Serious Question About Age Discrimination

Related:
Create New Tag

3/3/2018 9:11 AM

Okay first off let’s not make this political. Try our best. Be civil.

Now I have a serious question for my fellow Vital members about Walmart and Dick’s new age policy with certain firearms.

Federal law for many firearms to be purchased is 18 to the best of my knowledge. They have taken it upon themselves to raise the age to 21. Age is a specific class stated in federal anti-discrimination laws. In other words, you can’t reserve the right to refuse service due to someone’s age. Is it technically legal for them to refuse a firearm sale to a 20 year old?

Their reasoning is that many mass shootings are committed by people in that 18-20 age range. This would be like them refusing alcohol sales to anyone under 30 because ages 21-29 are more prone to kill people due to drunk driving. Federal law for alcohol sales is obviously 21.

Every gun owner I know doesn’t buy their guns from places like Walmart or Dicks anyway, so it really won’t affect them. My question does still stand however. If someone really wanted to take this to court, would this be against the federal law for places to do this sort of thing? Refusing service based on age, even though federal law says they are within their right to purchase firearms? I was curious and I couldn’t find a direct answer.

Here’s to hoping we can keep this civil and have a decent discussion.

|

3/3/2018 9:18 AM

It sucks because Dicks has good prices on ammo . I will not spend at dime there anymore after their attempt to diagnose and fix a problem that wasn't for them to correct. This has been going on for awhile with Dicks .

|

3/3/2018 9:20 AM

I have no idea wether thats legal or not, but i will say that even though i know there are smart kids that know how to shoot and have been trained properly, i still think the legal age should be 25.

|

3/3/2018 9:26 AM

Age discrimination only applies to old people, us youngins ain't got protections. Kinda like being white, or a man.

|

3/3/2018 9:27 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 9:28 AM

They may run into discrimination suits making their reasoning so obvious in regards to age only.
You arent going to get a legal ruling/correct answer on it on Vital though.
It will be up to the courts/ maybe even the Supreme Court I assume if people decide to file suits.
However, I've worked in the industry and you have the right not to sell anyone a gun if you don't want to or feel they are a danger to themselves or anyone else etc... It's a grey area though and does open the door to discrimination...But them making it so obvious in regards to age is interesting and should be left up to the courts on a case by case basis IMO.
That's the best answer I can give you. Who knows what the courts will say though.

|

3/3/2018 9:27 AM

dirtmike86 wrote:

I have no idea wether thats legal or not, but i will say that even though i know there are smart kids that know how to shoot ...more

It seems like reasonable request to raise the age to 25 until you start to tell returning vets that they can't buy a firearm .

|

3/3/2018 9:34 AM

FastEddy wrote:

They may run into discrimination suits making their reasoning so obvious in regards to age only.
You arent going to get a ...more

That’s kind of what I was looking for. That was one reason I thought this argument would hold water is because they are literally releasing statements saying they’ll refuse to sell to anyone under 21. If they just did some under the radar thing then maybe they could get by with saying it wasn’t because of their age, like you said. But with them releasing this statement that directly conflicts with federal law, I think if someone wanted to challenge it, they’d have a good chance of winning. Like I said though, I doubt firearm purchasers care. They’ll just go elsewhere.

|

3/3/2018 9:37 AM

dirtmike86 wrote:

I have no idea wether thats legal or not, but i will say that even though i know there are smart kids that know how to shoot ...more

MR. X wrote:

It seems like reasonable request to raise the age to 25 until you start to tell returning vets that they can't buy a firearm . ...more

True. I started thinking about what i said and think that maybe you should have to have prior military experience or be required to take a hands on trainning course if you are under 25. I have many guns so iam not some anti gun nut. I just think its crazy that buying a gun is easier then getting a drivers license.

|

3/3/2018 9:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 9:43 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

That’s kind of what I was looking for. That was one reason I thought this argument would hold water is because they are ...more

Yeah, they are making it a company policy which I assume their defense to the policy would be something like...They have great reason to believe selling to anyone under the age of 21 is a danger to themselves or the public etc...based off incidents/stats/etc..
That would be my best guess. It would be up to each person I assume to prove otherwise in court possibly if they feel discriminated against or maybe a class action suit against the policy.
There's no telling what the courts would rule.
And yeah better off going elsewhere.

|

3/3/2018 9:43 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 9:47 AM

dirtmike86 wrote:

I have no idea wether thats legal or not, but i will say that even though i know there are smart kids that know how to shoot ...more

MR. X wrote:

It seems like reasonable request to raise the age to 25 until you start to tell returning vets that they can't buy a firearm . ...more

There are millions of 18 year old citizens that are more than capable of owning a firearm. Makes sense that they raise the age. (No it doesn’t)

Average age of a mass gun murderer is 34. Better just restrict it to 35 just to be “extra” safe. The real problem here is that we don’t have established by law gun free zones.

Walmart and dicks can do whatever they want. They’re a private company. If they don’t want to sell you a pot because you’re not a 25 year old female with 2 kids then they can do so. Gonna be wierd situation for the ruling with this one. Loose interpretation will prevail. The same judge in favor of restricting sale of firearms by age will be the same judge against limiting the buying power of the potential pot buyer. And by pot I’m not talking about drugs.

Dicks ammo prices suck for what I buy. I don’t even like going in that place anyway. Expensive. Selection isn’t specialized it’s like an overpriced blanket-amateur store. The c class riders of fitness, sporting goods, fishing, golf, kayaking, mountain biking....etc.

|

GP740
Since 1987

3/3/2018 9:45 AM

Don't know much about your legal system over there, but can a shop refuse a sale if they believe it would be a danger to the safety of the person buying? If thats the case they could argue a long those lines.

|

3/3/2018 10:08 AM

I live in one of the hardest states to purchase a firearm , i know of 2 people personally who were refused . They don't tell you why ,it's up to you to take it to the next level and find out why . As far as pistol permits go , i know a few people who are going over 18 months and still waiting . Everything seems like a reasonable request to go about owning a firearm in a civilized country until the guy who passed the laws(on midnight of a holiday) talks about confiscation being a real possibility . How are people supposed to react other then to refuse to budge at all. I say Dicks should either stop selling all together or go by the written law.

|

3/3/2018 10:25 AM

Not sure of my facts here but I think Dicks sold guns to under 21's that got used in a couple of these recent shootings. They make most of their money from outdoor/sports equipment...not guns. They don't want the bad optics. I sure don't know the law but they appear to be in a no win scenario.

|

If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

3/3/2018 11:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 11:20 AM

I'm not going to take up cause against a private entity deciding how they do business on their own private property just because I don't agree with it.

|

3/3/2018 11:22 AM

Ebs wrote:

I'm not going to take up cause against a private entity deciding how they do business on their own private property just ...more

Personally, I agree. But that highly publicized baker case is one that we can adequately compare to this if someone does contest it in court.

|

3/3/2018 12:09 PM

Dick's has done stupid shit before, this is nothing new for them.

21 to buy a gun? Since an 18 year old is still just a child and incapable of making sound decisions, how about 21 to vote?

|

3/3/2018 12:11 PM

Oh, and Dick's prices on ammo suck.

sgammo.com

|

3/3/2018 12:40 PM

newmann wrote:

Oh, and Dick's prices on ammo suck.

sgammo.com

Must be nice to shop mail order sad

|

3/3/2018 12:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 12:43 PM

newmann wrote:

Dick's has done stupid shit before, this is nothing new for them.

21 to buy a gun? Since an 18 year old is still just a ...more

Walmart is planning on doing it too and taking it one step farther with removing some toy & air rifles.

Photo

|

3/3/2018 1:03 PM

newmann wrote:

Dick's has done stupid shit before, this is nothing new for them.

21 to buy a gun? Since an 18 year old is still just a ...more

People shouldn't be allowed to vote until they move out, work full time and pay taxes.

As far as Dick's, they'll have to answer to thier stakeholders if this causes a loss of profits.

|

No Signature.

3/3/2018 2:31 PM

newmann wrote:

Dick's has done stupid shit before, this is nothing new for them.

21 to buy a gun? Since an 18 year old is still just a ...more


Or join the Army.
|

3/3/2018 2:47 PM

MR. X wrote:

I live in one of the hardest states to purchase a firearm , i know of 2 people personally who were refused . They don't tell ...more

I guess I shouldn't bitch about having to wait 10 to pick up a firearm huh?

|

The older I get, the faster I was.

3/3/2018 2:53 PM

dirtmike86 wrote:

True. I started thinking about what i said and think that maybe you should have to have prior military experience or be ...more

Well, keep in mind you are comparing a right with a privilege. You should not have a waiting period or pay a fee to exercise your constitutional rights.

|

The older I get, the faster I was.

3/3/2018 3:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 3:14 PM

MR. X wrote:

It seems like reasonable request to raise the age to 25 until you start to tell returning vets that they can't buy a firearm . ...more

dirtmike86 wrote:

True. I started thinking about what i said and think that maybe you should have to have prior military experience or be ...more

captmoto wrote:

Well, keep in mind you are comparing a right with a privilege. You should not have a waiting period or pay a fee to exercise ...more

Well i should not have to shower or wipe my ass but it makes things more comfortable for the people around me.

P.s i dont know where i was going with that lol.

|

3/3/2018 3:21 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 3:23 PM

captmoto wrote:

Well, keep in mind you are comparing a right with a privilege. You should not have a waiting period or pay a fee to exercise ...more

So according to your logic a five-year-old should be able to buy a gun because it's a constitutional right granted to every citizen of the United States. In regards to the original question, it's private enterprise. My game my rules. Along the lines of we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Isn't that a right too?

|

3/3/2018 3:29 PM

dirtmike86 wrote:

True. I started thinking about what i said and think that maybe you should have to have prior military experience or be ...more

captmoto wrote:

Well, keep in mind you are comparing a right with a privilege. You should not have a waiting period or pay a fee to exercise ...more

BMSOBx2 wrote:

So according to your logic a five-year-old should be able to buy a gun because it's a constitutional right granted to every ...more

No. You can reserve the right to refuse service for many reasons. But there are certain ones you can’t refuse service due to. Age is one. Gender is another. Sexual orientation is another. Etc etc. Which is why I posed this question to begin with. Their business is discriminating based solely on age, which conflicts both with anti-discrimination laws and with the federal firearm law of being 18.

|

3/3/2018 3:52 PM

newmann wrote:

Dick's has done stupid shit before, this is nothing new for them.

21 to buy a gun? Since an 18 year old is still just a ...more

you could make the argument if your not considered responsible enough to buy a beer at 18, why can you buy a gun

|

3/3/2018 4:02 PM

scott_nz wrote:

you could make the argument if your not considered responsible enough to buy a beer at 18, why can you buy a gun

Oh s***! Somebody brought logic to the discussion. Can only go downhill from here.

|

3/3/2018 4:11 PM

Andy_Greenney wrote:

Don't know much about your legal system over there, but can a shop refuse a sale if they believe it would be a danger to the ...more

They not only can, it’s their responsibility to. For instance, if a person appears inebriated, or even slightly gives a hint of being a “straw purchaser”, the retailer is to refuse the sale.

But those things are based on observations of the individual, which is far different from what these retailers are doing. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out if it’s challenged.

Once upon a time my grandfather was refused when attempting to purchase brandy that a doctor had prescribed for my mother’s cough because a store clerk felt that he “looked Indian”. Things happen like this, but they are rarer today.

And the OP would probably be surprised how many people purchase their guns at a Walmart. The pricing can be incredibly competitive and most people that I know who have purchased 3+ long guns have bought at least one at Walmart....

|

3/3/2018 4:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/3/2018 4:19 PM

newmann wrote:

Dick's has done stupid shit before, this is nothing new for them.

21 to buy a gun? Since an 18 year old is still just a ...more

scott_nz wrote:

you could make the argument if your not considered responsible enough to buy a beer at 18, why can you buy a gun

And kids can decide their gender in elementary school and should be able to have an abortion at 14 without parental consent. There is all kinds of weird out there. When they raised the drinking age here in Texas to 19 and then a year or so later to 21, we just hopped the border to Louisiana where it was still 18. You know, like all those guns outside of Chicago. Of course if we got caught bringing it back to Texas we could have gotten in trouble so we drank it all over there.laughing

|