Too many classes..how to break up VMX?

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11/6/2017 3:56 PM

Personally I really like how they do it in England...its simple.

I feel that in the US we have over complicated and divided up VMX with too many classes and divisions that put too much emphasis on technology that doesn't really matter on the track.

You have a rear disc...you go in 1 class. You have the same year bike with a rear drum, you go in another class. A 1980 125 can't race an 81 because its water-cooled? And that matters in a 4 lap moto?

Everybody will never be happy. But I want to have a discussion on what you guy's think...whats the best way to break up 1980's and early 90's bikes for racing and keep it simple, keep it fair and not have a bajillion classes?

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11/6/2017 4:14 PM

Tell them that. Enough complaints might make a change.

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11/7/2017 2:45 PM

I have raced PNWVMX for a few years and they can for sure consolidate some of the classes. My suggestion would be everything pre-74 in vintage. Everything 75-81 be Evo. Everything 82-87 Revo 1 Everything 87-96 Revo 2. Now you have four classes with 3 skill levels novice, intermediate and expert.and women can run what you brung class or jump in with the men.13 motos before lunch and 13 after. you can now have 6 lap motos instead of 4 laps. Bigger gates and more fun. I ride Evo and Revo 2 and pretty much feel like pre-74 vintage is dieing due to the fact of the age of most of the guys who ride these classes. AHMRA is thinning because their core population is too old to ride anymore. Another suggestion at PNWVMX is a modern 2-stroke class where you can come race any 2 stroke to attract younger riders to the club ala 125 dream series on a smaller scale.

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11/7/2017 6:14 PM

But how will everyone get a trophy then?? LOL

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11/7/2017 11:07 PM

oldmotophan wrote:

I have raced PNWVMX for a few years and they can for sure consolidate some of the classes. My suggestion would be everything pre-74 in vintage. Everything 75-81 be Evo. Everything 82-87 Revo 1 Everything 87-96 Revo 2. Now you have four classes with 3 skill levels novice, intermediate and expert.and women can run what you brung class or jump in with the men.13 motos before lunch and 13 after. you can now have 6 lap motos instead of 4 laps. Bigger gates and more fun. I ride Evo and Revo 2 and pretty much feel like pre-74 vintage is dieing due to the fact of the age of most of the guys who ride these classes. AHMRA is thinning because their core population is too old to ride anymore. Another suggestion at PNWVMX is a modern 2-stroke class where you can come race any 2 stroke to attract younger riders to the club ala 125 dream series on a smaller scale.

Oh definitely. I appreciate the club and I've done some racing the last few years but I would rather see bigger classes and not so many divisions that are only slightly different. Personally when I decided to get into VMX a few years ago I built an 88 250 to ride the Revolution class (Pre 89), and a 95 for what they called the Sunset class (90 and up). But now how they break it up both of my bikes fit in the same class.

I think the REV 1 and 2 break up now is dumb. Too much emphasis on technology. I think it makes more sense to just pick a year...Pre 89 and Post 89 (like the rest of the world). The way it its now an 87 YZ fits in 1 and an 87 CR fits in 2 because of the rear disc. Shouldn't an 87 race against an 87? I would argue that we should group 80s bikes together and 90s bikes together...regardless of which way the fork faces or the brake on the rear wheel. An 84 KTM shouldn't race a 96 CR because of a terrible early version of upside down forks.

The Unlimited class is silly to me. They call it Unlimited but no Water cooling is allowed. Well every Japanese 125 and 250 was water-cooled in 81...so it's just a class for a few models of air cooled/ single shocked Open bikes. Why couldn't these bikes run with the Evo or Revo?

Another thing I would like to see is Evo 125 turned into something like they do at Farleigh Castle (Pre 83 125...again....just pick a year). I have an 82 125, I want to race it with 125's. I've had awesome battles with 79 and 80 125's on it at Washougal. Despite my big radiator...it gets around the track like a 125. It makes the most sense to me to race it in Evo 125. But I usually get DQ'd and I explain that I don't care or want to be scored...I just want to race 125's and not get put into a Revo class and on the track with 250s and 500s.

Sorry for the rant. I just want to hear others opinions. I think the 80s and 90s bikes are the future and I think we could do a better job organizing the classes. I like the idea of modern 2 strokes.

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11/8/2017 9:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/8/2017 9:05 AM

Great topic with good opinions.........I think a lot would agree with less classes. The technical aspects don't really mean a thing to me. Rider skill is the key regardless of the rear disc or water cooling or inverted forks etc. I've seen it for years....fast guys on old bikes.

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Larry Navarro - Spring,TX. Damm glad to meetcha!

11/8/2017 5:01 PM

It's tough. Bikes changed at an amazing speed between 74 and 84. There will always be a gray area on what is fair. My best argument is classify by years. If it was on the line competing back in the day then they can be on the line in vmx. Of course I say that I ride a 83 KX with a disc when other 83 bikes had drums.
I agree less classes but larger classes. We come up with a plan soon. Us old racers are ageing like WW2 Veterans. Soon there won't be old racers on old bikes to race.. We need to just be out there enjoying ourselves.

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11/8/2017 6:28 PM

Supposed to be "living in the past", you could race any '87 against '87 in '87. Doesn't make sense to seperate them in '17 just because the tech is different. KISS - keep it simple stupid....besides "big" events, how many people are actually showing up for local vintage races? Less/simpiler classes the better IMO.

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11/8/2017 9:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/8/2017 9:08 PM

Rocky739 wrote:

But how will everyone get a trophy then?? LOL

Even though I sense some sarcasm, there is a lot of truth to that statement. Reduce the amount of possible “winners” and you risk reducing participation.

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much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





11/9/2017 10:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/9/2017 10:12 AM

kzizok wrote:

Even though I sense some sarcasm, there is a lot of truth to that statement. Reduce the amount of possible “winners” and you risk reducing participation.

Usually always lots of sarcasm in my stuff smile and no different here. All well meaning and light heart'ed though
My biggest gripe with modern MX is all the classes, the 7-71/2 girls oil injection, chain drive purple bike class is cool but I get bored waiting all day to ride 3 laps of practice and one 4 lap moto and have the second moto cut to 3 laps because the the days running long.
I'd be happy with full 40 rider gates and long moto's (I'm a offroad guy at heart so I say bring on 45 min plus two laps races! and stop bulldozing the bumps down!)
I think seeing vintage bikes from different era's going head to head is cool, yea the bikes got better quick back then but lets be honest how many guys riding vintage are maximizing their bikes potential?? The answer is same as modern bikes... a handful of pro's
I've been taking my 84 Husky to dual sport rides this fall and its a hoot to pass guys on their 2017 KTM/Husky/Yamaha... with all fancy parts on it. My point being a rear disc brake or a power valve isn't going to make a difference to the vast majority of riders, Seems like there could be three bike groups (old short travel, early longer travel, 70's early 80's and then mid 80's to 4t era) Believe it that if a Jeff Stanton or Guy Cooper shows up they are gonna dust your doors no matter what mechanical advantage or disadvantage is in the equation!

I do say they are going to have to draw in more "young" riders to vintage... And if your like the majority your gonna want to run what you grew up on (80's bikes in my case at 45 years old). Sadly many of the older guys who race early 70's bikes are getting too old to race or passing on and I just don't see enough new guys coming into refill those classes. Plus the drain on the old bikes and the parts to keep them going has caused the investment to race a true vintage.

Lets hope they make it simple, run some long races on mostly natural, safe tracks... I'll be there in a heartbeat!! Brapp

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11/9/2017 10:18 AM

Excellently noted 739 ! Our local EVO series, which was once a top tier event in our area, went "modern" after it was handed off to another promoter. Too many kids classes and modern bike classes drove the VMX contingent away from the series.
The whole disc brake, power valve, etc is all nonsense. I've seen guys take an old "floater RM" and show the modern bike/rider how it's done.

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Larry Navarro - Spring,TX. Damm glad to meetcha!

11/9/2017 11:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/9/2017 11:32 AM

Right....too many classes. But I think the promotors do that to make money. They want everyone signing up for 2, 3 or 4 classes. You've got to do that to get a decent amount of riding time at a modern local MX race. I don't think thats an issue in Vintage, because the majority of the guys are older and bikes don't hold together awesome and most everyone is content with a 4 lap moto (and it's all for fun, right). I've been at races where the announcer is big dealing the number of rider entries....we've got 4 or 500 entries. But in all actuality there may only be a 150 total rider turnout.

After over 30 years of racing and being 38 years old my passion is building/riding 80's and 90s bikes now. I got burned out on Vet Racing on modern bikes.

It seems everyone around the country breaks classes up a little different and I just think there should be some uniformity. Even different races in the same area have variations of how they do their classes. I agree with 3 different machinery groups (and then break up by abilities and displacement...and maybe we only need 2 abilities, not 3 or 4). I'd rather have a 20 rider class than 3 classes with 6 guys...but I guess that doesn't work if everyone wants a trophy.
I was thinking of doing a local VMX race this weekend but saw that there was over 30 classes! I don't want to deal with that...and why would the promotor want the hassle of signing up/scoring/and giving awards to over 30 freaking classes?

Right now in the Northwest we have:
Vintage
Trans Am (this is supposed to be for the 75-77ish) bikes that don't classify as Vintage but feel uncompetitive in Evo)
Evo..is the Twinshock/air cooled YZ Monoshock class. No linkage or dual front brakes
Unlimited...is air-cooled bikes with Linkage...so basically only a few years of CR 480's and a few other models
Rev 1 is Water-cooled with rear drum brakes front disc is ok No USD forks
Rev 2 is Water-cooled with Disc Brakes and USD forks...

I think it's too much.

I do like that they put a cap at 96 to keep out Aluminum Frame bikes and 4 strokes. Some may not like that...but I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

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11/9/2017 11:37 AM

I thought this was crazy...
Photo

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11/9/2017 3:53 PM

wpark89 wrote:

Right....too many classes. But I think the promotors do that to make money. They want everyone signing up for 2, 3 or 4 classes. You've got to do that to get a decent amount of riding time at a modern local MX race. I don't think thats an issue in Vintage, because the majority of the guys are older and bikes don't hold together awesome and most everyone is content with a 4 lap moto (and it's all for fun, right). I've been at races where the announcer is big dealing the number of rider entries....we've got 4 or 500 entries. But in all actuality there may only be a 150 total rider turnout.

After over 30 years of racing and being 38 years old my passion is building/riding 80's and 90s bikes now. I got burned out on Vet Racing on modern bikes.

It seems everyone around the country breaks classes up a little different and I just think there should be some uniformity. Even different races in the same area have variations of how they do their classes. I agree with 3 different machinery groups (and then break up by abilities and displacement...and maybe we only need 2 abilities, not 3 or 4). I'd rather have a 20 rider class than 3 classes with 6 guys...but I guess that doesn't work if everyone wants a trophy.
I was thinking of doing a local VMX race this weekend but saw that there was over 30 classes! I don't want to deal with that...and why would the promotor want the hassle of signing up/scoring/and giving awards to over 30 freaking classes?

Right now in the Northwest we have:
Vintage
Trans Am (this is supposed to be for the 75-77ish) bikes that don't classify as Vintage but feel uncompetitive in Evo)
Evo..is the Twinshock/air cooled YZ Monoshock class. No linkage or dual front brakes
Unlimited...is air-cooled bikes with Linkage...so basically only a few years of CR 480's and a few other models
Rev 1 is Water-cooled with rear drum brakes front disc is ok No USD forks
Rev 2 is Water-cooled with Disc Brakes and USD forks...

I think it's too much.

I do like that they put a cap at 96 to keep out Aluminum Frame bikes and 4 strokes. Some may not like that...but I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

I'm thinking of doing a 1984 KTM 495 just to make their heads explode at sign up!!!!!

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11/10/2017 5:20 AM

Rocky739 wrote:

But how will everyone get a trophy then?? LOL

kzizok wrote:

Even though I sense some sarcasm, there is a lot of truth to that statement. Reduce the amount of possible “winners” and you risk reducing participation.

Rocky739 wrote:

Usually always lots of sarcasm in my stuff smile and no different here. All well meaning and light heart'ed though
My biggest gripe with modern MX is all the classes, the 7-71/2 girls oil injection, chain drive purple bike class is cool but I get bored waiting all day to ride 3 laps of practice and one 4 lap moto and have the second moto cut to 3 laps because the the days running long.
I'd be happy with full 40 rider gates and long moto's (I'm a offroad guy at heart so I say bring on 45 min plus two laps races! and stop bulldozing the bumps down!)
I think seeing vintage bikes from different era's going head to head is cool, yea the bikes got better quick back then but lets be honest how many guys riding vintage are maximizing their bikes potential?? The answer is same as modern bikes... a handful of pro's
I've been taking my 84 Husky to dual sport rides this fall and its a hoot to pass guys on their 2017 KTM/Husky/Yamaha... with all fancy parts on it. My point being a rear disc brake or a power valve isn't going to make a difference to the vast majority of riders, Seems like there could be three bike groups (old short travel, early longer travel, 70's early 80's and then mid 80's to 4t era) Believe it that if a Jeff Stanton or Guy Cooper shows up they are gonna dust your doors no matter what mechanical advantage or disadvantage is in the equation!

I do say they are going to have to draw in more "young" riders to vintage... And if your like the majority your gonna want to run what you grew up on (80's bikes in my case at 45 years old). Sadly many of the older guys who race early 70's bikes are getting too old to race or passing on and I just don't see enough new guys coming into refill those classes. Plus the drain on the old bikes and the parts to keep them going has caused the investment to race a true vintage.

Lets hope they make it simple, run some long races on mostly natural, safe tracks... I'll be there in a heartbeat!! Brapp

Agreed!

|

much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





11/10/2017 8:00 AM

Rocky739 wrote:

But how will everyone get a trophy then?? LOL

Exactly and that right there is where the problem lies. There are too many people that won't go race if they can't "win" a trophy and unfortuately without all those people racing wont get the numbers. It a vicious circle.

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11/15/2017 9:26 PM

I am part of a group looking to start a vintage dirtbike club in British Columbia (Vancouver) Canada here in the next year or so. We would like to start a club with some future moto and maybe some offroad racing. We have some interest on our facebook group but it seems that the strongest interest is for the later bikes. The oldest interest I am seeing is the last of the twin shock air cooled bikes with the bulk of the interest in the 80s machines. I like the sound of the classes the UK groups seem to have with twinshock, evo and super evo. Our numbers will be small so we will have to keep classes to a minimum. It needs to be fun and we just need to get people out to enjoy the classic machines. We will see where it goes but it seems to me that there are too many classes in many of the groups that I see info on and there is also too much focus on the older machines. A little more focus on the newer stuff will get some younger crowds and more numbers. That is what I will do my best to include as we try to put something together.
Greg

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11/16/2017 7:05 AM

avmechanic wrote:

I am part of a group looking to start a vintage dirtbike club in British Columbia (Vancouver) Canada here in the next year or so. We would like to start a club with some future moto and maybe some offroad racing. We have some interest on our facebook group but it seems that the strongest interest is for the later bikes. The oldest interest I am seeing is the last of the twin shock air cooled bikes with the bulk of the interest in the 80s machines. I like the sound of the classes the UK groups seem to have with twinshock, evo and super evo. Our numbers will be small so we will have to keep classes to a minimum. It needs to be fun and we just need to get people out to enjoy the classic machines. We will see where it goes but it seems to me that there are too many classes in many of the groups that I see info on and there is also too much focus on the older machines. A little more focus on the newer stuff will get some younger crowds and more numbers. That is what I will do my best to include as we try to put something together.
Greg

Ha, three bike groups, old, really old, and frickin ancient! Want a trophy?? GO FASTER

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12/16/2017 9:53 AM

Yes there is a pretty lively post in PMWVMX Facebook about ideas for changes. My thoughts: open Unlimited to 125 and 250, consolidate all of the 250 and Open classes, and maybe even look at having two skill divisions instead of three. Age classes for Revolution could be considered at some point as well. Some way for the Rev 2 guys to get in two classes.

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12/16/2017 11:24 AM

Thanks Mark. I think the input has been great and most seem to be on the same page. I don't know what the clubs reaction will be. I originally tried to post on their page to start this debate but my post was deleted or not allowed. Whatever the reason; it never showed up, so I started this thread on vital instead. Then Grant got that discussion going and it's been great. I think there are too many sensible ideas to not consider making changes.

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12/16/2017 4:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/16/2017 4:30 PM

Rocky739 wrote:

Usually always lots of sarcasm in my stuff smile and no different here. All well meaning and light heart'ed though
My biggest gripe with modern MX is all the classes, the 7-71/2 girls oil injection, chain drive purple bike class is cool but I get bored waiting all day to ride 3 laps of practice and one 4 lap moto and have the second moto cut to 3 laps because the the days running long.
I'd be happy with full 40 rider gates and long moto's (I'm a offroad guy at heart so I say bring on 45 min plus two laps races! and stop bulldozing the bumps down!)
I think seeing vintage bikes from different era's going head to head is cool, yea the bikes got better quick back then but lets be honest how many guys riding vintage are maximizing their bikes potential?? The answer is same as modern bikes... a handful of pro's
I've been taking my 84 Husky to dual sport rides this fall and its a hoot to pass guys on their 2017 KTM/Husky/Yamaha... with all fancy parts on it. My point being a rear disc brake or a power valve isn't going to make a difference to the vast majority of riders, Seems like there could be three bike groups (old short travel, early longer travel, 70's early 80's and then mid 80's to 4t era) Believe it that if a Jeff Stanton or Guy Cooper shows up they are gonna dust your doors no matter what mechanical advantage or disadvantage is in the equation!

I do say they are going to have to draw in more "young" riders to vintage... And if your like the majority your gonna want to run what you grew up on (80's bikes in my case at 45 years old). Sadly many of the older guys who race early 70's bikes are getting too old to race or passing on and I just don't see enough new guys coming into refill those classes. Plus the drain on the old bikes and the parts to keep them going has caused the investment to race a true vintage.

Lets hope they make it simple, run some long races on mostly natural, safe tracks... I'll be there in a heartbeat!! Brapp

I quoted the wrong post and cant edit it, I apologize

Unless I had a balls out to the finish battle I feel silly collecting a trophy or plaque. or answer the question at work on Monday morning how I did yesterday at my race and with a clear conscious say I got 2nd place when there were 3 riders on my gate.

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12/17/2017 5:20 AM

Good thread here and one that has been an issue for me personally. I have ridden for 35 years and have an 86 YZ250 and a 96 RM250 and the class listing in AHRMA is just too confusing for me to bother. I think just sort it by decades and be done. I just want to ride with other like minded people. "racing" these older bikes isnt so much a priority for me. If I need some racing fix I'll take my 2018 to a district race. Just make the events fun to be part of with good people who enjoy riding their restored bike...hell...line us up...drop the gate...collect the results and then have a random raffle for the trophy...who cares? My glory days are behind me. I'm just happy to still be riding and getting that same feeling when I started out on a RM 80 or loading up the last bike me and my dad bought together. What more would I need?

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12/17/2017 4:28 PM

Thanks everyone for the discussion. I loved your post DAG! It seems we all agree...keep it simple, just pick a year. I started this thread in regards to how our group in the Northwest does it...but I know its similar around the country. This is going to be a long read...and some of it redundant to what I posted earlier. But this is the scenario I've worked on that I think would work. I'm going to throw it up here just because Vital is a busy place and it will be seen...


I believe there are 3 goals to this discussion. 1-To better break up the Revolution Classes (by year and cc). 2-To add classes that enable Revolution riders to sign up for more than one class (Age classes, similar to whats available to Evo riders). 3-To eliminate/absorb some of the current classes with low entries to make space for the new classes.

Regarding #1, Most believe that the previous Revolution (Pre 1989) and Sunset (1990-1996) structure was better than the current Rev1/Rev2 structure that is complicated and based on technology that doesn't matter on the track. It makes sense to group 1980s bikes togehter and 1990s bikes together. Currently a 1987 CR 250 would race Rev2 with a 1996 because of a rear disc. However, a 1987 YZ 250 would race Rev1 because of a rear drum. Shouldn't an '87 race an '87? Then a special exemption is made for a '86 KX (with rear disc) to be allowed in Rev 1? Does a 1985 KTM race Rev 2 because of a terrible-early version of upside down forks? If the bikes competed together back in the day despite different technologies (forks and brakes) they should also line up together today. It seems much easier to pick a year like the rest of the world (think Farleigh Castle) and draw a line (1989). There is also a great amount of interest in a Revolution 125 class. Most feel that it is fine to group 250/500s together but 125's should be seperate. Many current Rev riders have 125's they would like to bring and race (along with their 250 or 500) if the class struture allowed for it.

#2. The growing group of Revolution riders should be able to compete in more than 1 class. Adding a few Rev Age group classes could be a solution. It could be debated or researched, but with Rev being heavy with 30/40 year old riders it would not be necessary to have all the same age divisions that are available to the Evo riders (+40, +50, +60, +70). It could be just 2 groups like Under 40/Over 40 (or 45).

#3 Many of the current classes have very low entries at even the biggest events. Some current technology groups are very similar and could be consolidated. For example the Unlimited Group is supposed to target 1982-1984 bikes yet it restricts water cooling. By 1982 every 125 and 250 was water cooled! Essentially it's a small class with just a few models of bikes (YZ 490/CR 480) that fit.

So what's the solution? Here's mine.
Rev 1 is Pre 1989 with the following classes:
125 Expert and Novice
250/500 Expert and Novice


Rev 2 is 1990-1996 with
125 Expert and Novice
250/500 Expert and Novice

Plus combined Rev1/Rev 2 Age groups
Under 40 Expert and Novice
Over 40 Expert and Novice

This would allow riders to compete in their displacement class and an age class. It would be a total of 12 classes (which could easily be combined in motos so that it would be no more than 4 motos in the race day schedule!

Now...what gets eliminated?
There would immediately be no need for the current...
1 Rev 1 Beg/Nov
2 Rev 1 INT
3 Rev 1 EXP
4 Rev 2 Beg/Nov
5 Rev 2 INT
6 Rev 2 EXP

Unlimited gets dissolved into Rev 1 which would eliminate (looking at Boise 2017 Unlimited had only 3 riders Beg/Nov, 4 INT)
7 Unlimited Beg/Nov
8 Unlimited INT
9 Unlimited EXP

Trans Am gets dissoloved into Evo elimitating (Boise 2017, 1 rider in Trans Am Beg/Nov, only 2 in EXP)
10 Trans Am Beg/Nov (Trans Am could still be a Saturday Class on "Vintage" Day)
11 Trans Am INT
12 Trans am EXP

4 stroke Evo gets eliminated (Boise 2017, 1 Rider in Beg/Nov, 3 INT, 2 EXP. The 4 strokes can compete with 2 strokes like that had to in the past.
13 4 Stroke Evo Beg/Nov
14 4 Stroke Evo INT
15 4 Stroke Evo EXP

I've so far elimited 15 classes that could easily merge with others and created 12 new classes that are open to grow and be the future of VMX.
You could further eliminate 6 more classes by moving Evo to 2 skill classifications. Currently you combine the BEG/NOV. Why not combine INT/EXP? Looking again at Boise Results from this year in 250 EVO there were 10 INT and 4 EXP (Evo Open was similar). These could be combined to create one class of 14. This would allow for less 3 or 4 rider classes and still be a safe grouping on the track.

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12/18/2017 3:33 AM

Mr. Park, you Nailed it. But that's just me.
I have a 92 so I'm excluded from much. Ready to buy 89 graphics & say kiss my azz it's the same technology.
And yea id buy a 89 case w/vin, powdercoat the frame vin cuz its only cheating if you get caught.
I just wanna go out on a track, play, and have fun.

Only race i entered this year (1st one since 31 year layoff from MX. ya I'm 55) was 90's class, A,B,Nov in one gate drop. and there was only like 19 riders. So was a fun start! Small, but fun.
Still only 19. Supporting the theory on condensing.
MX is 90% rider. Isnt part of the fun goin out & mixing it up? Can you work thru the pack? Wheres the pack in 3 riders? Were a dying breed. After my absence, comming back & seeing the state of MX in USA in 2017 it's a dying sport. Makes me cry (not literally). I digress as they say.
Anyway, him or me,lap 5/6, in the heat, are battling, your/my water cooling, drum brake, means NOTHING.
Did you eat rite? Hydrate? How many hrs on your row machine this week?
You got Balls? Disc/Drum ( pik your own technology ) does NOT trump this reality.
Let all of us just go play together & have fun.
Sorry for the rant im tryin to rid the hangover of the pathetic state of the NFL & what is a catch.
Because I wasted 4 days of my life & 3 hrs Sun. on Stillers/Pats only to lose to 10,000 frames a sec. technology.
Hair of the dog baby and where's my MX. And not SX...........MX

Mr Park I nominate you to run VMX. Lets Go Play. Were old, clocks ticking smile
So is my screaming 125 and my row machine smile

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12/20/2017 10:15 AM

oldmotophan wrote:

I have raced PNWVMX for a few years and they can for sure consolidate some of the classes. My suggestion would be everything pre-74 in vintage. Everything 75-81 be Evo. Everything 82-87 Revo 1 Everything 87-96 Revo 2. Now you have four classes with 3 skill levels novice, intermediate and expert.and women can run what you brung class or jump in with the men.13 motos before lunch and 13 after. you can now have 6 lap motos instead of 4 laps. Bigger gates and more fun. I ride Evo and Revo 2 and pretty much feel like pre-74 vintage is dieing due to the fact of the age of most of the guys who ride these classes. AHMRA is thinning because their core population is too old to ride anymore. Another suggestion at PNWVMX is a modern 2-stroke class where you can come race any 2 stroke to attract younger riders to the club ala 125 dream series on a smaller scale.

I just started racing VMX with the AVDRA club in Phx/Tucson.

As a beginning Novice, I would finish at the back of the pack and get a 1st or 2nd place trophy for my class...kinda empty 'accomplishment'.

The more I race these events, I have done 6 races, the more I become convinced its more about rider ability than technology, (other than major suspension changes like 'low travel forks and twin shocks' vs 'long travel forks and shock'.) Even then, it takes a large difference in bikes to compensate for differences in rider ability.

That said, the 10 yr span for a class from 1980 to 1989 seems a bit broad to me...'81 CRs, YZs, and RMs racing against '89 CRs, YZs, and RMs?...It may have unintended consequences of fewer people putting the work into the early '80s bikes.

Breaking it up into classes from '75 to '81 and '82 to '87 and '87 to '96 like you described seems like a more palatable initial step. An unintended consequence may be more '81 CRs, KXs, and RMs showing up. The '81 YZs are pretty common, already.

To help attract new members, we have an Open Support class. You can bring a friend and they can ride whatever they want. But, our organizer always states that he wants a Vintage club and not a Vet/Modern club, so he limits that to one year, then you have to go buy a vintage/post-vintage bike.

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12/20/2017 10:24 AM

I've been 'racing' a '83 CR250R.
Last season, we had 125, 250, and Open classes. This season, it has been consolidated to 125 and Open classes. So, my 250 gets 'scored' against CR480s getting the hole shots.
It would be easy to complain and get frustrated when I get passed by a big bore, but then, when a guy on a 125 passes my 250, I'm reminded that MX races are won in the turns with rider technique, not in the straights with the most hp.

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12/20/2017 4:10 PM

Thanks for the input Sofiedog. Sounds like a pretty good system in AZ. We've just had Open cc classes for the more modern vintage bikes in the NW. But the classes got so big we've gotta figure out how to break them up. Guys like me want to be able to ride a 125 and 250...plus guys with 1 bike want a 2nd class to ride somehow. I think the club is close to coming up with a better system. It will never be perfect to everyone...

I agree with 81-89 being a broad group...but I don't know the solution. Most guys are building later 80s bikes anyway. It's probably a can of worms, but I'd argue that a 81/82 125 should race with a 79/80. But back to my original post, there's too much emphasis on the technology to break up classes. That's why I like the U.K. Classes I've seen that break it up pre 83 or pre 85.

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