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https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/903230/1/updated-yamaha-apologises-ro…
Yamaha even publicly apologized to the riders.
What a waste of two good years. He's still good enough to win titles.
The Shop
"DAMN!"
That stunt Lorenzo pulled in the beginning, and then holding up Dovi the whole race, really was driving me nuts. There's nothing I can bitch about in the end because it resulted in a win for Lorenzo so I cant really fault him. But damn can he be annoying as fuck.
Ultimately, Lorenzo had the better pace today and appeared to be managing the situation with both Marc and Dovi during those laps which was a masterclass.
The move Jorge made when the expected Marquez dive bomb came was just epic. Feigned to the inside and powered around the outside. Completely outwitted the champ in hand to hand combat. Great race.
It's hard to say if Lorenzo indeed had the better overall pace. That track isnt easy to pass on. Dovi got the holeshot and I think he wouldve managed it well from the lead. Lorenzo was clearly holding him up mid race and in hindsight, it was brilliant & deliberate race strategy. But it's also indicative of just how much those two riders despise each other.
Dovi's option was to do something stupid (like Lorenzo did on the first lap) that would set both riders back and let Marc get away. I just dont see how that helps anyone. Lorenzo's move on turn 3 / lap 1 had nothing to do with getting the lead, it was about disrupting Dovi and sending him backwards as much as possible. Again, brilliant strategy and in hindsight it's all good but had Lorenzo not won the race, Ducati would be right to be pissed off.
Ducati shouldve won this race 1-2 with Dovi winning and Lorenzo beating Marc late. That wouldve been best for the constructors championship and rider's championship. It's pretty well documented that Lorenzo is not a team player and will sacrifice the team for personal gain (cant say I blame him, it's a champion's mindset). That said, Pedrosa never wouldve done that to Marc. Dovi would never do that to Lorenzo.
Honestly, this isnt a whole lot different than when Iannone was Dovi's teammate.
That's why I hate it when teams hire two #1 riders. If Dovi is the #1 and Lorenzo was supposed to be the #1 (and is paid like it) then you will never win a championship in that situation. I think Yamaha wouldve won the title last year had they made Vinales the #1 and kept the bike the way it was when he was dominating. But Rossi wouldnt allow it.
Honda will have those same issues next year. Lorenzo is not a #2. He just doesnt have that mindset. They shouldve promoted Crutchlow.
I dont think it's a coincidence that during Rossi's best years, his teammate was Colin Edwards, a guy who was clearly the #2 and perfectly ok with it.
I wish Dovi would have stuffed Jorge so hard he would have though twice about coming back at him and the hell with the consequences. Marc is winning this anyways. I agree Lorenzo races Dovi extra hard, but Dovi hasn't established he is the alpha male in that garage and Jorge doesn't respect him.
Dovi is a hell of a rider and hard worker but doesn't have that extra talent of the top guys and has to work for every tenth he gains. He should have put Iannone in his place as well but that sure didn't happen. I feel bad for him in a way I was rooting for him last year.
While i am not a Lorenzo fan he has my respect at the moment. It appeared he would slither away into a satellite team and end his career on second class bikes collecting a paycheck. However, the Repsol deal, winning on the Ducati and bringing it to Marc over the last few weekends has shown he has something t prove and a chip on his shoulder. I look Forward to 2019 very much especially if Lorenzo manages to get into Marc's head this year.Lets hope Yamaha gets thier shit together over the winter.
They've been on the same bike for 2 years. And Dovi has scored WAAAY more points, been the better rider, and won more races. I think that should speak for itself.
The fact that Lorenzo has that petulant alpha mindset shouldnt be held against Dovi. Dovi has been there battling with Lorenzo his entire career. Let's look at a few facts....
- Lorenzo is Spanish, which means he's had the silver spoon his entire career
- In the 250cc ranks Lorenzo rode for a satellite Honda team with factory support, Dovi beat him while on a customer Honda and narrowly lost once Lorenzo was moved to the Factory Aprilia
- Dovi went to MotoGP on a customer Honda and worked his way to a factory seat, only to get dropped and battle his way back via Tech3 customer bikes. And has spent most of his career rebuilding the Ducati into arguably the best bike on the grid.
- Meanwhile Lorenzo jumped straight to Factory Yamaha where he landed what at the time was the best bike on the grid, so sure, he's a 5x world champ, but every championship has came while he literally had the best bike in the field. (Food for thought, Scott Redding used to beat Marc a LOT as amateurs. Once Repsol got involved Marc's trajectory completely changed. Talent doesnt always get the preferential treatment. Look at where Redding's career is now)
- And lastly, lets be honest, Dovi isnt the most marketable rider in the world. His looks do him no favors and that matters in motorsports. Sponsors like guys who appeal to women. The fact that Dovi has made it this far in his career despite that handicap only speaks to his talent.
Im not saying Lorenzo isnt talented. He is. But we should respect Dovi for the talent he is. He's been put in a tough position. Especially with the Iannone situation. Another "alpha male" who demanded #1 status. Im a huge Iannone fan but he caused a lot of problems in that garage trying to vye for alpha status. It was a waste of energy and cost him his position at Ducati, a brand that loved him and really wanted him to succeed. That alpha attitude can really work against you when the results arent matching the ego.
I think Dovi's calm demeanor puts off the wrong impression like he doesnt have the heart of a champion. But his battles with Marc the last two years prove otherwise. I mean, just last week it was Dovi who was the ace and put the masterclass on the two Spaniards.
And yeah, you want civil MotoGP talk? Stay off Crash.net and go to a MX forum like this.
You want civil MX talk? Go to a MotoGP forum like Crash.net
Some heads gotta roll there. It must be hugely embarrassing for them.
They have become the McLaren of MotoGP, and that's no laughing matter either!
Freaken J-Lo is riding at an all time high, I can't remember ever seeing him be so aggressive. It's like he's turned back the clock known as Father Time.
The brass at Ducati must be happy and mad at the same time!
I think the reality is that all of the bikes are making tons of power. Even the backmarkers. Engine development isnt the issue with any of these manufacturers.
It's being able to put that power to the ground that is the hurdle.
Prior to advanced electronics (traction control) horsepower made a huge difference as straightaway speeds decided races. But these days, the advanced electronics (even with the standard ECU) have made corner speed where the races are won and lost. And straightaway horsepower means nothing if you cannot exit the corner with traction and momentum.
That's exactly where the Yamaha is failing. They've always relied on being the best handling bike to get out of corners so smoothly that it didnt matter if they were down a little on horsepower to Ducati or Honda. And at this point, simply adding more power (which they could do with some simple engine re-mapping) would only make their problem worse. They cannot get the power to the ground on corner exit. Suzuki has the same issue. KTM struggles here as well.
The case of Yamaha has to do with the fact that unlike EVERY OTHER brand in the series, Yamaha refused to hire away technicians from the ECU manufacturer that they all use (Magneti). Every other brand hired away experienced guys so they'd have a head start on the software. Yamaha's strategy was to go their own route, keep things in-house, and secure any data they learned would never get leaked to their competition.
They have fallen so far behind the development curve with these ECU's, and tried (with failure) to solve the issues with chassis & engine changes that some are saying it could be until 2020 before they get the bike sorted and back to competitive with the rest of the brands.
Compare this to Ducati, whom was the first to adopt the Magneti ECU, even when prototype ECU's were still allowed, they basically sacrificed a season to get a head start with the software. And it's no wonder the bike is so fast out of the corners. Combine that with the fact that they were running as many as 8 bikes per weekend, using them all as test samples, they're easily 2 years ahead over everyone, maybe further ahead of Yamaha.
Yamaha is in real trouble. Alex Rins is starting to show his talent on the Suzuki. KTM will have Zarco next year. And Aprilia will have Iannone. Plus all of the satellite Ducatis are still better bikes than the Yamaha at the moment. And Yamaha still has no real satellite team or development riders. They got Rossi and Vinales, two guys who see themselves as #1's in a garage. And they're adding customer bikes for the SIC squad. With no confirmation that Morbidelli will actually get a 2019 spec bike next year.
It could get a lot uglier before it gets better.
Pit Row
I cant say the upper mgmt should be too upset. They offered JLo more money than he took at Honda and it was LORENZO who made the decision to leave Ducati.
They're already focused on grooming Jack Miller to be their next top rider. With Pecco as another option.
Some of my close friends, are really close with Jarvis, so they get upset when I criticize him. But the facts are the facts...
- He allowed the Lorenzo vs Rossi fight to fester
- He was in charge when Rossi was chosen over Lorenzo (who was a winning package with the CURRENT bike)
- He was in charge when Tech3 (and Zarco) was lost
- He's been in charge as Vinales career has gone down the shitter
When I bring this up, their only response is, "ya know, he's a really nice guy, you wouldnt say this stuff to his face"
My response? "if those are facts, the hell I wont say it to his face, bring him around sometime, I dont give a shit how nice he is, he's not good at his job"
I dont know how much control he really has over those situations, but if he's not in a position of control, what the fuck is is job title worth? Yamaha is a pretty easy mfg to work for, compared to Honda or Kawasaki. I find it hard to believe that Jarvis has been micro-managed from Japan, cause that's just not Yamaha's style.
Pretty crazy how much difference there is though hey. Slow or fast exits, they just get dropped... so much so that even braking zone passes are basically negated.
One thing I always think is kinda understated with MotoGp or even MX/SX. It's not the bike, but sometimes it really is and sometimes it's the comfort when the riders are all so close – Vale is clearly good enough, that bike isn't. Look at Jorge, and then look at Dovi... the bike is good but comfort for one isn't there. Crazy and kinda reminds me of RC going red to yellow while Reedy went steel to aluminium. One got comfy, the other went the other way.
At least Jorge v Marquez next year should be all time!
Jarvis did not pick the rotational mass of the crankshaft.
This was chosen by riders in off season testing.
Crankshaft mass turns out to be a bit light (to say the least)
All the ECU work in the world cant really tame this issue.
Motors are sealed for the season so they are stuck.
Jarvis takes orders from Yamaha Japan Corp.
Who you see on the team ultimately is who the guys from Corp want.
Now if you really have friends that know Lin Jarvis you would already know these things.
Thankyou for confirming that he's a waste of space.
Meanwhile Gigi was given control to completely overhaul Ducati management, steer development, and it was his decision to go get Lorenzo.
Yamaha has always been the easiest mfg to work for imo. But if they are micromanaging the MotoGP team, they are doing a horrible job at it.
Meanwhile they dont seem to give a shit about their American MX program. I cant imagine Japan thought Josh Hill was a good idea. Their hands-off approach in MX has been a disaster as well.
Yamaha cant get shit right these days. And spare me the engine freeze excuse. That's why the other major mfg's have satellite teams and a 3rd factory bike on the grid. Something Yamaha has been extremely reluctant to do. That's on them.
The reason for this update? The rider market for TEST RIDERS is really heating up.
Factory Ducati (#1) - Dovi
Factory Ducati (#2) - Petrux
Pramac Ducati (#3) - Jack
Pramac Ducati (satellite) - Pecco
Avintia Ducati (customer) - Rabat (pay ride).... unconfirmed
Avintia Ducati (customer) - Karel (pay ride).... unconfirmed
Factory HRC (#1) - MM93
Factory HRC (#2) - JLo
LCR Honda (#3) - Cal
LCR Honda (customer) - Naka
Factory Yamaha (#1) - Rossi
Factory Yamaha (#2) - Mav
SIC Yamaha (satellite) - Morbidelli
SIC Yamaha (customer) - Fabio
Factory KTM (#1) - Zarco
Factory KTM (#2) - Pol
Tech3 KTM (#3) - Olivera
Tech3 KTM (#4) - Fish
Factory Suzuki (#1) - Rins
Factory Suzuki (#2) - Mir
Gresini Aprilia (#1) - Iannone
Gresini Aprilia (#2) - Aleix
According to Asphalt & Rubber, MarcVDS has told it's staff that it will not be competing in the premier class in 2019. The same media source is also reporting that Morbidelli will get a full factory spec Yamaha. If true, that would make 17 full factory bikes out of 22 on the grid. Only 1 satellite bike. And 4 customer bikes. Which totally speaks to how healthy the sport is. Eventually we'll see the VR46 team enter motoGP to take the remaining 2 grid spots. Im not sure where that would leave the Petronas SIC team. It also remains to be seen if Suzuki will ever add a satellite squad, that would go to Avintia or SIC. Aprilia talks about adding one, but let's see if they can handle Iannone first. They got enough on their plate. I dont see SIC ever going with such a small mfg so my guess is Avintia (with some incentive from Dorna) would take up the Aprilia satellite role eventually
TEST RIDERS / WILD CARDS
Factory Ducati - Pirro
Factory HRC - Bradl
Factory Yamaha - Folger.... (rumored)
Factory KTM - Mika & Dani.... (rumored)
Factory Suzuki - Guiontolli
Factory Aprilia - Bradley (rumored).... It was supposed to be Scott Redding, but after his blowup on the team/manufacturer this past weekend, it's likely he'll never get another job in the MotoGP paddock again. So who knows who they will hire.
KTM has stated that their test riders will no longer be allowed Wildcard rides, since they have a satellite team now AND since it's really been a disaster right now having lost Mika Kallio. They were planning on him getting the 2019 bike shaken down the remainder of this year so Zarco could start off on a solid package.
KTM only has Bradley Smith going forward. They tried getting DePuniet to fill in at the races but he says he’s not in race shape so he will only be filling in for Mika as a test rider. I read somewhere that KTM contractually has to field a 2nd ride so they are eying some BSB riders as potential wildcards.
I listed Fabio’s bike as a “customer” bike because it’s going to be a 2018 spec bike that they are leasing. Satellite bikes are supposed to be current (with delayed updates) and a decent amount of factory support. I cant put what Yamaha is doing on the same level as what Pramac gets from Ducati. Pecco’s bike will get lots of parts to test AND technical help from the factory. Pramac’s squad is officially a “junior” Ducati satellite team. Whereas SIC is paying a lot of money to get the privilege of using Yamaha’s.
When you look at what Ducati & KTM do for their satellites, it’s hard to say that Yamaha does that same level of support for its affiliate team. It seems they are going to focus more on having a 2 rider test team on factory bikes. Which I’m not criticizing. If they land Folger & Smith and have them on a aggressive test schedule, they will make up lost time quickly. Yamaha prefers their affiliate teams to strictly be a place to evaluate young talent. I doubt they ever want a true satellite team that is part of the development process. If they did, they never woulda lost Tech3.
And btw, Im still not convinced that Morbidelli will be on a current factory spec M1 next year. I’ll believe it when I see it.
He was a target for Factory Yamaha and KTM. But neither spot would allow him wildcard rides. Whereas with Aprilia that's almost a guarantee he'd get 3-5 wildcards per season.
Another rumor is that Dani Pedrosa has indeed signed with KTM to lead their development. He and Mika are gonna be a really strong development team. KTM are coming. Nobody takes them serious yet, but it's gonna happen.
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