Case repair opinions

sandman768
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5/23/2017 9:36am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2017 10:16am
1981 Suzuki RM250 restore. Found the reason why my crank shaft had so much play on the ignition side...there is a pressed in ring that makes up the bearing pocket in the case, while prepping the case for new bearings I noticed the ring is loose! I did a magnet test on the ring, appears to be aluminum as well. I"m thinking I can just "V" out around the ring & case and have a welder lay a bead around the circumference of the ring & case...any opinions or better methods? Cases are NLA... I bought a complete bottom end for the other side case that I needed, I checked the spare mag side case & the pressed ring is cracked & worn even more than my original. First photo shows my prepped case, the bearing pocket ring is loose in the case. The 2nd photo shows another case I have that the bearing pocket ring is actually cracked.






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pete24
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5/23/2017 10:05am
on quadzillas they have a metal ring pressed in the case that holds the bearing, there is a quad guy maybe DRQ that replaces them either that or that guy can point you in the rite direction
5/23/2017 11:08am
There's a specific Loctite formulation for that type of issue. Get on their website and take a look or give one of their technical guys a call. It will be a cleaner fix than trying to weld, mill, and make sure nothing is warped and out of alignment.
sandman768
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5/23/2017 12:55pm
Thanks for your input guys....yes, an epoxy would be a nice method...its loose but I have not tried to remove it yet
5/23/2017 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2017 1:08pm
It is a easy no weld repair, using your seal bore for location
make a spud to fit seal bore
attach it to a flat steel plate
sweep in od of spud
install case half
clamp and true case surface to plate/ perpendicular to quill/ boring head
bore out old case sleeve/ true bore up
machine a new sleeve for a .002 press
and a .02-.05 undersize for the bearing
use a loctite on sleeve install
install case back on spud, same as above
bore back to size needed for bearing

I would make the case sleeve out of
bronze

The Shop

sandman768
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5/23/2017 1:51pm
That's what I was thinking Rob, I"m in my machine shop right now making my spud....
5/23/2017 2:33pm
Also, if you can leave the case in the mill
and use the quill to press in the
sleeve, and also recheck all your postions
and sufaces to make sure your case has
not moved
Garand1
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central, NY US
5/23/2017 5:36pm
There's a specific Loctite formulation for that type of issue. Get on their website and take a look or give one of their technical guys a...
There's a specific Loctite formulation for that type of issue. Get on their website and take a look or give one of their technical guys a call. It will be a cleaner fix than trying to weld, mill, and make sure nothing is warped and out of alignment.
Loctite 609 or 648 should take care of that for you(648 would be the better choice, but 609 would do the job), You may want to use Loctite Primer N to improve the bond. Make sure both surfaced are very very clean though.
sandman768
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5/23/2017 6:52pm
Garand1 wrote:
Loctite 609 or 648 should take care of that for you(648 would be the better choice, but 609 would do the job), You may want to...
Loctite 609 or 648 should take care of that for you(648 would be the better choice, but 609 would do the job), You may want to use Loctite Primer N to improve the bond. Make sure both surfaced are very very clean though.
Spent some time on their web site today....looks like you are correct, I"m waiting on their tech support to verify 648 would be their best product for this repair. Looks like the primer should be used also as you stated. Thanks for your input..
MaxPower
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5/23/2017 10:45pm
I remember the same thing happening to my friends 81 Suzuki. Ii enjoyed that bike
sandman768
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5/24/2017 7:44am
As loose as the ring is, I cannot get it to come out.tried to heat the case & lightly remove it, no go......I will visit my local machine shop & see what they say...
sandman768
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5/24/2017 7:51am
pete24 wrote:
on quadzillas they have a metal ring pressed in the case that holds the bearing, there is a quad guy maybe DRQ that replaces them either...
on quadzillas they have a metal ring pressed in the case that holds the bearing, there is a quad guy maybe DRQ that replaces them either that or that guy can point you in the rite direction
thanks Pete, the quadzilla owners are well aware of this condition and a few builders have case inserts availible on their web sites...I may go this route if my local machine shop does not want to take it on....I never thought I would find myself on a quad website!
pete24
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5/24/2017 9:47am
pete24 wrote:
on quadzillas they have a metal ring pressed in the case that holds the bearing, there is a quad guy maybe DRQ that replaces them either...
on quadzillas they have a metal ring pressed in the case that holds the bearing, there is a quad guy maybe DRQ that replaces them either that or that guy can point you in the rite direction
sandman768 wrote:
thanks Pete, the quadzilla owners are well aware of this condition and a few builders have case inserts availible on their web sites...I may go this...
thanks Pete, the quadzilla owners are well aware of this condition and a few builders have case inserts availible on their web sites...I may go this route if my local machine shop does not want to take it on....I never thought I would find myself on a quad website!
heres the machine shop that i use, not sure if they do it but i know they know about the issue with the quads
Harrys Machined Parts 508-366-1455
sandman768
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5/24/2017 10:01am
pete24 wrote:
heres the machine shop that i use, not sure if they do it but i know they know about the issue with the quads Harrys Machined...
heres the machine shop that i use, not sure if they do it but i know they know about the issue with the quads
Harrys Machined Parts 508-366-1455
Thanks Pete, I just tried my local machine shop, he wanted nothing to do with it.....I reached out to a few cycle/quad shops that specialize in the Quadzilla case repair, we"ll see what they say..I may be calling your guy..closer to home the better.....
Kidkawie
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5/25/2017 4:03am
I would also use locktite sleeve retainer. But, did you try installing a bearing and see if the sleeve locks up?
sandman768
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5/25/2017 5:45am
Kidkawie wrote:
I would also use locktite sleeve retainer. But, did you try installing a bearing and see if the sleeve locks up?
I"m sure the new bearing would tighten it up somewhat but it is very loose, the crank was very loose before I tore it down, if I could get the sleeve out I would try the loctite sleeve retainer but my initial attempts to remove sleeve were unsuccessful. After more research on Suzukis Quadzilla forums, where this was a common problem, the best solution is to have the insert replaced. A well known quad engine builder named Jerry Hall, stated he tried alum, steel, bronze & nylon inserts, with the nylon proving to be the most durable. I"m not sure if this builder is still around, some of the post were pretty old. Cases for the 81 rm 250 are 1 year only & very hard to come by, I will proceed with caution.
5/25/2017 9:52am
set it up in a mill and bore it out( cut it out)
How come your local shop would not do it?
sandman768
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5/25/2017 10:08am
set it up in a mill and bore it out( cut it out)
How come your local shop would not do it?
Local machine shop is a car guy, guess he was not interested....I just spoke with Jerry Hall, notable quadzilla builder from Glendale Arizona. Very nice guy, told me he used to buy inserts from Rotax & use them for the repairs, but the parts are NLA. Then stated he is back to using brass inserts. He is familiar with the Suzuki quadzilla cases, but not a standard RM case, he stated he would have to see the cases to determine if there would be enough material for the inserts. I do have another machine/bike builder shop about an hr from me that actually repaired one of my cracked RM swingarms a while back, he is a very good machinist & a bike only guy. Only problem is he sometimes takes a really long time, and you have to badger him to get stuff done...
5/25/2017 10:20am
When you remove the cast in sleeve
you do not need to remove any parent
material from the case, or maybe only
.01 to clean up
the cast in sleeve you are trying to remove
should have a 2-3 mm wall per side
your sleeve would have to be custom
machined to size , not a big deal
the only thing , cost issue time , materials
to make a fixture plate to hold case
and a chuck of bronze for the sleeve,
steel woul be fine
5/25/2017 11:44am
Your seal bore stub shaft( spud) could have a flange and two allen bolts, and a key to
mount right to mill table
I had a set of RM465 cases, that had a destroyed set of swingarm pivot bore sleeves
they are cast into the case set the same way
I bored the sleeves out, made a new
bronze set, installed and machined back
to size, worked great
Same with a few rear hubs, that the bearing
bores were shot
same process
Kidkawie
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5/31/2017 3:52am
Can you drill/tap a few holes, similar to those round nubs, loctite in a few allen set screws. I think 4 would do it.
sandman768
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5/31/2017 4:48am
Kidkawie wrote:
Can you drill/tap a few holes, similar to those round nubs, loctite in a few allen set screws. I think 4 would do it.
Kidkawie: we discussed that option, but drilling the pins could be problematic. 2 different metals...? I have the case at a motorcycle specific machine/ fab shop that stated its a fairly simple repair. Pretty much will repair it as Rob stated above. The shop also stated the Loctite products would not would on this application due to the pulsating forces from the crankshaft. This shop specialize in older road bike restores, he stated he has repaired many cases like this normally transmission bearing pockets. Thanks for the suggestion....I will post a photo when it is completed...
sandman768
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6/30/2017 10:16am




Case repaired & bearing installed...machinist stated it was a little more labor intensive than he estimated, mainly to get the old bearing sleeve out....This machinist/ bike shop restores a lot of old Japanese inline 4 engines, he stated they run across this type of repair all the time...... Figured I would include a proper ending to this thread, thanks for all who offered opinions & help....
Kidkawie
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7/1/2017 12:40am
Looks good! Who did the work?
sandman768
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7/1/2017 6:19am
Kidkawie wrote:
Looks good! Who did the work?
John Gainey at PErformance Cycle Works..or PCW, as the shop is known, located in Schenectady NY. Shop has been a drag racing engine shop for years, holding a bunch of National records if I remember correctly. He is very well known in drag bike circle..I know him from all my road bikes friends... John is a machinist/ engineer/ engine builder ect.... I knew all along he could do this repair, you just have to make a few phone calls to remind him! Mad scientist type....he has a Facebook page...
MaxPower
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7/2/2017 10:20am
What is the cost for this repair to be done? I imagine it takes time to do it perfect. If there is one area on an engine where things need to be dead on its a spinning crank shaft

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