Speaking of states rights…..

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6/27/2022 2:28 PM

plowboy wrote:

I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never seen ...more

dkurtd wrote:

The last time I remember water running in Dodge was probably around 1984 or 1985. I think that's the last time they had so ...more

plowboy wrote:

The Arkansas has plenty of water through Wichita...where does that water come from...not Colorado for sure. The Chicaskia and ...more

Yes, the Walnut, Cow Creek, and a little from the Little Arkansas. Water starts picking back up at Great Bend and increases over by Hutch. Nothing from Garden to Great Bend.

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6/27/2022 2:35 PM

BMSOBx2 wrote:

The barrel is what we kept the fresh water in.laughing

That ain't the barrel I've heard about.

Young kid joins the Navy and out to sea he goes. A few weeks out he asks his boss what to do for sexual release. Boss takes him down to a room in the belly of the ship. There is a barrel with a hole about waist high. Boss says, "stick yer johnny in that hole and you'll get relief".

Not long and the kids visiting the barrel twice a day. One day, he plugs into the barrel and nothing happens. He runs to his boss and tells him something is wrong with the barrel. Boss laughs and says, "Nothing wrong...it's just your turn in the barrel".

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/27/2022 2:42 PM

dkurtd wrote:

Yes, the Walnut, Cow Creek, and a little from the Little Arkansas. Water starts picking back up at Great Bend and increases ...more

One of the best catfishin' places I've ever seen is the stretch between where the Chicaskia/Ninneschah dump into the Salt Fork and it dumps into the Arkansas...Blackwell Ok area. Indian res on one side... private on the other. I used to fill my freezer every spring with beautiful channel cats. That salty water really cleaned them out.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/27/2022 2:55 PM

The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let alone the ability to furnish water for drinking and hygiene, become a huge problem for the nation as a whole and would the federal government ultimately invoke some sort of 'eminent domain' action in order to move water from east to west?

Does the decline in irrigation reduce our ability to produce enough domestic food so much that it becomes a matter of national security? I'm not sure if everyone realizes that the state of California produces over half of the entire country's domestic fresh produce supply. Here's an example of vegetable production by state.......

Photo

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6/27/2022 3:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/27/2022 3:10 PM

Sully wrote:

Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more ...more

BMSOBx2 wrote:

You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators ...more

Sully wrote:

Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS ...more

CVN-71 98-01 Could take as many showers as I wanted 😂

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6/27/2022 3:27 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let ...more

I've been there and seen it. It's hard to imagine unless you've laid eyes on how vast it is.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/27/2022 5:27 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let ...more

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/27/2022 6:34 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more ...more

Damn Texicanssilly

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/27/2022 7:05 PM

early wrote:

Separate but related, alot of produce comes from Mexico, do you know where most of those farms are? If they are in the arid ...more

Wells. Wells are expensive land is cheap

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6/27/2022 8:23 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let ...more

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more ...more

plowboy wrote:

Damn Texicanssilly

w00t
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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/27/2022 11:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/27/2022 11:19 PM

What gets me is that building and development seems to go unchecked. It's stupid in SoCal. I'm getting notices from my water company to reduce my sprinkle usage and can see new developments going up all around me.
Show me the money I guess.

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The older I get, the faster I was.

6/27/2022 11:22 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more ...more

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.

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The older I get, the faster I was.

6/28/2022 5:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/28/2022 5:25 AM

captmoto wrote:

What gets me is that building and development seems to go unchecked. It's stupid in SoCal. I'm getting notices from my water ...more

That's been going on there for decades.
Grew up in Santee.
Same story, back in the early 70's.
Don't wash your car, or water your lawn, but the subdivision out by the carlton oaks country club just kept growing.

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#FMS

6/28/2022 7:36 AM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let ...more

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more ...more

captmoto wrote:

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).

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Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

6/28/2022 11:37 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a ...more

Damn Manny...you're usually on the near opposite end of the political scale from me but...when I find some common ground with an old boy...I ain't too bull headed to let 'em know. Well said and sensible.

I see the log jam as being each separate business interest (crop, cattle, hog, poultry, etc) fighting each other over resources, subsidies, legislation. I guess you could throw oil/gas in there too. They're all too self interested to realise that the more ALL facets of American business and industry thrive...the nation becomes stronger and we ALL have better lives.

I don't mind being called naive or even stupid but I still believe in my heart that when/if we have folks with integrity and ethics in elected office...this nation has no bounds or limits. It's a crying shame how we've let partanship, self interest, greed and corruption sully our greatness.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/28/2022 11:58 AM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more ...more

captmoto wrote:

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.

TeamGreen wrote:

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a ...more

The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize that our ample water and wind-generated electricity could to make the Central Valley obsolete.

Of course, that's going to be Big Ag.

And small cow/calf operations farms still exist all through North Iowa. It's a drop in the bucket as part of the total supply, but it's still there. Look for 1000 Hills beef.

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6/28/2022 4:04 PM

captmoto wrote:

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.

TeamGreen wrote:

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a ...more

DaveB771 wrote:

The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest ...more

The farmers in the Netherlands are torching stuff , to protest at the Govt reducing fertilizer use, specifically nitrogen, by 30% by shutting land down.

They are fucked up

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The only exercise i get these days, is shaking my head in disbelief

6/28/2022 4:44 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more ...more

captmoto wrote:

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.

TeamGreen wrote:

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a ...more

There are a lot of beefs in there, and some I agree with wholeheartedly. But most of it doesn’t really affect the fact that this drought would result in a huge decrease in water available no matter the ‘politics’ involved. And no matter who is farming the ground, corporations or families, the state of the water supply would be very low right now.

The biggest ‘political’ issue in this entire situation is whether or not this becomes a case of the federal government asserting that our water resources belong to our entire nation, or to individual states. That’s going to be a huge ideological battle, but if California’s produce production were to ‘go away’ (or even be reduced by 25-50%) there simply isn’t the ability for the rest of the states to replace that food.

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6/28/2022 4:52 PM

captmoto wrote:

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.

TeamGreen wrote:

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a ...more

DaveB771 wrote:

The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest ...more

The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall production of California. The climate in the Central Valley is the real key to the long growing seasons, etc. It really is crazy when you think about it. That relatively small area accounts for 70%+ of the fruits and vegetables for our entire nation. As in, more than twice of all the other 49 states combined.

Definitely makes you think that we should be encouraging more farming in other areas around the country that could sustain it. Running out of water for California is going to affect everyone, unfortunately.

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6/28/2022 5:12 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall ...more

I've tried to express this many times. Folks have NO idea how vast and productive the central valley is. I dig the shit out of traveling the country. There isn't much I haven't seen...and I never get tired of the majesty. The endless wheat fields from Texas to Canada. The huge soy bean and corn fields in Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa. The massive cattle feed lots in Kansas, Nebraska, and Texas. Everyone of those enterprises that sustain life in this country depends on WATER. Someone better figure this out.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/28/2022 5:13 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a ...more

DaveB771 wrote:

The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest ...more

APLMAN99 wrote:

The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall ...more

Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin.

You can grow all you want, but if you can't move it or process it, it really doesn't matter.

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/28/2022 5:16 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin.

You can grow all ...more

They are paper handcuffs my brother. Don't let the oil boys lead you too far astray. We need it...they got it. Things will work out ok...I promise.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/28/2022 5:25 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall ...more

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin.

You can grow all ...more

plowboy wrote:

They are paper handcuffs my brother. Don't let the oil boys lead you too far astray. We need it...they got it. Things will ...more

Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/28/2022 5:40 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?

The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increasesilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before the EPA required pits. We let the oil and sulfuric acid from fracking flow into the streams and rivers. I saw thousands of dead fish and birds. I didn't give a fuck...I had eats to put on the table.

I ain't that same guy anymore. It actually means something to me that there is a planet for my grandkids to enjoy...or at least survive on.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/28/2022 6:38 PM

plowboy wrote:

They are paper handcuffs my brother. Don't let the oil boys lead you too far astray. We need it...they got it. Things will ...more

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?

plowboy wrote:

The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increasesilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I ...more

Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/28/2022 6:44 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?

plowboy wrote:

The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increasesilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I ...more

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.

And then there’s Austin…

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Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

6/28/2022 6:55 PM

plowboy wrote:

The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increasesilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I ...more

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.

TeamGreen wrote:

And then there’s Austin…

Ugh....

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/28/2022 7:03 PM

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.

I been every where manwink

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

6/28/2022 8:11 PM

Copy.

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

6/29/2022 8:23 PM

dkurtd wrote:

There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against ...more

plowboy wrote:

I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never seen ...more

That's because the aquifer has been drained, so the river water drains into the ground between Deerfield and Garden City usually. Then it starts flowing again at Larned where the Pawnee dumps into it.

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I work to provide for my family, I ride to keep my sanity.