it will destroy the MAP sensor. Make sure blue...
Scan it for codes. Simple procedure using a battery. The MAP and TPS can get switched and it will destroy the MAP sensor. Make sure blue connector is on the TPS. If you think you swapped them previously the. Get a MAP sensor.
i have done that, also when i start it with out the exhaust on no codes come up on the mil light, everything works and the bike runs like new with the exhaust off and the timing retarded one tooth, did just notice i need a new head gasket as mine is causing bubble in the rad that wouldn't cause it not to run with the exhaust on but run with out it would it?
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 5/6/2017 3:46pm
5/6/2017 3:46pm
That 120 compression number with the auto decompression off is just way too low.
When you out in the new exhaust valves, did you cut the seats?
99 times out of 100 the intake valves are the issue. The exhaust valves normally wear the valve guides out before they go bad.


Paw Paw
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kzizok 5/6/2017 6:40pm
5/6/2017 6:40pm
Without header could possibly change the mixture and perhaps pressure. Have you thoroughly checked the exhaust system? Is it totally clear from end to end? I know this is basic, but what about your air filter? No rag in the box? I know way less than Paw Paw, just trying to think of other possibilities.
dirtslinger 5/8/2017 1:04pm
5/8/2017 1:04pm
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
That 120 compression number with the auto decompression off is just way too low. When you out in the new exhaust valves, did you cut the...
That 120 compression number with the auto decompression off is just way too low.
When you out in the new exhaust valves, did you cut the seats?
99 times out of 100 the intake valves are the issue. The exhaust valves normally wear the valve guides out before they go bad.


Paw Paw
no it had upwards of 160 psi with the auto decompressor off. the cylinder head is new, are they not cut from factory? i just lapped in the new ones and they have a nice seal and increased my compression.yea i usually never have to change the exhaust valves but i bought the bike blown up, i am almost thinking tips now
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Hondas4Life3 5/8/2017 1:53pm
5/8/2017 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2017 1:57pm
It will not run properly without the exhaust at probably won't idle or start. Put a new exhaust gasket on there too. Starting fluid in a fresh motor is a bad idea
Polishhammer 5/11/2017 11:40am
5/11/2017 11:40am
If the cam gear has spun on the shaft I have an almost new take out cam from a 2013 ill sell for $50.
I also have a head with13 hrs ill sell for $200 from a 13.
dirtslinger 5/11/2017 2:57pm
5/11/2017 2:57pm
Polishhammer wrote:
If the cam gear has spun on the shaft I have an almost new take out cam from a 2013 ill sell for $50. I also...
If the cam gear has spun on the shaft I have an almost new take out cam from a 2013 ill sell for $50.
I also have a head with13 hrs ill sell for $200 from a 13.
thats what i was just thinking as well i just didn't have a new one to compare it too, i might buy that cam off you do you have pics?

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