80's Honda CR waterpump info.

FreshTopEnd
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9/21/2010 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 10/1/2020 2:20am
Someone posted this at the vintage swapmeet discussion forum and it seemed like a good thing to repeat here for the sake of keeping helpful information around.

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbqdfmvfNMc




And here is even BETTER news, the 1989 water pump cover is ALUMINUM!!! No more
corrosion!

Yes there are some additional parts you need to get.

Here is how it breaks down:

1981 water pump cover will fit a 1982 and 1983. 1981 cover is aluminum, 1982
through 1988 are made of magnesium.

1984 is a "one off" water pump cover.

1985 through 1989 use virtually the same water pump cover. I know for a fact
that a 1989 water pump cover WILL work on a 1988,1987 and 1986 CR250. A 1987 cover
will fit a 1986 and 1985. Therefore the 1989 cover WILL work on the
1988,87,86,85 CR250.

I have confirmed with the mechanic I have been working with that the 1989
CR250 water pump cover part number 11340-KS7-831 WILL FIT the 1985, 1986, 1987,
1988 And of course the 1989 CR250's!!!

YOU WILL need to also order part number 90084-KF9-900 (alternator cap cover) and
part number 91303-377-000 (o ring for alternator cap) and 11342-KS7-701 (clutch
cover (Honda no longer carries this part, you will need to find it on ebay or a
motorcycle salvage yard) and the clutch cover o ring part number 91311-KS7-701.

The difference between the 1985/86 from the 1987 water pump cover is the 1987
water pump cover had a removable clutch cover.

The difference between the 1989 water pump cover and the 1985, 1986, 1987 water
pump cover is that there is a minor difference on how you are able to access the
water pump governor. The 1989 water pump cover is also available from Honda and
it is made from ALUMINUM!

The 1981 CR250 water pump covers (which are made from aluminum) will fit the
1982 and 1983 CR250's.

To sum up.
If you have a 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988 Honda CR250 with a bad water pump cover,
you can order directly from Honda an aluminum water pump cover from a 1989 Honda
CR250.
You will also need to get a clutch cover if you have a 1985/86 CR250, which you
need to find used and the alternator cap cover and ring and of course the water
pump gasket (part number 11395-KS7-306), you will also need to get the plastic oil filler plug from the 1989 cover.

The "orphan" water pump cover is the 1984 CR250, it apparently is a "one year
only" water pump cover.
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ThePipe
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9/21/2010 8:24pm
I did this little test a few years ago
I tossed an NOS 85/86 cover on an 87 Case http://www.onthepiperacing.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=29144

and Yes that 84 is a 1 off (Some online fiche say the 84-86 are the same but NO)
The 84 is close to the 85/86 except for 1 bolt near the Impeller ( Therefore a NoGo)


Braaaap
jammin76tx
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9/22/2010 12:58am
I've read something similar about an '89 cr125 waterpump case will fit '87-'88 cr125's. I have an '87 sitting on my back porch right now with a rotted out waterpump, trying to decide to fix it or part it out. Can anyone confirm that an '89 will fit the '87?

Thanks,
Marcus
Tbteam
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9/22/2010 6:59am
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up.

What I'd really like to do is send it to someone who can repair everything and get it back to me without me having to source everything for him. I simply don't have the time.

I would want a rebore and new piston/rings as well.

Anybody know of such a place?
berniepiet
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9/22/2010 7:12am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2010 7:13am
Tbteam wrote:
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up. What I'd really...
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up.

What I'd really like to do is send it to someone who can repair everything and get it back to me without me having to source everything for him. I simply don't have the time.

I would want a rebore and new piston/rings as well.

Anybody know of such a place?
Mark:

Cyclewerks can help. They reconditioned my 87 CR 250 the same way. It needed to be completely disassembled and re plated.You can just send them the engine. They understand 1980's Honda CR's.

Kevin, the owner was a Honda mechanic for a national rider during the 80's. He understands the powervalve set up, which is no easy task.

www.cyclewerksracing.com . Phone 478 474 0259. Tell em Ziggy sent you.

The Shop

berniepiet
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9/22/2010 7:14am
Tbteam wrote:
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up. What I'd really...
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up.

What I'd really like to do is send it to someone who can repair everything and get it back to me without me having to source everything for him. I simply don't have the time.

I would want a rebore and new piston/rings as well.

Anybody know of such a place?
By the way, if you are not interested in that 84 CR 250, I would be.

Ziggy
9/22/2010 9:26am
Tbteam wrote:
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up. What I'd really...
I have an 89 motor ripped apart and the water pump area has some corrosion damage. Some of the internals are messed up.

What I'd really like to do is send it to someone who can repair everything and get it back to me without me having to source everything for him. I simply don't have the time.

I would want a rebore and new piston/rings as well.

Anybody know of such a place?
TbTeam:

Give these guys a call. They are quite well versed in the 80's CR250, in fact this mechanic is the guy that did the R&D for the water pump issue and knows what works. He did my motor work in the video posted by FTE.
Drop him an email at
hondamxracer182@msn.com

or

Call 480-577-5587 and speak to Dave, he is one of the owners of Motocenter. I am sure he can do your entire motor and get it shipped back to you. Dave's other partner was a factory mechanic until recently.

Hope this helps.
mosslander
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2/25/2011 9:18am
What differens the 89 from 90-91 covers, are they in magnesium aswell or is the waterpump different on the 90-91 ?
CamP
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2/25/2011 6:08pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2011 6:17pm
mosslander wrote:
What differens the 89 from 90-91 covers, are they in magnesium aswell or is the waterpump different on the 90-91 ?
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the '87 without issues. Runs about $110 new from Honda.
mosslander
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2/26/2011 7:39am
mosslander wrote:
What differens the 89 from 90-91 covers, are they in magnesium aswell or is the waterpump different on the 90-91 ?
CamP wrote:
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the...
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the '87 without issues. Runs about $110 new from Honda.
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch most fit aswell and that is a good upgrade to do.
By the way CamP ! How is it going with the vet racing on your 82 Suzuki ?
CamP
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2/26/2011 7:53am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2011 7:59am
mosslander wrote:
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch...
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch most fit aswell and that is a good upgrade to do.
By the way CamP ! How is it going with the vet racing on your 82 Suzuki ?
I got a '95 CR250 to race in our vintage club's decade class and I'm saving the RM for only special occasions. It's really too nice to be beating on it.

We started our spring series last weekend. The CR ran like a top.



CR500Rider
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2/26/2011 12:34pm
mosslander wrote:
What differens the 89 from 90-91 covers, are they in magnesium aswell or is the waterpump different on the 90-91 ?
CamP wrote:
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the...
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the '87 without issues. Runs about $110 new from Honda.
mosslander wrote:
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch...
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch most fit aswell and that is a good upgrade to do.
By the way CamP ! How is it going with the vet racing on your 82 Suzuki ?
The clutch upgrade works on a CR500. I bet it would work on a CR250.
mosslander
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2/26/2011 12:37pm
Nice photos CamP and it seems your in a great shape too.
Here it's cool and I haven't felt sush a long cool winter ever in my life and the bike just standing in the garage but the spring are knocking on the door so who knows.
CamP
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2/26/2011 1:41pm
mosslander wrote:
Nice photos CamP and it seems your in a great shape too. Here it's cool and I haven't felt sush a long cool winter ever in...
Nice photos CamP and it seems your in a great shape too.
Here it's cool and I haven't felt sush a long cool winter ever in my life and the bike just standing in the garage but the spring are knocking on the door so who knows.
Thanks mosslander. I'm not really in great shape though. I can only do about 3-4 hard laps at a time because I sat on my butt all winter. It's been 21C all week here in North Texas so it looks like the spring riding season has arrived. I should get motivated to start training a little bit.
mosslander
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2/26/2011 2:23pm
CamP wrote:
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the...
I was talking to someone this weekend that has a 91 cover on his '87 CR250. It's made of aluminum and everything bolted up to the '87 without issues. Runs about $110 new from Honda.
mosslander wrote:
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch...
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch most fit aswell and that is a good upgrade to do.
By the way CamP ! How is it going with the vet racing on your 82 Suzuki ?
CR500Rider wrote:
The clutch upgrade works on a CR500. I bet it would work on a CR250.
Wow thats great info ! thank's CR500Rider.
jtracing6
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2/27/2011 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 2/27/2011 12:05pm
Hi Mikael
Are you coming to Farleigh Castle this year? I see that a team from Sweden has entered!
I should have your disc guards ready soon.
CR500Rider
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2/27/2011 12:03pm
mosslander wrote:
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch...
This make me wonder if the 8 plate clutch from 90 and on also fit and if it does then the new Hinson one spring clutch most fit aswell and that is a good upgrade to do.
By the way CamP ! How is it going with the vet racing on your 82 Suzuki ?
CR500Rider wrote:
The clutch upgrade works on a CR500. I bet it would work on a CR250.
mosslander wrote:
Wow thats great info ! thank's CR500Rider.
This info is for CR500s but I'd bet money the CR250 is the same. The newer style inner cover bolts right on and is slightly wider (for the extra disc). The pressure plate, water pump assembly, water pump cover and clutch cover off the old is the same as the new. It seems you use the newer pushrod (without the ball) on the wider basket. All that being said I have an 87' CR500, a 2000 CR500 and an aluminum framed 87' CR500 and there isn't a noticeable difference in clutch pull between them. I just used the newer aluminum cover because of magnesium rot. Hope some of this info helps.
jtracing6
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2/27/2011 12:27pm
I fitted a 1989 clutch housing on my 1986 CR250 David Bailey replica, because I wanted the removable clutch cover. It went straight on. I had to fiddle around with the power valve governor spring a little and turn the small cup the other way round . you have to get an outer cover but I bought an HRC one, a filler cap and o ring. Apparently the 1990 is cheaper from Honda but not available so it's not really cheaper after all.
Easy peasey lemon squeezy!
mosslander
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2/27/2011 1:05pm
jtracing6 wrote:
Hi Mikael Are you coming to Farleigh Castle this year? I see that a team from Sweden has entered! I should have your disc guards ready...
Hi Mikael
Are you coming to Farleigh Castle this year? I see that a team from Sweden has entered!
I should have your disc guards ready soon.
Hi there Keith! I did send a mail to Carla about Farleigh but he has not answer it. And for me 2011 is a busy year with merrige and garage finish and many project at the lokal MX track, by the way I have farleigh as one of my goals.
mosslander
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2/27/2011 1:19pm
CR500Rider wrote:
The clutch upgrade works on a CR500. I bet it would work on a CR250.
mosslander wrote:
Wow thats great info ! thank's CR500Rider.
CR500Rider wrote:
This info is for CR500s but I'd bet money the CR250 is the same. The newer style inner cover bolts right on and is slightly wider...
This info is for CR500s but I'd bet money the CR250 is the same. The newer style inner cover bolts right on and is slightly wider (for the extra disc). The pressure plate, water pump assembly, water pump cover and clutch cover off the old is the same as the new. It seems you use the newer pushrod (without the ball) on the wider basket. All that being said I have an 87' CR500, a 2000 CR500 and an aluminum framed 87' CR500 and there isn't a noticeable difference in clutch pull between them. I just used the newer aluminum cover because of magnesium rot. Hope some of this info helps.
It's always welcome with tricky tips info and 250 and 500cr share some parts is a good thing to know so thanks again CR500Rider
2/27/2011 5:37pm
jtracing6 wrote:
I fitted a 1989 clutch housing on my 1986 CR250 David Bailey replica, because I wanted the removable clutch cover. It went straight on. I had...
I fitted a 1989 clutch housing on my 1986 CR250 David Bailey replica, because I wanted the removable clutch cover. It went straight on. I had to fiddle around with the power valve governor spring a little and turn the small cup the other way round . you have to get an outer cover but I bought an HRC one, a filler cap and o ring. Apparently the 1990 is cheaper from Honda but not available so it's not really cheaper after all.
Easy peasey lemon squeezy!
Are you saying that a 1990 CR250 water pump cover will fit on a 1986 CR250?

Can you verify this?
jtracing6
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2/27/2011 11:25pm
koolstrike wrote:
Are you saying that a 1990 CR250 water pump cover will fit on a 1986 CR250?

Can you verify this?
I can't confirm that the 1990 cover fits the 1986 because I fitted a 1989 cover to my bike. I am 99% sure the 1990 will fit. I decided after checking out part numbers for the right hand crankcase, gasket, water pump cover etc. In the end I thought what the hell and ordered a 1989 cover. If it didn't fit I'd have to sell it on. As I said above I had to fiddle with the powervalve governor spring but nothing major.
I hope this helps and doesn't make things more confusing.
Al_Rob
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2/28/2011 12:43pm
Hello,

I have a CR125 1985 that I have almost fully restored after many months of hard work and a lot of cash

The only problem I have now is that the engine cover (water pump side) which has previously been repaired is still leaking oil even after a number of attemps to repair by myself.

I think the best option is to replace the cover but I can't find one anywhere the same year. Does anyone know what other covers as in the make of year I can use?

Thanks,

Alun
berniepiet
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2/28/2011 7:28pm
Alun:

On the 125, 84,85, & 86 should be interchangeable, check the Honda parts fiche to be sure. 87 & later is certainly different as they went to a different powervalve machanism.

Question for you. Do you know anything about the Farleigh Castle MXDN? I am thinking about coming over for it this year.
jtracing6
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3/2/2011 12:12am
berniepiet wrote:
Alun: On the 125, 84,85, & 86 should be interchangeable, check the Honda parts fiche to be sure. 87 & later is certainly different as they...
Alun:

On the 125, 84,85, & 86 should be interchangeable, check the Honda parts fiche to be sure. 87 & later is certainly different as they went to a different powervalve machanism.

Question for you. Do you know anything about the Farleigh Castle MXDN? I am thinking about coming over for it this year.
You should come to Farleigh Castle, the last two years were fantastic. Go to www.farleighcastle.co.uk for all the info. Last year they helped organize bikes for the Australians and Kiwis to use. Hope this helps and gives you a little shove to come over!!
Racerx930
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3/2/2011 4:11pm
On the 81 to 83 issues.

I brought home a decent looking 83 today and rode it for a while. It started leaking oil from the stator cover! It looks like I have to replace the crank seal. The worst part of it was the damn oil was green. I'm guessing this is a tell tell sign of the water pump cover leaking.

You mention the 81 cover will fit, is it still available from Honda?
Racerx930
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3/2/2011 7:18pm
Just pulled it apart. Basicly I have a hole big enough to stick a coat hanger through. It's been JB welded once already. I think it leaked into the crankcase, built up too much pressure and blew the crank seal! I had an 82 parts bike so I pulled the cover off of it and it's been welded on. Doesn't look like it would hold.
3/3/2011 8:37pm
Racerx930 wrote:
On the 81 to 83 issues. I brought home a decent looking 83 today and rode it for a while. It started leaking oil from the...
On the 81 to 83 issues.

I brought home a decent looking 83 today and rode it for a while. It started leaking oil from the stator cover! It looks like I have to replace the crank seal. The worst part of it was the damn oil was green. I'm guessing this is a tell tell sign of the water pump cover leaking.

You mention the 81 cover will fit, is it still available from Honda?
Are you referring to the water pump cover? No it is no longer available from Honda. Honda has discontinued most of the parts from those early '80s Honda's.
Racerx930
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3/3/2011 8:47pm
Yeah found that out today. The 82 I have actually had an 81 red aluminum cover on it. It has quite a bit of weld repair around the water pump area but I guess I have to try it.
bigmaico
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Kingwood, TX US
3/4/2011 9:53am
So guy's would the clutch cover & water pump fix work on a 86' 500.

My friend bought one & I discovered that the trans was full of coolant, he ordered seals.

I hope it's only the seals!
jtracing6
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3/4/2011 11:56am
berniepiet wrote:
Alun: On the 125, 84,85, & 86 should be interchangeable, check the Honda parts fiche to be sure. 87 & later is certainly different as they...
Alun:

On the 125, 84,85, & 86 should be interchangeable, check the Honda parts fiche to be sure. 87 & later is certainly different as they went to a different powervalve machanism.

Question for you. Do you know anything about the Farleigh Castle MXDN? I am thinking about coming over for it this year.
Ziggy
E mail me at keithrpalmer@yahoo.co.uk

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