Save us Elon!

XXVoid MainXX
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Edited Date/Time 7/5/2017 8:56pm
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motoxracer723
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5/2/2017 12:26pm
Great video, I hadn't seen that one. Having a couple drinks with Elon would be super interesting, if he's this forward thinking in public I can't imagine what his napkin ideas are.
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5/2/2017 2:07pm
Yeah, that talk just happened a couple of days ago. Definitely an amazing person.
borg
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5/2/2017 4:50pm
He seems to be able to attract enough money, private and public, that he can postpone practicality for a fairly long time.

Colonizing other planets is as old as comic books, but the idea has remained there for good reason.

Multi level underground freeways? Under Los Angeles? With elevators as on ramps? I really think that he's a practical joker. He's trying to see how ridiculous he can get and still attract money.





kzizok
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5/2/2017 7:12pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2017 7:14pm
TED talks are amazing. They had them showing at a couple of theaters here. I told myself I was going to go. But I didnt, cause Im a loser.

Thanks for posting that.

The Shop

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5/2/2017 8:14pm
borg wrote:
He seems to be able to attract enough money, private and public, that he can postpone practicality for a fairly long time. Colonizing other planets is...
He seems to be able to attract enough money, private and public, that he can postpone practicality for a fairly long time.

Colonizing other planets is as old as comic books, but the idea has remained there for good reason.

Multi level underground freeways? Under Los Angeles? With elevators as on ramps? I really think that he's a practical joker. He's trying to see how ridiculous he can get and still attract money.





That's what they said when he told them he was going to build rockets and land them on their tail back where they started from. Smile Also, most of these things he does he uses his own money and doesn't get outside money. SpaceX is a prime example of that. He made billions on PayPal and put all that into SpaceX. He had like 3 failures in a row and if the last launch didn't work he would have been broke. He also put a lot of his own money into Tesla. But, Tesla did take a 465 million dollar government loan that they promptly paid back plus 20 million in interest if I recall. Here's an interesting article I read today regarding how SpaceX is really shaking things up:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/air-force-study-says-us-governm…

A snippet:

This concept has found at least one powerful political backer. On Monday, during a series of briefings on the subject in the US Senate Building, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich spoke in favor of the concept. He questioned whether the US Office of Management and Budget should allow the government to purchase expendable rockets now that lower-cost, reusable options are becoming available.

According to NASA Watch, Gingrich was also critical of the space agency’s development of the Space Launch System. This NASA heavy-lift vehicle runs counter to the trends cited in the Air University report in that it is both very expensive to launch (at least $1 billion) and will launch at most once per year. Gingrich predicted the NASA rocket could become a “museum piece” due to this high cost and low flight rate.
borg
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5/3/2017 7:22am
Better rocket technology is a good outcome from one of his endeavors. So is better battery technology. But that does not automatically give credence to every one of his ideas. I realize that you are very interested in technology and especially space exploration. But just because something that seemed outrageous becomes possible doesn't mean that there is any practical value or use in it.

What is the real practical value of manned flight to Mars? It's research. He says we need to do this so that when Earth goes dead, humans will have another place to live. In other words, let's colonize a dead planet, so we have a place to go when our planet goes dead. What?

Here's what bothers me: Musk didn't directly answer how SpaceX plans to pay for its Mars missions, but he said it will be "a huge public-private partnership." There are public and private organizations interested in funding the mission, Musk said.
Article


You said he does not use government money. That's very far from accurate. He gets $7500.00 from the taxpayers for every one of of his cars that gets sold to a rich person. He also gets taxpayer subsidies for every one of his solar panels that gets sold. Now he wants the taxpayers to help pay for millionaires to travel to Mars.

I don't doubt that he is a genius but my gimlet eye comes out when anybody starts talking "public, private partnership".

Because of your interest in technology, you may not really care that much about this aspect of it. And that's fine but it's this aspect that takes some of the shine off of him for me. Plus I'm exceedingly boring and practical.

Google "Musk subsidies" for an eye opener. It's in the billions.
tcannon521
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5/3/2017 8:38am
borg wrote:
Better rocket technology is a good outcome from one of his endeavors. So is better battery technology. But that does not automatically give credence to every...
Better rocket technology is a good outcome from one of his endeavors. So is better battery technology. But that does not automatically give credence to every one of his ideas. I realize that you are very interested in technology and especially space exploration. But just because something that seemed outrageous becomes possible doesn't mean that there is any practical value or use in it.

What is the real practical value of manned flight to Mars? It's research. He says we need to do this so that when Earth goes dead, humans will have another place to live. In other words, let's colonize a dead planet, so we have a place to go when our planet goes dead. What?

Here's what bothers me: Musk didn't directly answer how SpaceX plans to pay for its Mars missions, but he said it will be "a huge public-private partnership." There are public and private organizations interested in funding the mission, Musk said.
Article


You said he does not use government money. That's very far from accurate. He gets $7500.00 from the taxpayers for every one of of his cars that gets sold to a rich person. He also gets taxpayer subsidies for every one of his solar panels that gets sold. Now he wants the taxpayers to help pay for millionaires to travel to Mars.

I don't doubt that he is a genius but my gimlet eye comes out when anybody starts talking "public, private partnership".

Because of your interest in technology, you may not really care that much about this aspect of it. And that's fine but it's this aspect that takes some of the shine off of him for me. Plus I'm exceedingly boring and practical.

Google "Musk subsidies" for an eye opener. It's in the billions.
Musk didn't create or lobby for any of the subsidies he benefits from. Every new technology has benefited from subsidies and a lot of old technology still benefits from them. Find me another CEO who would go on the record saying what Elon did in this link.

http://electrek.co/2016/10/10/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-challenges-big-coal-toe-to-toe-without-subsidies-after-called-fraud/amp/
cse
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5/3/2017 8:44am
Good video. I like that Musk is not afraid to propose and pursue ideas that could make the world a better place. Some of it is certainly far-out, but I think those thoughts plant seeds that other people will help grow and it will snowball. I hope there are always people that push the boundaries of what we think is impossible.

I'm generally opposed to government involvement in the private sector, but I do support government subsidies for innovation. Especially when you look at all the other ways are tax money is blown.
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5/3/2017 10:13am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2017 10:37am
tcannon is correct that you can't blame Elon for the subsidies, and if it is the subsidies that you are concerned about I hope you don't drive a gasoline car or use coal supplied electricity because there were 5.3 "trillion" dollars in fossil fuel subsidies in 2015 alone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Regarding Mars, I think the plan is to return it to a living planet which it seems a lot of experts think can be done. But I don't pretend to understand how that would be possible any more than I pretend to understand all the dynamics of climate change. I am skeptical on both. However, I certainly don't think it would hurt trying to find a 2nd option to earth should we discover an asteroid heading our way at some point.

Also, from everything I've seen so far Elon's Mars plans do not include any government subsidies. The Government has their own Mars plan and it doesn't include SpaceX. Donald Trump has made it law that NASA must get people to Mars by 2033 and they have already laid out their plan on how they are going to do it. It will be using the Space Launch System (SLS) and the Orion capsule (at least in the early stages of the project) which both are developed by a few big name Aerospace companies which will be getting a lot of government money. SpaceX isn't one of those companies. Also, I believe SpaceX is shooting for getting there in the 2020, 13 years before NASA.
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5/3/2017 11:10am
It took millennia for homo sapien to evolve and adapt to this rock we are on (and are still adapting to), no way youre gonna put him in an oversized bottle rocket and this genetically terristrial knuckle dragger is gonna survive for long outside that very specific set of conditions.

IMHO.
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5/3/2017 11:17am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2017 11:23am
I have a hard time with it too Racer92 but I wouldn't go so far as to say "no way". I wouldn't mind seeing the attempt made, whether it is ultimately successful or not. I personally wouldn't want to take that trip, at least not until the terraforming is complete, if that is even possible or even would be allowed. It's also amazing to think that it took all that time to evolve and we're living in the time when man finally became evolved enough to leave the planet. Our tiny little minuscule lifespan in the grand scheme of evolution. Imagine how much farther we might go from here, assuming we don't get wiped out by an asteroid, or a little fat man in North Korea, or by carbon emissions?
motoxracer723
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5/3/2017 1:09pm
JAFO92 wrote:
It took millennia for homo sapien to evolve and adapt to this rock we are on (and are still adapting to), no way youre gonna put...
It took millennia for homo sapien to evolve and adapt to this rock we are on (and are still adapting to), no way youre gonna put him in an oversized bottle rocket and this genetically terristrial knuckle dragger is gonna survive for long outside that very specific set of conditions.

IMHO.
The millions of years it took for Humans to show up have nothing to do with the conditions on Earth being optimal for us. It's a combination of a ton of different factors that lead to homo sapiens and 1 standard gravity is a starting point at the bottom of that list.

Plus, to the point, it's not like your taking a person and putting him on Mars as he evolved on Earth. Technology is the equalizer and levels the field a bit to at least allow us to transplant somewhere else.

There's been no long term exposure studies done by anyone's governments on the effects of low or zero g.

Your assumptions may prove right... OR, as life has proven over and over again, via examples of creatures at the bottom of the ocean and the top of the highest mountains, it will adapt and evolve to ambient conditions. Mars has something close to 0.4g's of Earth gravity, meaning you can jump higher and carry more. In turn your bones and muscles wouldn't be as taxed and may become less sturdy. Play this out over a couple of generations (a la The Expanse, tho I haven't watched beyond season 1) and the humans born and raised on Mars will no longer be able to come back and live on Earth as 'normal' humans do today due to physical changes.

Go further with it, and eventually (barring artificial gravity) there may be subsets of humans who differ in their appearance and physiology so much that we break down into different species - Mars humans, Earth humans, humans who only live in 0g. Sci fi? Maybe. But science can't tell us no at this point based upon such limited experience.


I'm a 'crack some eggs to make an omelet' kind of guy - only one way to find out which is to start doing it.
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5/3/2017 1:16pm
tcannon is correct that you can't blame Elon for the subsidies, and if it is the subsidies that you are concerned about I hope you don't...
tcannon is correct that you can't blame Elon for the subsidies, and if it is the subsidies that you are concerned about I hope you don't drive a gasoline car or use coal supplied electricity because there were 5.3 "trillion" dollars in fossil fuel subsidies in 2015 alone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Regarding Mars, I think the plan is to return it to a living planet which it seems a lot of experts think can be done. But I don't pretend to understand how that would be possible any more than I pretend to understand all the dynamics of climate change. I am skeptical on both. However, I certainly don't think it would hurt trying to find a 2nd option to earth should we discover an asteroid heading our way at some point.

Also, from everything I've seen so far Elon's Mars plans do not include any government subsidies. The Government has their own Mars plan and it doesn't include SpaceX. Donald Trump has made it law that NASA must get people to Mars by 2033 and they have already laid out their plan on how they are going to do it. It will be using the Space Launch System (SLS) and the Orion capsule (at least in the early stages of the project) which both are developed by a few big name Aerospace companies which will be getting a lot of government money. SpaceX isn't one of those companies. Also, I believe SpaceX is shooting for getting there in the 2020, 13 years before NASA.
I've heard many on both sides of this discussion. I'm a huge Elon fan. Do I think terraforming Mars as a second home is a viable reason to go there - no. Does it help? Sure.

I think he knows this too, but if he can get enough people to jump on board a go for any number of reasons it doesn't really matter.

Terraforming could take on the order of millions of years. The single biggest thing that Mars has against it in this case is that it DOESN'T HAVE A MAGNETIC FIELD.

If you go through the trouble and jumpstart a greenhouse gas effect somehow (trees, algae, etc) there is nothing keeping the atmosphere there. It's why Mars doesn't have an atmosphere today, it's all blown off in the solar wind.

My comment is, it doesn't matter though. I don't think it should be an expectation that people go to mars and walk around with flip flops and a t shirt - if humans have a self sustaining colony there that indefinitely requires space suits and underground cities, hey no biggie. We're still getting out there and doing it.

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5/3/2017 1:41pm
Well, I've seen estimates as low as 1000 years to terraform to the point where there is a livable atmosphere, which in the grand scheme of things isn't long at all. But, I've also seen 100,000 year estimates. None of this accounts for our advances in technology which is increasing at an exponential rate. And, there are proposed solutions to the magnetic field that claim it is even doable today:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars
TXDirt
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5/3/2017 1:59pm
I'm all for spending money on space exploration. It's one of our greatest sources of knowledge. Both known and unknown. Man has been looking up at the stars since the dawn of time.

Government subsidies are very important in developing new technologies and sometimes creating completely new industries. As a people we should support this with our tax dollars. The technology invented today could be the industries your children work in tomorrow.
motoxracer723
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5/3/2017 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2017 4:47pm
Well, I've seen estimates as low as 1000 years to terraform to the point where there is a livable atmosphere, which in the grand scheme of...
Well, I've seen estimates as low as 1000 years to terraform to the point where there is a livable atmosphere, which in the grand scheme of things isn't long at all. But, I've also seen 100,000 year estimates. None of this accounts for our advances in technology which is increasing at an exponential rate. And, there are proposed solutions to the magnetic field that claim it is even doable today:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars
Truth. I guess what I meant is, when the naysayers use the 'we'll never do it so we might as well not try' argument I believe there's a ton of reasons to go there anyway.

XXVoid MainXX
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Yeah, I'm actually Neutral on the Mars thing. I think it would be entertaining as hell to watch, and I hope I have invested in all the right stocks. Smile Hoping SpaceX goes public soon. There was an article out today that teased that it might, but I think the article had no merit, especially after their update:

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-ipo-tesla-tsla-investors-early-access-…
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5/3/2017 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2017 7:25pm
tcannon is correct that you can't blame Elon for the subsidies, and if it is the subsidies that you are concerned about I hope you don't...
tcannon is correct that you can't blame Elon for the subsidies, and if it is the subsidies that you are concerned about I hope you don't drive a gasoline car or use coal supplied electricity because there were 5.3 "trillion" dollars in fossil fuel subsidies in 2015 alone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Regarding Mars, I think the plan is to return it to a living planet which it seems a lot of experts think can be done. But I don't pretend to understand how that would be possible any more than I pretend to understand all the dynamics of climate change. I am skeptical on both. However, I certainly don't think it would hurt trying to find a 2nd option to earth should we discover an asteroid heading our way at some point.

Also, from everything I've seen so far Elon's Mars plans do not include any government subsidies. The Government has their own Mars plan and it doesn't include SpaceX. Donald Trump has made it law that NASA must get people to Mars by 2033 and they have already laid out their plan on how they are going to do it. It will be using the Space Launch System (SLS) and the Orion capsule (at least in the early stages of the project) which both are developed by a few big name Aerospace companies which will be getting a lot of government money. SpaceX isn't one of those companies. Also, I believe SpaceX is shooting for getting there in the 2020, 13 years before NASA.
So 5.3 trillion would allow 265,000,000 homes to have an energy independent system at a cost average of $20,000 per system. Basically within 3 years every home and business would be self sufficient at that rate. Now if everyone but 10% of the population went to electric vehicles and the solar array on their home powered their home and car how much energy independence do we and our country gain? Another benefit is when we reduce our oil, coal, nuclear and natural gas needs how many less vehicles would be on the road with the benefits being less pollution and infrastructure deterioration from manufacturing and hauling energy?

Currently home energy storage systems aren't cost effective but within the next 4-6 years I have a feeling the cost will drop significantly. We would still need hydro, nuclear, wind and natural gas powered plants for the near future but we could easily eliminate gas and nuclear sooner than later.
XXVoid MainXX
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5/3/2017 7:42pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2017 7:44pm
It really doesn't make sense to me why "anyone" other than people directly in the fossil fuel business would not be 100% on board with moving to clean energy as soon as possible. It just makes sense. I can think of several reasons off the top of my head why moving to renewable is a good and a necessary move, even if you completely discount the climate change stuff (which I myself am not 100% on board with).

1) Non-renewable resources by definition are limited. It is a fact that we will eventually use up all of the liquid dinosaurs (oil) and coal if we keep using it, even if it takes another 1000 years to do it.
2) Using non-renewable resources pollute the air that we breath.
3) What if 1000 years down the road we find some magnificent use for oil that we can’t even comprehend today, but since our ancestors burned it all up in their cars we have none left.
4) Being dependent on resources from outside countries is extremely risky.

We now have the technology to make this possible. We just need the will. China... CHINA of all countries... are making great strides in solar production. They may be clean before we are in the USA and if we don't get on board soon China will run us right over in this area. They're doing it because it's cheaper and it's sustainable. A byproduct is a clean environment.
motoxracer723
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5/4/2017 5:12am Edited Date/Time 5/4/2017 5:13am
The moon versus Mars argument is a valid one. In the context of the thread title, I know Elon has set his sights on Mars for good reason.

That said, the Moon is a logical stepping stone. I think there are as many good reasons to establish an outpost there as bad ones to skip it. However, I think the bottom line is the distance - 3 days versus 5-18 months of travel (depending on who you talk to). You can't get away from the idea that it's in our backyard.

Elon might not want to go but per this article, and others I've seen, some companies (and countries) are going to make it happen in the relative short term.

Fingers crossed humans will be on two extra-earth bodies within the next 50 years, or sooner!
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5/4/2017 9:16am Edited Date/Time 5/4/2017 9:17am
kind of funny i read a guy who talks on lots of things but every once in a while he talks about elon musk tesla . anyway for S+G's I take a look today..

"Then there's Tesla. Tesla loses money on every car they sell even with government subsidies! In other words it's a tax farm and yet it loses money even after stealing funds for every car from the taxpayer! Those subsidies, by the way, will eventually expire and when they do the company will lose even more money per vehicle sold. The only reason Tesla is still in business is that it, like Netflix keeps going back to the bond market and convincing them to pour more cash on a bonfire and, by the way, their total debt load is now greater than their annual revenue! This is a company that, on a current operating basis is an outrageous zero and exists only because it manages to convince the bond market and steal from the taxpayer." So there you have it , not everyone is so enamored by mr musk...

I wonder if i can short tesla?
XXVoid MainXX
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5/4/2017 9:57am
Well, my 1 share of TSLA took a hit today after yesterday's conference call. BUT, I have several others that took a MUCH worse hit today for some reason! Not sure what happened. Regarding Moon vs Mars, it's probably better to learn (or remember) how to walk before you run so I don't think it's a bad idea, even if the environments are a bit different. The moon is closer and easier to get to. SpaceX plans to send 2 paying customer around the moon next year. We'll see if that materializes.
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5/4/2017 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2017 9:00pm
tuggy450 wrote:
kind of funny i read a guy who talks on lots of things but every once in a while he talks about elon musk tesla...
kind of funny i read a guy who talks on lots of things but every once in a while he talks about elon musk tesla . anyway for S+G's I take a look today..

"Then there's Tesla. Tesla loses money on every car they sell even with government subsidies! In other words it's a tax farm and yet it loses money even after stealing funds for every car from the taxpayer! Those subsidies, by the way, will eventually expire and when they do the company will lose even more money per vehicle sold. The only reason Tesla is still in business is that it, like Netflix keeps going back to the bond market and convincing them to pour more cash on a bonfire and, by the way, their total debt load is now greater than their annual revenue! This is a company that, on a current operating basis is an outrageous zero and exists only because it manages to convince the bond market and steal from the taxpayer." So there you have it , not everyone is so enamored by mr musk...

I wonder if i can short tesla?
This guy's statement is so far from the truth. Tesla doesn't lose money on each car they sell. Tesla is making money on each vehicle but they are rapidly expanding their showroom and charging network as well as building an 8 billion dollar battery factory. The deal is, once you make money (amazon) in a publicly traded stock Wall Street expects it every quarter. Tesla is smart in the fact it's building all of these things before turning a profit. The gigafactory will reduce battery costs by 30-50% plus once fully functional it will be able to supply batteries for the mass production of vehicles and home energy storage. As for the tax credit part, tesla gets ZEV credits which they always have a surplus of. They usually sell them to other OEM's at a reduced cost because they are limited on how many can be redeemed but the government allows transferring them. Don't fool yourself though, every manufacturer gets and uses ZEV credits not just tesla. The better statement is tesla is burning through more money than it is collecting a quarter currently.

Why do so many people back and invest in Tesla if it's so toxic? A great analogy for Tesla is they are the first to perfect and successfully sell word processers while everyone else is still selling typewriters. Who would you rather invest in?

Amazon is another great example. Just 10 years ago everyone thought Walmart was invincible to any competitors but an internet company named Amazon built warehouses and distribution across the country (technically still building) and at this point will surpass Walmart without any real brick and mortar stores very soon. All while not making a profit until they had distribution on every corner of the globe.

That said, I love buying and selling Tesla stock 4-6 times a year because of its volatility from misinformed talking heads. Cool
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5/4/2017 8:28pm
Tc interesting take on Tesla. Guess I am just too risk averse for that stuff.
XXVoid MainXX
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5/5/2017 6:28am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2017 6:29am
I didn't start investing in stocks until the beginning of last year when the market was really down. I bought a few shares of Amazon at I believe around 400 or a little more. It's almost 1000 now. Wish I had bought more! Also wish I had bought TSLA back then. I really really wanted to but I could never pull the trigger. I did buy one share a couple of weeks ago when it was at its highest (you're welcome tc). The thinking is I'll buy more when/if it comes back down.
borg
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5/5/2017 7:11am
I didn't start investing in stocks until the beginning of last year when the market was really down. I bought a few shares of Amazon at...
I didn't start investing in stocks until the beginning of last year when the market was really down. I bought a few shares of Amazon at I believe around 400 or a little more. It's almost 1000 now. Wish I had bought more! Also wish I had bought TSLA back then. I really really wanted to but I could never pull the trigger. I did buy one share a couple of weeks ago when it was at its highest (you're welcome tc). The thinking is I'll buy more when/if it comes back down.
Because TSLA does not really trade on fundamentals it's hard to nail down a buy point. Analysts don't really have a handle on it either for the same reasons. Right now they are split in thirds. 1/3 say buy, 1/3 hold, 1/3 sell. If you are looking for good news and reasons to buy, you'll find it. If you are down on TSLA and are looking for bad news and reasons to sell, you'll find it. tcannon is investing in his own ability to time this stock, which is fine. I did it for years. And really, it's the only thing you can do with a stock like this.
borg
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5/5/2017 7:22am
tcannon521 wrote:
This guy's statement is so far from the truth. Tesla doesn't lose money on each car they sell. Tesla is making money on each vehicle but...
This guy's statement is so far from the truth. Tesla doesn't lose money on each car they sell. Tesla is making money on each vehicle but they are rapidly expanding their showroom and charging network as well as building an 8 billion dollar battery factory. The deal is, once you make money (amazon) in a publicly traded stock Wall Street expects it every quarter. Tesla is smart in the fact it's building all of these things before turning a profit. The gigafactory will reduce battery costs by 30-50% plus once fully functional it will be able to supply batteries for the mass production of vehicles and home energy storage. As for the tax credit part, tesla gets ZEV credits which they always have a surplus of. They usually sell them to other OEM's at a reduced cost because they are limited on how many can be redeemed but the government allows transferring them. Don't fool yourself though, every manufacturer gets and uses ZEV credits not just tesla. The better statement is tesla is burning through more money than it is collecting a quarter currently.

Why do so many people back and invest in Tesla if it's so toxic? A great analogy for Tesla is they are the first to perfect and successfully sell word processers while everyone else is still selling typewriters. Who would you rather invest in?

Amazon is another great example. Just 10 years ago everyone thought Walmart was invincible to any competitors but an internet company named Amazon built warehouses and distribution across the country (technically still building) and at this point will surpass Walmart without any real brick and mortar stores very soon. All while not making a profit until they had distribution on every corner of the globe.

That said, I love buying and selling Tesla stock 4-6 times a year because of its volatility from misinformed talking heads. Cool
That said, I love buying and selling Tesla stock 4-6 times a year because of its volatility from misinformed talking heads.

Do you have a plan on how to trade the Model 3 hit or miss on production startup scheduled for July?

If I was still trading I would not expect a big selloff if he misses because he almost always does on startups. The faithful are used to being disappointed but it may prove to be a buy point. If he hits, and production starts on time I would expect a surge. So there's the question: are you a buyer ahead of that news?
tuggy450
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5/5/2017 9:26am
borg wrote:
[i]That said, I love buying and selling Tesla stock 4-6 times a year because of its volatility from misinformed talking heads. [/i] Do you have a...
That said, I love buying and selling Tesla stock 4-6 times a year because of its volatility from misinformed talking heads.

Do you have a plan on how to trade the Model 3 hit or miss on production startup scheduled for July?

If I was still trading I would not expect a big selloff if he misses because he almost always does on startups. The faithful are used to being disappointed but it may prove to be a buy point. If he hits, and production starts on time I would expect a surge. So there's the question: are you a buyer ahead of that news?
I get ya borg, your right it is not trading on fundamentals, either is Amazon. What they are trading on is pie in the sky forward based earnings predictions, Trading these stocks are much more dangerous than trading a company with solid earnings, reasonable p/e ratios. But I would think the inherent volatility of that is what drives traders wild. Wild swings makes wild profits. The chart on this one looks like it has been going straight up for a while,

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