Speaking of states rights…..

Prntscrn
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6/27/2022 9:04am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2022 9:05am
mvd61 wrote:
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
This is a provocative take
plowboy
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6/27/2022 9:08am
LoudLove wrote:
We called them “John Wayne showers”. And I was on the FID and TR in the 90’s!
Is that similar to John Wayne toilet paper? Rough and tough and won't take shit off anybody?Woohoo
early
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6/27/2022 9:33am
Chance1216 wrote:
Just looking at the difference in average water temperature, there will be a significant loss of life. The Colorado is 50*, while the Mississippi is roughly...
Just looking at the difference in average water temperature, there will be a significant loss of life. The Colorado is 50*, while the Mississippi is roughly 75*.
Not to mention if you decrease the flow of the Miss saltwater would flow higher into the Mississippi River delta.
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philG
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6/27/2022 9:40am
How about you just stop growing almonds?

3

The Shop

Chance1216
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6/27/2022 9:44am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

One gallon of water per almond seed is what it takes for them to grow.
plowboy
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6/27/2022 9:48am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

Chance1216 wrote:
One gallon of water per almond seed is what it takes for them to grow.
How many seeds on a tree...3 or 4?Silly
Chance1216
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6/27/2022 9:50am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

Chance1216 wrote:
One gallon of water per almond seed is what it takes for them to grow.
plowboy wrote:
How many seeds on a tree...3 or 4?Silly
Only if the guys harvesting aren’t snacking while they work 🤣
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plowboy
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6/27/2022 9:52am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming on that scale.
early
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6/27/2022 9:57am
plowboy wrote:
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming...
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming on that scale.
Separate but related, alot of produce comes from Mexico, do you know where most of those farms are? If they are in the arid regions how do they handle water?
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ToolMaker
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6/27/2022 10:05am
Chance1216 wrote:
Just looking at the difference in average water temperature, there will be a significant loss of life. The Colorado is 50*, while the Mississippi is roughly...
Just looking at the difference in average water temperature, there will be a significant loss of life. The Colorado is 50*, while the Mississippi is roughly 75*.
I would take days to get there, so not much of an issue.
TM
ToolMaker
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6/27/2022 10:13am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

plowboy wrote:
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming...
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming on that scale.
Here's how effed up it is.There was a grower (central valley) that during the rainy season created dams to flood his property so the water would soak into the ground and help start raising the water table. He did this for a while to test
if crops would grow the next year after the flood or if it would damage the balance of the soil. Turns out, crops grew just fine. He then started advocating the other growers do the same. Then guess what, the state came along and said that he had to take the dams down because the rain water was not his.
In Oceanside and also several of our surrounding communities it's illegal to capture rain water and use later.
What do you do with that?
TM
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ToolMaker
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6/27/2022 10:20am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado...
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an abundance to other areas that need it. As far as desal goes, I think Countries like Sauida Arabia are supplied mostly with desal water. So it is doable. So much technology and we can't create a simple solution, WTF?
TM
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mvd61
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6/27/2022 10:33am
mvd61 wrote:
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
Prntscrn wrote:
This is a provocative take
Glad you edited the golf is life out. Moto is life.
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mvd61
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6/27/2022 10:35am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado...
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
ToolMaker wrote:
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an...
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an abundance to other areas that need it. As far as desal goes, I think Countries like Sauida Arabia are supplied mostly with desal water. So it is doable. So much technology and we can't create a simple solution, WTF?
TM
If they let them use a simple solution then a water shortage would be one less thing they could control us with.
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APLMAN99
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6/27/2022 10:35am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

plowboy wrote:
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming...
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming on that scale.
ToolMaker wrote:
Here's how effed up it is.There was a grower (central valley) that during the rainy season created dams to flood his property so the water would...
Here's how effed up it is.There was a grower (central valley) that during the rainy season created dams to flood his property so the water would soak into the ground and help start raising the water table. He did this for a while to test
if crops would grow the next year after the flood or if it would damage the balance of the soil. Turns out, crops grew just fine. He then started advocating the other growers do the same. Then guess what, the state came along and said that he had to take the dams down because the rain water was not his.
In Oceanside and also several of our surrounding communities it's illegal to capture rain water and use later.
What do you do with that?
TM
There are a lot of different issues there, and some of them have some valid concerns. Others may not seem like it, though.

Building dams sounds like a harmless thing but what happens when the dams fail and unleash a lot more water than would normally flow all at once? We have some of those same issues up here with orchardists installing ponds that they use for frost control in the spring or for evaporative cooling in the summer. After having seen the fallout of a poorly constructed pond, I fully understand the need for those things to be built correctly, and licensed properly.

As to whether the rainwater is owned by an individual, that's a tougher one. It seems like a silly question, but consider what would occur if someone were to claim that they were using the river running through their property as their collection vessel, dammed the river, and all of the downstream users were now shut out of the river flow? Obviously that isn't going to happen with a residential system and as far as I can tell nearly everywhere allows for residential rainwater collection systems, although they may have to be permitted first.

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mvd61
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6/27/2022 10:38am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado...
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
ToolMaker wrote:
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an...
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an abundance to other areas that need it. As far as desal goes, I think Countries like Sauida Arabia are supplied mostly with desal water. So it is doable. So much technology and we can't create a simple solution, WTF?
TM
Let’s not forget the former ceo of nestle and his remarks on water rights.

http://aarhusclearinghouse.unece.org/news/nestle-ceo-water-not-a-human-…
APLMAN99
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6/27/2022 10:40am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado...
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
ToolMaker wrote:
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an...
I know the Miss River was just an idea for a solution. It sure seems that we could relocate water from some areas that have an abundance to other areas that need it. As far as desal goes, I think Countries like Sauida Arabia are supplied mostly with desal water. So it is doable. So much technology and we can't create a simple solution, WTF?
TM
One idea for relocating was to actually use the Missouri. It 'only' needed to be piped a little over 800 miles, I think. Still a long ways, but nothing like having to send it all the way to California, etc. Once you get over the mountains, you let gravity take its course and get some siphon help to pump it.

Here's an example from 9-10 years ago.


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DaveB771
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6/27/2022 10:44am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado...
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
indy_maico wrote:
There is always talk of diverting Great Lakes water to the west, but there is something called the Great Lakes Compact that has prevented it so...
There is always talk of diverting Great Lakes water to the west, but there is something called the Great Lakes Compact that has prevented it so far.

It's a legally binding interstate compact among the U.S. states of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

I don't know if the Federal government can over-ride it or not.

So far, it has been challenged numerous times and has prevailed.
Add several Canadian provinces to that list. It's an international treaty.
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6/27/2022 11:13am
philG wrote:
How about you just stop growing almonds?

plowboy wrote:
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming...
It ain't just almonds...that entire central valley is feeding the country...I can't even imagine how much water that takes. I'm always amazed when I see farming on that scale.
I got a ld of carrots from 1 of those farms. I check in and they say I hv to go to another town to scale at a concrete co. Back at the farm they lded me with a belt conveyer more or less guessing on the wt by the the mound of carrots. Then drive the opposite direction to scale. Then another town where they spray ice ove the ld. Then another town to scale. I,m 92k they say the ice will melt in route to Paris Texas. The carrots where a huge diameter. I tried 1 it was gross it had deep cracks like they all did. And had no flavor. I could see expensive sports cars turning there wipers on from the melting ice flowing out the back. Dirty water from the dirt on the carrots. The ice is to get moisture in the carrots. Unload is done at cambells soup with a diesel powered skid loader. Hydraulic fluid and oil is probably on some carrot’s. The carrots r mashed into the 2 in datoed floor. Wash out is at a abandoned gas station that I guy in the parking lot uses a Walmart pressure washer. Sorry I just ruined soup for ya.
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plowboy
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6/27/2022 11:22am
I got a ld of carrots from 1 of those farms. I check in and they say I hv to go to another town to scale...
I got a ld of carrots from 1 of those farms. I check in and they say I hv to go to another town to scale at a concrete co. Back at the farm they lded me with a belt conveyer more or less guessing on the wt by the the mound of carrots. Then drive the opposite direction to scale. Then another town where they spray ice ove the ld. Then another town to scale. I,m 92k they say the ice will melt in route to Paris Texas. The carrots where a huge diameter. I tried 1 it was gross it had deep cracks like they all did. And had no flavor. I could see expensive sports cars turning there wipers on from the melting ice flowing out the back. Dirty water from the dirt on the carrots. The ice is to get moisture in the carrots. Unload is done at cambells soup with a diesel powered skid loader. Hydraulic fluid and oil is probably on some carrot’s. The carrots r mashed into the 2 in datoed floor. Wash out is at a abandoned gas station that I guy in the parking lot uses a Walmart pressure washer. Sorry I just ruined soup for ya.
I love potted meat and vieenya sausages...oil and hydraulic fluid don't bother me much.Woohoo
Prntscrn
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6/27/2022 11:26am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2022 11:44am
mvd61 wrote:
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
Prntscrn wrote:
This is a provocative take
mvd61 wrote:
Glad you edited the golf is life out. Moto is life.
Moto is life too. And I sure would like to keep watering those tracks aswell. And a nice looking lawn is pretty epic
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lumpy790
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6/27/2022 11:52am
This reminds me of the ridiculous attempt that the state of Georgia has been trying, to steal a portion of the lower SW corner of the...
This reminds me of the ridiculous attempt that the state of Georgia has been trying, to steal a portion of the lower SW corner of the state of Tennessee.
In order to get access to the water from the Tennessee river.
that's what I thought of too
dkurtd
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6/27/2022 12:50pm
dkurtd wrote:
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River...
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River. The suit brought in 1985 took 24 years to finally make it to the SCOTUS and Colorado held to account.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_v._Colorado


The only way I see there ever being a pipeline is if it's from water that was about to be dumped into the ocean. So, figure out how you get water from New Orleans to Colorado/Utah.
plowboy wrote:
I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never...
I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never seen it running out in western Kansas.
The last time I remember water running in Dodge was probably around 1984 or 1985. I think that's the last time they had so much water out at John Martin Reservoir they had to dump a whole bunch. On occasion Garden City will get a trickle.
LungButter
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6/27/2022 1:06pm
mvd61 wrote:
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
This is worth repeating.
1
plowboy
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6/27/2022 1:10pm
dkurtd wrote:
The last time I remember water running in Dodge was probably around 1984 or 1985. I think that's the last time they had so much water...
The last time I remember water running in Dodge was probably around 1984 or 1985. I think that's the last time they had so much water out at John Martin Reservoir they had to dump a whole bunch. On occasion Garden City will get a trickle.
The Arkansas has plenty of water through Wichita...where does that water come from...not Colorado for sure. The Chicaskia and Ninneschah don't dump till down in Oklahoma. The Walnut can't be bringing that much can it?
plowboy
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6/27/2022 1:12pm
mvd61 wrote:
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
LungButter wrote:
This is worth repeating.
Never gonna happen...ever...until there's not a drop left.
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LungButter
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6/27/2022 1:57pm
plowboy wrote:
Never gonna happen...ever...until there's not a drop left.
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
Titan1
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6/27/2022 2:21pm
plowboy wrote:
Never gonna happen...ever...until there's not a drop left.
LungButter wrote:
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
As someone that uses my yard/lawn virtually every day (me or my kids)...I have less of an issue with residential grass. Though I would be fine with limits on how much someone could have...I think Las Vegas doesn't allow grass in front yards, and limits grass in back yards to a certain square footage (or something like that). I'm fine with those restrictions.

I just plain don't understand why so many commercial businesses, have grass surrounding them. Why does a bank need a quarter acre of grass? Or a warehouse? or virtually any other commercial business? I just don't get that at all (at least those located in a desert)...nobody uses the grass, ever, and all they do is waste water on it....put some gravel and native plants, shrubs in there....

My uncle is the maintenance manager at Falcon Ridge Gold Course in Mesquite, NV...they water their entire course with "grey water"...recycled sewage basically.
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BMSOBx2
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6/27/2022 2:26pm
Sully wrote:
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty...
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty Hawk (commissioned in 1961) from '98 - '01, we had desalinators onboard and never had to ration our water.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
😂 not quite that old. I was in from 68 to 71. USS Arlington a World War II converted carrier AGMR2, USS Hector again World War...
😂 not quite that old. I was in from 68 to 71. USS Arlington a World War II converted carrier AGMR2, USS Hector again World War II repair ship AR7 and USS Kennebec an Oiler AO 36, at that time the third oldest commissioned ship in the Navy. Like I said old school.
plowboy wrote:
How much time did you spend in the barrel?WoohooSilly
The barrel is what we kept the fresh water in.Laughing
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dkurtd
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6/27/2022 2:28pm
dkurtd wrote:
The last time I remember water running in Dodge was probably around 1984 or 1985. I think that's the last time they had so much water...
The last time I remember water running in Dodge was probably around 1984 or 1985. I think that's the last time they had so much water out at John Martin Reservoir they had to dump a whole bunch. On occasion Garden City will get a trickle.
plowboy wrote:
The Arkansas has plenty of water through Wichita...where does that water come from...not Colorado for sure. The Chicaskia and Ninneschah don't dump till down in Oklahoma...
The Arkansas has plenty of water through Wichita...where does that water come from...not Colorado for sure. The Chicaskia and Ninneschah don't dump till down in Oklahoma. The Walnut can't be bringing that much can it?
Yes, the Walnut, Cow Creek, and a little from the Little Arkansas. Water starts picking back up at Great Bend and increases over by Hutch. Nothing from Garden to Great Bend.

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