Speaking of states rights…..

plowboy
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Norwich, KS US
6/27/2022 2:35pm
BMSOBx2 wrote:
The barrel is what we kept the fresh water in.Laughing
That ain't the barrel I've heard about.

Young kid joins the Navy and out to sea he goes. A few weeks out he asks his boss what to do for sexual release. Boss takes him down to a room in the belly of the ship. There is a barrel with a hole about waist high. Boss says, "stick yer johnny in that hole and you'll get relief".

Not long and the kids visiting the barrel twice a day. One day, he plugs into the barrel and nothing happens. He runs to his boss and tells him something is wrong with the barrel. Boss laughs and says, "Nothing wrong...it's just your turn in the barrel".
plowboy
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6/27/2022 2:42pm
dkurtd wrote:
Yes, the Walnut, Cow Creek, and a little from the Little Arkansas. Water starts picking back up at Great Bend and increases over by Hutch. Nothing...
Yes, the Walnut, Cow Creek, and a little from the Little Arkansas. Water starts picking back up at Great Bend and increases over by Hutch. Nothing from Garden to Great Bend.
One of the best catfishin' places I've ever seen is the stretch between where the Chicaskia/Ninneschah dump into the Salt Fork and it dumps into the Arkansas...Blackwell Ok area. Indian res on one side... private on the other. I used to fill my freezer every spring with beautiful channel cats. That salty water really cleaned them out.
APLMAN99
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Dallas, TX US
6/27/2022 2:55pm
The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let alone the ability to furnish water for drinking and hygiene, become a huge problem for the nation as a whole and would the federal government ultimately invoke some sort of 'eminent domain' action in order to move water from east to west?

Does the decline in irrigation reduce our ability to produce enough domestic food so much that it becomes a matter of national security? I'm not sure if everyone realizes that the state of California produces over half of the entire country's domestic fresh produce supply. Here's an example of vegetable production by state.......


1
1
crowe660
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2005
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US
Fantasy
3962nd
6/27/2022 3:10pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2022 3:10pm
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
Sully wrote:
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty...
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty Hawk (commissioned in 1961) from '98 - '01, we had desalinators onboard and never had to ration our water.
CVN-71 98-01 Could take as many showers as I wanted 😂
1

The Shop

plowboy
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6/27/2022 3:27pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let alone the...
The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let alone the ability to furnish water for drinking and hygiene, become a huge problem for the nation as a whole and would the federal government ultimately invoke some sort of 'eminent domain' action in order to move water from east to west?

Does the decline in irrigation reduce our ability to produce enough domestic food so much that it becomes a matter of national security? I'm not sure if everyone realizes that the state of California produces over half of the entire country's domestic fresh produce supply. Here's an example of vegetable production by state.......


I've been there and seen it. It's hard to imagine unless you've laid eyes on how vast it is.
1
SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX US
6/27/2022 5:27pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let alone the...
The big question that sticks out to me is, at what point does the loss of crops from California and other western states, let alone the ability to furnish water for drinking and hygiene, become a huge problem for the nation as a whole and would the federal government ultimately invoke some sort of 'eminent domain' action in order to move water from east to west?

Does the decline in irrigation reduce our ability to produce enough domestic food so much that it becomes a matter of national security? I'm not sure if everyone realizes that the state of California produces over half of the entire country's domestic fresh produce supply. Here's an example of vegetable production by state.......


Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

1
plowboy
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Norwich, KS US
6/27/2022 6:34pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem. Why hasn't California been more worried...
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

Damn TexicansSilly
e-wa
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66
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Location
Pasco, WA US
6/27/2022 7:05pm
early wrote:
Separate but related, alot of produce comes from Mexico, do you know where most of those farms are? If they are in the arid regions how...
Separate but related, alot of produce comes from Mexico, do you know where most of those farms are? If they are in the arid regions how do they handle water?
Wells. Wells are expensive land is cheap
1
SEEMEFIRST
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10965
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Arlington, TX US
6/27/2022 8:23pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem. Why hasn't California been more worried...
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

plowboy wrote:
Damn TexicansSilly
Woohoo
captmoto
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
6/27/2022 11:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/27/2022 11:19pm
What gets me is that building and development seems to go unchecked. It's stupid in SoCal. I'm getting notices from my water company to reduce my sprinkle usage and can see new developments going up all around me.
Show me the money I guess.
7
captmoto
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
6/27/2022 11:22pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem. Why hasn't California been more worried...
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.
1
1
Joey_Bridges
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Kingston, TN US
6/28/2022 5:24am Edited Date/Time 6/28/2022 5:25am
captmoto wrote:
What gets me is that building and development seems to go unchecked. It's stupid in SoCal. I'm getting notices from my water company to reduce my...
What gets me is that building and development seems to go unchecked. It's stupid in SoCal. I'm getting notices from my water company to reduce my sprinkle usage and can see new developments going up all around me.
Show me the money I guess.
That's been going on there for decades.
Grew up in Santee.
Same story, back in the early 70's.
Don't wash your car, or water your lawn, but the subdivision out by the carlton oaks country club just kept growing.
1
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
6/28/2022 7:36am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem. Why hasn't California been more worried...
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

captmoto wrote:
Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
6
3
plowboy
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Norwich, KS US
6/28/2022 11:37am
TeamGreen wrote:
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley...
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
Damn Manny...you're usually on the near opposite end of the political scale from me but...when I find some common ground with an old boy...I ain't too bull headed to let 'em know. Well said and sensible.

I see the log jam as being each separate business interest (crop, cattle, hog, poultry, etc) fighting each other over resources, subsidies, legislation. I guess you could throw oil/gas in there too. They're all too self interested to realise that the more ALL facets of American business and industry thrive...the nation becomes stronger and we ALL have better lives.

I don't mind being called naive or even stupid but I still believe in my heart that when/if we have folks with integrity and ethics in elected office...this nation has no bounds or limits. It's a crying shame how we've let partanship, self interest, greed and corruption sully our greatness.
1
DaveB771
Posts
183
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Location
Minneapolis, MN US
6/28/2022 11:58am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem. Why hasn't California been more worried...
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

captmoto wrote:
Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.
TeamGreen wrote:
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley...
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize that our ample water and wind-generated electricity could to make the Central Valley obsolete.

Of course, that's going to be Big Ag.

And small cow/calf operations farms still exist all through North Iowa. It's a drop in the bucket as part of the total supply, but it's still there. Look for 1000 Hills beef.
philG
Posts
9630
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
6/28/2022 4:04pm
captmoto wrote:
Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.
TeamGreen wrote:
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley...
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
DaveB771 wrote:
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize...
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize that our ample water and wind-generated electricity could to make the Central Valley obsolete.

Of course, that's going to be Big Ag.

And small cow/calf operations farms still exist all through North Iowa. It's a drop in the bucket as part of the total supply, but it's still there. Look for 1000 Hills beef.
The farmers in the Netherlands are torching stuff , to protest at the Govt reducing fertilizer use, specifically nitrogen, by 30% by shutting land down.

They are fucked up
APLMAN99
Posts
10055
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
6/28/2022 4:44pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem. Why hasn't California been more worried...
Not going to argue that. I really don't have a dog in this one, but this isn't a new problem.
Why hasn't California been more worried about this sooner?

A fight I do have a dog in is the Perrmian Basin.
The EPA is posturing to do some real damage to the oil production there.

Like your farm numbers, the Basin accounts for about 40% of the US production.

captmoto wrote:
Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.
TeamGreen wrote:
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley...
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
There are a lot of beefs in there, and some I agree with wholeheartedly. But most of it doesn’t really affect the fact that this drought would result in a huge decrease in water available no matter the ‘politics’ involved. And no matter who is farming the ground, corporations or families, the state of the water supply would be very low right now.

The biggest ‘political’ issue in this entire situation is whether or not this becomes a case of the federal government asserting that our water resources belong to our entire nation, or to individual states. That’s going to be a huge ideological battle, but if California’s produce production were to ‘go away’ (or even be reduced by 25-50%) there simply isn’t the ability for the rest of the states to replace that food.
1
1
APLMAN99
Posts
10055
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Dallas, TX US
6/28/2022 4:52pm
captmoto wrote:
Too worried about saving the Delta Smelt, Social Justice and prison reform.
TeamGreen wrote:
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley...
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
DaveB771 wrote:
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize...
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize that our ample water and wind-generated electricity could to make the Central Valley obsolete.

Of course, that's going to be Big Ag.

And small cow/calf operations farms still exist all through North Iowa. It's a drop in the bucket as part of the total supply, but it's still there. Look for 1000 Hills beef.
The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall production of California. The climate in the Central Valley is the real key to the long growing seasons, etc. It really is crazy when you think about it. That relatively small area accounts for 70%+ of the fruits and vegetables for our entire nation. As in, more than twice of all the other 49 states combined.

Definitely makes you think that we should be encouraging more farming in other areas around the country that could sustain it. Running out of water for California is going to affect everyone, unfortunately.
1
plowboy
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6/28/2022 5:12pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall production of California. The climate...
The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall production of California. The climate in the Central Valley is the real key to the long growing seasons, etc. It really is crazy when you think about it. That relatively small area accounts for 70%+ of the fruits and vegetables for our entire nation. As in, more than twice of all the other 49 states combined.

Definitely makes you think that we should be encouraging more farming in other areas around the country that could sustain it. Running out of water for California is going to affect everyone, unfortunately.
I've tried to express this many times. Folks have NO idea how vast and productive the central valley is. I dig the shit out of traveling the country. There isn't much I haven't seen...and I never get tired of the majesty. The endless wheat fields from Texas to Canada. The huge soy bean and corn fields in Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa. The massive cattle feed lots in Kansas, Nebraska, and Texas. Everyone of those enterprises that sustain life in this country depends on WATER. Someone better figure this out.
SEEMEFIRST
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6/28/2022 5:13pm
TeamGreen wrote:
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley...
All jokes aside, it simply IS bad-stupid-insane politics. Water rationing/strict enforcement in the ag sector HAS been a serious problem for years...especially in California's Central Valley. That really should read "against the ag sector" if it were meant to be honest and correct.

This has already impacted crops/prices that your getting at your local market. From Almonds to Wine Grapes to Cattle. Once, a long time ago or so it seems, cotton was grown in our central valley. A LOT of high quality cotton; but, no more. Between the "cost of water" and imported crap, cotton went away.

I'm sure that the way the enviros and big city politicians have manipulated this situation is going to be an example of something that will soon invade ALL of our domestic ag. It's on the same page as all that "Green New Deal" crap that they're spewing when we ask about energy or the economy. Yup, over the last few months, EVERY-TIME I hear or see our Sec-Energy speak? She's going off about Joe's Green BS. Same goes for Sec-Def, Sec-Int and...get this...even the Sec-Treasury & other economic advisors...who, if I'm not mistaken...should be trying to FOCUS on the Economy, Inflation and things like the CPI...?

But, no. They're busy going off to the G7 and running their mouths about the VERY SAME GRAIN and other food-stuffs that they COULD BE & SHOULD BE GROWING AT HOME by the Mega-Metric Ton (Btw, it should be G8; but, one of their buddies is busy KILLING PEOPLE in The Ukraine).

Imagine if this administration REALLY cared about our domestic ag industry AND the American people enough to "take the gloves off" and make provisions for farmers and ranchers?

Simple things like...
Provide AFFORDABLE Red Diesel/fuel/energy thru an actual LEGITIMATE "subsidy program".
Provide necessary and reasonable water supplies (that's mostly a western states thing).
REGULATE "Factory Farming" that is pushing the little guy out...LITERALLY!!!
(Hey, did Manny ACTUALLY jus' type that? YES! he did!).
Have the USDA/FDA/Labor/Homeland/Treasury-Commerce Depts ACTUALLY DO THEIR F'ING JOBS and ENFORCE Health, Labor, Justice, Trade AND IMMIGRATION laws as they are EMPLOYED TO DO!

If...I say..."IF"...we were truly concerned about The Environment AND "Global Food Supply" ...we could fix soooooo much of it just by being good stewards of our own Ag Industry.

We are SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS.

About Immigration: It's time to get back to "worker programs" that allow and provide for workers from Mexico to come to the USA...LEGALLY...and work. I mean...damn...The Congress REALLY SUCKS (Both Houses!).
DaveB771 wrote:
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize...
The Netherlands provide a great deal of the fresh produce sold in Europe and its grown indoors. Pretty soon the upper Midwest is going to realize that our ample water and wind-generated electricity could to make the Central Valley obsolete.

Of course, that's going to be Big Ag.

And small cow/calf operations farms still exist all through North Iowa. It's a drop in the bucket as part of the total supply, but it's still there. Look for 1000 Hills beef.
APLMAN99 wrote:
The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall production of California. The climate...
The upper Midwest may have the ability to increase production some, but the climate simply isn’t there to replace the overall production of California. The climate in the Central Valley is the real key to the long growing seasons, etc. It really is crazy when you think about it. That relatively small area accounts for 70%+ of the fruits and vegetables for our entire nation. As in, more than twice of all the other 49 states combined.

Definitely makes you think that we should be encouraging more farming in other areas around the country that could sustain it. Running out of water for California is going to affect everyone, unfortunately.
Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin.

You can grow all you want, but if you can't move it or process it, it really doesn't matter.
2
plowboy
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6/28/2022 5:16pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin. You can grow all you want, but if...
Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin.

You can grow all you want, but if you can't move it or process it, it really doesn't matter.
They are paper handcuffs my brother. Don't let the oil boys lead you too far astray. We need it...they got it. Things will work out ok...I promise.
SEEMEFIRST
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Location
Arlington, TX US
6/28/2022 5:25pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin. You can grow all you want, but if...
Yet here we are getting ready to handcuff the oil industry with ozone restrictions in the Permian basin.

You can grow all you want, but if you can't move it or process it, it really doesn't matter.
plowboy wrote:
They are paper handcuffs my brother. Don't let the oil boys lead you too far astray. We need it...they got it. Things will work out ok...I...
They are paper handcuffs my brother. Don't let the oil boys lead you too far astray. We need it...they got it. Things will work out ok...I promise.
Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?
plowboy
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6/28/2022 5:40pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increaseSilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before the EPA required pits. We let the oil and sulfuric acid from fracking flow into the streams and rivers. I saw thousands of dead fish and birds. I didn't give a fuck...I had eats to put on the table.

I ain't that same guy anymore. It actually means something to me that there is a planet for my grandkids to enjoy...or at least survive on.
SEEMEFIRST
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6/28/2022 6:38pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?
plowboy wrote:
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increase:silly: of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before...
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increaseSilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before the EPA required pits. We let the oil and sulfuric acid from fracking flow into the streams and rivers. I saw thousands of dead fish and birds. I didn't give a fuck...I had eats to put on the table.

I ain't that same guy anymore. It actually means something to me that there is a planet for my grandkids to enjoy...or at least survive on.
Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.
2
TeamGreen
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Location
Thru-out, CA US
6/28/2022 6:44pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Yeah but if the government makes the production more expensive, what do you think happens?
plowboy wrote:
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increase:silly: of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before...
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increaseSilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before the EPA required pits. We let the oil and sulfuric acid from fracking flow into the streams and rivers. I saw thousands of dead fish and birds. I didn't give a fuck...I had eats to put on the table.

I ain't that same guy anymore. It actually means something to me that there is a planet for my grandkids to enjoy...or at least survive on.
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.
And then there’s Austin…
1
SEEMEFIRST
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10965
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Location
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6/28/2022 6:55pm
plowboy wrote:
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increase:silly: of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before...
The magnanimous oil companies will absorb the increaseSilly of course the price will increase...I get what you're putting out. I worked the patch way back before the EPA required pits. We let the oil and sulfuric acid from fracking flow into the streams and rivers. I saw thousands of dead fish and birds. I didn't give a fuck...I had eats to put on the table.

I ain't that same guy anymore. It actually means something to me that there is a planet for my grandkids to enjoy...or at least survive on.
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.
TeamGreen wrote:
And then there’s Austin…
Ugh....
plowboy
Posts
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Norwich, KS US
6/28/2022 7:03pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Ever been in the Permian Basin?

There ain't shit out there for miles.

Dallas is doing more damage if we're keeping score.
I been every where manWink
Timo
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Wichita, KS US
6/29/2022 8:23pm
dkurtd wrote:
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River...
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River. The suit brought in 1985 took 24 years to finally make it to the SCOTUS and Colorado held to account.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_v._Colorado


The only way I see there ever being a pipeline is if it's from water that was about to be dumped into the ocean. So, figure out how you get water from New Orleans to Colorado/Utah.
plowboy wrote:
I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never...
I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never seen it running out in western Kansas.
That's because the aquifer has been drained, so the river water drains into the ground between Deerfield and Garden City usually. Then it starts flowing again at Larned where the Pawnee dumps into it.
plowboy
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6/30/2022 5:56am
Timo wrote:
That's because the aquifer has been drained, so the river water drains into the ground between Deerfield and Garden City usually. Then it starts flowing again...
That's because the aquifer has been drained, so the river water drains into the ground between Deerfield and Garden City usually. Then it starts flowing again at Larned where the Pawnee dumps into it.
Gotcha

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