Custom machining an "obsolete/NLA" power valve?

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5/7/2014 8:27 AM

I'm in the early stages of restoring a thoroughly roached 1989 KX125. I have plenty of NOS parts including connecting rod, shift forks, footpegs, left/center power valve, and even some cases. Also have all new replica plastic, and a gas tank that is damn near perfect.

Last week I disassembled the stuck/frozen power valve assembly, and noticed that a PO broke the right side exhaust valve in an attempt to remove it. The tip of the valve is missing completely. I was able to free everything up with a week long soak in diesel followed by a two day soak with Kroil.

I spent the past week searching Ebay, Craigslist(search tempest), and every major parts dealer I could find. Kawasaki now shows the RH exhaust valve as obsolete and NLA. Several dealers ran the part number 12005-1114 through their dealer parts locator and came up with nothing. One dealer said they had a few of them as recent as March 2013. Many online stores show this part as available, but after ordering several and being told a week later that it is NLA, I'm finding that most of these sites are not using current data.

A seller on Ebay sold a NOS RH exhaust valve just one month ago - had no idea I'd need it and am kicking myself for not tearing the engine apart sooner to find what all it needed. I've messaged just about every ebay seller with used '89 KX125 parts asking if they happen to have the power valves. No luck there either. Bought a cylinder last week, but it didn't have the valves in it, and the seller couldn't find them.

The rest of the engine is in good condition. It will need replating and I plan to rebuild the crank with OEM parts (have NOS components). The frame is free of cracks. Have a NOS footpeg mount, and two new OEM footpegs. Radiator is in near perfect condition. Have replica 1989 KX125 graphics (two sets actually).

I'm eager to get this project done but the NLA right side power valve is turning out to be a huge headache.

TL;DR:
Has anyone had success getting a new power/exhaust valve machined locally?

Any other sources for used vintage NOS parts that I should know about?

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/7/2014 8:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/7/2014 8:40 AM

Try www.nos.se in Sweden and keep an eye on -bay, if that fails start calling every Kawasaki dealer in the country until you find one sitting on there shelve; I had to do this for a few parts off my 87 restore.

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125 Rider

5/7/2014 10:05 AM

Thanks for the Sweden website. They don't show one in stock, but I sent a message just in case. Also tried a dealer in Russia that showed on on the shelf, but that too was stale data.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/7/2014 10:14 AM

The pin on the side valves?

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04 KX125
94 KX250SM
75 Z1-900

5/7/2014 10:36 AM

Photo
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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/7/2014 10:44 AM

I fixed a 250 side valve like that, but the pin on the other end. I just used a 5 or 6mm bolt (forget the size), cut most of the threaded section off and ut the bolt head off so it was just a blank pin with like 5 threads. Drilled and tapped the powervalve and locktite the new pin in place.

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04 KX125
94 KX250SM
75 Z1-900

5/7/2014 10:46 AM

If you want to be anal, you could use aluminum rod and cut threads into it instead of a steel bolt.

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04 KX125
94 KX250SM
75 Z1-900

5/7/2014 2:49 PM

Think you could machine flat, counter bore hole, insert rod and braze???

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5/22/2014 5:54 PM

Went by a pretty well known machine shop in town. They referred me to a smaller specialty machine shop that deals in gears. $1200 for one custom machined part. If I order 10+ the price goes down to $400 each.

Quoted at $400 just to fix like the above posts mentioned. I don't have the right equipment to do it myself.

On a whim I ordered a 1989-1994 KDX200 RH EXHAUST VALVE (12005-1122, http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/kawasaki/KP-12005-1122.html). This bike shares the same KIPS resonator cover so I thought what the hell.. worth a shot.

Well that came in today. I compared it to my 1989 KX125 NOS LH EXHAUST VALVE (12005-1113, http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/kawasaki/KP-12005-1113.html ) to check length ect.

No dice.

Photo

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/22/2014 6:29 PM

Looks like it wouldn't be too hard to modify the KDX one to work as long as the "gear" OD is same. Since it's longer than the KX, just put in a lathe and start turning...

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5/22/2014 6:38 PM

yak651 wrote:

Looks like it wouldn't be too hard to modify the KDX one to work as long as the "gear" OD is same. Since it's longer than the KX, just put in a lathe and start turning...

valve opening on the 200 is much wider than the 125. wouldn't cut down like you're thinking.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/23/2014 1:05 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/23/2014 1:06 AM

Seems like nowadays we have the technology to replicate pieces like that pretty easily with laser scanners, 3D printers, and cnc machines. that would be a boon the the vmx world. I know it is being used more and more in the vintage aircraft world....maybe someone in that industry could help?

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5/23/2014 4:12 AM

Got a link to a machine shop in the south that does this sort of thing?

The gear shop I went to said the valve I brought (a NOS left side exhaust valve) is cast aluminum. They said that if I had a whole one I could get a die made and that would be much cheaper. But I'm back to square one.

If I had a pro rig to ensure I could precisely drill vertically down the center of the broken valve, I'd consider the repair kidKawie talks about above. I'm afriad I'd make a bigger mess if I tried cobbling something together with my old ShopSmith drill press. I'm not about to pay $400 to a machine shop (what I was quoted yesterday) to do that repair, knowing it could easily fail after install.

Guy on Ebay has some valves from a 1986 KX125. I asked him for diminsions but he wrote back and said that the valve part is smaller than on the 89 125. Obviously the 86 is steel and the 89 is delicate cast aluminum.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/23/2014 5:35 AM

There's one out there just keep looking

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5/23/2014 5:59 AM

I told you how to fix it for $0.00 dollars.

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04 KX125
94 KX250SM
75 Z1-900

5/23/2014 8:05 AM

If you're still looking to have one made, put up a request on Practical Machinist. I think the $1200 quote you got was a "I'm not interested" quote.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-resource/

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04 KX125
94 KX250SM
75 Z1-900

5/23/2014 10:00 AM

Kidkawie wrote:

If you're still looking to have one made, put up a request on Practical Machinist. I think the $1200 quote you got was a "I'm not interested" quote.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-resource/

Thanks for the link.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/23/2014 10:02 AM

Kidkawie wrote:

I told you how to fix it for $0.00 dollars.

Thanks for your suggestion earlier. I do not have a way to ensure that the hole I drill is precisely cut parallel to the length of the valve. Since these valves (even used broken ones) are so hard to come by I don't want to risk fucking the repair up. Only get one try.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/23/2014 10:23 AM

Chuck it up in a lathe. If you can't get anywhere just mail it to me.

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04 KX125
94 KX250SM
75 Z1-900

5/23/2014 8:17 PM

If you can help I'd be glad to pay for your time in beer + money. Can we exchange contact info privately? Spent the last 3 hours combing through craiglists across the south & east looking for a parts bike or cheap runner to cannibalize. Burned out.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/23/2014 8:50 PM

I don't know if this will help or not, but worth a try....they are in your area. I took an EAA TIG welding class @ the airport in Griffin, GA a few years ago.. The shop where the class took place does a lot of composite work but may have some contacts for machine shop type work.

Atlanta Aerospace Composites, Griffin, GA
770-467-9490

http://www.atlantaaero.com/index.html

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5/24/2014 3:33 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2014 3:33 AM

Sounds like another dead end but I will reach out to them on Monday.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/24/2014 4:13 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2014 4:17 AM

Not sure if helpful but here are some rough measurements of my NOS LH exhaust valve. It appears to be the same dimensions as the RH valve except for how the vale cutout is angled.

OA Length: 2.497

From top to bottom


pin width: .236 (about 6mm)
pin length: .601
gear width: .590 (gear tip to gear tip)... .570 laying flat against two gear tips
gear length: .380
gear pitch: .142 (not precise!)
shaft between gear and valve (variable thickness increases toward valve)
- thinner end by gear: .314
- thicker end by valve: .374
shaft length (between gear and valve): .387
valve width: .780
valve length: .912
bottom pin width: .237
bottom pin length: .259
OA Length: 2.497

Image of 12005-1114 ( RH EXHAUST VALVE )
Photo

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/24/2014 5:06 AM

You guys are missing a point about the cost to reproduce the part, or it was not separated in the bid to manufacture the
part

Tooling, and fixture costs, ( the cost added
for special cutting tools, part holding fixture's.) Each step of machining needs
a special cutting tool made, and the part
to be held so the cuts in the raw material
can be made perfectly
multiple steps, possibly multiple fixtures
if the part was being hand machined

Also the part could be made in a few steps
on a Twin spindle (Live tooling CNC) lathe
but then a few special cutting tools
would be needed( a person would have have to hand make the tooling) out of
solid carbide blanks( or hss) this takes
time!
And high dollar equip!
Even manual shop equip , tooling,
and qualified machinist costs money

So the small amount of $1200.00 is
nothing
The machinist alone labor would be
$600.00 min
Making a part like that is not special effects
press a button out pops a part affair

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5/24/2014 8:55 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2014 8:55 AM

Rob, nobody is saying that machinists aren't paid a fair wage for the skilled work they do. $1200 is a ridiculous amount for ME to pay for a CNC replacement. I'm saying it is crazy to spend that kind of money on an old bike that will barely sell for 1200 even when fully restored. I have almost that much in it right now and I still have to get powder coating, replating, crank rebuild, new plastic, ect, ect. Would never have bought this bike had I forseen the NLA powervalve issue. I can get almost everything else I need except that part. Wish Kawasaki had made them from steel like the center powervalve.

Even if I could find 10 other people who would contract/commit to buying a new RH valve.. chances are they (like me) couldn't justify spending $400 on that one part.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/24/2014 9:16 AM

I agree with KidKawie that I received a "I don't want to do it" quote, which everyone knows are quite a bit higher to discourage the business. The same shop probably averages 5 figures per job if not 6. So a chump like me walks in with a dinky part.. who has time to waste on that when they can make more charging $874,204.13 for some custom gear/shaft for a manufacturing facility or heavy equipment application.

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/24/2014 9:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/24/2014 9:45 AM

rob.boucher.547 wrote:

You guys are missing a point about the cost to reproduce the part, or it was not separated in the bid to manufacture the
part

Tooling, and fixture costs, ( the cost added
for special cutting tools, part holding fixture's.) Each step of machining needs
a special cutting tool made, and the part
to be held so the cuts in the raw material
can be made perfectly
multiple steps, possibly multiple fixtures
if the part was being hand machined

Also the part could be made in a few steps
on a Twin spindle (Live tooling CNC) lathe
but then a few special cutting tools
would be needed( a person would have have to hand make the tooling) out of
solid carbide blanks( or hss) this takes
time!
And high dollar equip!
Even manual shop equip , tooling,
and qualified machinist costs money

So the small amount of $1200.00 is
nothing
The machinist alone labor would be
$600.00 min
Making a part like that is not special effects
press a button out pops a part affair

1200 seems a bit pricey . It sucks the he lives so far south . I can think of at least 5 people who knock that part out in their sleep.

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5/24/2014 9:37 AM

What price were you given by a local shop to have a pin pressed in where the broken boss exists now ?

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5/24/2014 10:14 AM

They hinted around 4-500 dollars, I walked right out. They wanted big dollar customers not me!

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Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
I NEED A PIPE FOR 1987 KX250 - thread
Future project: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1

5/24/2014 10:31 AM

Queen of spodes, could you measure that KDX valve up. I have a friend looking for yet another PV this time for an 87 KX250.
With some luck that kdx might be close
thanks

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