WHAT OIL AND RATIO ARE YOU RUNNING IN YOUR AIR COOLED 2 STROKE

wfoyz250
Posts
410
Joined
1/19/2011
Location
Spring, TX US
11/5/2018 4:49am
wfoyz250 wrote:
Let me add to the topic that using race fuel with LEAD will also prolong ring, piston and cylinder life, over unleaded fuel. I run a...
Let me add to the topic that using race fuel with LEAD will also prolong ring, piston and cylinder life, over unleaded fuel. I run a 50/50 mix of pump gas & VP C12 with yamalube R at 32:1. I raced 4 years with 12 events a year on one set of rings and piston on '79 YZ250. Plugs insulators are light brown as well as the piston crown. Jetting is spot-on. Even though the engine still performed well, here of late I replaced rings because bike was getting hard to start. Worn rings will decrease vacuum signal to draw fuel flow through the carb and into the combustion chamber, hence starting problems.
barnett468 wrote:
"Let me add to the topic that using race fuel with LEAD will also prolong ring, piston and cylinder life, over unleaded fuel." I have never...
"Let me add to the topic that using race fuel with LEAD will also prolong ring, piston and cylinder life, over unleaded fuel."

I have never seen a scientific test that showed this. If you have, please post it.
Scientific proof? I personally don't need it. What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such. It was used back in the day to prevent valve & seat depression issues. Hardened seats were the fix when LEAD was phased out. Given that form of "scientific proof", i'll trade a little more reliability and expense in race fuel, over the higher expense of an entire top-end replacement. Whatever the opinions might be, it works for me and could work for others.
1
barnett468
Posts
1250
Joined
7/19/2018
Location
Wildomar, CA US
11/5/2018 7:38am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2018 7:42am
wfoyz250 wrote:
Scientific proof? I personally don't need it. What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such. It was used back in the day...
Scientific proof? I personally don't need it. What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such. It was used back in the day to prevent valve & seat depression issues. Hardened seats were the fix when LEAD was phased out. Given that form of "scientific proof", i'll trade a little more reliability and expense in race fuel, over the higher expense of an entire top-end replacement. Whatever the opinions might be, it works for me and could work for others.
" What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such."

No it is not and you will not find any scientific tests stating that it is.


" It was used back in the day to prevent valve & seat depression issues."

No it was not, and the correct word is "recession", not "depression". It's sole purpose was to reduce knock/pinging etc, however, in old school engines, it was determined that micro welding of the valves to the valve seats, which reduced valve and valve seat wear primarily on the exhaust valves and exhaust valve seats, was greatly reduced, so some people simply assumed or theorized etc, that the TEL was also lubricating the valves, however, in general, the most recent and prominent theory is that the micro welding was reduced because the lead altered the flame speed in such a way that it reduced the heat in the combustion process, and this theory is reinforced by several facts.


A couple simple tests you can do to determine if TEL is a lubricant is simply use it instead of oil to mix with the gas then ride your bike and see how long it runs, or you can put it in your bikes transmission or use it instead of oil in your cars engine.





barnett468
Posts
1250
Joined
7/19/2018
Location
Wildomar, CA US
11/6/2018 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2018 4:09pm
ok, so i tested straight ms109 today with 36.1 maxima k2, and it has better throttle response and revs so far that it won't friggen shift at wot, lol.

that stuff smells like crap and i could occasionally smell it while i was riding and nearly passed out, soooo, i am switching back 91 e10 and 25% street blaze for now.

bottom line regarding the fuel test is, if you want more hp from your fuel. ms109 will give it to you but in my case, it's not worth the toxic stench. also, it has MTBE so try not to get any on you or breathe the fumes.

FreshTopEnd
Posts
12476
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Fantasy
4254th
11/6/2018 4:18pm
wfoyz250 wrote:
Scientific proof? I personally don't need it. What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such. It was used back in the day...
Scientific proof? I personally don't need it. What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such. It was used back in the day to prevent valve & seat depression issues. Hardened seats were the fix when LEAD was phased out. Given that form of "scientific proof", i'll trade a little more reliability and expense in race fuel, over the higher expense of an entire top-end replacement. Whatever the opinions might be, it works for me and could work for others.
barnett468 wrote:
" What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such." No it is not and you will not find any scientific tests stating...
" What I do know is that LEAD is a "lubricant" of such."

No it is not and you will not find any scientific tests stating that it is.


" It was used back in the day to prevent valve & seat depression issues."

No it was not, and the correct word is "recession", not "depression". It's sole purpose was to reduce knock/pinging etc, however, in old school engines, it was determined that micro welding of the valves to the valve seats, which reduced valve and valve seat wear primarily on the exhaust valves and exhaust valve seats, was greatly reduced, so some people simply assumed or theorized etc, that the TEL was also lubricating the valves, however, in general, the most recent and prominent theory is that the micro welding was reduced because the lead altered the flame speed in such a way that it reduced the heat in the combustion process, and this theory is reinforced by several facts.


A couple simple tests you can do to determine if TEL is a lubricant is simply use it instead of oil to mix with the gas then ride your bike and see how long it runs, or you can put it in your bikes transmission or use it instead of oil in your cars engine.





Bingo. Lead primarily was a cheap means of stabilizing fuel burn to rate higher octane number.

The Shop

barnett468
Posts
1250
Joined
7/19/2018
Location
Wildomar, CA US
11/7/2018 6:33pm
wfoyz250 wrote:
BINGO!! "Top-end lubrication. Case Closed.
http://www.39olds.com/lubrication.htm
ummm...BINGO!! They are wrong.

The link below is just one of many papers written about lead and TEL. It was written by JB Calvert who was a professor of mathematics, physics, and engineering. If you want to ask him why he states that lead/TEL does not lubricate the valves, you may be able to reach him thru the contact info below.

jcalvert@du.edu

https://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/phys/lead.htm

"Some people thought the lead lubricated the valves and was necessary for the engine, but this is false."
barnett468
Posts
1250
Joined
7/19/2018
Location
Wildomar, CA US
11/7/2018 6:36pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2018 9:00am
wfoyz250 wrote:
BINGO!! "Top-end lubrication. Case Closed.
http://www.39olds.com/lubrication.htm
barnett468 wrote:
ummm...BINGO!! They are wrong. The link below is just one of many papers written about lead and TEL. It was written by JB Calvert who was...
ummm...BINGO!! They are wrong.

The link below is just one of many papers written about lead and TEL. It was written by JB Calvert who was a professor of mathematics, physics, and engineering. If you want to ask him why he states that lead/TEL does not lubricate the valves, you may be able to reach him thru the contact info below.

jcalvert@du.edu

https://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/phys/lead.htm

"Some people thought the lead lubricated the valves and was necessary for the engine, but this is false."
"It was added to the fuel so that as the fuel was burned in the cylinder, the molten lead would coat the valves, rings and cylinder walls with a flash coating." WRONG!

"Auto manufacturers started producing valves and rings out of harder alloys to reduce wear and to make them last longer." WRONG!

"What about all of the vintage cars that were made prior to the time that the valves, etc. were made of harder alloys. Lets say 1970 and older. Without the lubricating qualities of lead, these engines will experience premature valve wear due to increased heat and friction in the upper cylinder." WRONG!


Oh...lookie here...he just so happens to be selling a fuel additive.

"In producing our GSL-4 gasoline additive, we add a polymer lubricant to the blend. Because this lubricant has a high flash point it coats the valves and cylinder with a light coating, thus maintaining lubricaton to the top end of the engine. This reduces friction between the moving metal parts."


PS - One major rule in marketing is, if one wants to at least "appear" to be intelligent, they should spell properly in their ads.

"...thus maintaining lubricaton..."

Another one is, when making a statement or a claim etc about a subject, one should at least do some in depth research on it first so they don't sound like they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
.

Garand1
Posts
146
Joined
3/10/2016
Location
central, NY US
11/8/2018 6:33pm
I run SkiDoo/SeaDoo/BRP XPS mineral(non synth) & Full Synthetic mixed 50/50(there was a Semi-Synthetic a few yesrs ago but they discontinued it), So I make my own Semi synthetic now. I mix the oil at between 36 & 50:1 My Fuel is Av100LL.
Bikes - 1980 CanAm MX6 125 & 400, 1988 Kx250, 1995 ATK 250 Air cooled(just got this and only rode a few times). I also use the above in everything 2-stroke that i own, chainsaws, generator, premix snowmobiles, weed eaters, smokes very little once engines are warm/hot.

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