Should this officer be facing 2 murder charges?

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2/17/2019 4:23 PM

If he did lie to obtain this warrant, that is....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/officer-apparently-lied-in-seeking-warrant-before-deadly-raid-chief-says/ar-BBTEWe5?ocid=spartanntp


Officer apparently lied in seeking warrant before deadly raid, chief says

Phil Helsel and Tom Winter 11 hrs ago


Houston's police chief said Friday that there appear to be "some material untruths or lies" in an affidavit used to get a warrant for a drug raid that left four officers shot and two people in the home dead.

Police Chief Art Acevedo emphasized that police "had reason to investigate that location" on Harding Street, a raid that ended in a shootout that killed the two occupants, Dennis Tuttle, 59, and Rhogena Nicholas, 58.

"Thus far it appears that there are some material untruths or lies in that affidavit — and that's a problem," Acevedo said. "That's totally unacceptable."

"More than likely, the investigating officer will be charged with a serious crime at some point," the chief said.
He added that there will be a review of past investigations, as well as a broader look at the department’s narcotics unit street level units.

Earlier Friday, NBC affiliate KPRC of Houston obtained police documents that say narcotics Officer Gerald Goines justified the warrant request by claiming that he sent a confidential informant to make a narcotics buy at the home, and that the informant returned with what the informant said was heroin and said there was a weapon at the residence.

But in the police documents, an investigator said they were unable to find that informant, and that all the informants listed as working with Goines denied making a drug buy for him at that home or ever buying from Tuttle or Nicholas. Acevedo acknowledged those documents Friday, but did not name the officer.

The police department has said that when officers were serving the felony warrant at the home at around 5 p.m. on Jan. 28, they were met with gunfire and several officers returned fire, killing Tuttle and Nicholas.

Police have said that a small amount of marijuana and white powder believed to be cocaine or fentanyl as well as three shotguns and two rifles were recovered after the raid on the home. Goines was one of the four officers wounded in the shooting, according to police documents.

"We're going to get to the truth," Acevedo said. He said the police department is conducting “an impartial investigation into everything that occurred leading up to and during that raid."

Acevedo did not name what he called the "target officer" in the investigation into the shooting, but past cases will be investigated as well.

Acevedo said that one officer has previously been relieved of duty, and the person he referred to as the investigating officer is still hospitalized and will also be relieved. A message with the police union about whether Goines has legal representation was not immediately returned Friday night.

Acevedo said there was a 911 call earlier in January from a woman who said her daughter was doing heroin in the home that was raided. "This was not just an investigator deciding to go target a house, as far as we've determined so far, for no reason," he said.

If information was determined to have been falsified for the warrant it would be a crime, Acevedo said. But the details of exactly what occurred are still under investigation, he said. He said that search warrants have been obtained for cellphones.

"No matter what we end up with here, right, we know we have a criminal violation already — and a serious criminal violation by the individual that prepared that affidavit on the initial search warrant at the Harding Street location," Acevedo said.

The Houston Police Officers’ Union said in a statement to KPRC that the facts detailed by Acevedo on Friday were "extremely concerning."

"Such actions, if true, would be extremely disturbing and would not be a reflection of the many men and women of HPD who do an incredible job every day, including those who have worked tirelessly since the shooting ensuring that no stone goes unturned," the union said.

Acevedo pledged a thorough and impartial investigation.

"I"m telling you, there's a lot of pissed off cops right now," the police chief said. "There are a lot of angry cops. Because when you violate that oath of office, you make it hard for 98, 99 percent of these cops that go out there every day."



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2/17/2019 4:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/17/2019 4:43 PM

Like you said, if true, this is some bad s***. California's new police transparency law is bringing many many incidences of police wrongdoing to light. One would like to think that those who are pledged to Serve and Protect would be above suspicion. Not to paint with too broad a brush or to say that all law enforcement officers are bad but as with anything in today's society there are always a few bad apples. Unfortunately the consequences in this case are particularly tragic.

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2/17/2019 6:07 PM

You are entering a "chain of events" situation. If I had not left the house at 6:30 and instead left at 6:20 I would have avoided the traffic jam. I blame my wife for setting the alarm too late.
Not saying the cop doesn't bear some responsibility, but is the one act to blame for everything that followed?
Just posing a question.

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2/17/2019 6:21 PM

Hell, the FBI was getting FISA warrants like Halloween candy without proper paperwork.

Where's that outrage?

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Go for it! Don't let a little thing like fear, or common sense hold you back.

2/17/2019 6:54 PM

borg wrote:

You are entering a "chain of events" situation. If I had not left the house at 6:30 and instead left at 6:20 I would have ...more

Sort of like if you aid in a bank robbery (like driving the car) and anyone is killed during the event then you can be charged with their killing? That sort of "chain of events"?

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2/17/2019 8:37 PM

The Houston deal has been turning into a shitshow for a while now. Will be interesting to see where it all ends up.

Now, how about this disgusting piece of work? Gotta love where it all starts and where it all ends up. You just can't take any of these claims serious anymore. Same story over and over and when the truth comes out...crickets. Always a hate crime all the way up until it isn't. Just like those mean notes people always leave on their restaurant receipts which of course have their c/c number and name on them. Always fake. I would love to see some of these dolts get thrown under the jail.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/jussie-smollett-attack-as-mystery-deepens-investigation-changes-course/ar-BBTIT8U?ocid=ientp

By the way, what happened to the Chief White Lie thread?

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2/17/2019 9:16 PM

newmann wrote:

The Houston deal has been turning into a shitshow for a while now. Will be interesting to see where it all ends up.

Now, how ...more

It’s a real shame Jussie Smollett wasn’t in the drug raid....hopefully next time

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2/18/2019 7:25 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/18/2019 8:28 AM

The original story I understand it, was that based upon some pissed-off neighbor's 911 call, 5 plain-clothed officers came busting thru the door of these folks house. Dog started doing what a dog is supposed to do, and gets shot by a shotgun. The homeowner, not knowing what the hell is happening as he sees his dog blown away, shoots back with his 6 shot revolver. His wife gets shot and he gets shot to death as well.5 cpps get shot too. Pretty damn good shooting from a 357 Mag by a guy under stress ! Seems like there was "friendly fire" involved.


All that is found, is typical of what they might find in anyone's house. No Heroin ! Couple has been described by neighbors, as a nice couple who had been married and lived in the home for around 20 yrs. Now they are dead !
This is a messed-up deal all the way around.

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2/18/2019 8:46 AM

My buddies house got mistakenly raided one time. Luckily he wasn’t home because he woulda dropped everyone.

The police reports weren’t anytning like what really happened. Scared my buddies mom to death. Had her on the ground with a shotgun to her. Broke their door in. Middle of the night.

Oops wrong house. No domestic violence or drugs. Seriously ? That coulda ended up same way with everyone dead.

I support police through and through but even they make mistakes! Shouldn’t be taken lightly when they do. And if police reports are fudged they all need to go down.

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GP740
Since 1987

2/18/2019 9:12 AM

Jeff_Wilson wrote:

The original story I understand it, was that based upon some pissed-off neighbor's 911 call, 5 plain-clothed officers came ...more

There was a similar situation in Maryland a few years back. The dealers have their deliveries sent to random homes where they pick them up off the porch. The did it to the mayor of some town. Then the cops get wind, raid the house- shoot the mayor's dog. No humans dead, but another royal eff-up.

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2/18/2019 9:31 AM

Jeff_Wilson wrote:

The original story I understand it, was that based upon some pissed-off neighbor's 911 call, 5 plain-clothed officers came ...more

Not only that, but this is the story where the police chief made some ridiculous statement afterward about being tired of the cop bashing. This is before there was any real controversy about what happened. This was the same day or the next day maybe. He even went as far as to say the cops are going to start "watching" people's comments about police. That clown needs to be fired, and yes, the cop that lied should be brought up on charges. Neither of those things will happen though.

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2/18/2019 11:53 AM

Investigating officer needs to be lit up for falsifying records, for sure. It should be an insanely painful sentence, but it's not murder. At least not murder 1. The cop didn't premeditate the residents' deaths. Also, in a raid by plainclothes officers, there is always a possibility of this scenario playing out. (So it could have happened this way, even if all the right paperwork was filed.)

Not excusing the officer at all, but I doubt murder charges can be brought in this case. Then again, I'm not a lawyer.


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Braaapin' aint easy.

2/18/2019 7:38 PM

Jeff_Wilson wrote:

The original story I understand it, was that based upon some pissed-off neighbor's 911 call, 5 plain-clothed officers came ...more

freeh wrote:

Not only that, but this is the story where the police chief made some ridiculous statement afterward about being tired of the ...more

That was the PIO for the officer’s guild. Houston’s Chief likes to throw his officers under the bus...he’s sure as hell not out making inflammatory statements to defend them.

If the falsification aspects are true, punishment needs to be swift and significant. But I’ll wait until the facts are in. Confidential informants are mostly criminals trying to work off charges and shady as hell, so it may also be that none of them want to be “the guy” now that this thing blew up with multiple wounded officers and two dead homeowners.

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2/18/2019 7:44 PM

What I really want to know is how many of the cops involved in that raid are former military that spent time guarding the opium fields in Afghanistan? whistling

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2/18/2019 7:53 PM

7I3N wrote:

What I really want to know is how many of the cops involved in that raid are former military that spent time guarding the ...more

WTH does that even mean?...........I wonder if we will here the whole story. Has to be more to this story.

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2/18/2019 7:55 PM

Falcon wrote:

Investigating officer needs to be lit up for falsifying records, for sure. It should be an insanely painful sentence, but it's ...more

I’d say this is worse than murder 1. It’s a crime against the Constitution.

Government officials should be held to higher standard, and the penalties should reflect it.

And when the inevitable civil suit pays out, it should come at the expense of the departments pensions & benefits. That’s the only way this shit is gonna stop.

Humans just cant handle this sort of power we give our police. It’s a recipe for disaster.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

2/18/2019 8:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/18/2019 8:37 PM

Falcon wrote:

Investigating officer needs to be lit up for falsifying records, for sure. It should be an insanely painful sentence, but it's ...more

Jabroni wrote:

I’d say this is worse than murder 1. It’s a crime against the Constitution.

Government officials should be held to higher ...more

Several hundred thousand police handle it just fine, every day, year in and year out. They’re just not “news”.

I do agree on the higher standard.

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2/18/2019 10:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/18/2019 10:57 PM

I remember not too long ago, a guy called into a police department in Kansas from California and reported some fake crime as a prank. The pd rolled out a swat team based on the info they received from the guy. The raid went bad and the cops ended up killing someone at the house. They end up charging the guy that made the call with murder. How is this any different?

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2/19/2019 8:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2019 8:20 AM

omalley wrote:

Several hundred thousand police handle it just fine, every day, year in and year out. They’re just not “news”.

I do agree on ...more

I dont think they do. What makes the news is only the tip of the iceberg. And self policing doesnt exist, even those that dont abuse their power enable those who do. Whistleblowing means the end of your career. Whereas a cop murdering someone often means paid leave, and then getting relocated to another precinct. That’s incredibly backwards.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

2/19/2019 11:08 AM

APLMAN99 wrote:

Sort of like if you aid in a bank robbery (like driving the car) and anyone is killed during the event then you can be charged ...more

You'd get charged with murder even if it was the cops killing one of your accomplices and nobody involved in the robbery was using a loaded gun.

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[LINK TO IMAGE]

Empty a bag of skittles into the toilet and then flush. It's like watching a five second long nascar race.

2/19/2019 11:21 AM

GeorgiePorgie wrote:

My buddies house got mistakenly raided one time. Luckily he wasn’t home because he woulda dropped everyone.

The police ...more

I was present during a mistaken RCMP raid back in the late 70's. My parents had dragged me out to their friends farm to hang out for a bit and while we were there, a van and another car arrived unexpectedly in the driveway. A number of sketchy looking guys came to the door and after knocking on the door like any normal person might, they identified themselves as RCMP and showed a search warrant.

The search warrant was for automatic weapons. How or why the guy who's house we were at got targeted for something like this was never known or revealed, but he was anything but a criminal and had never even fired a gun, let alone owned automatic weapons. After searching the farm and finding a small hobby still in one of the outbuildings, it was agreed that there would be no mention of the still, if nothing was mentioned about the raid.

It was all very polite and very Canadian as I remember. Everybody walked away shaking their heads wondering what the fuss was all about.

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[LINK TO IMAGE]

Empty a bag of skittles into the toilet and then flush. It's like watching a five second long nascar race.

2/19/2019 3:27 PM

Jabroni wrote:

I’d say this is worse than murder 1. It’s a crime against the Constitution.

Government officials should be held to higher ...more

You really hate the police. Your Idea of taking money out of there pension is lame. The job is dangerous and incredibly hard with everybody being so sue happy. Bad cops do exist but, not near as many as you think.

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2/19/2019 3:41 PM

jgmxdad251 wrote:

You really hate the police. Your Idea of taking money out of there pension is lame. The job is dangerous and incredibly hard ...more

??? everyone being so sue happy

Sure, that’s worse than the cops being “trigger happy” right?

Your response is exactly why their civil suit payouts should come out of the pension. It’s the only thing that’ll make them accountable to each other for their actions.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

2/19/2019 4:06 PM

I dont think i shared the shooting my little bro was in on this board, its was pretty crazy man! Suspect in a foot chase turned and fired at him from 15 feet and the bullet whizzed by his head....scary shit. The dirtbag also shot their K9, my brother ended up beating him to a pulp, put the guy in coma, he barely survived. The whole thing is a long story, im just glad my bro is safe.

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-OC
"Feed The Bull"
Twitter: @ocscottie | Facebook

2/19/2019 4:09 PM

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-OC
"Feed The Bull"
Twitter: @ocscottie | Facebook

2/19/2019 5:56 PM

Jabroni wrote:

??? everyone being so sue happy

Sure, that’s worse than the cops being “trigger happy” right?

Your response is exactly why ...more

Oh yea, all cops are trigger happy! Go fuck yourself! Your part of the reason the job is so hard. You think the police force are trigger happy power abusing idiots. I bet you tell all your friends that too. Those of us that don’t hate cops see it differently.

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2/19/2019 6:05 PM

borg wrote:

You are entering a "chain of events" situation. If I had not left the house at 6:30 and instead left at 6:20 I would have ...more

APLMAN99 wrote:

Sort of like if you aid in a bank robbery (like driving the car) and anyone is killed during the event then you can be charged ...more

Rooster wrote:

You'd get charged with murder even if it was the cops killing one of your accomplices and nobody involved in the robbery was ...more

This is OK with you? Honest question.

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2/19/2019 6:56 PM

jgmxdad251 wrote:

Oh yea, all cops are trigger happy! Go fuck yourself! Your part of the reason the job is so hard. You think the police force ...more

There are many people that have a completely different perspective than you do about police. Try to understand different perspectives instead of just reacting to them. You might learn something.

I could personally never do a job that required me to surrender my own moral judgment for someone else’s rules. And I’m not alone. Here’s a couple examples. Learn something or get offended. The choice is yours.

Photo



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2/19/2019 8:43 PM

ocscottie wrote:

I dont think i shared the shooting my little bro was in on this board, its was pretty crazy man! Suspect in a foot chase ...more

I think it was last year in Lancaster that the police got a fake robbery call and the guy was waiting to ambush the cop. They ended up in a foot chase and the suspect shot under his arm backwards while running killing the cop with a lucky shot.

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2/19/2019 8:55 PM

I tried to understand your perspective but, it was to stupid. You have to be some kind of weirdo. Just like your last post that didn’t make any sense, I have a open mind but you will never change my mind with your bullshit rhetoric.

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