Taliban crashes Blackhawk helicopter left behind during our speedy withdrawal

Searights
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sandman768
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9/12/2022 3:47pm
Kind of wish we would remember 9/11 with a week long air assault on these cretins……
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Radical
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9/14/2022 2:41pm
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan?
Seriously, there is no reason I can think of to leave our technology in the hands of the enemy.
If we aren't going to take it with us, then we should've destroyed it.
Otherwise, it seems almost unavoidable that some of what was left there will be purchased by China, and Russia for reverse engineering. It makes the free world less secure. Absolutely stupid!
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Searights
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9/14/2022 3:03pm
Agree completely. So irresponsible and just plain stupid.
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tcannon521
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9/14/2022 3:18pm
Radical wrote:
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan? Seriously, there is no reason I can...
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan?
Seriously, there is no reason I can think of to leave our technology in the hands of the enemy.
If we aren't going to take it with us, then we should've destroyed it.
Otherwise, it seems almost unavoidable that some of what was left there will be purchased by China, and Russia for reverse engineering. It makes the free world less secure. Absolutely stupid!
The only logical explanation I've come up with is, we trained the Afghan police and military (for 20 years....) on how to fight with it. Our military leaders must have been confident they would have held back the Taliban push. If we left without leaving them the equipment they trained on, they would have had no chance.

Like most things Afghanistan, damned if do and damned if you don't...
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The Shop

jeffro503
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9/14/2022 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/14/2022 4:02pm
Radical wrote:
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan? Seriously, there is no reason I can...
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan?
Seriously, there is no reason I can think of to leave our technology in the hands of the enemy.
If we aren't going to take it with us, then we should've destroyed it.
Otherwise, it seems almost unavoidable that some of what was left there will be purchased by China, and Russia for reverse engineering. It makes the free world less secure. Absolutely stupid!
tcannon521 wrote:
The only logical explanation I've come up with is, we trained the Afghan police and military (for 20 years....) on how to fight with it. Our...
The only logical explanation I've come up with is, we trained the Afghan police and military (for 20 years....) on how to fight with it. Our military leaders must have been confident they would have held back the Taliban push. If we left without leaving them the equipment they trained on, they would have had no chance.

Like most things Afghanistan, damned if do and damned if you don't...
OR........There is this point of view.

Industrial war complex. They now get paid to build all brand new hi-tech military equipment , and charge us all up the ass in taxes for it. War = money.

Who hear remembers Halliburton? Remember the worlds largest defense contractor? The company who told Generals to pass down the line to just take the air filter off that $500,000 Humvee and let the dust ruin it? The ones who said " Leave all that stuff behind , we'll get more made ". The same company that had our Government pay them back $2.00 for every $1.00 spent?

Leaving 85 billion back in the desert , just made companies like this just shy of $200 Billion!

And were paying for it........AND.......now that the enemies are armed , it'll cost even more to defeat them. Perfect! They did exactly what they wanted to happen. And they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
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reded301
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9/14/2022 4:04pm
Radical wrote:
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan? Seriously, there is no reason I can...
Why the F didn't we at minimum blow up the $85 Billion in military hardware we left in Afghanistan?
Seriously, there is no reason I can think of to leave our technology in the hands of the enemy.
If we aren't going to take it with us, then we should've destroyed it.
Otherwise, it seems almost unavoidable that some of what was left there will be purchased by China, and Russia for reverse engineering. It makes the free world less secure. Absolutely stupid!
tcannon521 wrote:
The only logical explanation I've come up with is, we trained the Afghan police and military (for 20 years....) on how to fight with it. Our...
The only logical explanation I've come up with is, we trained the Afghan police and military (for 20 years....) on how to fight with it. Our military leaders must have been confident they would have held back the Taliban push. If we left without leaving them the equipment they trained on, they would have had no chance.

Like most things Afghanistan, damned if do and damned if you don't...
jeffro503 wrote:
OR........There is this point of view. Industrial war complex. They now get paid to build all brand new hi-tech military equipment , and charge us all...
OR........There is this point of view.

Industrial war complex. They now get paid to build all brand new hi-tech military equipment , and charge us all up the ass in taxes for it. War = money.

Who hear remembers Halliburton? Remember the worlds largest defense contractor? The company who told Generals to pass down the line to just take the air filter off that $500,000 Humvee and let the dust ruin it? The ones who said " Leave all that stuff behind , we'll get more made ". The same company that had our Government pay them back $2.00 for every $1.00 spent?

Leaving 85 billion back in the desert , just made companies like this just shy of $200 Billion!

And were paying for it........AND.......now that the enemies are armed , it'll cost even more to defeat them. Perfect! They did exactly what they wanted to happen. And they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
You forgot the part about kickbacks from Halliburton on a job well done. FJB.
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plowboy
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9/14/2022 4:38pm
I agree that our guys probably thought our Afghan allies needed it to continue the fight. Never considered that the Taliban knew the members of the military and police... where they lived and family members. Take off your uniform and obey or all your loved ones die.

Something you guys may not be aware of...I wasn't till the end of the 1st gulf war...all that equipment is full of middle east seeds, germs, insects, etc. Stuff that could potentially decimate crops here in the US. It all has to be sterilized...which is monumentally expensive.

I also fully believe that the defense industry lobbies hard to just leave it behind. It means contracts for them but,as much of a pill as it is to swallow,. It also means 100's of thousands of direct jobs and millions indirect.

Our taxes buy it but...the great wages provided in the making...I don't know if it's a wash but it's real.
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jeffro503
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9/14/2022 4:54pm
plowboy wrote:
I agree that our guys probably thought our Afghan allies needed it to continue the fight. Never considered that the Taliban knew the members of the...
I agree that our guys probably thought our Afghan allies needed it to continue the fight. Never considered that the Taliban knew the members of the military and police... where they lived and family members. Take off your uniform and obey or all your loved ones die.

Something you guys may not be aware of...I wasn't till the end of the 1st gulf war...all that equipment is full of middle east seeds, germs, insects, etc. Stuff that could potentially decimate crops here in the US. It all has to be sterilized...which is monumentally expensive.

I also fully believe that the defense industry lobbies hard to just leave it behind. It means contracts for them but,as much of a pill as it is to swallow,. It also means 100's of thousands of direct jobs and millions indirect.

Our taxes buy it but...the great wages provided in the making...I don't know if it's a wash but it's real.
Totally get and understand what you're saying PB. But damn.......out of all that money spent on countless war , what if it was directed towards non-war stuff? I don't mean defund the military , as I know we need a strong one , I'm mainly speaking about the massive amounts of waste we we leave behind / destroy. To tell our people out in the field to abandoned and destroy billions and billions of dollars worth of equipment , over and over and over......just so we can fund a new war?

Instead of building things that kill everything , and then waste it on top of that? .......it aint right. I'm all for protecting our country , I'm against the massive waste. Leave behind a 2 million dollar tank , because it might take $5,000.00 to thoroughly clean it? Or a $2500.00 rifle that would take 10 mins to completely sanitize? That's bullshit!
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Radical
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9/14/2022 4:56pm
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the Taliban. It should've been taken, transferred to allies in the area, or destroyed. Every item should still be accounted for and destroyed. Pathetic.
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SEEMEFIRST
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9/14/2022 5:09pm
Radical wrote:
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the...
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the Taliban. It should've been taken, transferred to allies in the area, or destroyed. Every item should still be accounted for and destroyed. Pathetic.
This, the government already knew the afghans weren't in the fight.
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plowboy
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9/14/2022 5:14pm
plowboy wrote:
I agree that our guys probably thought our Afghan allies needed it to continue the fight. Never considered that the Taliban knew the members of the...
I agree that our guys probably thought our Afghan allies needed it to continue the fight. Never considered that the Taliban knew the members of the military and police... where they lived and family members. Take off your uniform and obey or all your loved ones die.

Something you guys may not be aware of...I wasn't till the end of the 1st gulf war...all that equipment is full of middle east seeds, germs, insects, etc. Stuff that could potentially decimate crops here in the US. It all has to be sterilized...which is monumentally expensive.

I also fully believe that the defense industry lobbies hard to just leave it behind. It means contracts for them but,as much of a pill as it is to swallow,. It also means 100's of thousands of direct jobs and millions indirect.

Our taxes buy it but...the great wages provided in the making...I don't know if it's a wash but it's real.
jeffro503 wrote:
Totally get and understand what you're saying PB. But damn.......out of all that money spent on countless war , what if it was directed towards non-war...
Totally get and understand what you're saying PB. But damn.......out of all that money spent on countless war , what if it was directed towards non-war stuff? I don't mean defund the military , as I know we need a strong one , I'm mainly speaking about the massive amounts of waste we we leave behind / destroy. To tell our people out in the field to abandoned and destroy billions and billions of dollars worth of equipment , over and over and over......just so we can fund a new war?

Instead of building things that kill everything , and then waste it on top of that? .......it aint right. I'm all for protecting our country , I'm against the massive waste. Leave behind a 2 million dollar tank , because it might take $5,000.00 to thoroughly clean it? Or a $2500.00 rifle that would take 10 mins to completely sanitize? That's bullshit!
I completely agree. It's insanity. But here's some more of that distasteful reality. Our armed forces simply do not have the personnel to clean this equipment. That means hiring contractors who will charge 3 to 5 times more than your estimates. I know this is true because I worked contracting to clean/recertify the special missions King Air Aircraft returning from Afghanistan/Iraq.

The more concerning problem (in my mind) is the military being forced to buy inferior equipment based solely on political pressure. The recent award to Air Tractor (a highly modified crop duster) for the Armed Overwatch program. There isn't a pilot in the evaluation process that believed this aircraft superior in any way to the competition.

In my experience, when an incapable platform is forced on the service and they still are tasked with a mission...they will backdoor a small batch purchase of equipment that does meet there needs. There's some of your waste.

The military procurement process is so politicized and conveluted it's beyond comprehension.Pinch
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plowboy
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9/14/2022 5:28pm
Radical wrote:
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the...
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the Taliban. It should've been taken, transferred to allies in the area, or destroyed. Every item should still be accounted for and destroyed. Pathetic.
Brother...you are trying to apply logic and common sense to a situation the defies it. What happened in Afghanistan is exactly what happened in the first Gulf War. It also has nothing to do with the president's political affiliation. It has everything to do with that "military industrial complex" that holds far more sway than any party or president.

I don't want to come off as a nut job conspirist...it's a simple matter of money. If you were to add up the worth (influence) of Boeing, Lockheed, Textron and the 1000's of other contractors/subcontractors...it's probably not far off our entire GDP. Money equals influence equals control.
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plowboy
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9/14/2022 5:35pm
If you haven't seen it...the Brad Pitt movie, "War Machine" is funny in an ironic sad kinda view of the war.
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Radical
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9/14/2022 10:37pm
Radical wrote:
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the...
The Taliban had already taken control before all of our citizens had left. There is no excuse to leave it there in the hands of the Taliban. It should've been taken, transferred to allies in the area, or destroyed. Every item should still be accounted for and destroyed. Pathetic.
plowboy wrote:
Brother...you are trying to apply logic and common sense to a situation the defies it. What happened in Afghanistan is exactly what happened in the first...
Brother...you are trying to apply logic and common sense to a situation the defies it. What happened in Afghanistan is exactly what happened in the first Gulf War. It also has nothing to do with the president's political affiliation. It has everything to do with that "military industrial complex" that holds far more sway than any party or president.

I don't want to come off as a nut job conspirist...it's a simple matter of money. If you were to add up the worth (influence) of Boeing, Lockheed, Textron and the 1000's of other contractors/subcontractors...it's probably not far off our entire GDP. Money equals influence equals control.
My understanding is that a group of academics from Universities used to determine what our military should develop next, based on what's needed in the near future for the good and protection of our country. It was a group mostly separate from the developers (Boeing, etc...).
About 10 years ago that changed. Now, the developers determine what to develop. It would be great to assume what's developed is based on our needs, but considering the conflict of interest, it is highly based on what they have to offer, and what they can make a profit from.

This needs to return to the way it was.
9/15/2022 12:33am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2022 12:34am
Somebody do a GIF of Barcia hitting the UH-60 at the apex and then crashing. Label the UH-60 “Ferandis” or“Bagot.”
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ElliotB16
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9/15/2022 5:33am
This is why people hate paying taxes
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9/15/2022 5:56am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2022 5:57am
couple dumb questions/observations,

If Chevy or ford can shut your car down anywhere in the county why couldn't the govt do the same to any war equipment it owns?

if the bugs are an issue couldn't the equipment be moved to a base or country the USA is friendly with in that territory?




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kNewc
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9/15/2022 6:16am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2022 6:17am
We left the equipment because it was "sold" to the Afgani National Army (ANA). The gear and everything technically wasn't ours. We "sold" it to them on the promise we would train them to fight with it. From my understanding, the ANA would rather sell it then fight with it, and even give fuel and equipment directly to the Taliban (either out of fear or loyalty). I've heard stories of them not fighting, running away, selling fuel, etc... They would rather live under the Taliban then fight for their freedom. No matter what the withdrawal was going to be bad because the ANA didn't want to fight for it.
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plowboy
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9/15/2022 6:30am
couple dumb questions/observations, If Chevy or ford can shut your car down anywhere in the county why couldn't the govt do the same to any war...
couple dumb questions/observations,

If Chevy or ford can shut your car down anywhere in the county why couldn't the govt do the same to any war equipment it owns?

if the bugs are an issue couldn't the equipment be moved to a base or country the USA is friendly with in that territory?




There are proceedures for "disabling" equipment when necessary. This particular withdrawal was meant to be (or seen to be) the gifting of war materials to our allies.

If we had brought all that equipment out of the country...the Afghans and the world would have screamed that it was our fault the Taliban took over. It was a no win situation. Probably a big factor in not withdrawing years earlier.

As much as we point fingers and yell "ignorance"...there are some brainy mofo's looking at every possible scenario. When we see a cluster fuck like this...there's a good chance every other option was worse. Sometimes you gotta take your lumps.
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plowboy
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9/15/2022 6:39am
kNewc wrote:
We left the equipment because it was "sold" to the Afgani National Army (ANA). The gear and everything technically wasn't ours. We "sold" it to them...
We left the equipment because it was "sold" to the Afgani National Army (ANA). The gear and everything technically wasn't ours. We "sold" it to them on the promise we would train them to fight with it. From my understanding, the ANA would rather sell it then fight with it, and even give fuel and equipment directly to the Taliban (either out of fear or loyalty). I've heard stories of them not fighting, running away, selling fuel, etc... They would rather live under the Taliban then fight for their freedom. No matter what the withdrawal was going to be bad because the ANA didn't want to fight for it.
Wink
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TXDirt
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9/15/2022 10:34am
Some of you have never moved out of a house on a tight deadline with new owners ready to move in. And it shows!!

Shit gets left behind.

Most of the stuff left there is junk. We’ve been over there 20+ years guys.

An old tank? It’s not even worth bringing it back. A black hawk helicopter? It took them over a year to find other parts laying around before even getting it off the ground. Big whoop.

I’m more pissed about how we left. Not what we left.
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wolf18
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9/15/2022 11:16am
TXDirt wrote:
Some of you have never moved out of a house on a tight deadline with new owners ready to move in. And it shows!! Shit gets...
Some of you have never moved out of a house on a tight deadline with new owners ready to move in. And it shows!!

Shit gets left behind.

Most of the stuff left there is junk. We’ve been over there 20+ years guys.

An old tank? It’s not even worth bringing it back. A black hawk helicopter? It took them over a year to find other parts laying around before even getting it off the ground. Big whoop.

I’m more pissed about how we left. Not what we left.
No actually those motherfuckers had a innocent civilian hanging from a rope as they flew over the city putting him on display. Only after this fucked up administration claimed the blackhawks couldn’t fly again.
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swordfish
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9/15/2022 11:27am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2022 11:29am
TXDirt wrote:
Some of you have never moved out of a house on a tight deadline with new owners ready to move in. And it shows!! Shit gets...
Some of you have never moved out of a house on a tight deadline with new owners ready to move in. And it shows!!

Shit gets left behind.

Most of the stuff left there is junk. We’ve been over there 20+ years guys.

An old tank? It’s not even worth bringing it back. A black hawk helicopter? It took them over a year to find other parts laying around before even getting it off the ground. Big whoop.

I’m more pissed about how we left. Not what we left.
wolf18 wrote:
No actually those motherfuckers had a innocent civilian hanging from a rope as they flew over the city putting him on display. Only after this fucked...
No actually those motherfuckers had a innocent civilian hanging from a rope as they flew over the city putting him on display. Only after this fucked up administration claimed the blackhawks couldn’t fly again.
That was a taliban dude alive and well hanging from a harness. They were trying to put their flag on a 100m high pole.
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SEEMEFIRST
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9/15/2022 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2022 4:28pm
It would be so incredibly easy to render an A/C useless.
Hell, open up the engine cowling and knock a couple of air foils off with a hammer.

But you could go in the "dash" and take a couple of parts out, and no worky without parts and knowledge.

On a fighter, just deploy the ejection seat. Dunzo...
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9/16/2022 3:03am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
It would be so incredibly easy to render an A/C useless. Hell, open up the engine cowling and knock a couple of air foils off with...
It would be so incredibly easy to render an A/C useless.
Hell, open up the engine cowling and knock a couple of air foils off with a hammer.

But you could go in the "dash" and take a couple of parts out, and no worky without parts and knowledge.

On a fighter, just deploy the ejection seat. Dunzo...
How about “bananas” in the tailpipes. By bananas I mean grenades.

Seems pretty easy and I’m sure there were more of those laying around than aircraft.
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scott_nz
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9/16/2022 2:44pm
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying ,


I mean Iran has f14s from when they were a USA Allie , do they make their own spares ?
swordfish
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9/16/2022 4:44pm
scott_nz wrote:
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying , I mean Iran has f14s from...
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying ,


I mean Iran has f14s from when they were a USA Allie , do they make their own spares ?
Yes and new weapons platforms they have adapted.
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plowboy
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9/16/2022 6:52pm
scott_nz wrote:
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying , I mean Iran has f14s from...
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying ,


I mean Iran has f14s from when they were a USA Allie , do they make their own spares ?
I haven't paid attention to this. Do the Iranians still have flyable F14's? We got rid of them because we couldn't afford to keep 'em flying.

Here's something an engineer told me long ago. When you plug in fuel and weapons load...top speed, take off and landing speed requirements, maneuverability into a computer...it will say a sweep wing aircraft is the only option...and it is. The problem is maintainability. Just too damn many moving parts and points of failure.
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swordfish
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9/17/2022 3:14am
scott_nz wrote:
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying , I mean Iran has f14s from...
Always wondered how these programmes work, it takes a huge parts and service infrastructure to keep these things flying ,


I mean Iran has f14s from when they were a USA Allie , do they make their own spares ?
plowboy wrote:
I haven't paid attention to this. Do the Iranians still have flyable F14's? We got rid of them because we couldn't afford to keep 'em flying...
I haven't paid attention to this. Do the Iranians still have flyable F14's? We got rid of them because we couldn't afford to keep 'em flying.

Here's something an engineer told me long ago. When you plug in fuel and weapons load...top speed, take off and landing speed requirements, maneuverability into a computer...it will say a sweep wing aircraft is the only option...and it is. The problem is maintainability. Just too damn many moving parts and points of failure.
Yes and plan to keep the fleet flying for well into the future.

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