New Tesla Roadster

Ludicrous mode?

That’s insane! I hope they are real numbers...

0-60 in 5sec for their semi(bobtail)

Here a link to watch the whole semi/roadster reveal from last night:

https://livestream.tesla.com/

Pretty awesome stuff.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

Here a link to watch the whole semi/roadster reveal from last night:

https://livestream.tesla.com/

Pretty awesome stuff.

If the tractor performs as claimed, it's going to be a lot more useful than originally thought. 400 miles on a 30 minute charge makes the possibility of long hauling a lot more realistic than what the earlier performance projections were.

Won’t matter until price of these vehicles comes down. I’m a big Tesla fan but also realistic. Toyota builds in a month what Tesla outputs in two years from a production standpoint.

The market for E vehicles isn’t there because the costs are too high currently. Tesla doesn’t even own the IP to the batter technology. It’s owned by Panasonic and Tesla licenses it.

Once costs come down, technology improves, companies like Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc will be in the game.

They opened a Tesla store near where I work. It’s usually empty.

I would love a Tesla. Too pricey right now for most folks. And they need to produce/sale cars that match their insane over valued stock price.

I just bought two more shares right before close today.

But does it have drift mode...?

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

I just bought two more shares right before close today.

I like the cars and ideas, but the companies are a little scary. Receive billions in government subsidies, still reporting net losses.

With all the hype, I'd almost buy a position to short them (bet on their failure).

Are you referring to the tax breaks that government gives to the consumer? Those are not only for Tesla customers and Musk has always been against the tax breaks, and they are ending in fact (except for California).

https://electrek.co/2017/11/02/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-expected-slashed-new-house-tax-bill/

Even if the government wasn't going to cut it out, it was going to stop for Tesla anyway because it only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles that a company sells. Tesla is close to that mark.

How about we get rid of the fossil fuel subsidies while we're at it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I am confident they will become profitable in the not too distant future.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

Are you referring to the tax breaks that government gives to the consumer? Those are not only for Tesla customers and Musk has always been against the tax breaks, and they are ending in fact (except for California).

https://electrek.co/2017/11/02/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-expected-slashed-new-house-tax-bill/

Even if the government wasn't going to cut it out, it was going to stop for Tesla anyway because it only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles that a company sells. Tesla is close to that mark.

How about we get rid of the fossil fuel subsidies while we're at it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I am confident they will become profitable in the not too distant future.

It’s amazing how much disinformation there is out there about Tesla and Musk’s Companies in general.

I guess it’s not that shocking when you see where it comes from. Always the same bunch that denies climate change and pushes fossil fuels. Propaganda seems to be the only strategy they have left at this point.

I’m a Tesla investor as well, and can’t wait to give Space-X some of my money. If people truly believe that these companies are going nowhere then they have their eyes half closed.

There's a lot of hype and cult like fanaticism. That's great, it's what you want. And it's what their company valuation is based off of right now. At some point the numbers are going to have to work for them to survive. All this money they are being handed to stay afloat and spending will either result in revolutionizing the auto industry, or they're going to implode.

8.9 sec 1/4 mile. Tesla is about to take over

doofy wrote:

8.9 sec 1/4 mile. Tesla is about to take over

Only if they can ever turn a profit. Eventually, VC bankers will not be willing to invest in a company which doesn't turn a profit. BTW...Tesla just posted their worst ever losses. The day of reckoning for them is coming faster than many would like or believe

TXDirt wrote:

Won’t matter until price of these vehicles comes down. I’m a big Tesla fan but also realistic. Toyota builds in a month what Tesla outputs in two years from a production standpoint.

The market for E vehicles isn’t there because the costs are too high currently. Tesla doesn’t even own the IP to the batter technology. It’s owned by Panasonic and Tesla licenses it.

Once costs come down, technology improves, companies like Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc will be in the game.

They opened a Tesla store near where I work. It’s usually empty.

I would love a Tesla. Too pricey right now for most folks. And they need to produce/sale cars that match their insane over valued stock price.

I think the battery tech is a bit more connected than Tesla simply purchasing a license to use it. They develop the tech with Panasonic for proprietary use, and Panasonic owns a portion of Tesla as well. Panasonic builds Tesla's proprietary batteries at Tesla's facility, so it'd almost be closer to say that Tesla hires Panasonic as a subcontractor to come in and produce products that Tesla designs. Obviously they are a bit more intertwined than that, but Tesla seems to hold the patents on their battery developments, so it's kind of close.

Right now it actually sounds like the big bottleneck is occurring on the Panasonic side of things. Reports say that Panasonic is not able to produce the battery packs as consistently as needed for the Model 3 to fully ramp up production levels. This has lead to big costs on the structure lines without the revenues from sales of the cars.

If the battery production issues get sorted, their cash flow issues improve dramatically.

As cool as the new Roadster, the semi truck, or even the P100D is, it's going to be the lowest cost Tesla that makes or breaks them. If they can start fulfilling the orders for the 3, their stock chart will look like a successful launch trajectory from one of the Space X rockets..........

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

Are you referring to the tax breaks that government gives to the consumer? Those are not only for Tesla customers and Musk has always been against the tax breaks, and they are ending in fact (except for California).

https://electrek.co/2017/11/02/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-expected-slashed-new-house-tax-bill/

Even if the government wasn't going to cut it out, it was going to stop for Tesla anyway because it only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles that a company sells. Tesla is close to that mark.

How about we get rid of the fossil fuel subsidies while we're at it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I am confident they will become profitable in the not too distant future.

I kept to myself during your last tesla glory post, out of respect for you guys admiration of the company... but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Also, good luck with that 30 minute charge time on the tractor... do you realize how much available power (and infrastructure) it takes to do that? All that being said, one day, it WILL all come together and be feasible, just not quite yet. Btw, batteries are horrible to produce and extemely toxic when disposed of. Outta sight outta mind tho, right?

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

Are you referring to the tax breaks that government gives to the consumer? Those are not only for Tesla customers and Musk has always been against the tax breaks, and they are ending in fact (except for California).

https://electrek.co/2017/11/02/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-expected-slashed-new-house-tax-bill/

Even if the government wasn't going to cut it out, it was going to stop for Tesla anyway because it only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles that a company sells. Tesla is close to that mark.

How about we get rid of the fossil fuel subsidies while we're at it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I am confident they will become profitable in the not too distant future.

Squitlege wrote:

I kept to myself during your last tesla glory post, out of respect for you guys admiration of the company... but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Also, good luck with that 30 minute charge time on the tractor... do you realize how much available power (and infrastructure) it takes to do that? All that being said, one day, it WILL all come together and be feasible, just not quite yet. Btw, batteries are horrible to produce and extemely toxic when disposed of. Outta sight outta mind tho, right?

I have no doubt that the rest of the "industry" would waste no time belittling Tesla. Everything Tesla does is seen as a threat to the traditional industry members. From their use of only electricity to their lack of dealership franchises, they are upsetting the status quo.

The battery disposal issue is a real issue, which is why it's been great that a car company like Tesla would spend so much effort working towards a closed loop system for their batteries. It's another example of Tesla doing things a bit differently than most other auto manufacturers.

I think things definitely need to be done different than the big three, especially. Am I discrediting tesla as a company? Not at all. Just stating facts. I don't build cars, so where is my motivation to belittle them? And for the record, I'm nowhere even near the "industry" norm in regards to my association with the car business.

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

Are you referring to the tax breaks that government gives to the consumer? Those are not only for Tesla customers and Musk has always been against the tax breaks, and they are ending in fact (except for California).

https://electrek.co/2017/11/02/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-expected-slashed-new-house-tax-bill/

Even if the government wasn't going to cut it out, it was going to stop for Tesla anyway because it only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles that a company sells. Tesla is close to that mark.

How about we get rid of the fossil fuel subsidies while we're at it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I am confident they will become profitable in the not too distant future.

Squitlege wrote:

I kept to myself during your last tesla glory post, out of respect for you guys admiration of the company... but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Also, good luck with that 30 minute charge time on the tractor... do you realize how much available power (and infrastructure) it takes to do that? All that being said, one day, it WILL all come together and be feasible, just not quite yet. Btw, batteries are horrible to produce and extemely toxic when disposed of. Outta sight outta mind tho, right?

but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Are these some sort of "secret" prop ups by the government just to Tesla that only people in the auto industry know about? That would seem odd, I would think that would have to be public knowledge so maybe you can provide a little more information about it? Tesla did take a government loan for $465M. They paid that loan back plus interest. Yes, the tax payer actually MADE money on that deal to Tesla. Now, they're not the only ones who took a loan.

How about we take a look at what the government did for GM and Chrysler and you tell me who is being "propped up" by the government with a $10B dollar loss:

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization

And there is no need to keep quiet. Please speak up, I'm only interested in the truth. I just happen to think Tesla is leading the world to a better place. They just may well fail but there is no denying they've got other manufacturers scrambling and building their own electric vehicles. That may in turn eventually put Tesla out of business but they have sped up the inevitable and it's good news for earthlings. I'm willing to invest money in that, and if they go out of business and I lose it, oh well, I'll still consider it a worthwhile investment.

XXVoid MainXX wrote: but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Are these some sort of "secret" prop ups by the government just to Tesla that only people in the auto industry know about? That would seem odd, I would think that would have to be public knowledge so maybe you can provide a little more information about it? Tesla did take a government loan for $465M. They paid that loan back plus interest. Yes, the tax payer actually MADE money on that deal to Tesla. Now, they're not the only ones who took a loan.

How about we take a look at what the government did for GM and Chrysler and you tell me who is being "propped up" by the government with a $10B dollar loss:

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization

And there is no need to keep quiet. Please speak up, I'm only interested in the truth. I just happen to think Tesla is leading the world to a better place. They just may well fail but there is no denying they've got other manufacturers scrambling and building their own electric vehicles. That may in turn eventually put Tesla out of business but they have sped up the inevitable and it's good news for earthlings. I'm willing to invest money in that, and if they go out of business and I lose it, oh well, I'll still consider it a worthwhile investment.

Tesla paid back that money with venture capital money....either that or proceeds from sales of shares. Those are the only ways they could, since they lose billions of dollars a year!

Bottom line: money is the grease that makes the world go 'round. When Tesla runs out of money...when they can't sell shares to generate capital, when venture capitalists quit funding them..they must turn a profit, or no one will give a damn about how good or environmentally friendly they are...they'll just be done

Squitlege wrote:

I kept to myself during your last tesla glory post, out of respect for you guys admiration of the company... but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Also, good luck with that 30 minute charge time on the tractor... do you realize how much available power (and infrastructure) it takes to do that? All that being said, one day, it WILL all come together and be feasible, just not quite yet. Btw, batteries are horrible to produce and extemely toxic when disposed of. Outta sight outta mind tho, right?

XXVoid MainXX wrote: but it's very well known within the car industry that Tesla has been propped up by the gov't for a long time. And no, I'm not referring to the tax credit the end consumer is or was getting.

Are these some sort of "secret" prop ups by the government just to Tesla that only people in the auto industry know about? That would seem odd, I would think that would have to be public knowledge so maybe you can provide a little more information about it? Tesla did take a government loan for $465M. They paid that loan back plus interest. Yes, the tax payer actually MADE money on that deal to Tesla. Now, they're not the only ones who took a loan.

How about we take a look at what the government did for GM and Chrysler and you tell me who is being "propped up" by the government with a $10B dollar loss:

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization

And there is no need to keep quiet. Please speak up, I'm only interested in the truth. I just happen to think Tesla is leading the world to a better place. They just may well fail but there is no denying they've got other manufacturers scrambling and building their own electric vehicles. That may in turn eventually put Tesla out of business but they have sped up the inevitable and it's good news for earthlings. I'm willing to invest money in that, and if they go out of business and I lose it, oh well, I'll still consider it a worthwhile investment.

harescrambled wrote:

Tesla paid back that money with venture capital money....either that or proceeds from sales of shares. Those are the only ways they could, since they lose billions of dollars a year!

So then they're not being propped up by the government then right? They're being propped up by people who believe they'll get their money back plus interest. And if they don't, that doesn't effect the tax payer in the least.

harescrambled wrote:

Bottom line: money is the grease that makes the world go 'round. When Tesla runs out of money...when they can't sell shares to generate capital, when venture capitalists quit funding them..they must turn a profit, or no one will give a damn about how good or environmentally friendly they are...they'll just be done

Yep, that's the way it works. By the way, why is it that people like you seem to "want" them to fail? Just curious because I don't understand it.

Squitlege wrote:

I think things definitely need to be done different than the big three, especially. Am I discrediting tesla as a company? Not at all. Just stating facts. I don't build cars, so where is my motivation to belittle them? And for the record, I'm nowhere even near the "industry" norm in regards to my association with the car business.

Well when you say "well known within the car industry", it sounded like you may know something..........

As Void asked, what secret funding are you referring to? Things like local tax breaks that nearly every single manufacturer of any large scale attempts to extort from states, counties, and cities? That's not any sort of difference than any other automaker.

Again, the real missing link with Tesla will probably be filled when they can achieve full production of the 3. That'll be the game changer. And I wouldn't doubt that a few years after that they'd probably come out with an even more inexpensive, smaller, "city car" that would be very successful.

I think that their technical progress has been enough to keep the money spigot flowing for quite a little while longer.

It's nothing new, the amount of subsidies and tax breaks and favorable legislation given to some large corporations is staggering. Tesla plays the game well, and why wouldn't a business seek that if available.


Rival Automakers Are Funding Tesla Through Electric Car Credits
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-25/funding-tesla-ticks-off-automakers-needing-electric-car-credits

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html

Inside Nevada’s $1.3 billion gamble on Tesla
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/8/10937076/tesla-gigafactory-battery-factory-nevada-tax-deal-elon-musk


And of course Tesla wants to end the purchase subsidy, they will be the first automaker to hit the 200,000 mark, which means they will be the first to lose that offering to their customers while other automakers can still use it. It will be interesting to see how the Model 3 sales respond when that does happen.

I hope this didn't get too off topic regarding the funding, profitability, and investment potential of Tesla and turn into a bash thread.

I like their ideas and products and hope they are successful, the more competitors in a marketplace the better it is for consumers.

GM and Chrysler: $80.7 billion
ULA gets $800M per year to do "nothing", and when they do something they charge 3 times what SpaceX charges.

Come on now. Seems like you guys are being a little hard on Tesla and SpaceX.

Never once did I say anything was a secret, as EBS showed, it's pretty easy to read up on if anyone cares to look. Not bashing the brand or the product either, it's just black and white facts. I was not a fan of the Gm and Chrysler bail outs one bit, or prop up, or whatever other feel good terminology you coose. I'm sorry but I operate in the real world of profits and losses, not hopes and wishes.

Back on topic tho, the cars are badass! Especially the guy running around smoking everyone at the drag strips... that dude is a boss in my book! Funny stuff