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Location
Philadelphia, PA
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Edited Date/Time
2/11/2019 11:32am
I've recently been in the job hunting market. Got my resume out to a lot of businesses, some big, some small. I got some questions that maybe some of y'all know the quick answers too. Any advice is welcome.
Company (A) is a startup that has only been in existence for 2 years. It has offered me their "Chief Operating Officer" role. They are a small company. The job will pay decent six figure income.
Company (B ) has offered me a position with a less prestigious title, the same income, and this company is much bigger (150 employees) and has been around 10+ years.
Which looks better on a person's resume when it's all said and done? The higher executive job title at the small company or the lessor executive role at the much larger company?
Both jobs pay the same
Both offer equity in the companies
Both positions answer directly to the CEO
Both carry a ton of responsibility
One company is much more stable due to it's size/history while the other offers more potential growth if it ever gets to that size
Thanks.
Company (A) is a startup that has only been in existence for 2 years. It has offered me their "Chief Operating Officer" role. They are a small company. The job will pay decent six figure income.
Company (B ) has offered me a position with a less prestigious title, the same income, and this company is much bigger (150 employees) and has been around 10+ years.
Which looks better on a person's resume when it's all said and done? The higher executive job title at the small company or the lessor executive role at the much larger company?
Both jobs pay the same
Both offer equity in the companies
Both positions answer directly to the CEO
Both carry a ton of responsibility
One company is much more stable due to it's size/history while the other offers more potential growth if it ever gets to that size
Thanks.
If whatever field you are aiming to go into is more about names of companies (I come from the marketing world where name dropping previous companies has way more impact than the campaign(s) you worked on) then go that route. But if the industry is more about about the projects you worked on than the company who created it (IE. Dude, you worked on I, Tonya?!?!... who made that again?) then go that route.
At the end of the day, people in my industry want to see how much impact you can create on your own, and usually smaller setups allow people to shine brighter... albeit a riskier option.
I'm sure it's not the advice you were looking for, but, it's all I got.
In a perfect world I'd love the next company I work for and stay with them for a long time. But things rarely go as planned so I have to take many things into account. This is just one of the many angles Im looking at when deciding which is the best option for my family and I moving forward.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
But as you say, "hope for the best – plan for the worst."
Good luck.
I’d consider a GC more disposable then a good COO. Current example is where I currently work we have gone through three GCs. Not necessarily because they weren’t good. Just the business evolves. Grows, shrinks. Etc. we currently outsource a ton of stuff to outside legal now after having had our last in-house GC for over two years. Our COO makes 3x what our GC ever did and the long term incintivrs are over 10x difference.
Many places a COO role can be technical/business. GC’s are not a technical role generally speaking.
Painting broad here obviously as every place is different.....
The Shop
Either way, I'd still like to get my law degree just for the challenge/accomplishment. A solid degree is really holding back my career trajectory. EVERYTHING else about my background/resume is superb. Excellent references & real-world experience. So much so that some HR & CEO's are willing to look past my lack of a degree. But I'd be a fool to think that it hasnt hurt me with some potential employers.
As for my original question, what do you think is best: The COO title at a small company or being a technical director at a much larger company?
I don't do much long in-house work anymore these days but when I do I always try and get some educational package out of it. Be is paying for events, online classes, etc. Nearly 10 out of 10 times they go for it because it's a pretty obvious investment back into their company (that they can write off).
That and who doesn't want to help out a guy who's trying to better himself?
Big companies have strength in numbers/volume when it comes to benefits. I recently moved from a 20 person to a 100 person firm and not only are the benefits better in terms of coverage, but it was like getting a 5k raise because my contribution was that much less. Better life insurance, more 401k options, etc all have a monetary value as well. Just may not be as readily apparent.
Also keep in mind, the complexity of a small business may be no where near a large company..meaning you may miss out of learning important complex shit at a small business..
Sadly, in a large company unless you have a Masters degree at a fancy ass college you are not getting anywhere near a COO position- and it has nothing to do with talent.
A technical director at a larger company I think is more prestigious.
That being said, the small startup sounds exciting because you can be instrumental part of growing this business (or wrecking it.)..this would be more personally satisfying I think.
- financial compensation
- benefits
- location/region
- cultural fit
Maybe Im overthinking this job title thing. But these two companies couldnt be more different in their scale.
And I have to plan on the event that in a sale, the new owners buy me out of the contract. Thus a big reason why Im planning for "worst case" scenario.
Yes, you are correct, the build of a small company is fun. And the family atmosphere feels like they genuinely care about you. But the scale of the larger companies I've applied with are so challenging that I am drawn to them as well. There's also security in knowing that the bigger company has some legitimacy to it.
Ultimately I just want to do what is best longterm for my family. I have a wife & kid so paternal instinct has kicked in.
It's time to buy a home and set down some roots. This is more than just a career choice. Thus why it's so difficult to make. Or maybe I am just overthinking it. If you knew how my 2018 went (death of a child, employer screwed me over, lost our home) it'd make a bit more sense as to why I am so gunshy.
Id want to go with the smaller company. Large companies suck in so many ways. Butttt if the pay, benefits, etc etc are all equal and you arr confident you can success in Either company the larger companys stability may be an important factor given the things you've written.
Either way sounds you will be in good shape.
The only advice I can or will offer is--how old are you and how many more years are you planning on working ? You may not be my age, but that info would play into my decision.
The paternal instinct is strong. Went through some similar crap in 17. Was a rough year. You’ll know what’s right jabroni!
I "planned" on retiring several years ago but some business ventures went horribly south. Lost millions. Such is life, right?
Thx for the support from you & Georgie. Yeah, 2018 was rough, but I've finally got my feet under me again, motivated, and a lot of positive things in the works.
As you probably know tho, starting over is ROUGH. I always land on my feet and manage to climb to new heights but Im very tired of the yo-yo in life. My wife deserves better as well.
Thankfully we're not fighting during the rough times. We've really stuck together well and she's been supportive in helping me get my head right. If you're an entrepreneur, you can relate, but Ive been "broke" a few in my life. Homeless even at one point. It's a healthy experience that everyone should encounter what it's like to not know where your next meal is coming from. That said, it's a whole other ballgame when you're looking at your wife and child and you dont know how you are going to feed them next week. It's the ultimate punch to the gut. You feel like such a failure as a human. The desperate thoughts & dark places the mind goes to in those moments is pretty eye opening now looking back. It's definitely a experience I didnt need to endure but I did and Im out the other side now, thankfully.
I've made the job decision. Going to go with door #3. I didnt bring it up initially because it seemed like a longshot but over the last 36 hours some new developments have changed the dynamic. Long story short it's a large company I've done contract work for in the past. I know the top brass well, and more importantly, they know me well. They want me on board as soon as they complete their next raise in funding. It pays well and has the fancy title, but more importantly the job itself is exactly what Im good at doing. They're offering a nice vacation home for my family to live in until we can buy. And they've also included me in their fundraising, which if I can help them round up, I get a nice commission. And it looks good on that front. They're big but I have a personal connection with the CEO & COO. They have a thorough plan & still a lot of growing to do as a company. To your credit, this is the opportunity that "feels right".
Pit Row
Good luck with the new job buddy ?
Jabroni, first off, I am awestruck by your ability to rebound and move forward. I am truly sorry for the losses you have experienced in the recent past. Being a father as well, I can't even fathom what you have gone through.
The following viewpoint might seem from far left field, but do you have the means to just fulfill your educational dreams of completing law school, to skip this current professional conundrum entirely while using this time to heal and study fully, all while resetting for the next phase of your future career as GC or whatever else may unfold?
I would bag the startup. Even hearing those words drags me back to the year 2000; so many unfulfilled promises, so much worthless stock awarded, so many wasted hours stripped away from what was truly important.
It sounds like your time at home might be better spent with loved ones there than in an office building someone else's company and killing yourself doing it. Been there, done that.
I'm just coming off a gig with a Big 4 firm and at a crossroads myself. I hadn't planned for this moment, but have chosen to enjoy February unmolested before making any moves or decisions concerning the future.
Good luck!
It's interesting that you mentioned being homeless at a point. There were two times in my life that I was living out of a car, and neither instance was by choice.
The first time occured when I was at lifetime financial low, yet had the feeling of the most to look forward to and the other time occurred after I had lost everything that seemed important to me, but was at lifetime financial high.
Such an extreme juxtaposition.
But the debilitating pain my body was in from the inflammation caused by carbs made me feel 65 years old.
I dropped from 35% body fat to 12% in 90 days. But more importantly, ALL MY AILMENTS have gone away.
Insomnia - since I was a kid, never once fell asleep before 3am. Thought I just had a condition, it was the sugar.
Back Pain - thought I just had "a bad back". Every day took 90 minutes of stretching just to get out of bed. I feel 17 years old again.
Allergies - in the Spring it'd get SOOOO bad that I'd have to just go hide in the shower. I havent had one symptom since going keto.
I wrote a manual on helping people overcome sugar addiction. Ran basically my own case study and to date have coached over 30 people thru the process. Not for any monetary benefit. But because I enjoy it. It's been so life changing for me. I thought maybe I had 2-3 years left of playing sports before my body was gonna finally quit on me. Right now? I honestly think I could go another 20 years at a high level. I feel that fucking good.
Check your email, I sent you my manual. It should help.
I appreciate your kind words of support. Losing a loved one, especially a child, is pretty much unfathomable. I'll go into some detail as maybe it will help someone else who is going thru tough times...
I've had the same best friend since I was 6 years old. We've never so much as gotten in a bad fight. He's the closest thing I have to family (I have lots of family/brothers but they're all pretty much pieces of shit, another story for another day). When my wife & I decided to have a baby, he was the first person we told. He was so happy for us that he and his girl immediately started trying to have a child. They got pregnant 5 months later, the exact same age gap as me and my friend.
As it turns out we were both set to have girls. We wanted to raise them together the same way we were (we were neighbors growing up, his father was basically the closest thing to a dad that I ever had). At this point the expectations we had, the future we were planning... it all felt like fate.
We had our child totally natural. No pain killers. Just a midwife and a bathtub in a homebirthing facility. No ultrasounds. Heck, I didnt even know the sex of the baby until she was born. We were convinced it was going to be a boy. He went the other route, everything "by the book". Constant ultrasounds, doctors, hospital, etc. They knew the gender so when ours popped out a girl, that was literally the first thing that went thru my mind was how happy I was that we were both having girls. Kinda odd that's the first thing I thought as Im seeing my child for the first time but that's just how close he and I are.
His woman went into labor 5 months later. They went to the hospital, all vitals checked out. But they were still about 6 hours from the show starting so they were sent back home to rest. During that time the umbilical cord got pinched and the baby suffocated just hours from being born.
The following days are inexplicable. The shattered hopes and dreams are something words arent going to properly articulate.
The pain takes over so quickly and escalates to the point that your body shuts itself off as a self defense mechanism. So then the numbness sets in. Lights are on but nobody is home. Periodically I'd snap out of it for just long enough to feel the pain, I'd go into the garage to cry, then try to pull myself together when returning to the house for my family.
It may seem odd but for several weeks I couldnt even hold my own child or look at her. I felt so guilty that mine survived and his didnt. I wanted to trade places with my friend just so he wouldnt have to feel what he was going thru. I know that isnt rational but nothing is rational during those moments. Everything is just immense pain or numb. Unanswered questions & no sense of compass whatsoever. I was so crushed.
This went on until I spoke to a therapist. She had a few key points that I'll share. They wont apply to everyone. But it will illustrate how good it is to seek help from a professional. They've seen it all and they know the playbook.
1. There is no right/wrong way to grieve, so dont ever worry about if you're doing things right
2. American culture in particular is really bad at grieving, we bury stuff rather than face it head on. I really needed to hear this part because my moments hiding in the garage werent getting me anywhere.
3. Another reason why Americans are so bad at grieving is because we have entitlement issues. We expect good things to always happen. It may be harsh, but I REALLY needed this cold glass of water thrown in my face. The reality is, women & children die all the time in labor. That is the normal way. Modern medicine has removed us from that reality. Oddly enough, I was totally prepared for it with my own wife/child. I knew the risks I was taking. I cried often during our own pregnancy. I didnt know if I was going to lose our child or my wife. I was scared and thought about it every day and really cherished what I knew could be our last days together. So then when everything came out healthy, I thought I was in the clear. And when it was a baby girl, no chance of anything going wrong with my friend's child was even remotely possible. I totally let my guard down. They were going to a hospital anyways. And this was fucking fate. It was meant to be. All that bullshit. Well, my therapist was right, reality had other plans and it was important I accepted it.
I cant remember if it was the next day or 3 days later but during one of my low points, instead of going into the garage to try and bury the pain, I did what the therapist said and I let it wash over me. I went into the shower and turned the water on and let it run cold for the next 6.5 hours while I cried the entire time. I just let it all happen and bathed in the pain. I didnt run from any of it, I just sat there and really let the grieving happen. Until I couldnt anymore. Until the tears stopped. Until no matter how much I thought about the tragedy, I couldnt cause an emotional reaction because my body was spent of all it had to give. And then I climbed out of the shower and that's when I started taking the first steps to towards...
4. The New Normal - the therapist made it clear that I needed to accept that there would never be full recovery from this. We'd never be the same. It's a wound, that would eventually heal to some degree, but the scar would always remain. We'd find a "new normal" at some point. So the key is to stop trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube and at the same time, it aint about "moving on". It's just about accepting this is the way it has to be moving forward.
That therapist told me what I needed to hear. Unfortunately my best friend and his girl still refuse to seek any professional help nearly a year later. They're still stuck in the endless cycle of pain/numb/confusion. It's a weird phenomenon in that most of us reject the idea of getting help, even when we know we need it. He's pushed away all his close friends. Wont go around their families. And the only time I see him is when I go visit. We try to have our friendship but it's not the same. He wont go around my wife or daughter, hasnt seen my daughter since she was born. All of which is natural, Im not judging him. He's got to be on his own path to healing and if it takes longer, so be it. I'll wait patiently.
6 years ago I got my dream job in Europe, only to see that company sold/moved a year into the job, sending me back to the USA having to start over.
3 years ago I invested in a piece of commercial real estate my mom owned. I invested EVERYTHING I'd saved since moving back to the USA. My mother showed up to the job site on the day the contractors were finished to tell me she had a buyer for the property and that she was selling it. And oh yeah, she was keeping all the proceeds. That left my wife and I homeless and broke as we had put everything into that property with the intentions of splitting the profits with my mother.
I used that construction & management experience to start my own consulting firm and quickly got ourselves on our feet after about 2 years. It turns out I have a knack for unfucking large scale projects that are over budget & behind schedule. Im good in crisis, imagine that. Oddly enough, without having my hand forced by my cunt of a mother, I'd never have started consulting for people.
11 months ago tonight, when the baby passed, I was already on a extended paternity leave and just about ready to get back to work (Im a independent consultant/contractor) but was in no condition to do so. So naturally, I needed more time away from working which didnt do my company any favors. I operate mostly on referrals and pretty much ghosted everyone. When I finally went back to taking jobs, I took some contracts that hindsight says were a mistake, did a bunch of work, and when they didnt pay, it left us unable to pay bills, credit cards maxed, and packing up our new home. My wife was heartbroken.
The last 6 months of being broke couldve been avoided but in some weird way, it's opened up doors that never wouldve been opened and might see me reach new financial heights.
My life has been a wild ride. I've seen some extreme highs and as illustrated here, some extreme lows. Not that I am special in that regard, we all have stories to tell. And Im not trying to sound like Im some sort of victim here. I've made my own poor choices over the years. Im confident I can recover from anything, but damn, the last year nearly broke me. I am REALLY tired of starting over and/or rebounding from tough situations. My wife deserves some sort of damn medal for what Ive put her thru over the years. I just want to buy a home and provide stability for her so badly at this point. We both deserve it.
And here's the real kicker that you can all relate too since we all have a deep affection for motorcycles. No matter how broke we were, she refused to let me sell my Husky or my MV Agusta. She knew how hard I'd worked to get them and while I wanted to pay off credit cards she convinced me we'd find another way, cause we always do. They were symbols of our previous sacrifices. Somehow she knew that by getting rid of those bikes it might've ruined me for good.
This is way more information than I ever planned on sharing in this thread but it's been a bit therapeutic and I really appreciate everyone's support. I dont have any well thought out advice or clever cliches to give on overcoming low points. I guess treat life the same way I got my start in consulting... I dont know shit about how to pour concrete but I know what getting up early, showing up on time looks like, and communicating. And that goes a long way on the job site or in life, especially the communication part. But what the fuck do I know. I'll pretend to be a motivational speaker when I've actually gotten thru this chapter in life.
I was trying the ketogenic diet but had a hard time eliminating some sugars as well. I want to eliminate some lbs. Could you send my that guide as well?
thank you.
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