Physics with Falcon (and others)

lestat
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3/4/2022 1:59pm
Robgvx wrote:
Incidentally, the ‘bending a rod in a vice’ thing reminds me of another story I was told about why conventional forks are inherently better than upside...
Incidentally, the ‘bending a rod in a vice’ thing reminds me of another story I was told about why conventional forks are inherently better than upside down forks.

I was told this by Marzocchi, so who knows if it’s true, but it makes sense to me.

So when forks hit a bump, or land from a jump the forks try to bend/flex forward or backwards for due to the forces. (Everything flexes, even if only by a very small amount). They will flex the most at the weakest point/point of most leverage.

Conventional forks will flex where the chrome tube exits the lower triple clamp: that’s the point of greatest leverage. The lower part, where the outer tube is sliding over the chrome stanchion remains straighter.

With USD forks it’s different. The flex point is where the smaller chrome tube enters the outer tube. So the bent chrome tube is trying to go through the tight bushes in the outer tube. As a result it binds, whereas the conventional fork has a far smoother action because the maximum bend point is not at the point where the two tubes are sliding.

Not sure whether I explained that well enough. But as I said, it makes sense to me. I’m sure modern, larger diameter USD tubes may have mitigated that problem somewhat but it’s hard to argue against the logic.

To this day, the best forks I ever rode with were Marzocchi conventionals…
Makes perfect sense .
flarider
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3/5/2022 4:50am
We ever figure out seat bouncing?

LOL
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Falcon
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3/6/2022 12:36pm
flarider wrote:
We ever figure out seat bouncing?

LOL
Yes, no need to bring it up. 😎😆😆
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flarider
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3/6/2022 1:01pm
and the airplane on a treadmill?
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The Shop

Falcon
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3/6/2022 2:42pm
Airplane on a treadmill is simple: it needs airflow over the wings to acheive flight. Without airflow, it's just a funny-looking car.
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flarider
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3/6/2022 2:43pm
Speed of a bullet up vs down?
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SEEMEFIRST
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3/6/2022 4:40pm
Falcon wrote:
Airplane on a treadmill is simple: it needs airflow over the wings to acheive flight. Without airflow, it's just a funny-looking car.
The only thing the wheels do is decrease friction on take off.
The treadmill has no effect.
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Yeti831
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3/6/2022 6:45pm
Not sure if it’s physics related, but why is it whenever I stub my toe or smash my knee into something it’s ALWAYS my left pinky toe or left knee?

Same when I bash my elbow, always my left elbow.

Maybe this belongs in the conspiracy thread 😂
Heggo
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3/6/2022 8:23pm
Falcon wrote:
Airplane on a treadmill is simple: it needs airflow over the wings to acheive flight. Without airflow, it's just a funny-looking car.
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
The only thing the wheels do is decrease friction on take off.
The treadmill has no effect.
Oh. I thought they were only there to preserve underside paint
Tank_Slapper
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3/6/2022 8:27pm
An airplane on a treadmill will take off

Really simple if you have a hi IQ
flarider
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3/7/2022 3:03am
Yeti831 wrote:
Not sure if it’s physics related, but why is it whenever I stub my toe or smash my knee into something it’s ALWAYS my left pinky...
Not sure if it’s physics related, but why is it whenever I stub my toe or smash my knee into something it’s ALWAYS my left pinky toe or left knee?

Same when I bash my elbow, always my left elbow.

Maybe this belongs in the conspiracy thread 😂
Try walking backwards?
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Falcon
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3/7/2022 11:28am
An airplane on a treadmill will take off

Really simple if you have a hi IQ
Empirical evidence?

The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The airspeed of the aircraft must acheive its minimum to create enough lift to go airborne. That means one of two things: Airplane going through the atmosphere, or wind generated by a huge fan. (Or if the treadmill creates enough wind itself.)

So, if the treadmill were lashed to the top of a really big car going fast enough for the plane to go airborne, hell yeah. Laughing
Falcon
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3/7/2022 11:30am
flarider wrote:
Speed of a bullet up vs down?
Now you're just stirring the pot. Laughing

Yeah, I was wrong about the bullet, apparently. They don't come down as fast as they went up.
Joey_Bridges
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3/7/2022 11:44am
GF's an astro physicist at the Y-12 lab in oakridge.
She says....

early
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3/7/2022 11:52am
Falcon wrote:
Empirical evidence? The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The [i]airspeed[/i] of the aircraft must...
Empirical evidence?

The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The airspeed of the aircraft must acheive its minimum to create enough lift to go airborne. That means one of two things: Airplane going through the atmosphere, or wind generated by a huge fan. (Or if the treadmill creates enough wind itself.)

So, if the treadmill were lashed to the top of a really big car going fast enough for the plane to go airborne, hell yeah. Laughing
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff. The treadmill would need to be as long as the runway to get the plane up to lift speed though.
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flarider
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3/7/2022 12:01pm
flarider wrote:
Speed of a bullet up vs down?
Falcon wrote:
Now you're just stirring the pot. Laughing

Yeah, I was wrong about the bullet, apparently. They don't come down as fast as they went up.
No idea, was just thinking up the usual ones that throw people...LOL
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3/7/2022 12:09pm
Falcon wrote:
Empirical evidence? The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The [i]airspeed[/i] of the aircraft must...
Empirical evidence?

The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The airspeed of the aircraft must acheive its minimum to create enough lift to go airborne. That means one of two things: Airplane going through the atmosphere, or wind generated by a huge fan. (Or if the treadmill creates enough wind itself.)

So, if the treadmill were lashed to the top of a really big car going fast enough for the plane to go airborne, hell yeah. Laughing
early wrote:
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff...
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff. The treadmill would need to be as long as the runway to get the plane up to lift speed though.
I'm so confused. Does someone out there think aerodynamics depends on wheel speed or is this an inside joke I'm not in on?
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flarider
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3/7/2022 12:15pm
Treadmill don't mean shit
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Tank_Slapper
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3/7/2022 12:25pm
Falcon wrote:
Empirical evidence? The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The [i]airspeed[/i] of the aircraft must...
Empirical evidence?

The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The airspeed of the aircraft must acheive its minimum to create enough lift to go airborne. That means one of two things: Airplane going through the atmosphere, or wind generated by a huge fan. (Or if the treadmill creates enough wind itself.)

So, if the treadmill were lashed to the top of a really big car going fast enough for the plane to go airborne, hell yeah. Laughing
early wrote:
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff...
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff. The treadmill would need to be as long as the runway to get the plane up to lift speed though.
100% correct, it's really simple, amazing how many people get it wrong
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Muttly
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3/7/2022 12:29pm
If it weren’t for physics and law enforcement, I’d be unstoppable.
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Falcon
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3/7/2022 3:33pm
Falcon wrote:
Empirical evidence? The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The [i]airspeed[/i] of the aircraft must...
Empirical evidence?

The only way it could happen is if there's a Bernoulli effect over the wings to create lift. The airspeed of the aircraft must acheive its minimum to create enough lift to go airborne. That means one of two things: Airplane going through the atmosphere, or wind generated by a huge fan. (Or if the treadmill creates enough wind itself.)

So, if the treadmill were lashed to the top of a really big car going fast enough for the plane to go airborne, hell yeah. Laughing
early wrote:
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff...
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff. The treadmill would need to be as long as the runway to get the plane up to lift speed though.
100% correct, it's really simple, amazing how many people get it wrong
OK, so you guys are really saying the same thing I am; I was just envisioning the treadmill coming on, and spinning up to some speed underneath the (stationary) aircraft. If the propeller(s) or jet engine is not operating, there would be no flight.

However, if the aircraft engines are on, the treadmill could be running at any speed and the plane could still fly by thrusting up to a sufficient speed. Since the prop or jet acts on the atmosphere, the plane would fly. The wheels would be spinning at treadmill speed + airspeed, though.
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SEEMEFIRST
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3/7/2022 7:34pm
early wrote:
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff...
Falcon, because the forward thrust of the airplane is created by the jets/propeller, the wheels of the airplane have no effect on forward speed for takeoff. The treadmill would need to be as long as the runway to get the plane up to lift speed though.
100% correct, it's really simple, amazing how many people get it wrong
Falcon wrote:
OK, so you guys are really saying the same thing I am; I was just envisioning the treadmill coming on, and spinning up to some speed...
OK, so you guys are really saying the same thing I am; I was just envisioning the treadmill coming on, and spinning up to some speed underneath the (stationary) aircraft. If the propeller(s) or jet engine is not operating, there would be no flight.

However, if the aircraft engines are on, the treadmill could be running at any speed and the plane could still fly by thrusting up to a sufficient speed. Since the prop or jet acts on the atmosphere, the plane would fly. The wheels would be spinning at treadmill speed + airspeed, though.
Same thing happens every time you fly, if the props ain't turning, you ain't going.
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Tank_Slapper
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3/7/2022 8:24pm
Some of you aren't as smart as you think you are (Bernoulli effect)

But you good Tongue , omg is that right, I'm confused. Shocked
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Falcon
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3/9/2022 8:49am
^The Bernoulli Effect, as I understand it, is the result of air flowing over a curved wing. Since the air flowing across the top surface (curved,) travels farther to reach the rear edge of the wing, it distributes the same number of molecules over a greater distance, causing a drop in pressure on the top side. The pressure differential from the top (curved) to the bottom (flat) side of the wing creates lift. Am I wrong? I certainly could be, and I'm sure it's more complicated than that.
TheGetFresh
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3/21/2022 10:05pm
Here’s one: how does a bicycle (or motorcycle) balance?

Some people think it’s the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, but bicycles built with gyro free wheels stay upright. Others attribute the balance to wheel caster, but bicycles without caster or even negative caster will stay upright on their own.

So what do you think make a two wheeled vehicle balance?
sumdood
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3/21/2022 10:47pm
Yeti831 wrote:
Not sure if it’s physics related, but why is it whenever I stub my toe or smash my knee into something it’s ALWAYS my left pinky...
Not sure if it’s physics related, but why is it whenever I stub my toe or smash my knee into something it’s ALWAYS my left pinky toe or left knee?

Same when I bash my elbow, always my left elbow.

Maybe this belongs in the conspiracy thread 😂
I'm not exactly sure but I bet some how it has something to do with the brakes being on the right side, some kind of an auto pilot reaction that causes your right side to tuck in more than your left when approaching things you should really not run into
Falcon
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3/22/2022 8:46am
Here’s one: how does a bicycle (or motorcycle) balance? Some people think it’s the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, but bicycles built with gyro free wheels...
Here’s one: how does a bicycle (or motorcycle) balance?

Some people think it’s the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, but bicycles built with gyro free wheels stay upright. Others attribute the balance to wheel caster, but bicycles without caster or even negative caster will stay upright on their own.

So what do you think make a two wheeled vehicle balance?
How do they make a gyro-free wheel?? Blink

Anything with mass which revolves in a circle has angular momentum and thus gyroscopic force.
lestat
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3/22/2022 10:15am
Equal mass on the wheel , rotating in opposite direction ?
Falcon
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3/22/2022 1:35pm
^Still creates angular momentum. Doubles it, in fact. The angular momentum would have to be mitigated by wheels spinning in the 2 other planes. (From the rider's perspective, one would be arranged like a dinner plate and one would be like a steering wheel.)
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