One step closer to 1984

72kiteboarder
Profile picture for user 72kiteboarder
Posts
4647
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
90 MILES SOUTH-ISH, FL US
72kiteboarder
Edited Date/Time 1/9/2012 12:04am
WASHINGTON -- The Homeland Security Department will use unmanned surveillance aircraft and other technological upgrades in its ongoing effort to protect the southern border of the United States.

The department said Wednesday it has obtained Federal Aviation Administration permission to operate unmanned planes along the Texas border and throughout the Gulf Coast region. Customs and Border Protection will base a surveillance drone at the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station in Texas.

Homeland Security also said it is working with the Office of National Drug Control Policy on "Project Roadrunner," a license plate recognition system designed to seek out possible drug traffickers.

And the department is collaborating with the Justice Department to improve information sharing between state, local and federal law enforcement agencies.

In a speech at the Center for International and Strategic Studies, a Washington think tank, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano also announced a new partnership with the Major Cities Chiefs Association. The agreement would allow non-border cities to provide more assistance to state and local law enforcement agencies that are on the border.


Once they are in the air, it will be relatively easy to turn the cameras on anyone. This is only the beginning.
|
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25499
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 6/24/2010 8:28pm
6/24/2010 8:28pm
So you don't want to stop the illegal immigration, using everything at our disposal?
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 6/24/2010 8:45pm
6/24/2010 8:45pm
flarider wrote:
So you don't want to stop the illegal immigration, using everything at our disposal?
If I may raise my hand about this, I must say that I don't want to use drones for illegal immigrant purposes. They are to dammed expensive, and it's not like they're going to shoot missals to stop those who are crossing the boarder. Spend the money on more man power and conventional type aircraft will do the job just fine.

Follow the mighty dollar and you will find out who came up with this grand new plan.
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25499
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 6/24/2010 8:52pm
6/24/2010 8:52pm
Aren't drones lighter and less expensive to operate per mission, than a small manned aircraft?
Seems the fuel costs alone would be much less
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 6/24/2010 8:56pm
6/24/2010 8:56pm
flarider wrote:
Aren't drones lighter and less expensive to operate per mission, than a small manned aircraft?
Seems the fuel costs alone would be much less
It's the base cost that I disagree with.

And in all honestly, what good is it going to do to locate the illegals if you don't have the man power to confront and stop them?

The Shop

See All »
PD441
Profile picture for user PD441
Posts
1280
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ US
PD441 6/24/2010 9:01pm
6/24/2010 9:01pm
I definitely agree about needing the boots on the ground to address what the drones find. FYI - Fort Huachuca in Sierra Vista, AZ has been a long-time base for those drones and is about 12 miles from the border.
MX479Guy
Profile picture for user MX479Guy
Posts
2577
Joined
4/5/2009
Location
Atlantic Beach, FL US
MX479Guy 6/24/2010 9:05pm
6/24/2010 9:05pm
flarider wrote:
Aren't drones lighter and less expensive to operate per mission, than a small manned aircraft?
Seems the fuel costs alone would be much less
Somebody still has to operate the drones too.

But overall the cost of drones is probably cheaper, yes.
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
11664
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
plowboy 6/24/2010 9:07pm
6/24/2010 9:07pm
Jim...I believe General Atomics has a solar/battery powered UAV that can stay aloft for an unbelievable amount of time. If "surveillance" is the only objective they could be very cost effective. But since this involves the govt....it's probably just another scam to get a program funded and then divert the money somewhere else. (The recon UAV's are just big RC airplanes with fancy cameras).
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 6/24/2010 9:13pm
6/24/2010 9:13pm
flarider wrote:
Aren't drones lighter and less expensive to operate per mission, than a small manned aircraft?
Seems the fuel costs alone would be much less
MX479Guy wrote:
Somebody still has to operate the drones too.

But overall the cost of drones is probably cheaper, yes.
Just a question, and a question that I don't believe that any of us can answer, so we have to use some logic and common sense.

What does't it cost to maintain the drone itself, along with the software?
Remember, this is a piece of equipment that was manufactured by a defense contractor.
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 6/24/2010 9:15pm
6/24/2010 9:15pm
plowboy wrote:
Jim...I believe General Atomics has a solar/battery powered UAV that can stay aloft for an unbelievable amount of time. If "surveillance" is the only objective they...
Jim...I believe General Atomics has a solar/battery powered UAV that can stay aloft for an unbelievable amount of time. If "surveillance" is the only objective they could be very cost effective. But since this involves the govt....it's probably just another scam to get a program funded and then divert the money somewhere else. (The recon UAV's are just big RC airplanes with fancy cameras).
.I believe General Atomics has a solar/battery powered UAV that can stay aloft for an unbelievable amount of time. If "surveillance" is the only objective they could be very cost effective. But since this involves the govt....it's probably just another scam to get a program funded and then divert the money somewhere else. (The recon UAV's are just big RC airplanes with fancy cameras)

Point well taken plowboy.
PD441
Profile picture for user PD441
Posts
1280
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ US
PD441 6/24/2010 9:19pm
6/24/2010 9:19pm
flarider wrote:
Aren't drones lighter and less expensive to operate per mission, than a small manned aircraft?
Seems the fuel costs alone would be much less
MX479Guy wrote:
Somebody still has to operate the drones too.

But overall the cost of drones is probably cheaper, yes.
jmar wrote:
Just a question, and a question that I don't believe that any of us can answer, so we have to use some logic and common sense...
Just a question, and a question that I don't believe that any of us can answer, so we have to use some logic and common sense.

What does't it cost to maintain the drone itself, along with the software?
Remember, this is a piece of equipment that was manufactured by a defense contractor.
What is our national security worth?
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 6/24/2010 9:26pm
6/24/2010 9:26pm
MX479Guy wrote:
Somebody still has to operate the drones too.

But overall the cost of drones is probably cheaper, yes.
jmar wrote:
Just a question, and a question that I don't believe that any of us can answer, so we have to use some logic and common sense...
Just a question, and a question that I don't believe that any of us can answer, so we have to use some logic and common sense.

What does't it cost to maintain the drone itself, along with the software?
Remember, this is a piece of equipment that was manufactured by a defense contractor.
PD441 wrote:
What is our national security worth?
It this particular situation, the drone would be nothing more than a very expensive, glorified camera system.

We need boots on the ground.
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
11664
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
plowboy 6/24/2010 9:27pm
6/24/2010 9:27pm
I wouldn't lie and say I know a dollar figure but some of these UAV's are really no more than fancy RC planes. They aren't free but they are far cheaper than any manned aircraft. I believe the one operator can control multiple planes. I have looked into employment with a few of the manufacturers and they actually wanted RC experience on the manufacturing/maintenance as well as the operational side. If you are thinking of something like the Predator UAV...well that's a whole different ball of wax. Fairly expensive procurement costs and require actual aircraft mechanics for maintenance. If they are suggesting deploying that aircraft for border surveillance...be suspicious. Like taking an aircraft carrier to go bass fishing.
PD441
Profile picture for user PD441
Posts
1280
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Tucson, AZ US
PD441 6/24/2010 9:39pm
6/24/2010 9:39pm
And with all due respect to you, oldfart, it IS a national a security issue when....

..... Pakistanis among others are found crossing the southern border, Muslim prayer rugs are found in the Sonoran desert, Americans are being warned not to set foot on 3500 acres of American soil, formerly pristine areas are strewn with trash discarded by illegal entrants on their trek. Not to mention the economic burden illegal immigrants are costing states. Etc., etc., etc........

This is ALL about national security.
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
11664
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
plowboy 6/24/2010 9:50pm
6/24/2010 9:50pm
I know the U.S. military has been stretched pretty thin for a number of years. The American people asked for and the current administration is trying to withdraw troops and cut the defense budget and use that money for domestic issues. Having said that...maybe it's time to implement a semi-permanent deployment of National Guard and Army Reserve at strategic points along the souther border. Five or six forward operating bases so to speak. Could even serve the dual use of surveillance and training for troops about to be deployed to Afgan...just a thought. I agree with others who have stated this is a national security issue. A couple of foreigners wandering across is illegal and a job for the cops. Tens of thousands is a national emergency.
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
11664
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
plowboy 6/24/2010 10:07pm
6/24/2010 10:07pm
I won't disagree fart...but which do you do first....plug the leak or bail the boat. Doesn't seem right to do nothing while we wait for congress to find or steal enough integrity to ignore the "bribes" from big business and start hammering companies that hire illegals. No work equals no reason for them to come here.
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 6/24/2010 10:22pm
6/24/2010 10:22pm
plowboy wrote:
I wouldn't lie and say I know a dollar figure but some of these UAV's are really no more than fancy RC planes. They aren't free...
I wouldn't lie and say I know a dollar figure but some of these UAV's are really no more than fancy RC planes. They aren't free but they are far cheaper than any manned aircraft. I believe the one operator can control multiple planes. I have looked into employment with a few of the manufacturers and they actually wanted RC experience on the manufacturing/maintenance as well as the operational side. If you are thinking of something like the Predator UAV...well that's a whole different ball of wax. Fairly expensive procurement costs and require actual aircraft mechanics for maintenance. If they are suggesting deploying that aircraft for border surveillance...be suspicious. Like taking an aircraft carrier to go bass fishing.
I don't know anything about these types of unmanned aircraft. If they are less expensive then I would say great. I do know that the drones we are using in Afghanistan are about three million a piece.
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
11664
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
plowboy 6/24/2010 10:28pm
6/24/2010 10:28pm
When I was a kid in East Texas I worked one summer for an old bastard who had some big peach orchards and watermelon fields. It was hot, hard, backbreaking work made all the worse by the pitiful pay...and I was only a kid of 12 or 13. He used to drive an old u-haul truck down to the border and pickup a load of illegals. Probably 15 hours in the back of that sweatbox. They lived in some old shacks he had on the place...no electric, water, or even windows. He gave em some bread and bologna and water out of the hose. I think they survived on watermelons and peaches cause they always had the shits. He treated 'em like animals and then told them to find their own way home when pickin' time was done. My point is...even with the horrible conditions and pitiful pay it was better than they could do at home. I feel bad that anyone anywhere has to live like that but as long as our system allows business people to get away with this...there will continue to be people who come here for the work (money).
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
11664
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS US
plowboy 6/24/2010 10:55pm
6/24/2010 10:55pm
Yeah Jim, some of the weaponized UAVs are hella expensive but they are very effective battlefield tools. Too bad we are fighting an enemy that values death in battle against the enemies of Islam more than they value their or their families lives. Hate to say it cause it makes me sound as crazy as them but annihilation is the only way to defeat that kind of mind set. If you got cancer it doesn't do any good to only remove half the tumor. I realise we can't do that...and that's why we can't win this war.

Post a reply to: One step closer to 1984