Smart people calling out the rednecks.

GrapeApe
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9/28/2018 11:46am
Like most things in life, you get out of higher education what you put in. If you're smart with your degree, work hard, participate in campus organizations, graduate in the top 20% of your class with a legit degree, the world is your oyster and those low interest loans will be re-paid in 5 years or less. Conversely, if you take on a major with very little career opportunity, can't control your partying, participate in nothing, and 6 years later graduate in the bottom half of your class with a degree in art history, you will have gained nothing except debt.

What does this thread have to do with rednecks?
3
newmann
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9/28/2018 12:08pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Like most things in life, you get out of higher education what you put in. If you're smart with your degree, work hard, participate in campus...
Like most things in life, you get out of higher education what you put in. If you're smart with your degree, work hard, participate in campus organizations, graduate in the top 20% of your class with a legit degree, the world is your oyster and those low interest loans will be re-paid in 5 years or less. Conversely, if you take on a major with very little career opportunity, can't control your partying, participate in nothing, and 6 years later graduate in the bottom half of your class with a degree in art history, you will have gained nothing except debt.

What does this thread have to do with rednecks?
What does this thread have to do with rednecks?

Another thread where one of the educated ones were shitting on "redneck" types. Just pointing out a little hypocrisy. Stupid is as stupid does, educated or not.
woodsrider427
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Wake Forest, NC US
9/28/2018 5:16pm
It seems tough for a young person to navigate the options nowadays. College is definitely pushed a lot more than when I was young. We are going through it now with our kids, two girls 16 and 18. The oldest is now in community college and working part time at my insistence, since she has no clue what she wants to do and I'm paying for it. But most of her friends are off to such and such university to "get the college experience" as several of them have actually said. And I can surely tell you that most are not paying out right for it. It will be interesting to see how they each end up.

Meanwhile all the trades around here are hurting and I'm surrounded by non college educated guys every day that make really good money. I recently realized not too long ago that most of my long time subs (I'm a remodeling contractor) are now near or in their 50's (most have been with me 15-20 years), so the next 10-20 years should be interesting.
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plowboy
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9/28/2018 5:32pm
What we have here gentlemen is a classic parallax. An object, or in this case, the up/downside of higher education...can and will appear different based on the position of the observer. Those that are mired in school debt and can't find a 15 dollar an hour job will probably have a different opinion than those that have little debt and walk into a $50 dollar an hour job.

The high school drop out that started his own business and became wealthy will probably view higher education differently than the wealthy degreed professional.

It takes a wise and understanding person to step outside their personal box and try to understand how a fellow human being can have such a polar opposite opinion about a subject. I'll be the first to admit...a lot of the time...people are ignorant. Not stupid, but just lacking in knowledge or experience. Having said that, some folks are just plain stupid.

Is there anyone here 40 or older that has the exact same opinions about EVERYTHING that they did at age 16? Hell, I'm 60 and some of my life long opinions have changed in the last few years. Bottom line, everyone's opinions are based on personal experience and since no two humans share that experience...be prepared for others to have a different opinion than your own. It's cool to be around like minded people but there's no reason to disregard/dismiss others of a different ilk.
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The Shop

newmann
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9/28/2018 6:13pm
Had a customer in the shop the other day talking about a plumbing company in Oklahoma that was paying his plumbers $130.00 per hour just so he could keep some decent employees. Higher education got pushed to the point things got thrown out of balance maybe.
plowboy
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9/28/2018 7:10pm
newmann wrote:
Had a customer in the shop the other day talking about a plumbing company in Oklahoma that was paying his plumbers $130.00 per hour just so...
Had a customer in the shop the other day talking about a plumbing company in Oklahoma that was paying his plumbers $130.00 per hour just so he could keep some decent employees. Higher education got pushed to the point things got thrown out of balance maybe.
If I hired those Okies...they better be the fastest turd chasers on the planet.Sad
Gus
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10/1/2018 11:00am
Shiftfaced wrote:
What is the intent of a post like this? Is this what "trolling" is? Regardless, here is my honest take. Not only recent college graduates, but...
What is the intent of a post like this? Is this what "trolling" is?

Regardless, here is my honest take. Not only recent college graduates, but A LOT of people used their homes as an ATM since about 1990. Any bank would let any loan, because they also believed that home prices would never decrease. Issue a loan on ANY property, and if the buyer defaults, the banks then would see the profits that homeowners had been realizing.

Obviously, the pie is not always growing. It shrunk in 2008, and the world's economy reeled because of it.

As for the "smarter people"comment, college is not for everybody. I do see it as an investment in yourself though.

I cannot think of a job out there that having a college degree makes you unqualified for. "What? You have a college degree? Sorry, you cannot have this job."


But there are a MILLION jobs that having a degree (sometimes of any sort) is a minimum requirement of employment.

I struggled in high school. Not that I was not intelligent enough, but we were a poor family, and lived in a small rural town. What opportunities are there?

Not many.

I enlisted in the military, and thought that I would make a career of that.

2 years into my 4 year enlistment, I realized that a life that of that was not what I wanted, so I took the ACT test, and waited for my term to expire.

Back then, the GI Bill was not NEARLY as generous as it is today. I had to contribute $100 per month for the first year of my term (I was only netting about $1,100 per month back in 1989).

When I got out, I had about $14,500 available to me as long as I was a full-time student, and getting passing grades. That would get me a check for about $400 a month to off-set "expenses".

That was not going to "pay my way" to a college degree, so I also picked up a part time job working for UPS. I would get up at 3:30 am, work at UPS from 4 am to 8 am loading the trucks up, and then go to school. To keep that schedule, I had to go to bed at about 8 pm. I missed a lot of parties, but I knew I had one (1) chance to get a college degree, so I was very focused.

My classmates? They had not had a taste of "real life" that the military had provided me, so they were maxing out the student loans available to them, and taking any class they wanted. Parties all the time, and Spring Break trips to Mexico! No real motivation, and no real idea of "what they wanted to be".

But the student loans were easy to get, so what did they care?

Many went straight into Master's programs after the Bachelor's, just because it might have been easier than actually going out and finding a job.

My education has taken me places I never would have imagined, and provided me with financial security that NOBODY in my family has ever experienced.

Kick education, and the process, all you want. For some people, it is a great investment in themselves. For others, it is a time to shirk responsibility and have a good time.

There is not a single answer as to whether or not a college education is "worth it".

For some, it is. For others, it is not.

I think you get it. Education is what you make it. Having your military back ground and having a good look at the world gave you a heads up in what to pursue. Like you I grew up relatively poor, parents made just enough, so university was off the list. I got into to emergency services during high school and figured out they would pay for my book and the EMT class if I was on the roster at the “rescue squad”. I finished high school , passed my state test and starting working for the county. Holy crap! 24 grand a year and health insurance and I kept working on the farm on my off days. I was big time. I kept taking classes to get my Paramedic certification, which the county paid for. Got my time in and got my “dream job” working at a hospital based service. The hospital then paid for me to go to nursing school at the community college. Then for a 2 year contract they paid for almost all of my Bachelors Degree. Now for another 2 years they’re gonna end up paying for almost all of my graduate degree. Now I’m never gonna be rich but for the area I life in, we do ok. But sometimes I think I got lucky in not having the money or enough “sense“ to get a school loan and head off to “big college.”
3
tcannon521
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10/1/2018 12:45pm
newmann wrote:
Had a customer in the shop the other day talking about a plumbing company in Oklahoma that was paying his plumbers $130.00 per hour just so...
Had a customer in the shop the other day talking about a plumbing company in Oklahoma that was paying his plumbers $130.00 per hour just so he could keep some decent employees. Higher education got pushed to the point things got thrown out of balance maybe.
$130 per hour? I built a house last year and I know for a fact a crew of plumbers were here at least 3 full days.

So let’s say 2 were plumbers and not laborers that’s $6,240 in labor plus another 20% for employer taxes etc that puts their labor costs at $7,488 which is just slightly less than my complete plumbing cost.

I’m not saying he’s lying but that seems insane and almost unrealistic. I’m not sure paying $130 per hour for plumbers will be good for the long term viability of their business.
1
10/1/2018 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 10/1/2018 1:03pm
newmann wrote:
Let the excuses flow my friend! It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's not my fault. It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's...
Let the excuses flow my friend!

It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's not my fault. It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's not my fault.It's not my fault.Laughing
I was lied to by many adults during my teenage years about how important college was and that I basically had no chance at success without...
I was lied to by many adults during my teenage years about how important college was and that I basically had no chance at success without a degree.

My counselors, my teachers, the University marketing, society at large; all of them basically guaranteed failure if you had no degree and who were we to question it at the time? We were a bunch of dumb kids who didn't know enough to question it. It was unfathomable at the time that they might not have had our best interests in mind.

I took responsibility for my choices though, slogged through getting my engineering degree, and was extremely lucky to land a decent job right out of school. I have mixed feelings still whether it was worth it or not. I'm extremely happy with my current life, and I have no idea if it would have been better or worse had I gone to trade school or something instead.

I still hold resentment for all the lies and misinformation presented to me as "unquestionable fact" back then though.
I agree with this in every way.....

Wish they woulda preached hard work pays off, not go to college or you’re a failure.

Masters levels coursework is garbage. I scream at the computer. Withdrew last week. Not sure if I’m Gonna go back. Don’t need this shit anymore. I’m done paying for sub par education. Pay the bill. Teach yourself. All while not getting any actual hands on, real life, tangible experience that is useful
In your field. (My experience anyway...anyone else feel to tell me
Your experience If it was great)
ns503
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NS Toolies CA
10/2/2018 5:14am
What about being a smart person during the week and a redneck on the weekend?

Or - have a 'smart person' 'real' job AND an off & on redneck seasonal part time family type gig?

Some of us are pretty diversified and well rounded. Smile
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Yeti365
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Chula Vista, CA US
10/6/2018 6:25pm
I've always taken mechanical cert courses and trade schools my entire life over any degree.

My take on the subject? I make more money, have a better pension and healthcare than the people who said I wouldn't make it without a degree. I actually went back to my old school to get records and had that discussion with some old staff. I'd be lying if I said a small part of me wasn't stoked to throw it in their face.

My student debt? About $4k when I left school.

Trades pay more, if you are willing to bust your ass and use a brain for work.

Want an easy job that pays a lot? Then yeah, get a degree.
1
Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID US
10/8/2018 6:25am
I will add one point that I don’t think has been addressed.

Yes, trades are a great way to earn a great great deal of money, but some are hard on the body.

As you get older, that “wear and tear” starts to add up.

As I get older, I appreciate my warm office chair more and more.
1
MR. X
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North Tonawanda, NY US
10/8/2018 6:30am
Shiftfaced wrote:
I will add one point that I don’t think has been addressed. Yes, trades are a great way to earn a great great deal of money...
I will add one point that I don’t think has been addressed.

Yes, trades are a great way to earn a great great deal of money, but some are hard on the body.

As you get older, that “wear and tear” starts to add up.

As I get older, I appreciate my warm office chair more and more.
If you don't use it ,you lose it.
Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID US
10/8/2018 7:57am Edited Date/Time 10/8/2018 8:57am
MR. X wrote:
If you don't use it ,you lose it.
I agree with that 100%.

I like the old saying "A body in motion will stay in motion. A body at rest will stay at rest".

For being 48 years old, I stay pretty active. I ride my bicycle to work daily. (Have not driven to work in over 8 years), and that is in Boise, ID. We do get winters with snow. In fact, last year I competed in a 477 mile bike-packing race through the mountains of Idaho. I completed that in 2 days, and 23 hours. I mow my own lawn (and a neighbors who is having trouble with a knee replacement), rake my own leaves, and do all of my own motorcycle/car/RV maintenance.

I try to stay busy, and use my body, but I am glad that I do not work outside doing manual labor for 8+ hours a day.

I see construction guys out of my office window, and like the Postal Carrier, they are out there in all kinds of weather. 105 degrees in the summer, and below freezing in the winter.

That has to take a toll, over time.
1
early
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10/8/2018 8:48am
Kinda sucks there's this much debate about the best way to claw your way out of the bottom class.
1

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