Teacher Strikes

If every kid (or adult) possessed the discipline to excel at home/online schooling, every school could run in such an efficient manner that the teachers wouldn't need to strike.

I don't think home/online schooling can work for enough students to make it a viable option at this time.

Having said that I think there could be an adjustment in the school system where students do more online/interactive work during the school day such that students are moved at a speed that is more specific to the individual. This could reduce the number of teachers needed thus lowering the burden on the school district.

It's funny how the more money we throw at the schools the worse they get.
Maybe some change is in order? My guess is that if you throw more money
again, you still won't see any improvement.
Many years ago I spent many business trips to Aus. One of my hosts was
telling me that they were required to spend x amount of hours/days doing
maintenance and or other such improvements at the school his kids were going to.
Here they always say "the rich should pay their fair share" of everything.
Maybe it's time the less than rich should contribute their fair share in labor hours.
If you can't afford to contribute $$s, contribute hours. We'll let you decide which
it is you can contribute.
Hmmm

There is only one other state in the county that pays their teachers less..

But i suppose keeping the kids stupid makes them easier to manipulate..

We just went thru it,
Lot of people, were pissed about it really.
We were the 3rd lowest from the bottom in teacher pay,
The citizens get that.

But, in this state, few are making what they make.
Few get the bennies they get.
Few work less hours than they do.
Few get 3 months off with pay in the summer.
Few have the job security they have.

And many got a bad taste in their mouth when they, the teachers, were standing on the corners, with signs
Saying, " We care about our children".
Yeah, you care, as long as you can still drive a new car. That's what a lot are feeling.

On top of it all, this State is always trying to pass these levies, for the schools, for the children, for the maintance
of the football fields, the buildings, whatever. And more than once, it, the money, ends up going somewhere else,

I dunno, public schooling, imo, toughens a kid up a bit, gets them ready in a lot of ways for real life.
We can't do without them, Hell, half the parents I know aren't qualified one bit to teach their kids math or English.
They don't even know it.

But, they, the teachers, have to realize, this place isn't a New York, or LA.
And they can't be paid that way.

JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:

Seems to be many teacher strikes in the news lately, not sure how to feel about it. I can see both sides of the debate but I am really starting to think internet/home schooling for all might be a better option instead of public schooling. Online/Home schooling could end the problems (just to name a few) with rising school taxes, school safety, school bullying, inappropriate teacher/child relationships, and the students could learn at their own pace and own terms. Would this hurt the social development of the students? How would sports from high school into college adjust? Parents needing to spend more time with their children but also working?





.

Homeschooling is defiantly on the rise big time. Lots of programs starting up that involve them in many group and public school like settings as well. Unfortunately some groups of people like to target, ridicule and marginalize people who choose homeschooling. I guess they find it insulting to some degree. Truth is that most home schooled children (not all) have received a "better" education than if they attended public school.

I wish I could afford to send my kids to the private christian school we have in our area. It's an amazing place but the tuition is insane. But worth it if you can afford it.

rosebud441 wrote:

There is only one other state in the county that pays their teachers less..

You have to look at cost of living and other wages in the area. Not just where they rank nationally.

That's true Borg, Sure, Morgantown, Martinsberg, a few of the bigger cities, a 3 bedroom rancher can go for $150,000
and up. And if you wanna live large, there are places with McMansions.

But, you can drive 20, 30 minutes from those places and buy a nice little place for 60 grand.
WTF?


Flickitflat should have seen them protesting in downtown Morgantown.
I swear, it looked like 1972.
Only things different, it wasn't the war in VietNam, and instead of long hair, it was no hair

Ever see what these superintendents are making ? Some have two assistants making 70-80k a year. 2!!!

Some retire and come back to work for half their salary because they love the children. When in Reality they draw their full retirement. Cash all 30 years of their sick time in and get their new salary. So in essence they gave themselves a huge wage.

So, why can’t that be addressed ?

motogrady wrote:

That's true Borg, Sure, Morgantown, Martinsberg, a few of the bigger cities, a 3 bedroom rancher can go for $150,000
and up. And if you wanna live large, there are places with McMansions.

But, you can drive 20, 30 minutes from those places and buy a nice little place for 60 grand.
WTF?


Flickitflat should have seen them protesting in downtown Morgantown.
I swear, it looked like 1972.
Only things different, it wasn't the war in VietNam, and instead of long hair, it was no hair

I bet it was crazy in Morgantown. It was so funny, in Buckhannon they were in 2 places. They were in full force, looked like parade spectators for a few hours. Then it poured the rain and there were like 5 of them and the rest said screw it by noon. This went on for a few days. Everyone was saying, I thought there was a strike. They would strike for about an hour at a time. It took a lot of sun before there were ever more than 20 again. Then when the thing was over, it looked like a parade crowd again for 2 days. They sure are a fickle bunch.

motogrady wrote:
We just went thru it,
Lot of people, were pissed about it really.
We were the 3rd lowest from the bottom in teacher pay,
The citizens get that.

But, in this state, few are making what they make.
Few get the bennies they get.
Few work less hours than they do.
Few get 3 months off with pay in the summer.
Few have the job security they have.

And many got a bad taste in their mouth when they, the teachers, were standing on the corners, with signs
Saying, " We care about our children".
Yeah, you care, as long as you can still drive a new car. That's what a lot are feeling.

On top of it all, this State is always trying to pass these levies, for the schools, for the children, for the maintance
of the football fields, the buildings, whatever. And more than once, it, the money, ends up going somewhere else,

I dunno, public schooling, imo, toughens a kid up a bit, gets them ready in a lot of ways for real life.
We can't do without them, Hell, half the parents I know aren't qualified one bit to teach their kids math or English.
They don't even know it.

But, they, the teachers, have to realize, this place isn't a New York, or LA.
And they can't be paid that way.

Here's teacher salaries adjusted for cost of living for each state. Doesn't look like they are anywhere close to a New York or California in a relative sense, and certainly not in an absolute dollar sense......

Can't speak for the rest of the country but in many districts in Socal tenure is keeping shitty teachers locked in.

Can’t say I blame them. They’re college educated. They deal with youth who have an entitlement mindset and parents who don’t support the teachers. They work more hours in a year than a regular 40 hour per week job. Have you guys seen the facilities and books that Oklahoma schools have to use? It’s sad. Teachers should definitely be paid more than they are.

FlickitFlat wrote:

I bet it was crazy in Morgantown. It was so funny, in Buckhannon they were in 2 places. They were in full force, looked like parade spectators for a few hours. Then it poured the rain and there were like 5 of them and the rest said screw it by noon. This went on for a few days. Everyone was saying, I thought there was a strike. They would strike for about an hour at a time. It took a lot of sun before there were ever more than 20 again. Then when the thing was over, it looked like a parade crowd again for 2 days. They sure are a fickle bunch.

Buckhannon. I have family there. Lots of memories from that place.

TDeath21 wrote:

Can’t say I blame them. They’re college educated. They deal with youth who have an entitlement mindset and parents who don’t support the teachers. They work more hours in a year than a regular 40 hour per week job. Have you guys seen the facilities and books that Oklahoma schools have to use? It’s sad. Teachers should definitely be paid more than they are.

What's amazing to me is that these teachers didn't look into the profession when deciding to become one. No one forced them to go to college and pick a career where you have to deal with "entitled kids and parents" on a daily bases. I don't think garbage men like smelling trash all day either? I remember when I was in high school almost half the students wanted to be "teachers" because it would be so cool to have summers off and seemed easy at that time. I also remember getting looked down upon because I wanted to learn a trade instead of going to college. We have to remember America is the land of the free and they are free to choose another career path if they don't think the pay/benefits are not good enough for them...... Correct?

JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:

What's amazing to me is that these teachers didn't look into the profession when deciding to become one. No one forced them to go to college and pick a career where you have to deal with "entitled kids and parents" on a daily bases. I don't think garbage men like smelling trash all day either? I remember when I was in high school almost half the students wanted to be "teachers" because it would be so cool to have summers off and seemed easy at that time. I also remember getting looked down upon because I wanted to learn a trade instead of going to college. We have to remember America is the land of the free and they are free to choose another career path if they don't think the pay/benefits are not good enough for them...... Correct?

i get what you're saying, but it's a little backwards thinking.

the world NEEDS teachers but is unwilling to pay them a decent wage. sure kids are at fault for going and racking up the bills through college to become a teacher, but someone needs to do it.

it's like the age-old question. what would you do with a million dollars? it's an exercise. if everyone had a million dollars, there would be no janitors to clean shit up. (Office Space reference)

as for the rest of the topic, kids (16-25) these days fucking suck.

TDeath21 wrote:

Can’t say I blame them. They’re college educated. They deal with youth who have an entitlement mindset and parents who don’t support the teachers. They work more hours in a year than a regular 40 hour per week job. Have you guys seen the facilities and books that Oklahoma schools have to use? It’s sad. Teachers should definitely be paid more than they are.

JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:

What's amazing to me is that these teachers didn't look into the profession when deciding to become one. No one forced them to go to college and pick a career where you have to deal with "entitled kids and parents" on a daily bases. I don't think garbage men like smelling trash all day either? I remember when I was in high school almost half the students wanted to be "teachers" because it would be so cool to have summers off and seemed easy at that time. I also remember getting looked down upon because I wanted to learn a trade instead of going to college. We have to remember America is the land of the free and they are free to choose another career path if they don't think the pay/benefits are not good enough for them...... Correct?

Exactly, dont like it, get another job. Crybaby society.

Teachers could make more if the cities/states would stop being so wasteful with the money they already get from Tax Payers. The Tax Payers are constantly prodded for more money to "help the kids", "help the schools", "increase teacher pay" and on and on.

Very little of those increases actually go to those things.

And so much money is wasted in the construction process. Be it new schools, new police stations, new fire stations, new administrative buildings. etc etc.

So overdone, so much waste...

I don't really know what the solution is because everything is wasted and no thought given to budgeting, reductions, modest spending, smart policies, etc.

It's really easy spending other peoples money.

peelout wrote:

i get what you're saying, but it's a little backwards thinking.

the world NEEDS teachers but is unwilling to pay them a decent wage. sure kids are at fault for going and racking up the bills through college to become a teacher, but someone needs to do it.

it's like the age-old question. what would you do with a million dollars? it's an exercise. if everyone had a million dollars, there would be no janitors to clean shit up. (Office Space reference)

as for the rest of the topic, kids (16-25) these days fucking suck.

Peelout,
I see your side as well but what is the definition of a so called "decent wage" in America today? The world NEEDS a lot of professions not just teachers and they are free to move around the world where needed. All salaries change from town to town in any profession you work in and If you couldn't find a teacher to fill the seat those who do the hiring would be forced to raise salary I would think?

Maybe the career choice wasn't a good one when they have to many qualified for it?

Haven't wages always been based on supply and demand not demand and then supply?

I would feel totally different if it was unsafe working conditions or something of that nature they went on strike for but it just seems its about more money.

Office space is awesome and with a million I would love to "do two chicks at the same time!"

Teachers get 3 months off. I think their wage reflects that. If they feel like they're not making enough money, get a summer job.

My algebra teacher in high school was a dealer for Phantom Fireworks in WV. He was unhappy with what he was making so he did something about it. End of story.

TDeath21 wrote:

Can’t say I blame them. They’re college educated. They deal with youth who have an entitlement mindset and parents who don’t support the teachers. They work more hours in a year than a regular 40 hour per week job. Have you guys seen the facilities and books that Oklahoma schools have to use? It’s sad. Teachers should definitely be paid more than they are.

JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:

What's amazing to me is that these teachers didn't look into the profession when deciding to become one. No one forced them to go to college and pick a career where you have to deal with "entitled kids and parents" on a daily bases. I don't think garbage men like smelling trash all day either? I remember when I was in high school almost half the students wanted to be "teachers" because it would be so cool to have summers off and seemed easy at that time. I also remember getting looked down upon because I wanted to learn a trade instead of going to college. We have to remember America is the land of the free and they are free to choose another career path if they don't think the pay/benefits are not good enough for them...... Correct?

They don’t get as much time off in the summer as you think they do first off. Second off, they’re constantly working on the weekends and evenings during the school year. As I said, they put in far more hours per year than a regular 40 hour per week job.

They become a teacher because they want to make a difference in the future of the country by guiding our youth in the right direction. Thing is, with shitty ass laws like No Child Left Behind and pressure from states and federal governments to get the students to perform, it turns many teachers away. Over half are out of the profession within five years. They get into it and realize that, while they want to make a difference, the deck is completely stacked against them. They’re getting judged by a student’s performance who doesn’t even care about the tests the teacher gets judged on and has no parental support back home. Meanwhile, principals and superintendents make three times as much as teachers do on a regular basis. So many do, as you say, leave the profession.

But there are some in that smaller percentage that still want to make a difference in the children’s lives, regardless of the shit pay and the way they’re treated. They have made the decision that they feel like what will make their lives better is increasing teacher salary so they can keep those many great teachers that leave within five years and updating their books and buildings so they aren’t teaching their kids from a ripped up math book from 1989 in a classroom with the ceiling falling in that smells like shit due to the poor sewage systems in the building.

We ask what’s wrong with kids these days all the time. I do agree that it’s mostly the shitty parenting. But I also think that raising teacher pay will keep those great teachers that leave and go to another job and improving the learning environment will drastically improve their overall life, and in turn the education they receive, which is statistically shown to drastically reduce crime.

Most people aren’t willing to put up with a lot of shit for that sort of pay, you’re right. That’s why so many leave. And with so many leaving, it does in fact lead to too many shitty teachers out there. They’re the ones that just flip on Saving Private Ryan all the time in history class and the students love them because of it. It’s common sense. The less that people want to do something, the harder it is to find people who are good in that profession. One way to find and keep those great people in any profession is to raise the salary. Wouldn’t it make sense then to raise the teacher pay in order to keep the better ones who are actually making a huge difference in the future of our nation instead of watching them leave after a few years for an office job that pays twice as much?

Like I said, the teachers have decided that this is the best way to go for the future of our nation. They obviously see first hand what needs to be done, and they also see great coworkers leave the profession, some of which would have drastically changed many of our youth’s lives for the better. When a crazed maniac gets into a school with a gun and goes on a shooting rampage, we have seen countless times when teachers stand between their students and the gunman and give up their life in the process of saving their students. Can we really put a price on someone that will save your child?

Tdeath said

"Thing is, with shitty ass laws like No Child Left Behind and pressure from states and federal governments to get the students to perform, it turns many teachers away. Over half are out of the profession within five years. They get into it and realize that, while they want to make a difference, the deck is completely stacked against them. They’re getting judged by a student’s performance who doesn’t even care about the tests the teacher gets judged on and has no parental support back home. Meanwhile, principals and superintendents make three times as much as teachers do on a regular basis. So many do, as you say, leave the profession."

The thing is raising teachers pay doesn't change any of that, so how much do you have to raise the pay to combat these points? Is $200 a month gonna make these problems weigh less on the mind of the teachers?

early wrote:

Tdeath said

"Thing is, with shitty ass laws like No Child Left Behind and pressure from states and federal governments to get the students to perform, it turns many teachers away. Over half are out of the profession within five years. They get into it and realize that, while they want to make a difference, the deck is completely stacked against them. They’re getting judged by a student’s performance who doesn’t even care about the tests the teacher gets judged on and has no parental support back home. Meanwhile, principals and superintendents make three times as much as teachers do on a regular basis. So many do, as you say, leave the profession."

The thing is raising teachers pay doesn't change any of that, so how much do you have to raise the pay to combat these points? Is $200 a month gonna make these problems weigh less on the mind of the teachers?

Although you forgot to quote me, I’ll respond.

Having a better learning environment and higher teacher pay does, in fact, drastically improve student performance. If you know how the school system operates, you know that they get a vast majority of their funds from property taxes. Obviously this is a huge advantage for the higher income neighborhoods. They pay their teachers more and have a great learning environment. And wouldn’t you know it .... their test scores are way higher, their graduates are far less likely to lead a life of crime, and their graduates are more successful in their adult life than inner city schools in poor neighborhoods.

TDeath21 wrote:

Although you forgot to quote me, I’ll respond.

Having a better learning environment and higher teacher pay does, in fact, drastically improve student performance. If you know how the school system operates, you know that they get a vast majority of their funds from property taxes. Obviously this is a huge advantage for the higher income neighborhoods. They pay their teachers more and have a great learning environment. And wouldn’t you know it .... their test scores are way higher, their graduates are far less likely to lead a life of crime, and their graduates are more successful in their adult life than inner city schools in poor neighborhoods.

Where I live, inner city school have gotten gotten many improvements to buildings, supplies and meal programs thru state grants and starting teacher salary is higher than in the more well to do districts. There are also student loan repayment programs for those inner city teachers.

Guess where the test scores are better. I'm not saying the teachers are bad or doing anything wrong, the fact of the matter is that a students likelihood of achievement begins well before they set foot on school grounds.

I do however believe that it is very, very important to give as many citizens as possible a high quality basic education. I'm just not convinced raising teacher pay is the most effective way to do that.

Teachers here get an annual salary. They choose if they want the distribution over 9 months or 12. I know too many teachers buying classroom supplies for their students. Too many parents have a sense of self entitlement about this, "I pay taxes, I should have to buy my child school supplies". They spend a week before and after the school year cleaning their classrooms to "open and close" them. Grading papers over Christmas and Spring break. Being called a white fucking bitch by a 7th grade black girl. All she can do is send the kid to the principals office. Another being told she was racist for trying to teach to a white mans standard. Shitty parents in general that don't teach their little fuck trophies any basic rules of conduct or respect. The mental bullshit teachers put up with should be worth another 50% pay raise.

captmoto wrote:

Teachers here get an annual salary. They choose if they want the distribution over 9 months or 12. I know too many teachers buying classroom supplies for their students. Too many parents have a sense of self entitlement about this, "I pay taxes, I should have to buy my child school supplies". They spend a week before and after the school year cleaning their classrooms to "open and close" them. Grading papers over Christmas and Spring break. Being called a white fucking bitch by a 7th grade black girl. All she can do is send the kid to the principals office. Another being told she was racist for trying to teach to a white mans standard. Shitty parents in general that don't teach their little fuck trophies any basic rules of conduct or respect. The mental bullshit teachers put up with should be worth another 50% pay raise.

as i mentioned earlier, kids these days are fucking assholes.

a friend of mine is a middle school teacher in AZ. school policy allows students to bring their phones to class, which is causing her a lot of grief. she's ready to leave the school because of that alone, says it's impossible to get any of them to pay attention. if she threatens to take it she gets a nasty email from a parent. no win situation.

early wrote:

Where I live, inner city school have gotten gotten many improvements to buildings, supplies and meal programs thru state grants and starting teacher salary is higher than in the more well to do districts. There are also student loan repayment programs for those inner city teachers.

Guess where the test scores are better. I'm not saying the teachers are bad or doing anything wrong, the fact of the matter is that a students likelihood of achievement begins well before they set foot on school grounds.

I do however believe that it is very, very important to give as many citizens as possible a high quality basic education. I'm just not convinced raising teacher pay is the most effective way to do that.

Bingo