Speaking of states rights…..

APLMAN99
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APLMAN99
Edited Date/Time 7/6/2022 11:23am
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
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borg
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borg 6/26/2022 5:11pm
6/26/2022 5:11pm
Water rights are very complicated because rivers flow through so many states. The idea of piping water from the muddy, up the hill to the Colorado basin seems absurd. Seawater conversion is the answer. At least for California.
The environmentalists and industry haters have too much power here. I'll leave it at that.
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mvd61
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mvd61 6/26/2022 5:46pm
6/26/2022 5:46pm
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
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Yeti831
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Yeti831 6/26/2022 6:07pm
6/26/2022 6:07pm
Well so much for “republicans destroy the earth”.
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borg
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borg 6/26/2022 6:50pm
6/26/2022 6:50pm
mvd61 wrote:
How about ending lawn and golf course watering?
Here in Long Beach, the golf courses are watered with grey water. We are also restricted on lawn watering. But yeah. Fuck the lawns. A lot of people have gotten rid of them and put in plastic or desert shrubs. I do my part. 3 minute showers. No truck washing until it gets embarrassing and then you have to have a nozzle or you get fined. At some point they might nix car washing in the driveway altogether. I have a neighbor that is mental on washing all the family cars constantly. I'll bet he spends 10 hours a week washing cars. WTF?
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Falcon
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Falcon 6/26/2022 6:56pm
6/26/2022 6:56pm
The amount of water you'd need to move is probably too much. We need to figure out desalinization.
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Saul Rosenburg 6/26/2022 7:03pm
6/26/2022 7:03pm
Falcon wrote:
The amount of water you'd need to move is probably too much. We need to figure out desalinization.
This^^^
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Saul Rosenburg 6/26/2022 7:04pm
6/26/2022 7:04pm
Having said that, how do we know a solution wasn’t invented years ago? But given the amount of revenue gained with water, they have kept it from us? See: Chinatown
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Sully
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Sully 6/26/2022 7:09pm
6/26/2022 7:09pm
Falcon wrote:
The amount of water you'd need to move is probably too much. We need to figure out desalinization.
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 6/26/2022 7:17pm
6/26/2022 7:17pm
Falcon wrote:
The amount of water you'd need to move is probably too much. We need to figure out desalinization.
It’d obviously have to be sourced from several different locations. There have been a couple of different suggestions going back 40+ years, but it seems like most of them are to take out water just south of where the Ohio river joins the Mississippi and to follow as low of an incline as possible to get as far upstream as you could reach the Colorado.

It’d be similar, but exponentially larger obviously, than our Columbia Basin Project here in Washington. That water has to be pumped uphill also, though not the several thousand feet that this project would entail. Once you get over your last ‘peak’ then you’d need to decide how many homes would be relocated or destroyed by the new tributary that you’d be creating to join the Colorado. The one good thing that you’d create is that you could put several hydroelectric dams on the ’new’ river to create power several times over on its descent to reach the Colorado. There wouldn’t be any need to provide for fish migration because the new, man made river never had native fish to begin with.

Lots of opportunities, issues, etc.

The biggest question that comes to my mind is whether any individual state that would have land affected by a project like that could refuse to allow it, or whether the needs of the country as a whole would override a state’s refusal to go along.
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SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 6/26/2022 8:13pm
6/26/2022 8:13pm
Yeah, surely you wouldn't be affecting anyone downstream, and no way there would be some invasive species of aquatic life, plant or animal introduced.

That plan sounds ridiculous.
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BMSOBx2
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BMSOBx2 6/26/2022 9:26pm
6/26/2022 9:26pm
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
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dkurtd
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dkurtd 6/26/2022 9:35pm
6/26/2022 9:35pm
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River. The suit brought in 1985 took 24 years to finally make it to the SCOTUS and Colorado held to account.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_v._Colorado


The only way I see there ever being a pipeline is if it's from water that was about to be dumped into the ocean. So, figure out how you get water from New Orleans to Colorado/Utah.
Chance1216
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Chance1216 6/26/2022 9:39pm
6/26/2022 9:39pm
Just looking at the difference in average water temperature, there will be a significant loss of life. The Colorado is 50*, while the Mississippi is roughly 75*.
dkurtd
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dkurtd 6/26/2022 9:42pm
6/26/2022 9:42pm
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
I spent 28 years in the Navy with time on 3 different carriers and we only rationed on the conventionals, the nuke I was on made enough to support hollywood showers.
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BMSOBx2
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BMSOBx2 6/26/2022 9:48pm
6/26/2022 9:48pm
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
dkurtd wrote:
I spent 28 years in the Navy with time on 3 different carriers and we only rationed on the conventionals, the nuke I was on made...
I spent 28 years in the Navy with time on 3 different carriers and we only rationed on the conventionals, the nuke I was on made enough to support hollywood showers.
Oh that must have been the new Navy.Grinning I was in the conventional, old-school Navy.
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Sully
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Sully 6/26/2022 9:50pm
6/26/2022 9:50pm
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty Hawk (commissioned in 1961) from '98 - '01, we had desalinators onboard and never had to ration our water.
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plowboy
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plowboy 6/27/2022 12:18am
6/27/2022 12:18am
dkurtd wrote:
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River...
There would be water rights lawsuits left and right, just look at the lawsuits that the state of Kansas brought against Colorado over the Arkansas River. The suit brought in 1985 took 24 years to finally make it to the SCOTUS and Colorado held to account.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_v._Colorado


The only way I see there ever being a pipeline is if it's from water that was about to be dumped into the ocean. So, figure out how you get water from New Orleans to Colorado/Utah.
I have no idea where the water in the Arkansas comes from. It is ABSOLUTELY dry as a bone out by Dodge City. I have never seen it running out in western Kansas.
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Jeremy A.K.
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Jeremy A.K. 6/27/2022 5:39am
6/27/2022 5:39am
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country accomplishing great projects like the hoover damn or the interstate project are long gone . I'm racking my brain for an example of some type of mega project the united states has accomplished lately and none come to mind.
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indy_maico
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indy_maico 6/27/2022 6:46am
6/27/2022 6:46am
APLMAN99 wrote:
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado...
How do the folks in the midwest feel about the idea of diverting a bunch of Mississippi River flow to try to bring back the Colorado? Is this something that the federal government should be able to force upon states, or is that water an asset owned by the individual states. For rivers that flow on state borders, should one have more say than another? Should an ‘upriver’ state be allowed to do whatever they wish without needing agreement from downriver states?

The state of the reservoirs of the Colorado are getting pretty desperate, and there are going to be some major decisions that will need to be made within the next 5-10 years…..
There is always talk of diverting Great Lakes water to the west, but there is something called the Great Lakes Compact that has prevented it so far.

It's a legally binding interstate compact among the U.S. states of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

I don't know if the Federal government can over-ride it or not.

So far, it has been challenged numerous times and has prevailed.
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Joey_Bridges
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Joey_Bridges 6/27/2022 6:57am
6/27/2022 6:57am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2022 7:40am
This reminds me of the ridiculous attempt that the state of Georgia has been trying, to steal a portion of the lower SW corner of the state of Tennessee.
In order to get access to the water from the Tennessee river.
Joey_Bridges
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Joey_Bridges 6/27/2022 7:01am
6/27/2022 7:01am
Can you imagine the amount of, graft, kickbacks, and corruption involved in trying to construct a pipeline and pumping stations from the Mississippi river to the west coast ??
Not to mention the absolute uproar from environmentalists ??

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Saul Rosenburg 6/27/2022 7:12am
6/27/2022 7:12am
Makes me wonder how Colonial Pipeline was able to have their system installed which stretches down the eastern seaboard I believe. Then again, it’s oil related so I think I just answered my own question. lol
mvd61
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mvd61 6/27/2022 7:26am
6/27/2022 7:26am
Jeremy A.K. wrote:
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country...
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country accomplishing great projects like the hoover damn or the interstate project are long gone . I'm racking my brain for an example of some type of mega project the united states has accomplished lately and none come to mind.
They could fuck up a wet dream in a simulation. The only thing they do really good is launder our money into their pockets. Let’s hang ‘em. Be a lot more resources available with out all the leeches aka politicians.
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plowboy
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plowboy 6/27/2022 8:40am
6/27/2022 8:40am
Jeremy A.K. wrote:
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country...
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country accomplishing great projects like the hoover damn or the interstate project are long gone . I'm racking my brain for an example of some type of mega project the united states has accomplished lately and none come to mind.
mvd61 wrote:
They could fuck up a wet dream in a simulation. The only thing they do really good is launder our money into their pockets. Let’s hang...
They could fuck up a wet dream in a simulation. The only thing they do really good is launder our money into their pockets. Let’s hang ‘em. Be a lot more resources available with out all the leeches aka politicians.
I have no doubt about the level of corruption and graft in government from the local to national level but anytime there's money involved...men of low character will be there. Moths to a flame or more like foxes in the hen house. There will be blood and it ain't theirs.
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profeshenal125 6/27/2022 8:40am
6/27/2022 8:40am
Jeremy A.K. wrote:
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country...
Does anybody really trust that the government could accomplish it without ruining everything they touch in the process? It seems like the days of this country accomplishing great projects like the hoover damn or the interstate project are long gone . I'm racking my brain for an example of some type of mega project the united states has accomplished lately and none come to mind.
We did ovr 12 world record horizon drilling projects. Most where not engineerable impossible projects. Environmental folks always added something stupid. For the sake of being involved in our project. Add time and money like a 6 in pump in the river to the rig. Do we really need to create a washout wall on the river for a 6 in hose. Every time I work on my bikes I cross the mouth of the fox river on a high bridge that ships go under the bay is rt there. I always slow down and take in the beauty of the water. It can b 12 degrees colder on the east side near the bay. A pipeline with all the rivers that you hv to drill under would cost a trillion. 550 mil to drill under a river in 95. Railroad tankers would be the cheapest and best way. The Great Lakes r really something to see. Even the bay it,s 138 mi straight north to land in the up of Mi. Turn rt and your in lake Mi. On my dob 11-18 my parents watched a ship Danial J Morrel come into port . It unlded went up to lake Superior got caught in a storm with 30 + ft waves and broke in 1/2. Hundreds of ships sank in the Great Lakes . Taking water from the Great Lakes is a touchy subject. Nobody wants these Lakes touched. The ships would stop for one.
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BMSOBx2
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BMSOBx2 6/27/2022 8:43am
6/27/2022 8:43am
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
Sully wrote:
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty...
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty Hawk (commissioned in 1961) from '98 - '01, we had desalinators onboard and never had to ration our water.
😂 not quite that old. I was in from 68 to 71. USS Arlington a World War II converted carrier AGMR2, USS Hector again World War II repair ship AR7 and USS Kennebec an Oiler AO 36, at that time the third oldest commissioned ship in the Navy. Like I said old school.
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plowboy
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plowboy 6/27/2022 8:50am
6/27/2022 8:50am
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
Sully wrote:
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty...
Were you in the Navy in the 40s or something? When I was on USS Independence (commissioned in 1959) from '96 - '98 and USS Kitty Hawk (commissioned in 1961) from '98 - '01, we had desalinators onboard and never had to ration our water.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
😂 not quite that old. I was in from 68 to 71. USS Arlington a World War II converted carrier AGMR2, USS Hector again World War...
😂 not quite that old. I was in from 68 to 71. USS Arlington a World War II converted carrier AGMR2, USS Hector again World War II repair ship AR7 and USS Kennebec an Oiler AO 36, at that time the third oldest commissioned ship in the Navy. Like I said old school.
How much time did you spend in the barrel?WoohooSilly
LoudLove
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LoudLove 6/27/2022 8:56am
6/27/2022 8:56am
Sully wrote:
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it...
Navy ships have been using desalinators since at least the 50s, so I don't think it's a matter of figuring it out, it's more scaling it up. Creating fresh water for 5000 people on an aircraft carrier is relatively easy compared to creating fresh water for LA.
BMSOBx2 wrote:
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job...
You must not have been in the Navy. Water rations usually started about ten days out of port. Cracking scale on desalinators is a 24/7 job. Never could keep up.
dkurtd wrote:
I spent 28 years in the Navy with time on 3 different carriers and we only rationed on the conventionals, the nuke I was on made...
I spent 28 years in the Navy with time on 3 different carriers and we only rationed on the conventionals, the nuke I was on made enough to support hollywood showers.
We called them “John Wayne showers”. And I was on the FID and TR in the 90’s!
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