Mileage Tax!

Homey55
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10/28/2014 2:18pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2014 7:22pm
http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/280673822.html

Okay, this one really pisses me off. Charge a tax per mile traveled. The stats show that the less fuel efficient your car is, the less tax you pay compared to fuel tax that we all pay here in the US now. They are trying to sell it to the lower class people who can't afford a fuel efficient car. The proplem is that the break even point for paying the same amount in taxes is a car that gets about 15 miles per gallon.

First, show me exactly how much of my fuel taxes go to road repairs/improvements - as they should.
Second, I drive a $3,000 Ford Focus that gets 30 mpg (a poor person's car) so now all of the sudden I pay more for taxes.
Third, the rich people drive less fuel efficient cars (sports cars, large trucks, luxury cars) and will now pay less taxes.
Fourth, the electric folks, who were incentivised to buy electric, are now punished.
Fifth, we have to carry a mileage tracker that connects to the OBDII module in my car to track everywhere I go.
Sixth, my insurance company now knows exactly how far I drive per year and can raise my rates according to the tracker.

I don't get it, at all. We pay so much in taxes and have no control over how they are spent.
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APLMAN99
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10/28/2014 2:44pm
Homey55 wrote:
http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/280673822.html Okay, this one really pisses me off. Charge a tax per mile traveled. The stats show that the less fuel efficient your car is, the...
http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/280673822.html

Okay, this one really pisses me off. Charge a tax per mile traveled. The stats show that the less fuel efficient your car is, the less tax you pay compared to fuel tax that we all pay here in the US now. They are trying to sell it to the lower class people who can't afford a fuel efficient car. The proplem is that the break even point for paying the same amount in taxes is a car that gets about 15 miles per gallon.

First, show me exactly how much of my fuel taxes go to road repairs/improvements - as they should.
Second, I drive a $3,000 Ford Focus that gets 30 mpg (a poor person's car) so now all of the sudden I pay more for taxes.
Third, the rich people drive less fuel efficient cars (sports cars, large trucks, luxury cars) and will now pay less taxes.
Fourth, the electric folks, who were incentivised to buy electric, are now punished.
Fifth, we have to carry a mileage tracker that connects to the OBDII module in my car to track everywhere I go.
Sixth, my insurance company now knows exactly how far I drive per year and can raise my rates according to the tracker.

I don't get it, at all. We pay so much in taxes and have no control over how they are spent.
1). State budgets are available showing how much is spent where, but you have to be motivated enough to actually do the research.
2). How much your car costs isn't directly relevant to how much it contributes to wear and tear on the road system.
3). They may or they may not, depending on how much they drive. If those inefficient cars weren't being driven much before because of the price of fuel, they probably won't be driven a lot more with a usage fee either.
4). Punished or paying for the proportional usage of the road system? If you are being asked to help pay for the building and repair of the road system you are using, it's a bit of a stretch to call that punishment.
5). Definitely not a fan of that from a privacy issue.
6). They can't "raise your rates" off that information, but they can ask you to pay the amount you contractually agreed to. Are you currently lying to your insurance company? Lack of integrity an issue for you?


All that being said, I'm not much of a fan of the scheme but the majority of your issues are just silly/disturbing because of the reasoning involved.
Homey55
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10/28/2014 3:02pm
1) Yes, I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure all fuel tax does not go where it should.
2) The person that is proposing the law specifically argued that poor people who drive cheap cars will pay less tax. You can definitely buy a cheap car that gets better than 15 miles per gallon. Her argument is stupid.
3) The rich will pay less to drive their weekend gas guzzlers due to less MPG.
4) The Government incentivised the hybrid/electric craze to "save the environment" and now they are reverse incentivising. As much as I hate the Prius, they bought them to help the Government use less oil and feel like they were making a difference and now they will have to pay more tax per mile than before.
5) Finally, we agree!
6) I'm not lying to my insurance company. They have my home address and my work address, so the mileage is based on that. But, them having access to the tracker now creates a whole new opportunity for when you decide to take a trip outside your state or the country. It's going to open a can of worms and end up costing you and me more money for insurance.

Falcon
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10/28/2014 3:32pm
This is going to happen in California as well. How much do you want to bet that the gasoline tax will remain and we'll be doubly taxed?
Homey55
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10/28/2014 3:51pm
It won't be a double tax, it will be a new tax to pay for something else that we don't ever see.

The Shop

Falcon
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10/28/2014 5:01pm
What I meant was, we already pay gasoline tax so the roads will (supposedly) be maintained. I can almost guarantee that when the pay-per-mile thing rolls out, we will have to pay that one AND the fuel tax.
borg
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Long Beach, CA US
10/28/2014 6:22pm
Falcon wrote:
This is going to happen in California as well. How much do you want to bet that the gasoline tax will remain and we'll be doubly...
This is going to happen in California as well. How much do you want to bet that the gasoline tax will remain and we'll be doubly taxed?
The Democrats here in California can do anything they want. There is nobody to stop them. They have succeeded in making us one of the most business hostile States and are now working on making it citizen hostile.

Oh shit! I'm sorry. I just doomed the thread.
rucka356
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10/28/2014 6:28pm
I've always driven a full sized truck and paid more taxes on vehicles I've bought and gas for my vehicles. Join the freakin club and quit crying about it. You want your hybrid tax breaks and pay less than your fair share of taxes because your car does get such good gas mileage. A flat tax is the only way to make it fair for everyone. Then again I am sure that's not okay with you, you want the "rich" people driving their inefficient vehicles to pay all the taxes. Think about that statement next time you see some broke ass construction worker driving home from work in his 95 model F150 that's beat all to hell. And ask yourself, is it fair that he pays more taxes than you and you both drive the same amount of miles to and from work?
Homey55
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10/28/2014 7:00pm
rucka356 wrote:
I've always driven a full sized truck and paid more taxes on vehicles I've bought and gas for my vehicles. Join the freakin club and quit...
I've always driven a full sized truck and paid more taxes on vehicles I've bought and gas for my vehicles. Join the freakin club and quit crying about it. You want your hybrid tax breaks and pay less than your fair share of taxes because your car does get such good gas mileage. A flat tax is the only way to make it fair for everyone. Then again I am sure that's not okay with you, you want the "rich" people driving their inefficient vehicles to pay all the taxes. Think about that statement next time you see some broke ass construction worker driving home from work in his 95 model F150 that's beat all to hell. And ask yourself, is it fair that he pays more taxes than you and you both drive the same amount of miles to and from work?
My whole point is that you and I pay out our asses in taxes and this one just screws us more. I don't drive a Prius, I drive a cheap car that happens to get good gas mileage and now I will be penalized. I'm not rich. The rich people driving sports cars with bad gas mileage will pay LESS taxes while I will pay MORE taxes. If your shitty 95 f-150 gets 15 miles per gallon or worse then you have nothing to worry about until they start charging tax on gas again.
rucka356
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10/28/2014 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/28/2014 7:13pm
You're right, we do pay taxes out of our ass, the only difference is now you will pay the same as everyone else does based on how much you drive. It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, if you are using something more than somebody else than you should pay more for it. Perhaps you should go and buy a prius, maybe you can get a tax credit that will offset the additional taxes you will pay. The way I see it, it's fair. Everyone pays the same amount of tax. The increase in MPG vehicles get now is part of the reason our highway fund is empty, the tax did not evolve as vehicles became more fuel efficient.
JW381
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10/28/2014 7:20pm
Saw this today, seems absurd..
APLMAN99
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10/28/2014 7:21pm
rucka356 wrote:
I've always driven a full sized truck and paid more taxes on vehicles I've bought and gas for my vehicles. Join the freakin club and quit...
I've always driven a full sized truck and paid more taxes on vehicles I've bought and gas for my vehicles. Join the freakin club and quit crying about it. You want your hybrid tax breaks and pay less than your fair share of taxes because your car does get such good gas mileage. A flat tax is the only way to make it fair for everyone. Then again I am sure that's not okay with you, you want the "rich" people driving their inefficient vehicles to pay all the taxes. Think about that statement next time you see some broke ass construction worker driving home from work in his 95 model F150 that's beat all to hell. And ask yourself, is it fair that he pays more taxes than you and you both drive the same amount of miles to and from work?
There really isn't any way to make it "fair", of course. The closest thing would be to tax based on weight, since that's probably the most consistent contributor to road breakdown caused by vehicles. For us, studded tires are a big culprit but assessing a big fee on those wouldn't be popular because of the safety angle.
rucka356
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10/28/2014 7:26pm
I'm really not for the tax either. However, when I see these ass hat tree huggers plugging in and recharging their electric cars, and these little hybrids refilling their 10 gallon tanks, the thought does cross my mind occasionally that they are not paying their fair share. Of course this is about the time the gas pump is cutting off at 35 gallons.......
10/28/2014 7:55pm
It's stupid. It is another way to squeeze more money out of someone. If everyone started riding 50 cc gopeds that got 100 miles per gallon they would find a way to institute a Vespa tax. I don't know how much it affected their revenue but less gas is being bought so they have to make up the difference. Seems stupid to me. I could understand deisel being taxed more because those are the trucks that are really tearing up the roads but this is silly.
Homey55
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10/28/2014 7:58pm
rucka356 wrote:
I'm really not for the tax either. However, when I see these ass hat tree huggers plugging in and recharging their electric cars, and these little...
I'm really not for the tax either. However, when I see these ass hat tree huggers plugging in and recharging their electric cars, and these little hybrids refilling their 10 gallon tanks, the thought does cross my mind occasionally that they are not paying their fair share. Of course this is about the time the gas pump is cutting off at 35 gallons.......
Trust me, I'm not the ass-hat tree hugger you're picturing. I do respect the environment though, just like everyone else here does, I'm sure.
10/29/2014 7:21am Edited Date/Time 10/29/2014 7:26am
Funny, whenever a new "luxury" tax comes out or something similar that hits the wealthy in the pocket, you people argue how "fair" it is.
But.
Now we have a tax that would require people to pay for what they use in mileage driven and it's unfair because it just might cost YOU money.

I'm so sick and tired of being told that I NEED to pay more, it's kind of nice seeing others get screwed.
PalerBlue
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Essex GB
10/29/2014 7:34am
Tracking devices on every car/truck/vehicle in the "Land of the Free" who'd have thunk it?

Seriously though, a tax on gas IS a usage tax. Nobody's forced to drive anywhere. The more you drive the more you pay. If you want to drive a humungous engined truck, you pay the costs that go with it - your choice.

If you guy's let your government put tracking devices in every one of your vehicles I'll be so dissillusioned and saddened. I'll also never want to hear the word "feeedom" from any of you ever again - unless it's prefixed with "we no longer have any"............
APLMAN99
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10/29/2014 10:40am
PalerBlue wrote:
Tracking devices on every car/truck/vehicle in the "Land of the Free" who'd have thunk it? Seriously though, a tax on gas IS a usage tax. Nobody's...
Tracking devices on every car/truck/vehicle in the "Land of the Free" who'd have thunk it?

Seriously though, a tax on gas IS a usage tax. Nobody's forced to drive anywhere. The more you drive the more you pay. If you want to drive a humungous engined truck, you pay the costs that go with it - your choice.

If you guy's let your government put tracking devices in every one of your vehicles I'll be so dissillusioned and saddened. I'll also never want to hear the word "feeedom" from any of you ever again - unless it's prefixed with "we no longer have any"............
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms.......

Unless you truly believe, of course, that the vast majority of Americans absolutely MUST drive in order to go about their daily lives, make a living, feed their families, etc.

A mileage tax, based on vehicle weight also, would probably be the most equitable way of split the costs of our transportation infrastructure but there really is no good way to measure and levy these charges. A Prius driving 15K per year probably does just as much damage to the road as a Ford Focus, yet the Prius gets around 15MPG better fuel economy. Their current tax payments don't accurately reflect usage of the highway.

Manually checking mileage monthly or quarterly might sound like a decent idea but that doesn't take into account miles driven in a different jurisdiction, such as drivers from Vancouver WA who commute to Oregon and use their roads. Although we obviously already have that issue at border areas with big gas tax discrepancies anyway.

Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far.
IWreckALot
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10/29/2014 12:20pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms...
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms.......

Unless you truly believe, of course, that the vast majority of Americans absolutely MUST drive in order to go about their daily lives, make a living, feed their families, etc.

A mileage tax, based on vehicle weight also, would probably be the most equitable way of split the costs of our transportation infrastructure but there really is no good way to measure and levy these charges. A Prius driving 15K per year probably does just as much damage to the road as a Ford Focus, yet the Prius gets around 15MPG better fuel economy. Their current tax payments don't accurately reflect usage of the highway.

Manually checking mileage monthly or quarterly might sound like a decent idea but that doesn't take into account miles driven in a different jurisdiction, such as drivers from Vancouver WA who commute to Oregon and use their roads. Although we obviously already have that issue at border areas with big gas tax discrepancies anyway.

Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far.
"Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far."

This is absolutely not how it works in practice. Most new taxes create more issues. I'm dead opposed to ANY new tax. If they can't make do on the asinine amount they're making now, there's not hope for them.
Team Ideal
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10/29/2014 12:29pm
IWreckALot that's the quote of the day.
"I'm dead opposed to ANY new tax. If they can't make do on the asinine amount they're making now, there's not hope for them."

I so agree with you. more people should, time to trim this shit down not add more to it.
APLMAN99
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10/29/2014 1:39pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms...
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms.......

Unless you truly believe, of course, that the vast majority of Americans absolutely MUST drive in order to go about their daily lives, make a living, feed their families, etc.

A mileage tax, based on vehicle weight also, would probably be the most equitable way of split the costs of our transportation infrastructure but there really is no good way to measure and levy these charges. A Prius driving 15K per year probably does just as much damage to the road as a Ford Focus, yet the Prius gets around 15MPG better fuel economy. Their current tax payments don't accurately reflect usage of the highway.

Manually checking mileage monthly or quarterly might sound like a decent idea but that doesn't take into account miles driven in a different jurisdiction, such as drivers from Vancouver WA who commute to Oregon and use their roads. Although we obviously already have that issue at border areas with big gas tax discrepancies anyway.

Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far.
IWreckALot wrote:
"Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far."...
"Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far."

This is absolutely not how it works in practice. Most new taxes create more issues. I'm dead opposed to ANY new tax. If they can't make do on the asinine amount they're making now, there's not hope for them.
Hence the word "should".

I'm not a fan of having to pay more in taxes, but I'd not make such a blanket statement as being opposed to any new tax. An example would be if our local school district finally decided to build a new high school, I'd be very much in favor of that because it's very much needed. That is a tax/levy that would definitely be worthwhile for our community to impose, and I'm sure there are a few others. Unfortunately we aren't able to take the funds needed from another jurisdiction or entity to cover that.
APLMAN99
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10/29/2014 2:55pm Edited Date/Time 10/29/2014 2:56pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms...
Since you are of the mind that "nobody's forced to drive anywhere", it's hard to then argue a device tracking mileage is an infringement on freedoms.......

Unless you truly believe, of course, that the vast majority of Americans absolutely MUST drive in order to go about their daily lives, make a living, feed their families, etc.

A mileage tax, based on vehicle weight also, would probably be the most equitable way of split the costs of our transportation infrastructure but there really is no good way to measure and levy these charges. A Prius driving 15K per year probably does just as much damage to the road as a Ford Focus, yet the Prius gets around 15MPG better fuel economy. Their current tax payments don't accurately reflect usage of the highway.

Manually checking mileage monthly or quarterly might sound like a decent idea but that doesn't take into account miles driven in a different jurisdiction, such as drivers from Vancouver WA who commute to Oregon and use their roads. Although we obviously already have that issue at border areas with big gas tax discrepancies anyway.

Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far.
IWreckALot wrote:
"Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far."...
"Any tax scheme is going to have issues and any "solution " should fix more issues than it causes. This idea doesn't do that so far."

This is absolutely not how it works in practice. Most new taxes create more issues. I'm dead opposed to ANY new tax. If they can't make do on the asinine amount they're making now, there's not hope for them.
Double post....
BigAl
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10/29/2014 7:07pm
They won't stop till they have every dime you make
CR250Rider
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12/15/2014 6:08pm
It's a fact that heavy trucks do exponentially more damage to roads than light little cars, shouldn't that be reflected in the taxes taken in?
If we're going to be fair and all...

scott_nz
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12/15/2014 6:31pm
we have a milage tax here on deisel vehicles, and you pay by weight, more weight, more dollers per KM,

Deisel is less expensive at the pump due to this, but it ends up about the same, just a different way of collecting tax,

it was brought in this way as alot of poeple use deisel for other uses. ie farming and industrial ,

still, our fuel is alot more expensive than in the US,
vetmxr
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12/15/2014 7:00pm
our trucks do pay alot more road taxes than just fuel taxes, go try to license one of them
scooter5002
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12/15/2014 8:44pm
CR250Rider wrote:
It's a fact that heavy trucks do [b]exponentially[/b] more damage to roads than light little cars, shouldn't that be reflected in the taxes taken in? If...
It's a fact that heavy trucks do exponentially more damage to roads than light little cars, shouldn't that be reflected in the taxes taken in?
If we're going to be fair and all...

You obviously have NO idea how that whole truck taxation thing works, do you?
12/15/2014 8:58pm
CR250Rider wrote:
It's a fact that heavy trucks do [b]exponentially[/b] more damage to roads than light little cars, shouldn't that be reflected in the taxes taken in? If...
It's a fact that heavy trucks do exponentially more damage to roads than light little cars, shouldn't that be reflected in the taxes taken in?
If we're going to be fair and all...

You obviously have NO idea how that whole truck taxation thing works, do you?
And what is it $5 per axle to cross a toll bridge here is Ca?
12/15/2014 9:07pm
If I had a dollar for every dollar that I paid to the government throughout my life I bet I would have an extra million dollars by the time I die.
CR250Rider
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12/15/2014 9:12pm
According to a GAO study, Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford, road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to 9600 cars (p.23 of study, p.36 of PDF).

http://archive.gao.gov/f0302/109884.pdf
12/15/2014 9:18pm
CR250Rider wrote:
According to a GAO study, Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford, road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to 9600 cars...
According to a GAO study, Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford, road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to 9600 cars (p.23 of study, p.36 of PDF).

http://archive.gao.gov/f0302/109884.pdf
A lot of states blow the gas tax on other shit. Fuck them!

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