Mtb guys, front end traction

AJ565
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AJ565
Edited Date/Time 10/1/2021 9:23am
Before I sign up on some mountain bike message boards I though I’d ask here since a lot of guys also ride.

On my Niner with RockShox Revelation RCT3 Solo Air forks I’m running them at about 18% sag. When I ride with them unlocked the front end has no traction in loose flat turns, I can literally watch them slide across the dirt. I’ve tried the compression about in the middle (I bottom it out a lot then) and at max clicks hard (still bottom just not as much) the rebound is on the slower side (I haven’t tried faster yet).

If I flip the lever to lock out the fork I’m climb mode, I get a lot of front grip and have way more confidence busting ass through turns. I also don’t bottom out very much. It doesn’t seem that the rear shock (fox float ctd with boost valve) effects any of this at all as I’ve tried it in climb, trail, and decent modes. Anybody got any suggestions? If not I’m just gonna leave it locked out as it works well for me, I was just looking for a little better performance out of the suspension.
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duckdog77
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duckdog77 5/2/2020 2:18am
5/2/2020 2:18am
I’m just getting into the mountain bike world myself. But I feel like they work suspension wise similar to what a dirt bike does. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

From what you are describing I would bump up the air pressure in the fork. It sounds too soft to me. Bottoming out is the first sign to that. Front end is light be cause you’re not getting enough weight on the front tire. Which is why you like it when you lock it out. That’s where I would start. More air pressure in the fork. Clickers in the middle. Then adjust clickers To fine tune once you’ve found an air pressure that will work.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/2/2020 6:59am
5/2/2020 6:59am
I’ve thought that as well about the suspension setting, but I’m finding that’s not the case. I have talked to a few shops and they told me to just set sag because that’s all they ever do.

I’ve tried more air, but that drops the sag below 15%. I ride aggressive on the bike in a similar attack position as moto, elbows up over the bars so I don’t believe it’s a weight bias issue. It might just be the nature of the fork, the setup I could find on it did say that climb mode is the firmest setting and ideal for climbing and sprinting, which is what I’m basically doing.
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Falcon
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Falcon 5/2/2020 3:13pm
5/2/2020 3:13pm
Sag should be between 25 and 30%. It sounds weird, but trust me; 18% is probably not even close to enough. I run 30% front and rear on my mtb. About 28psi in the tires.
Crank your compression damping up a few clicks and if you feel like you are still bottoming too much, run an extra volume spacer or two.
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DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 5/2/2020 3:13pm
5/2/2020 3:13pm
Shiftfaced wrote:
Speed your rebound up.
This. Turn your rebound clicker out to the mid-way point. Start there, and tinker a click either way. I like mine two clicks faster than mid-way.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/2/2020 4:13pm
5/2/2020 4:13pm
Thanks guys, I’ll give the rebound a try on Monday.
Nairb#70
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Nairb#70 5/2/2020 4:16pm
5/2/2020 4:16pm
Tire selection correct? Just like in MX it makes all the difference in the world.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/2/2020 4:23pm
5/2/2020 4:23pm
Falcon wrote:
Sag should be between 25 and 30%. It sounds weird, but trust me; 18% is probably not even close to enough. I run 30% front and...
Sag should be between 25 and 30%. It sounds weird, but trust me; 18% is probably not even close to enough. I run 30% front and rear on my mtb. About 28psi in the tires.
Crank your compression damping up a few clicks and if you feel like you are still bottoming too much, run an extra volume spacer or two.
The setup for my bike says 15-20% so I split the difference.

Tire pressure wise I’m running 35. I was running 25 with my old tires, but the maxxis I have on it now rolled a lot at low pressures because of the thin sidewalls. They hook up really good at 35 and don’t roll as bad.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/2/2020 4:29pm
5/2/2020 4:29pm
Nairb#70 wrote:
Tire selection correct? Just like in MX it makes all the difference in the world.
Maxxis ardent is what’s on it now. They hook up pretty good. Changing the suspension from anything but climb though and they don’t grip very well at all so I don’t think it’s a tire issue.
zehn
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zehn 5/2/2020 4:57pm
5/2/2020 4:57pm
Sounds like a spring rate issue to me too. You say when you put the bike in climb mode with the lockout, you don't have any issues. The only change you've made is to reduce fork travel to essentially zero and the problem is fixed. That really tells me all I need to know IMO
AJ565
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AJ565 5/2/2020 5:33pm
5/2/2020 5:33pm
zehn wrote:
Sounds like a spring rate issue to me too. You say when you put the bike in climb mode with the lockout, you don't have any...
Sounds like a spring rate issue to me too. You say when you put the bike in climb mode with the lockout, you don't have any issues. The only change you've made is to reduce fork travel to essentially zero and the problem is fixed. That really tells me all I need to know IMO
I have full travel in climb mode.
zehn
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zehn 5/2/2020 9:07pm
5/2/2020 9:07pm
AJ565 wrote:
I have full travel in climb mode.
Then disregard what I said because I misunderstood you
cjmx
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cjmx 5/3/2020 4:42am
5/3/2020 4:42am
Falcon wrote:
Sag should be between 25 and 30%. It sounds weird, but trust me; 18% is probably not even close to enough. I run 30% front and...
Sag should be between 25 and 30%. It sounds weird, but trust me; 18% is probably not even close to enough. I run 30% front and rear on my mtb. About 28psi in the tires.
Crank your compression damping up a few clicks and if you feel like you are still bottoming too much, run an extra volume spacer or two.
AJ565 wrote:
The setup for my bike says 15-20% so I split the difference. Tire pressure wise I’m running 35. I was running 25 with my old tires...
The setup for my bike says 15-20% so I split the difference.

Tire pressure wise I’m running 35. I was running 25 with my old tires, but the maxxis I have on it now rolled a lot at low pressures because of the thin sidewalls. They hook up really good at 35 and don’t roll as bad.
35 is way too high. Your suspension is going to feel awful stiff. I run 23 in the front. 25 in the back. Try 25 again and set your sag a little higher.
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Chris99Flannery 5/3/2020 3:47pm
5/3/2020 3:47pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2020 3:49pm
Nairb#70 wrote:
Tire selection correct? Just like in MX it makes all the difference in the world.
AJ565 wrote:
Maxxis ardent is what’s on it now. They hook up pretty good. Changing the suspension from anything but climb though and they don’t grip very well...
Maxxis ardent is what’s on it now. They hook up pretty good. Changing the suspension from anything but climb though and they don’t grip very well at all so I don’t think it’s a tire issue.
ardents are no good!!!! Look at the flimsy transition knob. It folds and feels vague. Go with a dhr2 or Assegai. Mid 20ish on psi more or less. You'll be amazed. Don't run rebound too fast, still need some control. Also weight over front AND weight the outside pedal in corners.
Lots of my Moto mates are struggling and I have quite the chuckle..
AJ565
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AJ565 5/3/2020 4:08pm
5/3/2020 4:08pm
cjmx wrote:
35 is way too high. Your suspension is going to feel awful stiff. I run 23 in the front. 25 in the back. Try 25 again...
35 is way too high. Your suspension is going to feel awful stiff. I run 23 in the front. 25 in the back. Try 25 again and set your sag a little higher.
The maxxis like the higher pressure better. They were terrible at low pressure.
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AJ565
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AJ565 5/3/2020 4:16pm
5/3/2020 4:16pm
Chris99Flannery wrote:
ardents are no good!!!! Look at the flimsy transition knob. It folds and feels vague. Go with a dhr2 or Assegai. Mid 20ish on psi more...
ardents are no good!!!! Look at the flimsy transition knob. It folds and feels vague. Go with a dhr2 or Assegai. Mid 20ish on psi more or less. You'll be amazed. Don't run rebound too fast, still need some control. Also weight over front AND weight the outside pedal in corners.
Lots of my Moto mates are struggling and I have quite the chuckle..
Yeah I haven’t been a fan, but I wasn’t going to buy another set of tires after just putting those on. It had Hans Dampf on the front and nobbie nic on the rear when I bought it. I should have just got another set of those for it, but this is what the shops around here said they sell the most of for the terrain I’m riding.

I ride forward and weight the outer pedal just like when I ride moto. It’s funny watching others struggle with that concept.
Chris99Flannery 5/3/2020 5:17pm
5/3/2020 5:17pm
I'm actually a fan of the schwalbe tires as they have a rounder profile. Try putting a cable tie into the fork seal to burp air pressure that builds up in the lowers, this will make a bit more supple to begin with- it works. Also turn your bike upside down for 5 mins to get the lube oil to the foam rings under the fork seals too.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/3/2020 5:48pm
5/3/2020 5:48pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2020 5:49pm
Chris99Flannery wrote:
I'm actually a fan of the schwalbe tires as they have a rounder profile. Try putting a cable tie into the fork seal to burp air...
I'm actually a fan of the schwalbe tires as they have a rounder profile. Try putting a cable tie into the fork seal to burp air pressure that builds up in the lowers, this will make a bit more supple to begin with- it works. Also turn your bike upside down for 5 mins to get the lube oil to the foam rings under the fork seals too.
I think I’m gonna order a new set or tires and go back to the Hans and nic. The front I’m thinking 29x2.35. What size should I go with nik on the rear? Same size or a smaller 29x2.25?

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Chris99Flannery 5/3/2020 9:15pm
5/3/2020 9:15pm
AJ565 wrote:
I think I’m gonna order a new set or tires and go back to the Hans and nic. The front I’m thinking 29x2.35. What size should...
I think I’m gonna order a new set or tires and go back to the Hans and nic. The front I’m thinking 29x2.35. What size should I go with nik on the rear? Same size or a smaller 29x2.25?
Depending on inner width of your rims I guess. But I like slightly more tire than less.
seth505
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seth505 5/3/2020 10:19pm
5/3/2020 10:19pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2020 3:41pm
I often run Maxxis dhr/dhf or high rollers and I’d never run 35psi. That would cause my front to lose it like you’re describing for sure!
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cjmx
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cjmx 5/4/2020 4:48am
5/4/2020 4:48am Edited Date/Time 5/4/2020 5:15am
cjmx wrote:
35 is way too high. Your suspension is going to feel awful stiff. I run 23 in the front. 25 in the back. Try 25 again...
35 is way too high. Your suspension is going to feel awful stiff. I run 23 in the front. 25 in the back. Try 25 again and set your sag a little higher.
AJ565 wrote:
The maxxis like the higher pressure better. They were terrible at low pressure.
Never heard or felt that. I run maxxis on both my bikes. Ask your LBS for a good alternative tire for your area and what pressure they run. Because your suspension is never going to feel right with that much pressure
AJ565
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AJ565 5/4/2020 6:15am
5/4/2020 6:15am
Chris99Flannery wrote:
Depending on inner width of your rims I guess. But I like slightly more tire than less.
They are 28mm rims.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/4/2020 6:21am
5/4/2020 6:21am
seth505 wrote:
I often run Maxxis dhr/dhf or high rollers and I’d never run 35psi. That would cause my front to lose it like you’re describing for sure!
I tried the lower pressures and they just roll over and they look like they are almost flat with me on it (170lbs). I took a lot of rock hits to the rim with them as well. Running 35 I still get some sidewall roll, but they hold up a lot better. I only have a front end traction problem with the forks set to decent or trail mode. On climb mode the tire sticks really well.
AJ565
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AJ565 5/4/2020 6:25am
5/4/2020 6:25am
cjmx wrote:
Never heard or felt that. I run maxxis on both my bikes. Ask your LBS for a good alternative tire for your area and what pressure...
Never heard or felt that. I run maxxis on both my bikes. Ask your LBS for a good alternative tire for your area and what pressure they run. Because your suspension is never going to feel right with that much pressure
Maybe try a higher pressure and see what yours does? Running lower pressure I got a lot of rim hits and even bent the rim because of it. I'll try to remember to get a picture when I ride tonight of how the tires look at lower pressure, but they kinda look like they are going flat.

My suspension feels fine as long as the front is in climb mode. The rear can be in any setting and works perfectly fine in all 3.
cjmx
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cjmx 5/4/2020 6:44am
5/4/2020 6:44am
cjmx wrote:
Never heard or felt that. I run maxxis on both my bikes. Ask your LBS for a good alternative tire for your area and what pressure...
Never heard or felt that. I run maxxis on both my bikes. Ask your LBS for a good alternative tire for your area and what pressure they run. Because your suspension is never going to feel right with that much pressure
AJ565 wrote:
Maybe try a higher pressure and see what yours does? Running lower pressure I got a lot of rim hits and even bent the rim because...
Maybe try a higher pressure and see what yours does? Running lower pressure I got a lot of rim hits and even bent the rim because of it. I'll try to remember to get a picture when I ride tonight of how the tires look at lower pressure, but they kinda look like they are going flat.

My suspension feels fine as long as the front is in climb mode. The rear can be in any setting and works perfectly fine in all 3.
Trust me, I have tested pressure. Why would I go higher if my suspension and traction feels great? My downhill bike I run CushCore to run even lower pressure. Hookup is amazing. Good luck with the new tires.
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seth505 5/4/2020 7:20am
5/4/2020 7:20am
seth505 wrote:
I often run Maxxis dhr/dhf or high rollers and I’d never run 35psi. That would cause my front to lose it like you’re describing for sure!
AJ565 wrote:
I tried the lower pressures and they just roll over and they look like they are almost flat with me on it (170lbs). I took a...
I tried the lower pressures and they just roll over and they look like they are almost flat with me on it (170lbs). I took a lot of rock hits to the rim with them as well. Running 35 I still get some sidewall roll, but they hold up a lot better. I only have a front end traction problem with the forks set to decent or trail mode. On climb mode the tire sticks really well.
Ya interesting, in that case maybe more PSI in your forks then. The climb mode should act sort of like a lock-out and just stiffen it up. Maybe on trail/decent mode you have too soft of a setup coupled with rebound that is too sluggish to mate to the terrain. Either way do some experimenting 1 step at a time. Keep the tires how you want them, keep the same PSI in fork and just speed up the rebound. Then try more PSI, etc...
AJ565
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AJ565 5/4/2020 7:45am
5/4/2020 7:45am
seth505 wrote:
Ya interesting, in that case maybe more PSI in your forks then. The climb mode should act sort of like a lock-out and just stiffen it...
Ya interesting, in that case maybe more PSI in your forks then. The climb mode should act sort of like a lock-out and just stiffen it up. Maybe on trail/decent mode you have too soft of a setup coupled with rebound that is too sluggish to mate to the terrain. Either way do some experimenting 1 step at a time. Keep the tires how you want them, keep the same PSI in fork and just speed up the rebound. Then try more PSI, etc...
I think I'm good on the fork air pressure sitting about 18% sag. The compression is all the way in, but the rebound was almost all the way out. Last night I cranked it full open and then went in 2 clicks to start with. I'm going riding after work today so I'll report back.
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AJ565
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AJ565 5/4/2020 7:54am
5/4/2020 7:54am
cjmx wrote:
Trust me, I have tested pressure. Why would I go higher if my suspension and traction feels great? My downhill bike I run CushCore to run...
Trust me, I have tested pressure. Why would I go higher if my suspension and traction feels great? My downhill bike I run CushCore to run even lower pressure. Hookup is amazing. Good luck with the new tires.
So I came across this thread today and it seems like I'm not the only one that noticed that higher pressure in this tire works better. Someone even points out that 35 is the min pressure for it and more searching confirmed that to be the case. This is for the Ardent tire though which I have (thinner sidewall with less protection). If I had the Ardent EXO (reinforced sidewalls) then the lower pressures like you're talking about would be correct. Basically I have cheap tires on the bike, but I didn't pay for them so theres that.

https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/maxxis-ardent-rear-tire-pressures-…

I looked into that CrushCore you're running. I might pick up a set when I get the new tires as I like to haul through the rock garden at the local trails and don't like trashing my rims, but the other benefits kinda make it a no brainier as well.
GhostofGrapeApe 5/4/2020 8:38am
5/4/2020 8:38am
How much travel on your fork? 18% sag is really stiff unless it is an 80mm fork or something. Between that and the over-inflated front tire it's no wonder you're pushing the front end in "loose flat turns." Less air pressure in both the fork and tire to get the front to stick in the corners.

I weigh 215-220 and run 23-25 psi in the front tire (Maxxis 2.35) on a narrower rim than yours. No burps, no rim strikes, no rollover in corners.

If you read the link you posted that guy is referring to rear tire pressure. He even says "At 24psi the front sticks like crazy". Same weight same tire as you.
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DoctorJD
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DoctorJD 5/4/2020 8:50am
5/4/2020 8:50am
Could your fork be sucked-down (air seeped into the negative chamber)? When you said that you hardly bottom out, it made me think about that. If you have to put too much air pressure in the fork to achieve your desired sag, then it will totally jack-up the fork. Just a thought. I think it's just a crappy tire. You shouldn't have to run 35 psi in a tire to make it work.

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