Got it going again, Same issue

spidermonkey
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Edited Date/Time 6/7/2015 6:58pm
1984 kx 250, I got this last fall. It did run but wouldnt rev out. I found the cases were leaking and figured that was the issue, nope... It has new stator, coil, sleeved jug and piston, also a keihin carb. What should my jetting be with this carb? The previous owner rode the bike with this setup but i dont really dont know what else to check. Any help appreciated. THANKS....Kevin

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BigAl
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4/12/2015 7:12pm
You check pipe for obstructions?
spidermonkey
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4/12/2015 7:17pm
Yup, also trued crank, new bearings and seals. Seems to be coming on the main jet when it falls off, I will move the needle tomorrow and see what that does.
Matt Fisher
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4/12/2015 9:11pm
That year doesn't have a power valve, does it?

For jetting, try going up or down several sizes on the main to get an idea of where you're at. You aren't going to seize it from just a quick blast through 3rd gear to see if it cleans out and runs well.
BigAl
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4/13/2015 2:27pm
Is the coil "new" as in NOS

The Shop

spidermonkey
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4/13/2015 4:54pm
No power valves, Fox coil. Moved the needle to highest and lowest positions with no real change, ran worse rich.
MaxPower
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4/13/2015 5:13pm
Dont fret, you are right there about to find the problem. You changed all the big things like stator and carb. Just brainstorming, is the filter new? (I left a rag in my new 250f airbox, the first 3 times I rode it I wanted to burn it because it was so slow). Air vent for the gas cap clear? Maybe find stock carb jetting and make sure it wasn't switched. Someone slow owned that bike or it wouldn't be so nice when you found it, and could have loaded the thing full of oil,make sure the pipe and silencer is clear like Big Al said. People in Wisconsin have has cheese in thier exhaust. Is the coil you have new or just from another bike? I have a stock coil you could try. I really like that bike. The 84 KX were the best looking production bikes ever
spidermonkey
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4/13/2015 6:40pm
Thanks for the encouragement Max Power. I had weak spark with the stock coil, the fuel filter, gas cap are new and the silencer was repacked last fall. I took the pipe to work and media blasted it, stuck it in a IPA bath, the alcohol flowed right through. The motor passed a leak down test on the bench. I removed the carb and will tear into it shortly, I will just cross reference the jetting from a early keihin 250. I will post my jetting when i know what it is. Thanks...Kevin
BigAl
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4/13/2015 7:45pm
So you put the Keihin on it? Was it new?
spidermonkey
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4/13/2015 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2015 8:06pm
No, The previous owners parents bought it for him and took it in for service and ( put more money into it than it was worth) I assume the carb was done at that time. I pulled the carb tonight and found the float level was way off, I guess i missed it previously. It was shutting off way lean , or so I think. I will re install tomorrow test and reply. Thank you guys for all your help. I think at this point I have it figured out. Feeling kinda stupid for missing something so obvious, but shit happens.
MaxPower
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4/13/2015 8:44pm
What did you get a shock reserviour from? It looks good. Does the stock one have a bladder or a piston ? I had a trashed 250 shock I bought for the spring for my 125 and I saved the stock finned aluminum reserviour because it looked so cool
Matt Fisher
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4/14/2015 10:36am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2015 10:38am
Assuming it's not the float as that effects all circuits.

If it's not running properly when the throttle is opened all the way up, the needle is not the correct jet to be worrying about. That's the main jet. Go pick up 150, 160, 180 & 190 mains. Try them all and keep in mind while testing that the main jet is a factor from 3/4 throttle and up. Yes, all the jets overlap a bit, but you're just trying to get it to run decent, not fine tune it.
rallendude
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Adger, AL US
4/14/2015 10:56am
I've had two bikes do this due to needle jet issues. One was actually the venturi that the needle jet goes down in, the part the main screws into. It had a groove worn in the side of it. Bike ran great at idle when you first started it but as soon as you opened it up once, it all went to crap. Ran fine wide open though.

The other the little keeper that goes over top of the needle that holds it in place in the slide was missing. Bike started and idled fine but when you opened it up it went all rich and bogged like crazy from then on. The needle was hanging open even when the slide was closed.

Oh yeah, had a CR85 cause considerable problems too. Owner had pulled the carb and it wouldn't run right after that. There was a little top hat looking brass piece that went in the carb before the venturi for the main/needle. That top hat had fallen out and was missing. Had to buy a new carb to figure that one out.
PN27416
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4/14/2015 2:17pm
How about the reeds? If the bike has them?
spidermonkey
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Pardeeville, WI US
4/14/2015 5:36pm
Well i have good and bad news. I got home from work and re installed the carb, same issue, Its a PJ style carb with the choke/idle circuit. I played with that a little with no results. Swapped out the br9 for a b8 plug and holy shit for about 200 yards of pulling the wheel in second gear, then blah blah blah like it was a 4 stroke. OH SHIT DID I BLOW IT UP ? Changed the plugs back around and the same 4 stroke idle with no rev. Grabbed the comp tester and kicked it up to 165 got tired and figured good enough. So in between playing with the choke/idle and plug change it went from running bad to good to a different kind of bad. Any ideas?
spidermonkey
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4/14/2015 5:48pm
Oh and Max Power, Im pretty sure its the stock bladder resi. I just painted it gold.
Matt Fisher... I just thought i would play with the needle setting because it ran well for the pevious owner
PN27416.... New Boysen reeds
MaxPower
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4/14/2015 7:14pm
as to be the cdi. Last night when i read this i thought you changed it. Unless im missing it that its stock. Unless you switched an original bad stator for another bad stator it has to be the black box. Even if it were one of the other things you had changed like jetting or a coil, you would see some kind of difference. But it has the original problem every time.. maybe check the wires where they bend and go right into the black box. Perhaps something is cracked or dry rotted.
Matt Fisher
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4/14/2015 8:42pm
Oh and Max Power, Im pretty sure its the stock bladder resi. I just painted it gold. Matt Fisher... I just thought i would play with...
Oh and Max Power, Im pretty sure its the stock bladder resi. I just painted it gold.
Matt Fisher... I just thought i would play with the needle setting because it ran well for the pevious owner
PN27416.... New Boysen reeds
I misunderstood your original post to mean that the previous owner rode it in the current, crappy state and just dealt with it.

I agree with Max- electrical.
Hasletjoe
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4/15/2015 1:48pm
Spider, I am going to agree with Max Power. My guess is ignition and it may be as simple as timing. I chased a problem for way to long thinking carb and center case leaks. Was a stator I had swapped. Both looked "identical" but were from two different years.

On the bright side, I won the village idiot of the year award for my sufferings.

Try putting a timing light on it and check the timing. Make sure you can see the advance as you rev the beast.

Regards
BigAl
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4/15/2015 2:48pm
My Cagiva had a similar problem, seemed fine on the bottom but the more the rpm went up and by the time I hit 3rd gear or was WFO it would die. Ended up being the coil was bad
spidermonkey
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Pardeeville, WI US
4/15/2015 3:25pm
So i am in agreement on the CDI. The stator is new, I put the new coils on my old plate so i would have the timing marks. Swapped back to the old coil and it still has the same symptoms of yesterday evening. I made a small gamble on a (good) used CDI. So I will see what happens when it arrives on Saturday or Monday depending on the mail. Thanks again for all your help fellas.....Kevin. OH and Matt Fisher, the bike sat in a shed for seven years before i got it. (Ran good when parked) Yada yada
dynohut
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4/17/2015 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2015 7:55pm
Spidermonkey, If the crankcase bore and top end compression are good then its probably the electrics,
spidermonkey
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Pardeeville, WI US
5/22/2015 7:32pm
Well, N.O.S Stator and cdi from overseas, jetted down to a 160 main, cleaned everything and tried 3 differnt coils. SAME ISSUE. I have a new choke/ idle valve coming tommorow. Only thing i havent changed is the flywheel. Any other ideas? I am at a loss.
Hasletjoe
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5/22/2015 7:50pm
Spider, I just looked up the stock jets and it shows a 340 main and 27.5 pilot. Based on the 160, I think you are way too lean. But why is the question.
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/2

Have you ever put a timing light on the bike? It would eliminate the whole guessing game. Lining the marks is fine, but the timing light would tell you where it really is sparking. It also would allow you to see the advance is working properly.

Try to get a timing light on it and let us know what it shows.....

spidermonkey
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Pardeeville, WI US
5/22/2015 8:02pm
The carb is a newer keihin pj, and it is also smokey at idle and im blowing oily gunk out of the exhaust. I will check timing this week i guess. I have moved the stator to the advance mark with no change but i should really prob check it with the light.
MaxPower
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5/23/2015 4:40am
It has to be frustrating for you after all you have done. Dang, it's frustrating for me. I'm offering cheap advice to go spend money on a CDI and it wasn't the problem and I feel stupid. Sounds like you have done all there is to do. But it has to be something. Could the air filter somehow have gotten wierd from age? Did you change it. I like to install a freshie on old bikes just because i hate cleaning them. Maybe try pulling it and take a blast down the road. I would have bet my last dollar it was the stator or black box. If that's not it maybe try the old trick of running it in the dark to see if you can see an arc somewhere like you would on a old Ford Fairmont. We aren't looking for a cure for cancer here. It has to be something.
spidermonkey
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Pardeeville, WI US
6/1/2015 3:22pm
My flywheel magnets appear to shattered. Anybody have a a flywheel or a method of magnet replacement?
Kidkawie
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ქუთაისი GE
6/3/2015 1:47pm
You need to pressure test the engine to make sure it's sealed up before swapping out other parts. Also, keep some NEW plugs on hand while tuning and clean them out with brake clean if they get wet. Also, if that's an off-the-shelf Keihin, they require alot of tuning, maybe even a new slide, to work right. You might be better off using the stock carb if it comes down to the carb being the issue.

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