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Nearly every religion is based on an abundance of "proof". At least most religions recognize that they ultimately have to have faith in their "proof". This is why I would say you are the most religious person here. Do you not see how much faith you place in your "good evidence" and "proof"?
Now I do think that you are very logical most of the time, and I actually agree with you on many of your viewpoints. But at the end of the day nobody can "prove" anything and if you are truly open minded there is "good evidence" for almost anything anybody wants to present. Now that certainly does not mean that anything can be true for anybody as some people now believe, but what this is beginning to highlight is each person's need for faith in order to come to any conclusion.
As Science has continued to rapidly "progress" the Age of Reason has come to an end. Thus, enter “The Post Modern World,”. These ideas largely began in the late 1800s and early 1900s with the Industrial Revolution. There was an explosion of inventions and an explosion of solutions to questions. However, as multiple solutions for the same questions were being brought forth and multiple answers( which were diametrically opposing) for the same question could be reasoned out, the implications were clear. Perhaps we don't know everything. Perhaps some of the previous conclusions we came to are in fact wrong, but how can we know which answer is now correct for a particular question? Rather than face the reality that our sought knowledge does not stand on a firm foundation, the world has now come to the conclusion that not only do we know everything thru reason, but all of our reasoning is also relative. “Truth” is even now relative, which just highlights how bad the world's thinking has become. With the invention of radio, the TV and most recently the internet these ideas have began to really spread throughout society. Not only is “truth” now perceived as relative, but even things such as “gender” have become relative, and even more recent reality itself is now becoming relative to many.
One presumes there's at least one good child in each.
The Shop
I'm as much as a 'science' guy as you. I don't fall prey to what I "want" to believe. Yes, there are many of those,but probably just as many 'hard core debunkers' as there are 'hard core believers' that won't listen to the other sides arguments .
So being the science guy that you are,and only agree with real scientists point of view, I'm sure you know of Stanton Friedman. This man is a "scientist" by the strictest of definitions. Nuclear Physicist ,worked at Westinghouse,AeroJet, McDonnell Douglas and more,where he worked on advanced, classified programs on nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and compact nuclear power plants for space applications.He's been affiliated with the American Nuclear Society, the American Physical Society, the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, and AFTRA. Also, a published author of approx 20 books. Point of all this is that I think we all can agree that this guy would be considered a full blown scientist. But even he ,as a "real" scientist can admit that science is NOT INFALLIBLE.If you haven't read his 2010 book,pick it up and take a few hours. Interesting stuff. Yes, he was one of the guys I had an in-depth discussion with during a 3 hour dinner a couple years back,and although hes not as young and pretty like Neil DeGrasse Tyson,lol, he's certainly a credible source of science-backed logic.
All anyone needs to know is this.
We are born.
We die.
Everything between those 2 events is up for us to decide.
Live long and prosper you bunch of jackals!
Further why do you hold physical evidence up so high? I am not saying that you should't just trying to highlight your worldview.
Additionally I am not suggesting Alien intervention nor do i think Oldpro is, but for some reason you keep going back to that. In fact i would bet that you would sooner accept evidence for Alien's as proof than I would. As you have said, that you are very open to the idea. Where as even if I had "good physical evidence" and had experienced an eyewitness encounter with alien's i would likely still presume it to be just a Great Deception.
Also, there are many,many trace evidence cases that I could list that are unexplained by modern science. I understand being "unexplained" doesn't necessarily make it extraterrestrial, but they certainly raise a ton of questions .
A community which has continued to be wrong all throughout history, and is constantly having to rewrite their interpretation of evidence to come to a "truth conclusion". Now don't get me wrong I am all for Science, but as Oldpro pointed out it is NOT INFALLIBLE, and I would say that when we try to apply reason Science has never even proven itself, if anything it has shown that with enough time and evidence it is seemingly always wrong. Yet this is where you have decided to draw your line in the sand.
http://www.businessinsider.com/pentagon-ufo-alien-research-program-foot…
Pit Row
No thanks I am not interested in a community that can be swayed any which way simply by providing "more evidence". I will stand on Truth's which I hold self evident and never changing.
Seth Shostak----hmmm where do I start. Short version-- smart dude, fairly likable,good media presence ,but bottom line, even ,if he "thinks" or "knows" that ET's have visited,then there would be no reason for SETI and he'd be out of his cushy job. So of course he's all about his gig, and tows the line as any of us would probably do.
There are quite a few trace evidence cases that I can post,but I'm sure you know of them as well.
Many odd-ball scientists over the years that have proven to be correct,(as you pointed out ,there were more than a few) weren't always proven correct during their lifetime,nor did they themselves provide all the evidence to do so.
The fact you spent so many years in the Air Force, what's your feelings on all the AF/Navy/NASA pilots that claim to have seen what they feel are crafts not of this earth? Yes ,eyewitness accounts are sketchy at best, but these are trained observers and should be a few notches above John Q Public on the credibility scale. Plus there are SO many of them.
Our winter in Arizona lasted about five days--BRUTAL!
Had to go back out it was 76 degrees beautiful weather.
You can't even see the bottom of this hill as it turns and gets real steep. E-ticket Ride!
Anyway while we're out exploring the awesome Sonoran Desert and checking out some bunkers that people actually lived in. The amazing part about it is this is really out in the middle of BFE on a hill that is very hard to get to.
These pioneers somehow brought material to build this crude hideout
And well it's pale and a drop in a huge bucket compared to the Great Pyramid it's mass and Precision, it really makes you appreciate what they went through.
And that was only 80 years ago, not 4000 years!
Not sure if anybody in this thread has been to the Great Pyramids.
I know I have not, but the closest thing I could compare it to is Chitzen Itza which the Mayans built and I climbed up that and while it also was crude, it was pretty incredible.
And that too pales in comparison to the Great Pyramid. So where am I going and all this?
Well seeing how this is a Motocross forum you know how when you watch Glen Helen and you see the huge uphills and downhills on TV?
Until you have seen it in person you truly cannot appreciate the steepness and how gnarly and dangerous it really is!
I can only imagine the Great Pyramid would be the same effect ×1000 by seeing it in person. I would think it would be the most amazing thing you had ever seen!
And to think it's no big deal ( just a pile of rocks) and could be built with such precision in primitive time 4000 years ago with no assistance from what or who is naive in my opinion.
And that is my opinion and I will stick to it.
Carry on.....
https://goo.gl/maps/pTdo4KsLCT52
I'm not fortunate enough to work from home void, and be able to spend hours on the web researching stuff.
Maybe on the weekend but this is prime time for riding-- Dirt or Street so I'll check it out when I can.
Remarkable!
Yep this is the perception that most of the general public has about these structures. While most people think they are pretty cool they still just think it is a big pile of rocks. When you begin to study these things it becomes quite evident that there is much more to it than that. I also find it odd that we never study these things with any kind of detail in school. It is almost as if the academic world has a "don't look over there" attitude about them, perhaps because they are difficult to explain when buying into the accepted models of evolution, advancement, ect?
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