Question for builders...

borg
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8/8/2019 6:33pm Edited Date/Time 9/25/2019 11:49am
I'm working on a residential addition/remodel. I got called in to the situation after damage had been done but the situation is still redeemable. We are now at the stage where the all the drywall is up and textured. No interior doors are in yet and no casing or base. Also the floors are still unfinished. My procedure is to prime and paint the walls now with eggshell and semi gloss in the kitchen and baths. Install the interior doors and paint in place with semi gloss. Install the finished flooring. Lay out the casing and base and paint with semi gloss and install. That's how I have always done it. The home owner is getting advice from a friend who says he should install the floors first, then the casing and base and then spray everything the same color and sheen.

My question is do you call this idiot a friend?

I guess his method works if you plan to rent the house out to tweakers and have to repaint every 16 months but these people are going to live in this house. I would have accent colors, different colors in different rooms, I also think pastels with off white trim looks really good in bedrooms. I might spray primer on the walls but I would at least back roll the paint.

Anyway, just trying to change the subject a bit.

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RONJ OSE
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8/8/2019 6:48pm
borg wrote:
I'm working on a residential addition/remodel. I got called in to the situation after damage had been done but the situation is still redeemable. We are...
I'm working on a residential addition/remodel. I got called in to the situation after damage had been done but the situation is still redeemable. We are now at the stage where the all the drywall is up and textured. No interior doors are in yet and no casing or base. Also the floors are still unfinished. My procedure is to prime and paint the walls now with eggshell and semi gloss in the kitchen and baths. Install the interior doors and paint in place with semi gloss. Install the finished flooring. Lay out the casing and base and paint with semi gloss and install. That's how I have always done it. The home owner is getting advice from a friend who says he should install the floors first, then the casing and base and then spray everything the same color and sheen.

My question is do you call this idiot a friend?

I guess his method works if you plan to rent the house out to tweakers and have to repaint every 16 months but these people are going to live in this house. I would have accent colors, different colors in different rooms, I also think pastels with off white trim looks really good in bedrooms. I might spray primer on the walls but I would at least back roll the paint.

Anyway, just trying to change the subject a bit.

You’re the contractor his friend isn’t do it the right way
-MAVERICK-
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8/8/2019 7:07pm
Prefinished floors?

Prime, paint, floors, trim/casing, touch ups.

You could also grab pieces of flooring as a template, install trim/casing, prime, paint, install floors, touch up paint.

Seen it done both ways.

I've personally never walked in a new build where the floors were finished before the painting guys were scheduled to go do the job.
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motogrady
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8/8/2019 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 8/8/2019 7:13pm
If the caseing is in first you will have to fit the flooring around it. It's always a pain and u will probably not get it as tight as if the flooring is down first. Base cabinets are the same. Set then before the flooring and you will almost always need to run 1/4 round trim under the kick plates.

Paint, semi gloss will show imperfections in the drywall much more than flat.
Remember, what one thinks is a cool color may be terrible to another.

Primer, eh. I don't even bother with that anymore.
Unless there are water stains, or some kind of green color you are trying to cover, green and water marks are the hardest to cover, and sometimes need to be kilzed, just get a few 5 gallon buckets of good flat eggshell white, throw 2 coats on it and be done. It's neutral, it's clean looking, bright and light, and easy to match later on.
Dirtydeeds
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8/8/2019 7:13pm
I’m currently wrapping up a complete interior remodel. I install everything then let the painters do their thing. They tape everything off spray all woodwork (cabinetry and moldings) then clean up. All thats left is electrical finish, appliances and cabinet doors. Been doing it this way for 15+ years.
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Brad460
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8/8/2019 7:18pm Edited Date/Time 8/8/2019 7:21pm
I am assuming the woodwork is going to be white and so you will caulk and spray....Contractors prefer the flooring go in last so they don’t need to worry about covering/protecting the floors- makes it easier on them. But, then shoe mounding has to be installed and painted after the flooring, so what’s the difference? Technically as a contractor flooring last is preferred, doesn’t make it wrong or right.

I personally think putting the flooring down first allows for a cleaner looking job when installing the casing and base...plus no need for shoe mounding and no need to trim the bottom of the casing for the flooring to fit under (if run long).

I finished off our lower level and did the work in this order: Painted the walls, installed the flooring and lastly installed the casing and base. However the woodwork was natural pine I pre-sprayed clear.


That being said...separate topic...egg shell and semi gloss are awful..too shiny and out of date IMO. Can’t believe people would spec that. Flat or lo-sheen much better..Wink

Edit- I was typing when the replies above where submitted..basically repeated same as above..
borg
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8/8/2019 7:24pm
motogrady wrote:
If the caseing is in first you will have to fit the flooring around it. It's always a pain and u will probably not get it...
If the caseing is in first you will have to fit the flooring around it. It's always a pain and u will probably not get it as tight as if the flooring is down first. Base cabinets are the same. Set then before the flooring and you will almost always need to run 1/4 round trim under the kick plates.

Paint, semi gloss will show imperfections in the drywall much more than flat.
Remember, what one thinks is a cool color may be terrible to another.

Primer, eh. I don't even bother with that anymore.
Unless there are water stains, or some kind of green color you are trying to cover, green and water marks are the hardest to cover, and sometimes need to be kilzed, just get a few 5 gallon buckets of good flat eggshell white, throw 2 coats on it and be done. It's neutral, it's clean looking, bright and light, and easy to match later on.
Flooring before casing and base for sure. You do have to seal bare drywall though. You can do it with $25/gal paint or $9/gal PVA. I prefer PVA for bare drywall. Kilz is over rated. If you want to hide stains then it's BIN shellac based primer for me. For kitchen base cabinets I've done it both ways. Doesn't make much difference to me if set on the sub floor or the finished floor.
8/10/2019 8:59pm
motogrady wrote:
If the caseing is in first you will have to fit the flooring around it. It's always a pain and u will probably not get it...
If the caseing is in first you will have to fit the flooring around it. It's always a pain and u will probably not get it as tight as if the flooring is down first. Base cabinets are the same. Set then before the flooring and you will almost always need to run 1/4 round trim under the kick plates.

Paint, semi gloss will show imperfections in the drywall much more than flat.
Remember, what one thinks is a cool color may be terrible to another.

Primer, eh. I don't even bother with that anymore.
Unless there are water stains, or some kind of green color you are trying to cover, green and water marks are the hardest to cover, and sometimes need to be kilzed, just get a few 5 gallon buckets of good flat eggshell white, throw 2 coats on it and be done. It's neutral, it's clean looking, bright and light, and easy to match later on.
borg wrote:
Flooring before casing and base for sure. You do have to seal bare drywall though. You can do it with $25/gal paint or $9/gal PVA. I...
Flooring before casing and base for sure. You do have to seal bare drywall though. You can do it with $25/gal paint or $9/gal PVA. I prefer PVA for bare drywall. Kilz is over rated. If you want to hide stains then it's BIN shellac based primer for me. For kitchen base cabinets I've done it both ways. Doesn't make much difference to me if set on the sub floor or the finished floor.
You should prime with pva before and after texture, then paint. Usually flooring goes in before base and casings, but sometimes it depends on the type of flooring. Cabinets pretty much always go in before flooring.
lostboy819
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8/10/2019 9:18pm
I always do the floors last and pre paint the baseboard and install.
borg
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8/11/2019 9:04am
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on the walls.
woodsrider427
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8/11/2019 9:21am
We rarely do anything but site finished hardwood floors so the raw wood goes down right after the drywall is finished. Then we install all cabinets, trim, etc. My painter paints everything but the base mouldings (prime only) at this point. Once we then do the electrical, plumbing, and HVAC trim outs, the floor guy comes back to sand and finish the floors. We then install matching shoe moulding or paint grade shoe depending on the clients request. Painter is the last one there to paint the base (and shoe if it's painted) and touch up everything else.

We never do it, since we remodel only and every house usually has existing wood floors that we are matching, but if you were doing pre-finished wood floors you would probably want to do them last for less risk of damage. In that case, we would run all the door casings down to the floor and he could cut them up with a flush saw. We would also build up under cabinets the same thickness of the floors to not lose the little bit of height.

As far as paint, would never recommend semi-gloss on walls (trim only), as it would show everything. Satin at the most, but most clients seem to be leaning back towards flat.
Dirtydeeds
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8/11/2019 9:26am
borg wrote:
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on...
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on the walls.
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll be tearin all this shit out in 10 years to keep up with the new pinterest ideas. Just hoping red oak never makes a comeback. God that shits ugly.
woodsrider427
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8/11/2019 9:42am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2019 9:43am
borg wrote:
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on...
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on the walls.
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll...
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll be tearin all this shit out in 10 years to keep up with the new pinterest ideas. Just hoping red oak never makes a comeback. God that shits ugly.
It is amazing how often the styles change, I've been in business 21 years now this month and have seen several significant changes. You're right, everything we are doing now is white on white with a little light grey on the backsplash and walls. Usually a darker color on the island if they have one. What will it be next. Oh well, keeps me in business.
Dirtydeeds
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8/11/2019 9:48am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2019 9:49am
borg wrote:
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on...
The painters finished. It's looks OK if you like institutional decor. At least the nuthouse in One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest had two colors on the walls.
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll...
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll be tearin all this shit out in 10 years to keep up with the new pinterest ideas. Just hoping red oak never makes a comeback. God that shits ugly.
It is amazing how often the styles change, I've been in business 21 years now this month and have seen several significant changes. You're right, everything...
It is amazing how often the styles change, I've been in business 21 years now this month and have seen several significant changes. You're right, everything we are doing now is white on white with a little light grey on the backsplash and walls. Usually a darker color on the island if they have one. What will it be next. Oh well, keeps me in business.
Oh! And floating shelves instead of upper cabinets. Or a combo of both

Edit: and barn doors! I must admit those are fun to build. Get to make an opposing pair in the next week or two out of 8/4 walnut.
woodsrider427
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8/11/2019 9:54am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2019 9:56am
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll...
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll be tearin all this shit out in 10 years to keep up with the new pinterest ideas. Just hoping red oak never makes a comeback. God that shits ugly.
It is amazing how often the styles change, I've been in business 21 years now this month and have seen several significant changes. You're right, everything...
It is amazing how often the styles change, I've been in business 21 years now this month and have seen several significant changes. You're right, everything we are doing now is white on white with a little light grey on the backsplash and walls. Usually a darker color on the island if they have one. What will it be next. Oh well, keeps me in business.
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Oh! And floating shelves instead of upper cabinets. Or a combo of both Edit: and barn doors! I must admit those are fun to build. Get...
Oh! And floating shelves instead of upper cabinets. Or a combo of both

Edit: and barn doors! I must admit those are fun to build. Get to make an opposing pair in the next week or two out of 8/4 walnut.


Too funny!! Brackets for floating shelves installed on Friday.

Barn doors is a fad I hope goes away soon.
borg
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8/11/2019 10:14am
I have to install a floating, double sink vanity in the bath. Effing plumbers put the drain stub outs too low.
Dirtydeeds
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9/24/2019 6:56pm
Had to dig this one up. Just finished this whole house remodel for a local fast guy/industry test rider. It’s got it all, the farm sink, floating shelves, panoramic doors and barn doors. Came out pretty sweet. Cabinets and barn doors built in house by yours truly. Actually did all the framing (removed a couple load bearing walls) flooring and doors too.






















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Brad460
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9/24/2019 7:01pm
^^ very nice!
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bana0401
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9/25/2019 7:01am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2019 7:02am
Brad460 wrote:
^^ very nice!
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Thanks man! Appreciate it
How did you do those Barn Doors, is it two kits butted up against each other? I think the opening is 54" x 96" for the one I am doing.




early
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9/25/2019 7:13am
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll...
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll be tearin all this shit out in 10 years to keep up with the new pinterest ideas. Just hoping red oak never makes a comeback. God that shits ugly.
These clean simple looks are pretty timeless and will probably be changed (unfortunately) to something more gawdy in the future. Like when you walk into a 100 year old 1919 Craftsman and everything still looks fucking killer in the place. Gotta agree about the red oak. I've been house hunting for my brother and the early 2000's half-assed Tuscan Villa kitchen and bath styles are damn laughable. They were the height of luxury for Italian boomers though.
Dirtydeeds
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9/25/2019 7:15am
bana0401 wrote:
How did you do those Barn Doors, is it two kits butted up against each other? I think the opening is 54" x 96" for the...
How did you do those Barn Doors, is it two kits butted up against each other? I think the opening is 54" x 96" for the one I am doing.




This is a 75” opening. Doors are 3’3”. The hardware kit is 13’. The track came in 2 pieces with a plate and screws to join them in the center. The longest I’ve done without a splice is 10’!
Dirtydeeds
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9/25/2019 7:19am
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll...
Tell me about it. Everyone wants white on white on white right now. Oh and shaker doors everywhere. Or the blue/gray accent cabinet. All good. I’ll be tearin all this shit out in 10 years to keep up with the new pinterest ideas. Just hoping red oak never makes a comeback. God that shits ugly.
early wrote:
These clean simple looks are pretty timeless and will probably be changed (unfortunately) to something more gawdy in the future. Like when you walk into a...
These clean simple looks are pretty timeless and will probably be changed (unfortunately) to something more gawdy in the future. Like when you walk into a 100 year old 1919 Craftsman and everything still looks fucking killer in the place. Gotta agree about the red oak. I've been house hunting for my brother and the early 2000's half-assed Tuscan Villa kitchen and bath styles are damn laughable. They were the height of luxury for Italian boomers though.
Oh yeah! Speaking of Tuscan style, forgot to mention travertine everywhere! God that shit sucks! Glad that fad is gone...
bana0401
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9/25/2019 7:24am
bana0401 wrote:
How did you do those Barn Doors, is it two kits butted up against each other? I think the opening is 54" x 96" for the...
How did you do those Barn Doors, is it two kits butted up against each other? I think the opening is 54" x 96" for the one I am doing.




Dirtydeeds wrote:
This is a 75” opening. Doors are 3’3”. The hardware kit is 13’. The track came in 2 pieces with a plate and screws to join...
This is a 75” opening. Doors are 3’3”. The hardware kit is 13’. The track came in 2 pieces with a plate and screws to join them in the center. The longest I’ve done without a splice is 10’!
do you nail the rail kit right to the studs?
Dirtydeeds
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9/25/2019 7:40am
I had this house all opened up. I put 4x6 blocking between the studs on both sides. The tracks come pre-drilled for lags. The layout on the track never seems to line up with the studs. If you don’t have the luxury of an open wall to block between studs then you have to run a ledger board across catching the studs then mount the track to the ledger. Always cleaner when you don’t use a ledger. I’ve had a few people pay the extra to open up the walls, block it out, patch/texture/paint just to avoid the ledger look.
Dirtydeeds
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9/25/2019 7:45am
Heres a couple more I’ve built. Come to think of it, I’ve only done one with a ledger!









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bana0401
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9/25/2019 8:18am
looks a lot cleaner without the ledger board
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borg
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9/25/2019 9:01am
The barn doors look great. I would consider using them to hide an entertainment alcove or something similar but not as an actual bedroom or bathroom door. They are a stylish alternative unless you live in a small house and like to shut out noise from the other rooms. Or in the case of a bathroom, to keep the noise in.
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early
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9/25/2019 9:11am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2019 9:14am
borg wrote:
The barn doors look great. I would consider using them to hide an entertainment alcove or something similar but not as an actual bedroom or bathroom...
The barn doors look great. I would consider using them to hide an entertainment alcove or something similar but not as an actual bedroom or bathroom door. They are a stylish alternative unless you live in a small house and like to shut out noise from the other rooms. Or in the case of a bathroom, to keep the noise in.
Exactly. That bathroom with 2 next to each other looks ridiculous (finish is fantastic but choice is questionable). I don't want to shit with just a barn door hanging outside the door jam between me and my wife Grinning
Dirtydeeds
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9/25/2019 9:21am
borg wrote:
The barn doors look great. I would consider using them to hide an entertainment alcove or something similar but not as an actual bedroom or bathroom...
The barn doors look great. I would consider using them to hide an entertainment alcove or something similar but not as an actual bedroom or bathroom door. They are a stylish alternative unless you live in a small house and like to shut out noise from the other rooms. Or in the case of a bathroom, to keep the noise in.
early wrote:
Exactly. That bathroom with 2 next to each other looks ridiculous (finish is fantastic but choice is questionable). I don't want to shit with just a...
Exactly. That bathroom with 2 next to each other looks ridiculous (finish is fantastic but choice is questionable). I don't want to shit with just a barn door hanging outside the door jam between me and my wife Grinning
The shitters actually around the corner with a regular door. The second door is the closet

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