International polytits/issues?

ToolMaker
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12/22/2017 10:32am Edited Date/Time 12/28/2017 1:08pm
Germany is now worried that many investment dollars and jobs will shift to the US due to the new tax rate?
The new tax rate for corporations is now lower than Germany (where we were higher before) but more in
line with the rest of Europe. Per the Deutsche Handlsblatt,

"German economists are warning that the tax overhaul bill that now awaits the signature of President Donald Trump will mean that “significant amounts of new investment and jobs will shift from Europe to the United States,” according to the German business news publication Handelsblatt.
The United States has had a much higher tax rate for businesses than Germany and most of Europe. Under the tax reform bill, the corporate rate in the U.S. will fall to 21 percent, lower than the estimated 28.2 percent effective rate in Germany and close to the European average of 20.9 percent."

So do any of your companies plan on expanding investment directly because of the new tax plan
that they otherwise would not have?
TM
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APLMAN99
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12/22/2017 10:55am
I think that there are going to be lots of window dressings and displays to try to alter impressions of the effects of the rate changes.

A good example is the bonus announcements from AT&T, BofA, etc. to occur before the first of the year. Many of the bonuses are similar to previous bonuses, but they are sped up to take advantage of the tax savings of making the expenditure at the current tax rate, rather than the lower tax rate they would be using by making these bonus payments early next year. It'll be interesting to see if some of these companies end up "deducting" these $1000 payments from their usual bonus payments that would normally take place in the spring after year end accounting is computed and bonus formulas finalized.

I think that overall, in some cases the lower tax rate could result in more spending for some companies or sectors. I also think that in some cases it will result in less, as it could encourage saving money rather than spending because there is less inventive to offset income with expenses due to the lower tax rate.

Time will obviously tell, and there are so many variables involved that even 20 years from now someone will probably be able to make a decent argument either way on this plan's effectiveness..........
Titan1
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12/22/2017 11:09am
Business want to make as much money as possible, by making as much and spending as little as possible...that includes taxes.

That means business will have their headquarters and so their manufacturing in the location with the lowest taxes. It’s not hard to figure out.
12/22/2017 11:10am
So even if they are deducting it, so what ? How does that affect me? If I’m an ATT employee the company benefits and I get $1000 in my pocket. How is that BAD?
Hut
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12/22/2017 11:18am
Just a side note. The CWA negotiated the bonus with AT&T. Before the tax cuts even passed they were asking for $4000 to take advantage of the savings from the tax cuts.

The Shop

ToolMaker
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12/22/2017 11:19am
Good points to consider. I personally believe that companies want to make more money. In order to do that they have to do more business. If it's cheaper to do business here, they will, if it's not, they won't. Tax rates all by them self are not the deciding issue. A big component, but again not the deciding issue. Relaxing the regulations to do business are huge.
I think things need to be safe and we need to monitor that but with all the information exchange going on between employees over social media, I think it's a lot harder for companies to hide things like they used to. In the past, I made machines that automate processes that people did. However, it has been my experience that after implementing the machines the workers were not laid off but put to work at other tasks as it enabled the company to grow.
TM
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12/22/2017 11:32am
ToolMaker wrote:
Good points to consider. I personally believe that companies want to make more money. In order to do that they have to do more business. If...
Good points to consider. I personally believe that companies want to make more money. In order to do that they have to do more business. If it's cheaper to do business here, they will, if it's not, they won't. Tax rates all by them self are not the deciding issue. A big component, but again not the deciding issue. Relaxing the regulations to do business are huge.
I think things need to be safe and we need to monitor that but with all the information exchange going on between employees over social media, I think it's a lot harder for companies to hide things like they used to. In the past, I made machines that automate processes that people did. However, it has been my experience that after implementing the machines the workers were not laid off but put to work at other tasks as it enabled the company to grow.
TM
It doesnt matter what the machine to person ratio is, increased manufacturing on US soil is a good thing. There is a huge knowledge base that is lost when manufacturing goes to other countries. Logical policies on mamy fronts that promote this need to be adopted.
12/22/2017 12:56pm
early wrote:
It doesnt matter what the machine to person ratio is, increased manufacturing on US soil is a good thing. There is a huge knowledge base that...
It doesnt matter what the machine to person ratio is, increased manufacturing on US soil is a good thing. There is a huge knowledge base that is lost when manufacturing goes to other countries. Logical policies on mamy fronts that promote this need to be adopted.
Does s company being 'based' in the US mean the manufacturing/jobs are carried out in the US?
ToolMaker
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12/22/2017 1:15pm
early wrote:
It doesnt matter what the machine to person ratio is, increased manufacturing on US soil is a good thing. There is a huge knowledge base that...
It doesnt matter what the machine to person ratio is, increased manufacturing on US soil is a good thing. There is a huge knowledge base that is lost when manufacturing goes to other countries. Logical policies on mamy fronts that promote this need to be adopted.
When we manufacture here it evolves into other things. It's not just the widgets that you make but you spend money on all sorts of other things in the community. Whether it be soap to wash hands for the employees or signs to display your products. Your employees need places to live, cars to drive, food to eat.
TM
ToolMaker
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12/22/2017 1:19pm
Does s company being 'based' in the US mean the manufacturing/jobs are carried out in the US?
While that would be the goal. We know that's not realistic for all companies.
TM
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12/22/2017 1:33pm
ToolMaker wrote:
When we manufacture here it evolves into other things. It's not just the widgets that you make but you spend money on all sorts of other...
When we manufacture here it evolves into other things. It's not just the widgets that you make but you spend money on all sorts of other things in the community. Whether it be soap to wash hands for the employees or signs to display your products. Your employees need places to live, cars to drive, food to eat.
TM
Yup. Not to mention cleaner practices, and lower shipping fuel volumes spent to keep a cleaner planet.
SCR
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12/22/2017 2:26pm
Does s company being 'based' in the US mean the manufacturing/jobs are carried out in the US?
ToolMaker wrote:
While that would be the goal. We know that's not realistic for all companies.
TM
Either way the taxes are paid here.
12/22/2017 3:14pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2017 3:16pm
I think our economy will yield more automation. So that is gonna start shifting for a more skilled labor force again. (To maintain all the automated machines that will constantly wear out and break down) instead of ford employees being directly on the line i think they will be in quality control and maintenance. and maintenance will require skilled apprenticeships. Time will tell.

Robots still need programming. Controllers, Maintenance technicians and continuous r&d.
RMT
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12/22/2017 8:24pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2017 8:28pm
What does a tax rate even mean when you have write offs that lower it? It could be 90% but companies like AT&T would still have deductions and end up paying 10% if even that.

I hope It works, I really do but I just feel like we are going in circles. If we were told we need to invade Iran tomorrow to stop the evil doers and the people of the country would rise up and accept democracy would you believe it? Or would you think we are just securing the oil fields for BP and Exxon and soon ISIS or a civil war would break out and things would be worse. Same with taxes, lower the job creators taxes and the trickle down will help everyone. Thing is, it never has after the short uptick. Corporations start buying back stock and only the large stockholders reap the benifits. Maybe this time is different, we can only hope.
Prntscrn
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12/23/2017 1:27am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2017 8:33am
I think our economy will yield more automation. So that is gonna start shifting for a more skilled labor force again. (To maintain all the automated...
I think our economy will yield more automation. So that is gonna start shifting for a more skilled labor force again. (To maintain all the automated machines that will constantly wear out and break down) instead of ford employees being directly on the line i think they will be in quality control and maintenance. and maintenance will require skilled apprenticeships. Time will tell.

Robots still need programming. Controllers, Maintenance technicians and continuous r&d.
Without being in the known I think it's happening right now. Industry 4.0 has been going on for a while so it's most likely just a matter of time. They have already testad it with loading ships etc
kkawboy14
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12/23/2017 12:27pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2017 1:16pm
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
ToolMaker
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12/23/2017 1:44pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year. People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness...
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
Just read Aus is also scared the new tax rates will shrink their economy. We've heard a lot from the nay sayers that this is a gift for the wealthy. The problem is, if 10% pay 90% of the taxes, How could you not give them a cut? Regardless, while everyone wants to keep more of their money paying less taxes, if and when there are more jobs there will be less people to fill them. The result will be companies offering higher wages to fill the positions. I strongly believe we will see a significant rise in pay coming.
kkawboy14
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12/23/2017 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2017 2:17pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year. People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness...
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
ToolMaker wrote:
Just read Aus is also scared the new tax rates will shrink their economy. We've heard a lot from the nay sayers that this is a...
Just read Aus is also scared the new tax rates will shrink their economy. We've heard a lot from the nay sayers that this is a gift for the wealthy. The problem is, if 10% pay 90% of the taxes, How could you not give them a cut? Regardless, while everyone wants to keep more of their money paying less taxes, if and when there are more jobs there will be less people to fill them. The result will be companies offering higher wages to fill the positions. I strongly believe we will see a significant rise in pay coming.
The people talking about it being for the wealthy are saying that because they have nothing else to say. There was 2 choices, staying status quo, watching jobs and money walk out of the country, raising taxes and continuing to be a services country, with the debt being increased 1 trillion dollars a year over the past 8 years.

So now this year, 1,000,000 less people getting food stamps, cut the federal payroll this year by $500 million, made it easier to do business, letting people keep more of their own money (it is the rich people’s money also), developers can actually develop stuff now, cut immigration effectively creating competition for jobs now that there is less people to compete for the jobs....... (the national debt has already slowed down in 1 year but they are crying about $1.5 trillion raise over 10 years with the tax reduction)

and they yell “HES ONLY HELPING THE RICH” these people look stupid now and they are about to look more stupid next year!

My daughters aren’t rich, they work for me and my son in law, with a stroke of a pen, they got a $5000 raise next year each
Motoxdoc
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12/23/2017 4:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2017 5:25pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year. People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness...
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has as many bankruptcies as Trump. His credit got so bad that no legit banks would give him a loan (I'm in serious debt and even I have multiple banks offering me loans everyday); he had to turn to our sworn enemy for financial help...RUSSIA!

Yeah, I live in a rich area where a lot of people are going to be able to save more money than ever with this tax plan (that is take it out of circulation and bank it). However, If you listen to what the majority of economists are saying about this redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, it's hard to expect anything good coming out of this, TRILLION DOLLAR + deficit tax plan, for the rest of the country.

A border entry fee from Mexico? Mexico only? What...to pay for the wall? LOL, normally I'd say you're nuts; but in this day and age of an overtly racist president.....nothing would surprise me.
Motoxdoc
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12/23/2017 4:28pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
The people talking about it being for the wealthy are saying that because they have nothing else to say. There was 2 choices, staying status quo...
The people talking about it being for the wealthy are saying that because they have nothing else to say. There was 2 choices, staying status quo, watching jobs and money walk out of the country, raising taxes and continuing to be a services country, with the debt being increased 1 trillion dollars a year over the past 8 years.

So now this year, 1,000,000 less people getting food stamps, cut the federal payroll this year by $500 million, made it easier to do business, letting people keep more of their own money (it is the rich people’s money also), developers can actually develop stuff now, cut immigration effectively creating competition for jobs now that there is less people to compete for the jobs....... (the national debt has already slowed down in 1 year but they are crying about $1.5 trillion raise over 10 years with the tax reduction)

and they yell “HES ONLY HELPING THE RICH” these people look stupid now and they are about to look more stupid next year!

My daughters aren’t rich, they work for me and my son in law, with a stroke of a pen, they got a $5000 raise next year each
I watch FOX news too!
kkawboy14
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12/24/2017 6:55am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2017 6:55am
kkawboy14 wrote:
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year. People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness...
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
Motoxdoc wrote:
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has...
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has as many bankruptcies as Trump. His credit got so bad that no legit banks would give him a loan (I'm in serious debt and even I have multiple banks offering me loans everyday); he had to turn to our sworn enemy for financial help...RUSSIA!

Yeah, I live in a rich area where a lot of people are going to be able to save more money than ever with this tax plan (that is take it out of circulation and bank it). However, If you listen to what the majority of economists are saying about this redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, it's hard to expect anything good coming out of this, TRILLION DOLLAR + deficit tax plan, for the rest of the country.

A border entry fee from Mexico? Mexico only? What...to pay for the wall? LOL, normally I'd say you're nuts; but in this day and age of an overtly racist president.....nothing would surprise me.
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta.

Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the rules in the middle of the real estate game, I have friends that were forced into bankruptcy for the same reasons. Other bankruptcy he had were for taking over failed businesses trying to bring them around and it didn’t work. Some bankruptcy were for bad decisions, all of those things give him a pretty broad understanding of business and the power government wields to create and destroy in the business world.

Have you ever looked at the bankruptcies and business successes Bush had?

How about Obama’s business success?

I don’t vote, I made more money under Obama than I’ve ever made! Mainly because of all the free money that was funneled into the Auto industry.....my success was to the tune of the deficit going up $1 trillion a year tho! Since I don’t vote I just want to know what are the new rules this year, so I can do my best to live by the new rules. The new rules this year are a lot less than years past.
12/24/2017 7:24am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2017 7:43am
kkawboy14 wrote:
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year. People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness...
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
Motoxdoc wrote:
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has...
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has as many bankruptcies as Trump. His credit got so bad that no legit banks would give him a loan (I'm in serious debt and even I have multiple banks offering me loans everyday); he had to turn to our sworn enemy for financial help...RUSSIA!

Yeah, I live in a rich area where a lot of people are going to be able to save more money than ever with this tax plan (that is take it out of circulation and bank it). However, If you listen to what the majority of economists are saying about this redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, it's hard to expect anything good coming out of this, TRILLION DOLLAR + deficit tax plan, for the rest of the country.

A border entry fee from Mexico? Mexico only? What...to pay for the wall? LOL, normally I'd say you're nuts; but in this day and age of an overtly racist president.....nothing would surprise me.
...Formerly contained clicked material...
ToolMaker
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12/24/2017 7:30am
kkawboy14 wrote:
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year. People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness...
It is gonna be insane what the US economy does next year.
People may not like Trumps personality but he is killin it in the bidness end of things.
100% write off next year for equipment, I will purchase about 200,000 of equipment in January just to upgrade to better stuff. And save about $40,000 in tax dollars.
The more stuff people buy the more reved up things get, the more cash people get the more they will spend.

My guess is next year will see import taxes into America raised, a border entry fee from Mexico and a federal tax increase on fuel (especially if they can bring gas prices down with the regs in that world being reduced now)

It’s gonna be a good year to be in business
Motoxdoc wrote:
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has...
I hope you are right but at this point he is the biggest business failure I know of! I don't know of anyone else that has as many bankruptcies as Trump. His credit got so bad that no legit banks would give him a loan (I'm in serious debt and even I have multiple banks offering me loans everyday); he had to turn to our sworn enemy for financial help...RUSSIA!

Yeah, I live in a rich area where a lot of people are going to be able to save more money than ever with this tax plan (that is take it out of circulation and bank it). However, If you listen to what the majority of economists are saying about this redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich, it's hard to expect anything good coming out of this, TRILLION DOLLAR + deficit tax plan, for the rest of the country.

A border entry fee from Mexico? Mexico only? What...to pay for the wall? LOL, normally I'd say you're nuts; but in this day and age of an overtly racist president.....nothing would surprise me.
Were those personal bankruptcies or for the corporations he controlled? There is a big difference.
I know a lot of wealthy folks and many of the uber wealthy ones don't put their own money at risk.
Once people have a track record of making stellar profits other people beg for the privilege to ride
their coat tails on the next project. Is everyone perfect and never looses money? No. But also consider
many projects take years to go from inception to finish and economic environments change during
that time. Not every project will be a success.
Also, the projects have to be evaluated as individual projects not just "Trump" did this.
In contrast he did become a Billionaire along the way and made a lot of other people money too.
Yes many people lost money but they only put their money at risk because he was successful.
TM
ToolMaker
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12/24/2017 12:15pm
So, we should more focus on the tax cuts, vs Trump as this thread will go into deep abyss right quick otherwise
TM
avidchimp
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12/24/2017 2:27pm
Are "polytits" the same as fake tits? Asking for a friend... Laughing
kzizok
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12/24/2017 3:09pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta. Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the...
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta.

Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the rules in the middle of the real estate game, I have friends that were forced into bankruptcy for the same reasons. Other bankruptcy he had were for taking over failed businesses trying to bring them around and it didn’t work. Some bankruptcy were for bad decisions, all of those things give him a pretty broad understanding of business and the power government wields to create and destroy in the business world.

Have you ever looked at the bankruptcies and business successes Bush had?

How about Obama’s business success?

I don’t vote, I made more money under Obama than I’ve ever made! Mainly because of all the free money that was funneled into the Auto industry.....my success was to the tune of the deficit going up $1 trillion a year tho! Since I don’t vote I just want to know what are the new rules this year, so I can do my best to live by the new rules. The new rules this year are a lot less than years past.
Why don’t you vote?
kkawboy14
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12/25/2017 7:46am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta. Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the...
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta.

Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the rules in the middle of the real estate game, I have friends that were forced into bankruptcy for the same reasons. Other bankruptcy he had were for taking over failed businesses trying to bring them around and it didn’t work. Some bankruptcy were for bad decisions, all of those things give him a pretty broad understanding of business and the power government wields to create and destroy in the business world.

Have you ever looked at the bankruptcies and business successes Bush had?

How about Obama’s business success?

I don’t vote, I made more money under Obama than I’ve ever made! Mainly because of all the free money that was funneled into the Auto industry.....my success was to the tune of the deficit going up $1 trillion a year tho! Since I don’t vote I just want to know what are the new rules this year, so I can do my best to live by the new rules. The new rules this year are a lot less than years past.
kzizok wrote:
Why don’t you vote?
1) it’s a waste of the walk there, imho

2) other reasons but I’m not going to go into it here.
Motoxdoc
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12/25/2017 1:10pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta. Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the...
Delta Airlines has filed more bankruptcies than Trump, I don’t here people complaining about Delta.

Trump was forced into some bankruptcies because the government changed the rules in the middle of the real estate game, I have friends that were forced into bankruptcy for the same reasons. Other bankruptcy he had were for taking over failed businesses trying to bring them around and it didn’t work. Some bankruptcy were for bad decisions, all of those things give him a pretty broad understanding of business and the power government wields to create and destroy in the business world.

Have you ever looked at the bankruptcies and business successes Bush had?

How about Obama’s business success?

I don’t vote, I made more money under Obama than I’ve ever made! Mainly because of all the free money that was funneled into the Auto industry.....my success was to the tune of the deficit going up $1 trillion a year tho! Since I don’t vote I just want to know what are the new rules this year, so I can do my best to live by the new rules. The new rules this year are a lot less than years past.
Delta Airlines....well there you go, that makes it OK then! However, I still stand by my statement. Again, I don't know of anyone else that has had as many bankruptcies as Trump. I don't mean corporations. I mean single individual bankruptcies. I'm not saying there ISN'T anyone with more bankruptcies....he's just the person I know with the most.

"what are the new rules this year"Huh .....The best I can help you with THAT is: 1)No more semis 2)For 3 rounds they are moving to a 3 main format. 3)They're going to have 2 east/west 250 showdowns. Really, the rest is out there, you can find it.
Motoxdoc
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12/25/2017 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 12/25/2017 1:29pm
ToolMaker wrote:
Were those personal bankruptcies or for the corporations he controlled? There is a big difference. I know a lot of wealthy folks and many of the...
Were those personal bankruptcies or for the corporations he controlled? There is a big difference.
I know a lot of wealthy folks and many of the uber wealthy ones don't put their own money at risk.
Once people have a track record of making stellar profits other people beg for the privilege to ride
their coat tails on the next project. Is everyone perfect and never looses money? No. But also consider
many projects take years to go from inception to finish and economic environments change during
that time. Not every project will be a success.
Also, the projects have to be evaluated as individual projects not just "Trump" did this.
In contrast he did become a Billionaire along the way and made a lot of other people money too.
Yes many people lost money but they only put their money at risk because he was successful.
TM
Personal or corporation....that doesn't matter to me. He has the most bankruptcies attached to his name than anyone else I know of.

"Once people have a track record of making stellar profits other people beg for the privilege to ride
their coat tails on the next project."...........This is true. This IS NOT true about Trump! Around the world, people can't strip his name off their buildings quick enough. He's such a failure in business that no legit banks will give him a loan. LOL, Why do you think he has this noose tightening around his neck right now?

I believe if he were a legit billionaire he's too narcissistic to not show us his tax returns to prove it. There's a reason he's the first President in almost 50 years to not show us his finances....and none of us know what that reason is.........YET!

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