Oh my, working.....actually works?

newmann
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Edited Date/Time 5/5/2016 8:04pm
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IWreckALot
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4/29/2016 7:28am
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a wheelchair for the most part. He has a master's degree but for some reason, he continuously can't find a job that pays decently. He's the hardest working guy I know. He's carried at least two jobs since I've known him and he refuses to live off of the system because he believes he can provide a company value. He said he could earn $62,000 a year if he were to go on disability and accept social security. For the rest of his life. If he works, he gets $0. That's a pretty jacked up system. A guy who actually has a physical handicap, that probably needs some assistance, but can still do some work, gets nothing. But, go sit at home, drink beer and watch the sun come up and go down, you get $62k. . .
500guy
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4/29/2016 8:07am
IWreckALot wrote:
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a...
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a wheelchair for the most part. He has a master's degree but for some reason, he continuously can't find a job that pays decently. He's the hardest working guy I know. He's carried at least two jobs since I've known him and he refuses to live off of the system because he believes he can provide a company value. He said he could earn $62,000 a year if he were to go on disability and accept social security. For the rest of his life. If he works, he gets $0. That's a pretty jacked up system. A guy who actually has a physical handicap, that probably needs some assistance, but can still do some work, gets nothing. But, go sit at home, drink beer and watch the sun come up and go down, you get $62k. . .
The system is corrupt and broken.

I had a friend that served in Viet Nam and worked his whole life too, had health issues and was unable to get help until it was to late , He pretty much was at zero plus debt and died.

Really pissed me off a man like that was unable to get some help while other able bodied folks and non citizens get plenty.
kzizok
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4/29/2016 8:44am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2016 8:46am
Who would have thunk it?

What is this work thing you speak of? Is it a new concept?

The Shop

4/30/2016 2:39pm
Feed a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime... Should be implemented across the country and it's a joke it isn't
71Fish
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4/30/2016 3:58pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a...
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a wheelchair for the most part. He has a master's degree but for some reason, he continuously can't find a job that pays decently. He's the hardest working guy I know. He's carried at least two jobs since I've known him and he refuses to live off of the system because he believes he can provide a company value. He said he could earn $62,000 a year if he were to go on disability and accept social security. For the rest of his life. If he works, he gets $0. That's a pretty jacked up system. A guy who actually has a physical handicap, that probably needs some assistance, but can still do some work, gets nothing. But, go sit at home, drink beer and watch the sun come up and go down, you get $62k. . .
Something about your story doesn't add up. Do you really think an unemployed slacker who drinks beer all day/night is really going to watch the sun come up?
colintrax
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4/30/2016 4:17pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a...
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a wheelchair for the most part. He has a master's degree but for some reason, he continuously can't find a job that pays decently. He's the hardest working guy I know. He's carried at least two jobs since I've known him and he refuses to live off of the system because he believes he can provide a company value. He said he could earn $62,000 a year if he were to go on disability and accept social security. For the rest of his life. If he works, he gets $0. That's a pretty jacked up system. A guy who actually has a physical handicap, that probably needs some assistance, but can still do some work, gets nothing. But, go sit at home, drink beer and watch the sun come up and go down, you get $62k. . .
Let's be fair here. Your buddy can get 62K because he's worth that. A high school drop out who's never worked isn't getting 62K a year from anybody.
APLMAN99
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4/30/2016 6:20pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a...
I have a buddy that actually has a real physical handicap. It's cerebral palsy but it only affects his physical abilities. He's pretty much in a wheelchair for the most part. He has a master's degree but for some reason, he continuously can't find a job that pays decently. He's the hardest working guy I know. He's carried at least two jobs since I've known him and he refuses to live off of the system because he believes he can provide a company value. He said he could earn $62,000 a year if he were to go on disability and accept social security. For the rest of his life. If he works, he gets $0. That's a pretty jacked up system. A guy who actually has a physical handicap, that probably needs some assistance, but can still do some work, gets nothing. But, go sit at home, drink beer and watch the sun come up and go down, you get $62k. . .
What sort of disability is going to pay him that much? If he hasn't been getting higher paying jobs, it's unlikely that it's a private policy that would pay him that much and certainly SSI pays nowhere near that. Sounds a bit fishy to me......
APLMAN99
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4/30/2016 6:25pm
I've not followed this issue closely, but here's a dissenting view on whether or not it's "working". Personally I look at what the food stamp program really is, subsidies to ensure farmers produce food even if the market is not conducive. There are some very good reasons for having farmers able to produce large quantities of food without long waits for developing land that has more to do with national defense than feeding the poor, but that's not what most people think about.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/barbara-shelly/arti…
Rooster
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5/2/2016 9:32am
Funny how people can twist statistics to fit their own agenda.

Kansas' unemployment rate has gone down at the same rate as the national rate and if you compare them to other states who didn't institute the same work clause you'd find no causal effect from instituting those work requirements.

I don't disagree with having to work to get benefits, but lets not fall all over ourselves congratulating a program that had no measurable affect on the unemployment rate compared to surrounding states or the national average.

&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:US&idim=stateDizzy T2000000000000Dizzy T0600000000000Dizzy T5000000000000&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false">
JW381
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5/2/2016 2:07pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I've not followed this issue closely, but here's a dissenting view on whether or not it's "working". Personally I look at what the food stamp program...
I've not followed this issue closely, but here's a dissenting view on whether or not it's "working". Personally I look at what the food stamp program really is, subsidies to ensure farmers produce food even if the market is not conducive. There are some very good reasons for having farmers able to produce large quantities of food without long waits for developing land that has more to do with national defense than feeding the poor, but that's not what most people think about.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/barbara-shelly/arti…
And I whole heartedly wish food stamps were restricted to more basic foods. Foods that a) actually nourish the body and b) help support American food production that isn't Nabisco or General Mills. The fact that you can use EBT to buy a 12 pack of Mtn Dew, which is cheaper than bottled water, makes me feel as if the corporate interest has dipped it's way into that specific program.
newmann
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5/2/2016 2:53pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I've not followed this issue closely, but here's a dissenting view on whether or not it's "working". Personally I look at what the food stamp program...
I've not followed this issue closely, but here's a dissenting view on whether or not it's "working". Personally I look at what the food stamp program really is, subsidies to ensure farmers produce food even if the market is not conducive. There are some very good reasons for having farmers able to produce large quantities of food without long waits for developing land that has more to do with national defense than feeding the poor, but that's not what most people think about.

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/barbara-shelly/arti…
JW381 wrote:
And I whole heartedly wish food stamps were restricted to more basic foods. Foods that a) actually nourish the body and b) help support American food...
And I whole heartedly wish food stamps were restricted to more basic foods. Foods that a) actually nourish the body and b) help support American food production that isn't Nabisco or General Mills. The fact that you can use EBT to buy a 12 pack of Mtn Dew, which is cheaper than bottled water, makes me feel as if the corporate interest has dipped it's way into that specific program.
Well just as long as you don't take away my lobstah and ahi roll...Laughing

https://youtu.be/bP_izYhdehY
motogeezer
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5/2/2016 4:04pm
Rooster wrote:
Funny how people can twist statistics to fit their own agenda. Kansas' unemployment rate has gone down at the same rate as the national rate and...
Funny how people can twist statistics to fit their own agenda.

Kansas' unemployment rate has gone down at the same rate as the national rate and if you compare them to other states who didn't institute the same work clause you'd find no causal effect from instituting those work requirements.

I don't disagree with having to work to get benefits, but lets not fall all over ourselves congratulating a program that had no measurable affect on the unemployment rate compared to surrounding states or the national average.

&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:US&idim=stateDizzy T2000000000000Dizzy T0600000000000Dizzy T5000000000000&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false">
All you need to do to decide if an article like that is worth a grain of salt, is to look at what other "News" is being reported on the site.

Every single thing I saw on that page was twisted and/or sensationalized.

They do have a sense of humor, though; While I was checking out their other BS, a pop-up appeared that said "DEMAND THE TRUTH! Subscribe Today!"

Laughing
SCR
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5/2/2016 9:28pm
It's a known fact that food stamps stimulate the economy. In fact for every dollar of food stamps the GDP is increased by $1.73. Not only that but according to government economic experts unemployment dollars also stimulate the economy and increase GDP.
Now, I'm not very smart. But even I can see that if we can increase GDP by 73% with food stamps alone then clearly the Government should be giving unlimited food stamps to every citizen. And undocumented citizens also. Of course.
newmann
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5/3/2016 4:53am
SCR wrote:
It's a known fact that food stamps stimulate the economy. In fact for every dollar of food stamps the GDP is increased by $1.73. Not only...
It's a known fact that food stamps stimulate the economy. In fact for every dollar of food stamps the GDP is increased by $1.73. Not only that but according to government economic experts unemployment dollars also stimulate the economy and increase GDP.
Now, I'm not very smart. But even I can see that if we can increase GDP by 73% with food stamps alone then clearly the Government should be giving unlimited food stamps to every citizen. And undocumented citizens also. Of course.
Old Fart?


Laughing
Spartacus
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5/3/2016 2:18pm
Lies get more traction than the truth these days no matter who's spinning them.
motogeezer
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5/3/2016 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 4:38pm
^^^ I'm just having fun too, but some people read a line like you posted and take it as a whole statement, when it's only a small part of a statement.

Context means a lot.

The bit you posted originally wasn't verbatim.

It was a paraphrased combination of snippets from separate paragraphs.

Here are the two separate pieces:

1)" if you want to be creative and be a musician or whatever, you can leave your work, focus on your talent, your skill, your passion, your aspirations because you will have health care."

2)"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance or that people could start a business and be entrepreneurial and take risk, but not job loss because of a child with asthma or someone in the family is bipolar—you name it, any condition—is job locking."

The point of the complete statement was to say that if people weren't forced to work full-time at a job that's not satisfying, just to have health care, they would now have a chance to work at something more important to them.

Putting those together to basically say, "Don't bother working for a living" is a little bit disingenuous.
SCR
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5/3/2016 5:44pm
motogeezer wrote:
^^^ I'm just having fun too, but some people read a line like you posted and take it as a whole statement, when it's only a...
^^^ I'm just having fun too, but some people read a line like you posted and take it as a whole statement, when it's only a small part of a statement.

Context means a lot.

The bit you posted originally wasn't verbatim.

It was a paraphrased combination of snippets from separate paragraphs.

Here are the two separate pieces:

1)" if you want to be creative and be a musician or whatever, you can leave your work, focus on your talent, your skill, your passion, your aspirations because you will have health care."

2)"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance or that people could start a business and be entrepreneurial and take risk, but not job loss because of a child with asthma or someone in the family is bipolar—you name it, any condition—is job locking."

The point of the complete statement was to say that if people weren't forced to work full-time at a job that's not satisfying, just to have health care, they would now have a chance to work at something more important to them.

Putting those together to basically say, "Don't bother working for a living" is a little bit disingenuous.
Talk about spin. Geezer, I just spun out of my chair. HaHa.
No I get it. I am familiar with her reckless rhetoric. She is also one of the people that tried to also tell us that every dollar of food stamps adds $1.75 or whatever to the economy. Or that we needed to pass the affordable care act to find out what was in it.

I know that she was trying to make the point that if the law is changed so that there are no pre-existing conditions people wont be stuck at that job just to keep there health care. But she cant help herself and she tried to sell people a lot more than that. And that is absolutely disingenuous. And the idea that Obamacare will allow people to work less ? or now allow them pursue dreams or businesses that they would not have had the opportunity to before is absurd.

People have to work just like they did to pay for health care in the past. And in many cases they now have to work more to pay for it.


motogeezer
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5/3/2016 6:02pm
Oh, yeah...

I agree that Obama Care is a piece of shit.

It was designed to benefit the health care, pharmaceutical and insurance industries, not the people.
SCR
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5/3/2016 6:27pm
I agree, obama care made a bad situation worse. Now that the fed gov has got total control of Healthcare I'm not sure how it gets better. Being a CA native you probably remember how bad the smog was in LA in the early 70s. Gov. Regulation made a significant difference. It seems in recent decades gov. Can't fix anything. Jerry Browns bullet train that will never happen ( and shouldnt) is a good example. Just think what could be done with the hundreds of billions they want to spend on that train.
motogeezer
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5/3/2016 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2016 6:56pm
I do remember the brown skies of the 70's.

I'm very happy that we were able to do something about it.

CA has always led the way in environmental matters.

Funny thing is, I can still buy leaded 110 octane gas for my bike, right at the pump.

I ran it in my '68 Porsche, too.

As far as the train, I don't know that it "shouldn't" happen.

A shit load of people commute between L.A. and S.F. every day by air.

I used to be one of them.

The lobbyists trying to stop the bullet train are probably from the airlines.


SCR
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5/3/2016 7:05pm
Well. I have some strong opinions about that train. But I will save it for another thread.
motogeezer
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5/3/2016 7:11pm
SCR wrote:
Well. I have some strong opinions about that train. But I will save it for another thread.
Yeah, the money would be better spent on many other things.

Spartacus
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5/3/2016 7:40pm
motogeezer wrote:
Oh, yeah... I agree that Obama Care is a piece of shit. It was designed to benefit the health care, pharmaceutical and insurance industries, not the...
Oh, yeah...

I agree that Obama Care is a piece of shit.

It was designed to benefit the health care, pharmaceutical and insurance industries, not the people.
But isn't the goal of the most legislators to benefit business these days? I thought the spin was "if businesses do well YOU'LL do well" . You know, trickle down.........

Lobbying works as does throwing huge money at people.

The cost of health care needs to be addressed not who pays for it. Face it, in America we have expensive health care that's not as good as it should be but they have it spun that we have the best. Question that and they scream over regulation and taxes as does every business.



The Rock
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5/3/2016 9:56pm
Even so, taking even an idiot's statement and making it into something it wasn't meant to be, ain't cool.

Couldn't agree more. Neither is it cool to edit Planned Parenthood video to give people a false impression. Azzhat "no more baby parts" killer in Colorado was motivated by their lies.

Unfortunately the truth is less important than influencing others with outright lies to many.
Spartacus
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5/4/2016 5:12am
The Rock wrote:
[b]Even so, taking even an idiot's statement and making it into something it wasn't meant to be, ain't cool.[/b] Couldn't agree more. Neither is it cool...
Even so, taking even an idiot's statement and making it into something it wasn't meant to be, ain't cool.

Couldn't agree more. Neither is it cool to edit Planned Parenthood video to give people a false impression. Azzhat "no more baby parts" killer in Colorado was motivated by their lies.

Unfortunately the truth is less important than influencing others with outright lies to many.
1+
5/4/2016 6:04am
In reality, what good does music and art do for our economy in the long run? We already have the issue of entitled mellinnials and now we're advertising to kids that you can not care about education and draw freaking pictures for a living and everything will be just fine. Then they go off and get themselves $40K in debt getting an "art degree" and end up living off the government, (aka a piece of your hard earned paycheck) because they can't find a job. What a grand idea.
5/4/2016 7:20am
In reality, what good does music and art do for our economy in the long run? We already have the issue of entitled mellinnials and now...
In reality, what good does music and art do for our economy in the long run? We already have the issue of entitled mellinnials and now we're advertising to kids that you can not care about education and draw freaking pictures for a living and everything will be just fine. Then they go off and get themselves $40K in debt getting an "art degree" and end up living off the government, (aka a piece of your hard earned paycheck) because they can't find a job. What a grand idea.
I am trying to picture an art school grad living off foodstamps so he/she can "draw pictures for a living." I am not sure that is a huge problem in society.

I think what she was trying to say was that people should not have to work for a corporation and be on a group plan in order to live and be healthy.

I was happy to see health care reform because I was crippled before Obamacare. I couldn't walk without severe pain, and doing my job was a huge challenge. I had no choice except suck up the debilitating pain and keep going.
My broken hip was a "pre-existing condition" before Obamacare. After Obamacare, I was allowed the privilege of paying a reasonable amount for a new hip. This allowed me to work, become a productive member of society, raise my kid etc. instead of going on disability as people were telling me to do.

motogeezer
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5/4/2016 7:33am
I am trying to picture an art school grad living off foodstamps so he/she can "draw pictures for a living." I am not sure that is...
I am trying to picture an art school grad living off foodstamps so he/she can "draw pictures for a living." I am not sure that is a huge problem in society.

I think what she was trying to say was that people should not have to work for a corporation and be on a group plan in order to live and be healthy.

I was happy to see health care reform because I was crippled before Obamacare. I couldn't walk without severe pain, and doing my job was a huge challenge. I had no choice except suck up the debilitating pain and keep going.
My broken hip was a "pre-existing condition" before Obamacare. After Obamacare, I was allowed the privilege of paying a reasonable amount for a new hip. This allowed me to work, become a productive member of society, raise my kid etc. instead of going on disability as people were telling me to do.

Good to hear a success story come out of the ACA.

I've heard a few others as well.

If we could get the ridiculous pricing of treatment and pharmaceuticals under control, there would be a lot more.

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