Tragedy in Toronto

KennyT
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4/25/2018 7:48am
ToolMaker wrote:
I used to travel a lot through the USA and beyond. The things you experience varies dramatically depending on where you go. The LEOs typically deal...
I used to travel a lot through the USA and beyond. The things you experience varies dramatically depending on where you go. The LEOs typically deal with the dregs of society day in and day out. I suspect they get a bit hardened over time also.
KennyT wrote:
I have to agree with this. Sure there are some very bad apples in the bunch with any profession. Law enforcement is no different but as...
I have to agree with this. Sure there are some very bad apples in the bunch with any profession. Law enforcement is no different but as a whole I believe the vast majority of them are actually there to protect and serve, its those that we never hear about...only the fuck ups.

And some areas the citizens want the police dead, in those areas I imagine you would be a little trigger happy. That being said there are disgusting red necks in certain parts of the country who will pull people over based on race and there isn’t much that can be done except to weed them out if they do not follow proper procedure
TXDirt wrote:
I think they target what has a higher percentage of someone likely doing something nefarious. I'll give you an example. I was pulled over in my...
I think they target what has a higher percentage of someone likely doing something nefarious. I'll give you an example.

I was pulled over in my mustang on the way to the airport around 4am on a Saturday morning. Officer said one of my license plate lights was out. I asked to see and we both got out and looked and the license plate lights were on. He said he couldn't see license plate from a distance of 50 feet. They were too dim and need to be replaced. He gave me a warning.

Now you know damn well that he was hoping to bust me for a DUI. Mustang out, 4am probably coming home from the bars.

A friend of mine who is a good cop told me they use that all the time to pull people over. You can't really challenge it. And lots of times they do catch people doing shit they shouldn't be doing.

If you are a cop and a mustang rolls through your beat in the middle of the night you are probably going to check it out.

Again, is that right or wrong? Maybe it depends......
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars then use whatever excuse you have to pull them over. I always went by that saying that If you out past midnight you are most likely up to no good Smile
early
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4/25/2018 8:01am
KennyT wrote:
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars...
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars then use whatever excuse you have to pull them over. I always went by that saying that If you out past midnight you are most likely up to no good Smile
If you are ok with unlawful search and seizure maybe cars should be equiped with speed recording capabilities that can be reviewed by law enforcement. If you aren't doing anything wrong...right?
https://www.curbed.com/2017/7/28/16051780/us-traffic-death-speeding-sta…
MR. X
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North Tonawanda, NY US
4/25/2018 8:14am
KennyT wrote:
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars...
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars then use whatever excuse you have to pull them over. I always went by that saying that If you out past midnight you are most likely up to no good Smile
That's a horrible saying to go by ! Sounds like something an old curmudgeon would preach.
TXDirt
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Plano, TX US
4/25/2018 8:17am
KennyT wrote:
I have to agree with this. Sure there are some very bad apples in the bunch with any profession. Law enforcement is no different but as...
I have to agree with this. Sure there are some very bad apples in the bunch with any profession. Law enforcement is no different but as a whole I believe the vast majority of them are actually there to protect and serve, its those that we never hear about...only the fuck ups.

And some areas the citizens want the police dead, in those areas I imagine you would be a little trigger happy. That being said there are disgusting red necks in certain parts of the country who will pull people over based on race and there isn’t much that can be done except to weed them out if they do not follow proper procedure
TXDirt wrote:
I think they target what has a higher percentage of someone likely doing something nefarious. I'll give you an example. I was pulled over in my...
I think they target what has a higher percentage of someone likely doing something nefarious. I'll give you an example.

I was pulled over in my mustang on the way to the airport around 4am on a Saturday morning. Officer said one of my license plate lights was out. I asked to see and we both got out and looked and the license plate lights were on. He said he couldn't see license plate from a distance of 50 feet. They were too dim and need to be replaced. He gave me a warning.

Now you know damn well that he was hoping to bust me for a DUI. Mustang out, 4am probably coming home from the bars.

A friend of mine who is a good cop told me they use that all the time to pull people over. You can't really challenge it. And lots of times they do catch people doing shit they shouldn't be doing.

If you are a cop and a mustang rolls through your beat in the middle of the night you are probably going to check it out.

Again, is that right or wrong? Maybe it depends......
KennyT wrote:
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars...
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars then use whatever excuse you have to pull them over. I always went by that saying that If you out past midnight you are most likely up to no good Smile
Then should anyone get upset that black people get pulled over on the same violation because cop likely suspects they may have a gun or drugs in the car? He had no reason to suspect me of DUI other then I was in a mustang at 4am.

My point is I think police in general are going to focus on groups or objects or situations they perceive of having a high probability or getting a hit.

Black people in an impala with gold rims.
White guy in mustang at 4am
Redneck with a confederate flag in window.

I think LEO's job is far more complex then most folks realize. Their job is to serve and protect. Seems simple but it's not. Folks get pissed when they proactively protect. Then folks get pissed when a crime happens and people demand "we need more police on the streets."

Well what good does more police on the streets do if they can't proactively serve in their communities. Exactly . Nothing.

The Shop

akillerwombat
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Los Angeles, CA US
4/25/2018 8:18am
KennyT wrote:
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars...
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars then use whatever excuse you have to pull them over. I always went by that saying that If you out past midnight you are most likely up to no good Smile
Nothing says "land of the free" like being presumed guilty just for being out past midnight.
MR. X
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4/25/2018 8:20am
I think cops have a good idea of who to target and who to let go . If skin color is the only determining factor ,that's not right. I would imagine after arresting enough people ,you start to see trends in the people you arrest and are easier to spot.
KennyT
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4/25/2018 9:40am Edited Date/Time 4/25/2018 12:27pm
KennyT wrote:
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars...
I have no problem with that. Too many innocent people getting killed by drunks/drugs and if a cop thinks anyone may have been hitting the bars then use whatever excuse you have to pull them over. I always went by that saying that If you out past midnight you are most likely up to no good Smile
MR. X wrote:
That's a horrible saying to go by ! Sounds like something an old curmudgeon would preach.
I’m not preaching to anyone. I’m stating what I always felt. A lot of people out that late are possibly partying so if a officer feels he sees someone that may be up to no good then by all means pull them over. If they are intoxicated take their car, lock them up and throw away the key. And if given the opportunity punch them when nobody’s looking
Naanak
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4/25/2018 10:06am
mxb2 wrote:
Pretty sure the officer told them why there were stopped. Were you there? Or just going by their story. Always two sides.
MR. X wrote:
They've always told me why ,even when I was stopped for being white in a black neighborhood . He came right out and said it.
mxb2 wrote:
X2, and if you did nothing wrong, 2 minutes of your time and drive away. If it was a bad stop, people are free to go...
X2, and if you did nothing wrong, 2 minutes of your time and drive away. If it was a bad stop, people are free to go to the station and file a complaint.
Great example of why body cams are so useful. They show how much others lie about how police acted.
mxb2
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4/25/2018 10:14am
MR. X wrote:
They've always told me why ,even when I was stopped for being white in a black neighborhood . He came right out and said it.
mxb2 wrote:
X2, and if you did nothing wrong, 2 minutes of your time and drive away. If it was a bad stop, people are free to go...
X2, and if you did nothing wrong, 2 minutes of your time and drive away. If it was a bad stop, people are free to go to the station and file a complaint.
Naanak wrote:
Great example of why body cams are so useful. They show how much others lie about how police acted.
X2 , and charge people with false complaints.
Rooster
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Edmonton CA
4/25/2018 11:40am
Nothing says "land of the free" like being presumed guilty just for being out past midnight.
Or being pulled over for having the wrong skin color for a neighborhood.
jeffro503
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4/25/2018 12:46pm
peelout wrote:
heartbreaking. i watched the video of him being arrested, he was pointing his phone at the cop and kept reaching for his pocket, trying for a...
heartbreaking.

i watched the video of him being arrested, he was pointing his phone at the cop and kept reaching for his pocket, trying for a suicide by officer. i'm glad they arrested his sorry ass.

ToolMaker wrote:
Situations like this and my gut reaction is I wish they shot him. Maybe there is something to be learned by arresting him but I'm not...
Situations like this and my gut reaction is I wish they shot him. Maybe there is something to be learned by arresting him but I'm not sure what it is.
TM
My knee jerk reaction would be , I'd want him dead too. But honestly.....I think all mass murders like this should be jailed , in the deepest , darkest hole they can find , so that the person can wish he was dead every single day of his life. I wished this for the Vegas shooter , and the church shooter as well , but the Vegas coward killed himself.

But hey....we got two of them!! It makes me happy to know that they will be miserable , and have super bad days , everyday for the rest of their lives. Killing them....is the easy way out for them cowards. And it's what they want.
4/25/2018 1:07pm
bh84 wrote:
I'm glad they kept the piece of shit alive. Now he can rot in a cell for years for what he did. I never thought we...
I'm glad they kept the piece of shit alive. Now he can rot in a cell for years for what he did.

I never thought we would see this kind of thing in Canada. Its hard not to jump to conclusions, but all I keep asking myself is WHY? Why would someone do this? Was it mental? Was it terrorism? Nobody knows yet, and I don't think anyone will be able to reconcile themselves with this until the motive is revealed.


The motive is obvious given his facebook post...

“The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!”

He's another one of the pathetic losers from reddit/4chan who have become convinced that the reason he can't get a girlfriend is because women are evil shallow creatures who are only interested in "Chads." Therefore he has to do something about this great injustice towards him. I've browsed those forums for many years and there's many people like him who's mindset is delusional and disturbing, they pretty much live in this echochamber where they all convince each other of this bullshit.
ToolMaker
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4/26/2018 5:49am
early wrote:
If you are ok with unlawful search and seizure maybe cars should be equiped with speed recording capabilities that can be reviewed by law enforcement. If...
If you are ok with unlawful search and seizure maybe cars should be equiped with speed recording capabilities that can be reviewed by law enforcement. If you aren't doing anything wrong...right?
https://www.curbed.com/2017/7/28/16051780/us-traffic-death-speeding-sta…
The insurance companies are already doing that though right?
Just keep this in your car and get a discount?
ToolMaker
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4/26/2018 5:54am
Nothing says "land of the free" like being presumed guilty just for being out past midnight.
The supreme court agrees with you which is why we have sobriety check points. Wink
So next time they pull you over, maybe just hold up one of your memes and keep driving.
I'm sure they will appreciate that.
ToolMaker
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4/26/2018 6:02am
MR. X wrote:
I think cops have a good idea of who to target and who to let go . If skin color is the only determining factor ,that's...
I think cops have a good idea of who to target and who to let go . If skin color is the only determining factor ,that's not right. I would imagine after arresting enough people ,you start to see trends in the people you arrest and are easier to spot.
I think in many cases you'll find that the crime rates the police interact with are higher in low income areas.
The low income areas are populated with a higher percentage of minorities. It follows that there will be a lot
more minority arrests. The type of crimes in more affluent areas are not typically handled by your regular beat
cops, Those folks usually don't call the cops but take their beef to civil court.
TM
early
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4/26/2018 6:11am
ToolMaker wrote:
The insurance companies are already doing that though right?
Just keep this in your car and get a discount?
Well you can pick your insurance company. The tech is out there and could be implemented easily. I envision this as a possible scenario once self driving cars are pushed onto the masses but more likely it would be GPS tied speed governing.
akillerwombat
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4/26/2018 7:00am
ToolMaker wrote:
The supreme court agrees with you which is why we have sobriety check points. ;) So next time they pull you over, maybe just hold up...
The supreme court agrees with you which is why we have sobriety check points. Wink
So next time they pull you over, maybe just hold up one of your memes and keep driving.
I'm sure they will appreciate that.
Can you really not see the difference between a stationary check point and a police officer pulling someone over on their way home?
ToolMaker
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4/26/2018 3:11pm
ToolMaker wrote:
The supreme court agrees with you which is why we have sobriety check points. ;) So next time they pull you over, maybe just hold up...
The supreme court agrees with you which is why we have sobriety check points. Wink
So next time they pull you over, maybe just hold up one of your memes and keep driving.
I'm sure they will appreciate that.
Can you really not see the difference between a stationary check point and a police officer pulling someone over on their way home?
You say that like they are pulling everyone over. Everyone knows that's just not the case so your point is moot.
It's statistically not possible for them to be "just pulling everyone over", So like any person with half a brain or more
you don't waste your time on low probability vehicles. I can just see it now in the performance review.
Capt. What did you do last night?
Cop Just pulled over every car I saw, didn't get to write any tickets they were all sober.
Capt. WTF, dumb ass!
akillerwombat
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4/26/2018 4:52pm
ToolMaker wrote:
You say that like they are pulling everyone over. Everyone knows that's just not the case so your point is moot. It's statistically not possible for...
You say that like they are pulling everyone over. Everyone knows that's just not the case so your point is moot.
It's statistically not possible for them to be "just pulling everyone over", So like any person with half a brain or more
you don't waste your time on low probability vehicles. I can just see it now in the performance review.
Capt. What did you do last night?
Cop Just pulled over every car I saw, didn't get to write any tickets they were all sober.
Capt. WTF, dumb ass!
No, I say it in a "this car / person looks shady so lets pull them over without a valid reason" way vs a catch all of a DUI check point.

Just look at stop and frisk, same concept, yet the demographics on who is being stopped far more frequently than anyone else is laughably disgusting.
bh84
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4/27/2018 8:06am
The motive is obvious given his facebook post... “The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme...
The motive is obvious given his facebook post...

“The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!”

He's another one of the pathetic losers from reddit/4chan who have become convinced that the reason he can't get a girlfriend is because women are evil shallow creatures who are only interested in "Chads." Therefore he has to do something about this great injustice towards him. I've browsed those forums for many years and there's many people like him who's mindset is delusional and disturbing, they pretty much live in this echochamber where they all convince each other of this bullshit.
I've browsed out of morbid curiosity. Those people are so completely and utterly fucked. To think this asshole killed innocent people because he can't get laid.

I mean, ugly dudes get girls all the time if they have a goddamn personality. You don't have to be a "Chad" to do it.

Pathetic, lazy piece of shit deserves to rot in a hole. Lucky for him he won't be celibate any more, it'll still be involuntary though!
ToolMaker
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4/28/2018 1:46pm
ToolMaker wrote:
You say that like they are pulling everyone over. Everyone knows that's just not the case so your point is moot. It's statistically not possible for...
You say that like they are pulling everyone over. Everyone knows that's just not the case so your point is moot.
It's statistically not possible for them to be "just pulling everyone over", So like any person with half a brain or more
you don't waste your time on low probability vehicles. I can just see it now in the performance review.
Capt. What did you do last night?
Cop Just pulled over every car I saw, didn't get to write any tickets they were all sober.
Capt. WTF, dumb ass!
No, I say it in a "this car / person looks shady so lets pull them over without a valid reason" way vs a catch all...
No, I say it in a "this car / person looks shady so lets pull them over without a valid reason" way vs a catch all of a DUI check point.

Just look at stop and frisk, same concept, yet the demographics on who is being stopped far more frequently than anyone else is laughably disgusting.
Just keep digging that hole deeper huh?
Now police shouldn't be proactive when something doesn't look right or in your words "shady"?
You might be surprised to know that some police are actually very good at their job.
TM
akillerwombat
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Los Angeles, CA US
4/28/2018 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/28/2018 2:40pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Just keep digging that hole deeper huh? Now police shouldn't be proactive when something doesn't look right or in your words "shady"? You might be surprised...
Just keep digging that hole deeper huh?
Now police shouldn't be proactive when something doesn't look right or in your words "shady"?
You might be surprised to know that some police are actually very good at their job.
TM
Who's digging? I have decades of facts to back up my claims... you on the other hand, eh.

As far as pulling people over because they look "shaddy", yes, if the car is swerving, hobbling, looking suspicious please pull them over... but because someone just looks "shady" doesn't mean they should be pulled over. We learned that in the 80 when driving while black in Los Angeles was basically a guarantee you would get stopped... or if you're walking while black in New York you're more likely to get stopped... or if you had tattoo's in the 50's.... and that's pretty fucked up of which the law agrees and have since updated their procedures.

As far as being "surprised there are police that are good at their jobs", without a doubt there are amazing police officers (by far the majority are) but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the bad ones. For what it's worth we have officers on every set (5/6 days a week) and cast officers / actors on a monthly basis and they're all amazing people.

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