Jet skis and waverunners

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9/6/2018 8:34 AM

Borrowed a PWC yesterday and had a blast on it. Thinking about picking one up next spring. Who in here has one? Recommendations? Two stroke vs. four stroke?

Post your pics!

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9/6/2018 9:35 AM

BRP.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

9/6/2018 9:52 AM

WTF

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I have the right to remain awesome.

9/6/2018 9:57 AM

It used to be the case that Yamaha had the only true marine engine in PWCs, but that was a long time ago. (Plus, kind of a dubious statement, since Kawasaki's Jet Ski engines were really repurposed bilge pumps for large ships.) I'd be surprised if all manufacturers didn't address that in their new 4-strokes. Look for sacrificial anodes somewhere in the hull.

BRP (Sea-Doo) has dedicated cooling systems instead of using lake/ocean water for cooling. Not sure if that's a plus or a minus to be honest. They used to have a reputation for being time bombs, but again... a long time ago.

If I were buying one, I'd look at Yamaha, but that's admittedly based on old info.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

9/6/2018 11:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/6/2018 11:16 AM

I haven’t ridden one of them, but I kinda like those little SeaDoo Trixx. Looks like a fun ski. Depends what you want I guess, some of the bigger models are probably better if you plan on frequently carrying passengers.

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9/6/2018 11:17 AM

Waste of money unless you live on a lake..

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9/6/2018 11:21 AM

Is this one of those "water-quads" I've heard so much about?

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I can do anything, I'm an expert.
MotoTribology.com - Motorcycle Lubrication Education

9/6/2018 11:42 AM

I live in Arizona you either need a pool or watercraft to survive the Summers I'm on number 5 as far as Seadoos go.

The skis are 20 years old and they're two strokes, 951s twins.

On the dreamometer they clock 70 miles per hour and when you hit a bunch of wakes let's just say they can be a handful.

I would try to get a two-stroke but you have to be careful with watercraft don't buy anything that's been in saltwater I have to get back to work but if you have any more questions you can ask me later.

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9/6/2018 2:22 PM

Same with me on the Yamaha being the one back 15 to 20 years ago. There was a reason every single jetski rental in Florida only used Yamaha. Probably all good like bikes these days. I worked at a few as a young teen. I used to do the history of the islands tours and dolphin tours guiding up to 25 jet skis out of South Seas Plantation on Captiva. We would marshal the offshore powerboat races and pro national jet ski races when they came. I had a lot of years where I never wanted to see a jetski again. Lol

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I don't have to be as smart as you hope to be some day anymore. wink

9/6/2018 4:07 PM

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9/6/2018 8:06 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/6/2018 8:08 PM

Find a used stock yamaha waveblaster from 93 through 95...........buy it and you will have cramps in your jaw from smiling so hard.......they are that fun. I used to race them and now have numerous ones just for fun when its too hot to moto. You can drag the bars with endless carving and wake jumping. It does take a little skill to ride one though.....just like a bike...

The closest thing to motocross on water that you can get in my opinion. Photo

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9/6/2018 8:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/7/2018 6:13 AM

I deal with PWC's on a daily basis. You can take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but I have been dealing with them since 1999 or so. First thing is first. PWC's out of the box do not go more than 67 MPH. It is actually a 65MPH rule with a full tank of fuel and 200lb rider. It is a USCG law and all of the PWC manufacturers must abide by it. So if someone tells you it will do 75MPH...It is either tuned or they are full of it. (speedos lie big time).

What is your budget? Buying a used two stroke PWC is like buying a used ten year old 250f. But, here is a list from my years of personal experience. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING THAT IS A SALTWATER BOAT.

Sea Doo

Two Strokes

Pre '95 is a total no go.

96-97 GTX's had the 787 engine. 110hp and pretty reliable. Run about 50-52 MPH in peak condition. Will be teal or more rarely red. Watch for electrical gremlins. They made a million of them. Descent ski, but you have to realize they are over 20 years old...and have been subject to moisture for that long.

96-97 XP's had the same engine and were great skis minus bad trim motors and mild electrical gremlins. Although were only a two seater.

Any GTI, SP, HX etc. had 657's or 717 engines. IMO are not fast enough to have a good time

98-01 GTX's had the 951 engine. 140 some odd HP. Ran 54-57MPH in peak form. Same basic hull design as the older GTX's. Also made a million of these. They had them in red, blue, maroon. Same issues as the older GTX, they are just flat out getting old. Also had a two seat model called the GSX.

1997.5 GTX STAY AWAY. Had what is called the 951 white engine. First iteration of the 951, it was junk. These skis were red I believe. Regular 951's were silver...These are obviously white.

01+ RFI, DFI, and "Orbital injection" in both the 787 and 951 GTX's - STAY AWAY. These machines are Sea Doo's last ditch two stroke efforts with fuel injection. They are miserable to work on, and they do not make ECU's and parts for them anymore...Very expensive and difficult to fix and diagnose.

Four Strokes

Sea Doos run a closed loop cooling system for the engine. However, the exhaust and intercooler (when equipped) still use lake water.

Sea Doo has used the same basic engine from the start. 3 cylinder and pretty reliable. The only one they have changed is for the new 300 HP GTX.

2002-2004 Four stroke I would stay away from if possible. A few first year gremlins. Also have intake valve issues. If they are not winterized the intake valve stems rust and break. So they blow up from time to time.

2005-2009 GTI's are descent. The naturally aspirated versions are fairly reliable. But are also starting to show their age.Some early 09's had a rubber coated driveshaft that caused issues. The update kit is $400 and a bunch of work tofix.

Up to 2010 GTX, RXT, RXP These are supercharged and had the infamous "ceramic" supercharger washers that fail...and explode engines. If the supercharger was rebuilt with the update kit, there should be nothing to worry about.

2010+ GTI's are naturally aspirated available in 130 are 155 HP options. They run 55MPH or so. Reliable for the most part...Some electrical gremlins you've gotta watch out for. Faulty driveshaft was fixed after 2012.

2010+ RXT's GTX's RXP's etc. are supercharged and make 215HP. Run low to mid 60's. Superchargers are good for 100 hours before a rebuild. Then they start to lose boost and power...Not a big deal to rebuild, just takes some special tools. 2012-2016 IBR (electronic reverse) had some crappy designs.

2011-2016 GTX IS (These are the models with suspension) Made them in 255/260 HP options...Electrical nightmares. Absolutely stay away. I have personally changed 4 complete wiring harnesses in them. They will eat up your wallet and ruin your summer...fast. The suspension is great when it works...But, terrible when it breaks.

2011+ GTX, RXPX, RXP, RXT etc. These will run to the 65 MPH speed limit. Came with 255/260 HP. All different color combinations and looks. 2012-2016 skis have a piss poor electronic reverse design. These skis run great. But, as with all BRP stuff they have some serious electrical problems. If you can find a nice clean ski in this range,I would suggest it.

All newer Sea Doos run well. Sea Doo has the most "gadgets" and accessories...But, they are more expensive.

2014+ Sparks. The 60HP cheap ones will run 40MPH. They better 90HP ones will run 50MPH. They are cheap, light, and reliable. These make a good starter ski...But are pretty slow.

Yamaha

Two Strokes

97-older Stay Away. Stone cold reliable, but SLOW...Very slow. The 1100's of this era ran well...But have big time carb and crank seal issues.

Any Yamaha with a 701, 760, or 1100 two stroke I would stay away. 701 and 760's are great engines...just slow and outdated.

1998-2002ish GP 1200 and 1300's. These were two stroke triples. Electric powervalves. Run low to mid 50's. Made great power. Reliable for the most part. They have a catalytic converter that caused issues. They make a by pass kit. If these machines need carb work, it is a disaster. The expansion chamber has to come off...And it is a job and a half. The carbs must work perfect or they burn down the rear cylinder. The 1300 was fuel injected, and was black and gold. Only fuel injected two stroke I would recommend.

1998-2002 GP 800's. Same setup as the previous 1200's just in a twin. Same setup with hard to reach carbs. Run 50 or so.

Four Strokes

2005-2015ish VX, VX Delux, VX Cruiser...anything with a VX. These are base models. Stone cold reliable. Use and 1100cc four stroke, four cylinder. Only run mid 43-45 MPH Cable operated, simple reverse. As bullet proof a PWC gets.

2005-2015ish FX, FX, FX140, anything with an FX. These are a step up to the VX. 140HP and will run 50 MPHish. Same story as the VX...Great ski and highly recommended.

2009-2016ish VXS, FX SHO, VXR. 1.8 liter naturally aspirated. Rock solid as well. Run middle 50's. Highly recommend these...No known issues.

2009-2016is FXS, FXSHO, VXR, FZS. 1.8 liter supercharged. Reliable, fast, and nice hull. These will run close to the 65MPH limit.

All 2017+ Yamahas are great.

Kawasaki

Two Strokes


Pre 97 is a no go. Too slow and dated.

1998-2002 STX 900 and 1100. I would suggest staying away. These were three cylinder two strokes. 900 and 100 shared the same block. Will run 47-54MPH. They came with a Keihin CV carburetor that is a massive pain in the ass. Expensive to fix, and hard to dial in correctly. These machines also had crank seal issues.

1999-2005 Ultra 130 Or 150. Great power and fun hull. Same issues as the 1100's

Four Strokes

2002-2018 STX 15f (12f from 2002-2008). Rock solid and simple machines. Use either a 1500cc or 1200cc four cylinder. 15f's will run 55-57. These are also a great buy, come in a huge variety of colors. They are relatively unchanged till today.

2009+ Ultra LX. Basically a 15f with a larger more comfy hull design..Same engine. Also a good buy.

2008+ Ultra 250, Ultra 260, Ultra 300, Ultra 310. These are the supercharged versions. Will run to the 65MPH limit. Reliable and as simple as they get for the big HP boats. Same hull design from 08+.

Honda

2002-2003 Stay away. ECU and turbo issues

2004-2006 F12, F12X, etc. I suggest not buying a Honda. I have put more than a dozen ECU's in them over the last few years. ECU's are $1000 a piece. The machines will go into a limp mode, and there is no way to by pass them. The ECU (or PGM as Honda calls them) has power 24/7...and they do not last. The "X" versions are turbo's. Make some descent power...But, suffer from turbo lag. They run close to 60 MPH. Hondas will be a money pit.

Tigershark-Stay away

Polaris-Stay Away

If you have any machines you are interested in, post them up. I will let you know what I think. There are many more models I did not list..But these are the popular ones.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

9/6/2018 8:47 PM

Damn, that's some good info Bob

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9/7/2018 5:10 AM

peelout wrote: Photo

the original panty dropper!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"Shifting gears and passing queers" GL

9/7/2018 5:33 AM

Sea-Doo's have "explosive" power.

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9/7/2018 7:38 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/7/2018 7:51 AM

vetmxr wrote:

Find a used stock yamaha waveblaster from 93 through 95...........buy it and you will have cramps in your jaw from smiling so ...more

They are all lake lice, but for the small ponds too small for a boat, this was more moto.

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My post is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, I'm OK with it.

9/7/2018 8:01 AM

I have a wave blaster and they take some practice to ride so its not boring like the big sea couch's . It is a buyers market and I am into mine for cheap so the few times I do ride it a year I don't feel like a bag of money with a hole in it sitting in the garage. Lots of fun when not riding MX or snowmobiles or shifter karts. Photo

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Ed Johnson

9/7/2018 8:32 AM

^ Whats that "seat" even for? Crushing Colorado Kool-Aids between motos?

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

9/7/2018 9:04 AM

Stuntman949 wrote:

^ Whats that "seat" even for? Crushing Colorado Kool-Aids between motos?

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My post is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, I'm OK with it.

9/7/2018 9:49 AM

This was my SX-R 800 before I sold it. I had it down to 295.6 lbs with a splash of fuel in it. If any of you know, stock SX-R’s are in the 370 range....needless to say it went on a diet.


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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

9/7/2018 9:51 AM

It’s funny, this popped up on my Facebook as being 5 years ago, today.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

9/7/2018 10:46 AM

THe 4 strokes are so much better in these. Spark Trixx are an absolute blast and under $10K.

There's a reason Sea-Doo is consistently 60-80% market share. They're just that good

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


9/7/2018 10:58 AM

bh84 wrote:

THe 4 strokes are so much better in these. Spark Trixx are an absolute blast and under $10K.

There's a reason Sea-Doo is ...more

Well yes and no to the Sea Doos. I agree they make great machines, but they also have the most issues....by far. 12 out of the 19 four strokes currently at our shop are Sea Doo's. Some issues are inflicted by the user. Most are in for electrical issues, namely the reverse gate hanging up. An '09 Doo came in Tuesday with an exploded rear cylinder, something you do not see every day, as the engines are usually rock solid.

There is no denying the reliability of the Yamaha's on the water, in my experience anyway. Sea Doo brings a bunch of cool features and great engines, but they also bring the most issues.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

9/7/2018 2:07 PM

Thanks for the info Bob! I was thinking when the time comes I'm leaning Yamaha just based on good experiences with their motorcycles. Budget probably in the $3000 used range. The one I'm borrowing now is a Seadoo GTI, maybe a 2002-05? Two stroke twin.

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9/7/2018 3:00 PM

mxdude105 wrote:

Thanks for the info Bob! I was thinking when the time comes I'm leaning Yamaha just based on good experiences with their ...more

$3K should get you a descent VX or FX in the 06-09 range. They are great skis and as as bullet proof as it gets.If you wait until late fall/winter you can really get the prices down...Do not wait until spring if possible, everyone puts a big price tag on when the weather gets warm. 200 hours is nothing on the engines. Bring a flashlight with you and look at the pump. Just look for obvious dings in the prop or pump housing. Props are relatively cheap, but pumps can get pricey.

If you find one you are interested in shoot me an e-mail bob@hlpowersports.com. I will take a look at it for you.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

9/7/2018 3:20 PM

I would recommend a Yamaha Superjet... actually surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet.

stand up skis are the way to go IMO.

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9/7/2018 3:23 PM

George Costanza wrote:

I would recommend a Yamaha Superjet... actually surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet.

stand up skis are the way to go IMO.

...more

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9/7/2018 6:04 PM

George Costanza wrote:

I would recommend a Yamaha Superjet... actually surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet.

stand up skis are the way to go IMO.

...more

I do love stand ups, and raced them for years, but to ride one aggressively around buoys would destroy my energy levels and within a few minutes i would be just hanging on for dear life.....

They are the most core thing for sure, but riding one aggressively takes youth....fitness, and a perma-cramp in your lower back from attacking the water........

My first stand up was a full mod Butch's kawi 550........talk about a sketchy setup.....they have come a long ways since then......alot faster too.....

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9/8/2018 12:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/8/2018 12:07 AM

George Costanza wrote:

I would recommend a Yamaha Superjet... actually surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet.

stand up skis are the way to go IMO.

...more

There are many variables in that:
1) Age
2) Wife, G/F, kids, are they going to sit on the beach and watch you or do you want them to be able to ride with you?
3) Size of lake
4) do you like to go on longer rides where you can take supplies like, drinks and food or do you just like to Bunny Hop just outside the no wake zone? grin
5) Range my Seadoo holds 15 gallons.
But just like what's going on with the street bike thread where couple guys are haters and find no joy in riding them.

I have the same answer it's all about the destination and how much fun you have getting there if it wasn't for my Seadoo I could not get to the areas shown here not even a boat you would have to jump out and drag it.

So yeah during the brutal Arizona Summers I could either be here having fun drinking an ice-cold brewski, or sitting at home on the couch watching The Boob Tube....unsure

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9/8/2018 12:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/8/2018 8:45 AM

BobPA wrote:

I deal with PWC's on a daily basis. You can take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but I have been dealing with them ...more

Some very good info there Bob I have to agree with probably everything you said.

I've had five Seadoos in my time the first one being a 1990 580 SP
95 720cc XP
97 800cc GSX ( Great ski)
All those I bought new and never had any major issues with them just minor stuff that I was able to repair.

Then I found these two 98, 951cc on a double trailer from someone in the dirt bike club I was with.
His wife got them in a divorce and put them out in a parking lot with a cover that did not do a very good job.

Anyway I thought I was getting a good deal on them but ended up having to fix a lot of stuff including 2 engine rebuilds later on down the road but now they run flawlessly and I took care of the exterior as well.

For 20 year old skis they do the job just fine.
I got the specs for the jetting kit and did it myself which really helped out.
replaced the crappy fuel lines ( that caused a lot of engine failures ) and also installed flame arrestors and got rid of the restrictive water box that sucked water. Did this on both skis.

The top speed on the GTXL 3 seater is usually 64 on the dreamometer

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Little Red shown here displays 70 miles per hour on the dreamometer.
I haven't put a GPS on it but I imagine it's probably more like 65- 66 or so.

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The thing with a two-seater is because it's so light and the hull is not that large.
It is great on glassy water but you start hitting some pretty good size wakes at speed and it can be a handful.

Where the three seater just plows through it.

Same with the four strokes, they are much bigger and heavier boats and they just plow through the chop something to consider for the older folks.

Where my GSXL is like a bucking bronco when I was younger I used to really like it as it would help keep me in shape but now it just beats the hell out of me, that's why I actually put in some thick foam footwells (not installed in photo) that I got from whyz here on the forum.

I redid the seat and made it much plusher as the previous one the sun had beat the foam into hard like a brick,
It helps a lot when you're 60 years old....unsure

I'm already starting to think about a pontoon boat so I can take the barbecue and the dog...

So yeah lesson learned if you take care of your stuff you usually get good results but if you buy something used you never know how the previous owner took care of it. This is especially true with watercraft due to corrosion.

One of the first things I do when looking at a jet ski is look at the bottom of the hull, if it's all ground up from being Beached than the owner obviously did not care.
I use an anchor whenever possible

Also grab a flashlight and look in the pump at the prop if it's all nicked up that means he's been sucking up rocks not a good sign either.



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