PG&E declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy today

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1/29/2019 8:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/29/2019 8:34 PM

Ten million California gas and electric customers now on the hook- big contractors not paid, wildfire victims, utility pensioners likely taking a hit.
A bad situation in general. All because of wildfires- costing not just PG&E but the other utilities billions of dollars. The way California insurance law works, they are liable even if not negligent. The big players with billions or hundreds of millions into the company will be the first to go for the chum:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/business/energy-environment/pge-file-bankruptcy.html

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1/29/2019 9:37 PM

I don’t understand how the fires were not preventable. What type of failures are they having that are causing these fires? Isn’t it just a case of increasing the distance to combustible’s? I guess there is more to it that I don’t understand.

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1/29/2019 10:27 PM

Go to Google Maps and type in Paradise CA. Then turn on the Satellite camera view. Google has the after fire satellite photos of the town now. It's pretty amazing. And you can see that whole community was built within a pine forest.

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“Adhering to 1970’s Standards of Political Correctness”

1/29/2019 10:33 PM

jgmxdad251 wrote:

I don’t understand how the fires were not preventable. What type of failures are they having that are causing these fires? Isn’t it just a case of increasing the distance to combustible’s? I guess there is more to it that I don’t understand.

It's pretty simple- you have several hundred thousand miles of high-voltage and local power lines crossing drought territory. Humongous fires are caused by one broken component that drops a line into a bone-dry patch of land.
Poor forestry management plays a huge role. And like I said, the California courts' interpretation of utility liability is the difference. The bad deal is that wildfire victim suits will now be tossed into bankruptcy court like any other stakeholders. Big hedge funds etc, have a knack for collecting their due...

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1/30/2019 7:52 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/30/2019 7:54 AM

aren’t forest fires nature’s reset button? Do they not occur where there are no humans ?

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GP740
Since 1987

1/30/2019 8:51 AM

GeorgiePorgie wrote:

aren’t forest fires nature’s reset button? Do they not occur where there are no humans ?

Even Native Americans managed their forest with controlled burns. Forest management is part of the story, and it's changing quickly. What made Paradise so bad was the wind- it can consume an acre a second. The evacuation plans were sketchy too, but this fire was spotted 15 min. after it began.
One huge fire (the Carr fire) was caused by a broken down vehicle. California is so dry at certain times of year, it's a big tinderbox.

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1/30/2019 8:52 AM

I have a friend who bought a house near Lake Arrowhead CA. He bought it knowing that the property next door was burned to the ground in a wildfire.
What else needs to be said?

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1/30/2019 2:01 PM

jgmxdad251 wrote:

I don’t understand how the fires were not preventable. What type of failures are they having that are causing these fires? Isn’t it just a case of increasing the distance to combustible’s? I guess there is more to it that I don’t understand.

I worked for PG&E for 26 years. The last 10 of which were in the transmission control center in downtown San Francisco controlling the electrical grid from Oregon to Bakersfield. Many times problems occurred not by equipment failure but by bird or animal contact with conductors especially in rural areas.

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1/30/2019 3:54 PM

jgmxdad251 wrote:

I don’t understand how the fires were not preventable. What type of failures are they having that are causing these fires? Isn’t it just a case of increasing the distance to combustible’s? I guess there is more to it that I don’t understand.

BMSOBx2 wrote:

I worked for PG&E for 26 years. The last 10 of which were in the transmission control center in downtown San Francisco controlling the electrical grid from Oregon to Bakersfield. Many times problems occurred not by equipment failure but by bird or animal contact with conductors especially in rural areas.

Just like in supercross, we need nets around the lines to catch these wild projectile missle animals. Vigilante’s at heart.... Forreal though, Cali needs better forest management like everyone else says. That would’ve probably helped save some lives

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1/30/2019 4:06 PM

Where I happen to live which is a newer development area all transmission lines are underground. We rarely have any power outages. And no ugly electrical poles. Not possible everyone obviously. But more and more the stuff is being put underground.

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1/30/2019 4:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/30/2019 4:31 PM

TXDirt wrote:

Where I happen to live which is a newer development area all transmission lines are underground. We rarely have any power outages. And no ugly electrical poles. Not possible everyone obviously. But more and more the stuff is being put underground.

For sure underground utilities would be a solution. Retrofitting neighborhoods to underground utilities is a hugely expensive proposition not to mention having to tear up streets yards etc etc.

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1/30/2019 9:47 PM

You're a tool.

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1/31/2019 4:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/31/2019 4:27 AM

borg wrote:

I have a friend who bought a house near Lake Arrowhead CA. He bought it knowing that the property next door was burned to the ground in a wildfire.
What else needs to be said?

Isn't there a saying though about lightning not hitting the same spot twice? We will close on a house in the town right next to Arrowhead. I understand that they have cold winters up there. But you can't beat the prices on homes in that area. You can't get a trailer in southern California for the home prices in the mountains. Of course we splurged a little bit though.

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Instagram: vanillaice782
Amateur helmet painter

1/31/2019 4:32 AM

So what did he say that was inaccurate? Even your idiotic former governor admitted the forest management was at fault to some degree.

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1/31/2019 5:54 AM

Depends what your definition of forest management is. Logging doesn't do much to decrease the spread of wildfires as underbrush increases when you cut out the canopy. The new growth with their shallow root structure doesn't do well in droughts. Really there should be a fire break established on the border of publicly owned forest land that us likely to see fires, that's an expensive and unlikely proposition. More controlled burns are the only way to clear out the underbrush that can be so flammable.

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1/31/2019 6:37 AM

A tool of epic proportions.

But I'm right.

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"We don't rent pigs."

1/31/2019 6:40 AM

Careful there fella. Youre gonna get the tool label with that kind of truth & logic.

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"We don't rent pigs."

1/31/2019 7:14 AM

Doesn't help that the forest service and specifically the wildland firefighting branch is treated like an after thought by the department of the interior.

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1/31/2019 8:28 AM

Typical response from you. Why not just post up a response that proves him wrong? After working for them for all those years, should be an easy task for you.

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1/31/2019 8:49 AM

How about the fact that over 60% of the land burned was federal land. Libertards had nothing to do with how the federal government refuses to manage its lands appropriately. Someone else said the Interior Department and the forest service are treated like an afterthought and are poorly funded. That's not California's problem that's the federal government's problem. The current Administration seems to think that all you have to do is open it up for logging and the problem will be solved. I fail to see how a simple minded right-wing rant about California and tree huggers has anything to do with the issue. Might as well blame all of those homeowners who lost their houses for building and buying in the middle of a forest. Are they to blame? Are they all tree-huggers? Get real. Then we'll have a discussion.

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1/31/2019 9:03 AM

Proper forest management, which can include logging, prescribed burns, fire breaks and public education can only go so far. An evergreen forest in a severe drought is a tinder box just waiting to go up.

Not sure what species of evergreens are prevalent in that area but some actually need fire to let the cones open and drop their seeds.

Nature will come back with vigor but unfortunately the people will not.

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We are the sum of a 1,000 lives. What we know is almost nothing at all.

1/31/2019 9:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/31/2019 9:51 AM

And what exactly is it that you base your conclusion on? Any facts? Or is it just your right-wing bias? I love it when ignorant people claim to know all the answers then resort to name calling to prove their point. Rave on.

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1/31/2019 9:33 AM

Mossy wrote:

Just like in supercross, we need nets around the lines to catch these wild projectile missle animals. Vigilante’s at heart.... Forreal though, Cali needs better forest management like everyone else says. That would’ve probably helped save some lives

That makes you wonder about the fact that if Edison didn't get his way we wouldn't have electric lines everywhere, the Tesla coil brought electricity to everyone without the need of lines.

Then again, how does the Tesla coil work in snow, rain storms? Dammitwhistling

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1/31/2019 9:36 AM

TXDirt wrote:

Where I happen to live which is a newer development area all transmission lines are underground. We rarely have any power outages. And no ugly electrical poles. Not possible everyone obviously. But more and more the stuff is being put underground.

BMSOBx2 wrote:

For sure underground utilities would be a solution. Retrofitting neighborhoods to underground utilities is a hugely expensive proposition not to mention having to tear up streets yards etc etc.

Tesla! Where are you Buddy!?!dizzy

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1/31/2019 9:54 AM

BMSOBx2 wrote:

I worked for PG&E for 26 years. The last 10 of which were in the transmission control center in downtown San Francisco controlling the electrical grid from Oregon to Bakersfield. Many times problems occurred not by equipment failure but by bird or animal contact with conductors especially in rural areas.

Mossy wrote:

Just like in supercross, we need nets around the lines to catch these wild projectile missle animals. Vigilante’s at heart.... Forreal though, Cali needs better forest management like everyone else says. That would’ve probably helped save some lives

Jimmy638 wrote:

That makes you wonder about the fact that if Edison didn't get his way we wouldn't have electric lines everywhere, the Tesla coil brought electricity to everyone without the need of lines.

Then again, how does the Tesla coil work in snow, rain storms? Dammitwhistling

Actually Edison didn't get his way. He was on the wrong end of the AC versus DC argument. wink

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1/31/2019 10:06 AM

BMSOBx2 wrote:

Actually Edison didn't get his way. He was on the wrong end of the AC versus DC argument. wink

Pretty interesting that in your home today just about everything except your HVAC, stove and water heater run on DC current.

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1/31/2019 10:51 AM

Resort to name calling? I didnt cite you nor call you anything - I was speaking about groups/organizations who have a long history of fighting practical forestry practices. (tree spiking anyone??) You on the other hand took it personal and singled me out. I guess Im kinda deplorable like that, you throw a jab, Im gonna return in kind.

The main fact I can cite is the devasting fire happened, and its no secret why. The conditions that allowed that type of scenario does not happen naturally, its a man-made situation. Nature tends to things and doesnt do that. I know of no conservative person who is against prescribed burning, rotational harvesting of old growth, fire roads/breaks, all of that. There are plenty of private companies that own/lease, cultivate and harvest timber without that kind of unstoppable inferno happening. All because they use logical practices that lend themselves to safety and not letting that kind of tragedy happen. Of course, they are private companies that have this silly notion like a profit motive, and they arent hamstringed by left-wing kook organizations and legislation.

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"We don't rent pigs."

1/31/2019 11:30 AM

In a weird twist, the Smokey the bear campaign worked so well it made people think that all forest fires are bad. That's why the slogan has changed over the years.

One thing to keep in mind is, you can't always do prescribed burns where and when necessary. There are sooooo many factors that are taken into account when making those decisions. I don't know if they just couldn't do burns or weren't allowed. But you're right, letting leaf litter and dry tinder build up for years or even decades is a recipe for these super fires. I've seen a forest fire first hand and it is one of the scariest things ever.

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We are the sum of a 1,000 lives. What we know is almost nothing at all.

1/31/2019 11:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/31/2019 11:47 AM

I did call you and ignorant tool... Something you confirm with every post you make. If this is man-made how do you explain the devastating fire in Yellowstone fire of 1988? Over 700,000 Acres burned. How do you explain the Forest fires caused by lightning strikes which happen all the time? Man-made? I think not. It's very possible that the campfire was caused by an electric device malfunction but to broadly blame left-wing Kooks, Tree Huggers, libertards & legislation for the problem or the severity of it is reaching a bit. There is no legislation that keeps the Federal government from maintaining their lands responsibly. Best to stick to what you know Beavis.

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1/31/2019 11:51 AM

BMSOBx2 wrote:

I did call you and ignorant tool... Something you confirm with every post you make. If this is man-made how do you explain the devastating fire in Yellowstone fire of 1988? Over 700,000 Acres burned. How do you explain the Forest fires caused by lightning strikes which happen all the time? Man-made? I think not. It's very possible that the campfire was caused by an electric device malfunction but to broadly blame left-wing Kooks, Tree Huggers, libertards & legislation for the problem or the severity of it is reaching a bit. There is no legislation that keeps the Federal government from maintaining their lands responsibly. Best to stick to what you know Beavis.

You still arent getting it. The ignition source isnt the point. *sigh* I digress. Whats that saying about teaching a pig to sing?

Carry on sir. You might wanna put some salve on that case of butt-hurt. kissing



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"We don't rent pigs."