How to get the economy going

P
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Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 3:00am
What should be done and what would the results of doing so be? No simple responses of "cut taxes" or "stop spending." Give me some details.


P
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lostboy819
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9/27/2011 2:56pm
Out with Obama and in with pretty much anyone else, the guy is a total mess and all over the place.
Cygnus
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9/27/2011 2:57pm
Drop the price of gas to under 2.00 a gallon for a start.
P
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9/27/2011 2:57pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Out with Obama and in with pretty much anyone else, the guy is a total mess and all over the place.
Come on dude, get serious. Be specific and give some details. "Get that guy out and someone else in" doesn't cut it.


P
P
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9/27/2011 2:58pm
Cygnus wrote:
Drop the price of gas to under 2.00 a gallon for a start.
The government is suppose to do that?


P

The Shop

jtomasik
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9/27/2011 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2011 3:14pm
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of the DEA) and our legal system, as well as stop all drug-related aid to all foreign countries.

2. New foreign policy of non-intervention unless an immediate threat to the sovereignty of the US. Removal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. No exceptions. Back this by an immediate institution of the draft for EVERYONE aged 18-35, no exceptions, and all politicians immediate family members must serve on the front lines of military action is ever used, even without the declaration of war. Roll back of foreign bases and re-deployment at our borders.

3. Removal of the Fed and Central banks. Distribute cash directly from the government, with no interest loans to consumers and businesses who have a credit rating of 730 and above. Use the IRS as the collection agency (if you default, your wages are immediately garnished), the GAO to track the loans. Small banks will still stay in business, competing for those who need loans but have bad credit.

4. Nationalize health care for EVERYONE.

5. National sales tax replaces all income tax.
borg
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9/27/2011 3:22pm
What the Federal government can do for a better economy:
1. Dump the failed notion that the Federal government can fix it.
2. Start looking at what government does to hinder it and get rid of it.
3. Stop this idiotic volleyball game that government plays with taxes and regulation.
4. Stop taxing corporations and businesses.
P
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9/27/2011 3:27pm
borg wrote:
What the Federal government can do for a better economy: 1. Dump the failed notion that the Federal government can fix it. 2. Start looking at...
What the Federal government can do for a better economy:
1. Dump the failed notion that the Federal government can fix it.
2. Start looking at what government does to hinder it and get rid of it.
3. Stop this idiotic volleyball game that government plays with taxes and regulation.
4. Stop taxing corporations and businesses.
Results of each of your suggestions? Specific results good and bad.


P
FastEddy
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., FL US
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9/27/2011 3:42pm
Do you think the problem is people/businesses etc.. are just not spending?
Titan1
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9/27/2011 4:03pm
They should send every American a Check for $500.

They should pay people $4000 for their $500 P.O.S. cars.

They should give wall street and the auto makers $100's of billions of dollars...


Oh, wait...never mind.
borg
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9/27/2011 4:22pm
borg wrote:
What the Federal government can do for a better economy: 1. Dump the failed notion that the Federal government can fix it. 2. Start looking at...
What the Federal government can do for a better economy:
1. Dump the failed notion that the Federal government can fix it.
2. Start looking at what government does to hinder it and get rid of it.
3. Stop this idiotic volleyball game that government plays with taxes and regulation.
4. Stop taxing corporations and businesses.
P wrote:
Results of each of your suggestions? Specific results good and bad.


P
1. The government's attempts at "jump starting" the economy with borrowed stimulus, bastardizes the private sector economy by picking winners and losers. (GM, Solyndra, ect. I prefer that the consumers pick the winners and losers making the overall economy more efficient. Plus the money has to be extracted from future taxpayers in the form if interest payments which are also a drag on the economy.

2. Here in California, the Air Resources Board through local enforcers, have driven away most of the blue collar manufacturing jobs. Those are the jobs that highschool grads used to use to enter the middle class. Now we can see Mt. Wilson every day from the unemployment line. They went too far and were too gestapo like. That's just one example. Overzealous regulating.

3. Every time we get a new party in the white house, they start by wanting to fuck with the tax code. It creates uncertainty for the people who do create jobs.

4. Businesses do not pay taxes, they collect them. Government, and especially Democrats, like to use this method for gaining revenue because it's an easy way to tax their own base without their realizing it. It also makes our businesses less competitive with over seas competition. In some cases it compels companies to move overseas, taking the jobs with them.
motosmith
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9/27/2011 4:36pm
Cut government to about 50% of what it's current size is.
Mod Killer
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9/27/2011 5:11pm
jtomasik wrote:
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of...
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of the DEA) and our legal system, as well as stop all drug-related aid to all foreign countries.

2. New foreign policy of non-intervention unless an immediate threat to the sovereignty of the US. Removal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. No exceptions. Back this by an immediate institution of the draft for EVERYONE aged 18-35, no exceptions, and all politicians immediate family members must serve on the front lines of military action is ever used, even without the declaration of war. Roll back of foreign bases and re-deployment at our borders.

3. Removal of the Fed and Central banks. Distribute cash directly from the government, with no interest loans to consumers and businesses who have a credit rating of 730 and above. Use the IRS as the collection agency (if you default, your wages are immediately garnished), the GAO to track the loans. Small banks will still stay in business, competing for those who need loans but have bad credit.

4. Nationalize health care for EVERYONE.

5. National sales tax replaces all income tax.
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick.


the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on ur list.

a) i dont see where the money is gonna come from
b) i dont see why obesity, smoking related issues, and cancer (that comes from well known products we use every day) should be the tax payers burden
c) while were at it, should we nationalize food care for EVERYONE? autocare? etc etc etc.
d) healthcare is bad for our species. that may sound bad, but its the truth. it keeps the worst our genetics have to offer, alive and procreating. and health certainly isnt a birthright. it isnt in any other form of nature, i dont understand why we should feel different. nature is efficient and it works. the further we get from it's system, the worse we will be.



a lot of the onus of fixing our economy falls on us the citizens. stop spending outside our means, and stop working for the govt or govt related industries. work in a profession that builds our economy. not sucks off its tit. all gov't programs/jobs/etc take away from the industries that actually build and grow our economy.



but c'mon, we all know none of this shit is gonna happen.
P
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9/27/2011 5:24pm
FastEddy wrote:
Do you think the problem is people/businesses etc.. are just not spending?
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part of them not hiring is that people aren't spending. The reply that I always her is that people aren't spending because they are scared of losing their jobs, but businesses expand if there is demand. Demand, in part, is created by spending. I don't think that people should spend what they don't have, but I don't think that we should expect people to save every dime that they have. Capitalism is based on people buying things.


P
9/27/2011 5:28pm
As I said before the government should be putting tariffs of imports from countries who are not on par with our wage and environmental laws.
WhKnuckle
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9/27/2011 5:40pm
This is a very severe balance sheet recession that involves both the US and Europe. It's not going to get better until people and companies pay off debt and fix their balance sheets. Then spending will increase to normal levels (which is lower than the debt-driven levels that started the whole mess), and tax receipts will increase and that'll help the government debt problem. But eventually governments are going to have to fix their balance sheets, too, and that's going to take a long time - decades. We and Western Europe have spent 30 years fouling up our balance sheets and accumulating too much debt, and it's going to take a similar amount of time to straighten it out.

The main thing to do is recognize why we are where we are, and avoid quick-fix gimmicks; this isn't a business cycle recession like we've had periodically since 1980 where business builds and overheats and has a natural cycle of slowing back down. Governments can fix business cycle recessions, but not balance sheet recessions. Government can do good things like hiring unemployed people to fix and build things, but the main thing they have to do is recognize that this isn't going to go away until individuals and companies have decreased their debt - when they do that and spending returns to normal, THEN government can fix their problem. If government tries to fix their problem at the same time, no matter how they do it, they're going to make things worse. Government can do specific things that will help, like trying to employ people to do projects that need to be done anyway, but if they try to drastically cut spending while individuals and companies are also cutting spending, they're going to drive the car back into the ditch that they've spent two years trying to get out of.

The good news is that people and companies are fixing their problem pretty quickly. US corporations are accumulating a LOT of cash, and people have decreased their debt to income ratios from around 135% in 2007 to about 118% today. That's good progress. I don't know how Europe is doing, but I think most of the big European economies are at least flat in GDP growth and some are pretty positive. We can't "get well" without Europe and they can't do it without us, but there's good progress being made.
borg
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9/27/2011 5:42pm
FastEddy wrote:
Do you think the problem is people/businesses etc.. are just not spending?
P wrote:
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part...
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part of them not hiring is that people aren't spending. The reply that I always her is that people aren't spending because they are scared of losing their jobs, but businesses expand if there is demand. Demand, in part, is created by spending. I don't think that people should spend what they don't have, but I don't think that we should expect people to save every dime that they have. Capitalism is based on people buying things.


P
So now you might understand why think the politicians are liars. In fact, their continued promises that they can make this all better is actually harmful. This is not your grandmother's recession. This will take 10 years to work through because the consumer has to get out of debt. We all saw Obama's promises flop and this crop of Republicans' promises will also flop. They are leading people around with a stick and a carrot when those people should accept this shit and downsize their lifestyles now instead of getting deeper in debt.

Everybody in my generation needs to understand that we partied hearty but now it's Monday morning and we have to clean up the mess before our parents get home. It's only a small percentage of people who get this. That's because the media and the politicians are lying to us.
jmar
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9/27/2011 5:51pm
Everybody in my generation needs to understand that we partied hearty but now it's Monday morning and we have to clean up the mess before our parents get home. It's only a small percentage of people who get this. That's because the media and the politicians are lying to us.

You have to stop the party before you can clean up the mess, and those who partied the hardest are still at it, continuing to create even more of mess.

That's our fault for buying them more beer.
P
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9/27/2011 5:53pm
FastEddy wrote:
Do you think the problem is people/businesses etc.. are just not spending?
P wrote:
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part...
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part of them not hiring is that people aren't spending. The reply that I always her is that people aren't spending because they are scared of losing their jobs, but businesses expand if there is demand. Demand, in part, is created by spending. I don't think that people should spend what they don't have, but I don't think that we should expect people to save every dime that they have. Capitalism is based on people buying things.


P
borg wrote:
So now you might understand why think the politicians are liars. In fact, their continued promises that they can make this all better is actually harmful...
So now you might understand why think the politicians are liars. In fact, their continued promises that they can make this all better is actually harmful. This is not your grandmother's recession. This will take 10 years to work through because the consumer has to get out of debt. We all saw Obama's promises flop and this crop of Republicans' promises will also flop. They are leading people around with a stick and a carrot when those people should accept this shit and downsize their lifestyles now instead of getting deeper in debt.

Everybody in my generation needs to understand that we partied hearty but now it's Monday morning and we have to clean up the mess before our parents get home. It's only a small percentage of people who get this. That's because the media and the politicians are lying to us.
Personally, I don't know that what has been done has "flopped." There were states that didn't want to take money from the Federal Government for needed projects and the whole debt deal didn't help consumer confidence IMO. There is always so much negative talk coming from the Republican side that the country hasn't had a chance to notice things that are going well and I think that is the game plan.


P
borg
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9/27/2011 5:57pm
jmar wrote:
[i]Everybody in my generation needs to understand that we partied hearty but now it's Monday morning and we have to clean up the mess before our...
Everybody in my generation needs to understand that we partied hearty but now it's Monday morning and we have to clean up the mess before our parents get home. It's only a small percentage of people who get this. That's because the media and the politicians are lying to us.

You have to stop the party before you can clean up the mess, and those who partied the hardest are still at it, continuing to create even more of mess.

That's our fault for buying them more beer.
No disagreement there.
It's government that needs to stop the partying. The rest of us are already dealing with it.
jmar
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9/27/2011 5:57pm
jtomasik wrote:
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of...
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of the DEA) and our legal system, as well as stop all drug-related aid to all foreign countries.

2. New foreign policy of non-intervention unless an immediate threat to the sovereignty of the US. Removal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. No exceptions. Back this by an immediate institution of the draft for EVERYONE aged 18-35, no exceptions, and all politicians immediate family members must serve on the front lines of military action is ever used, even without the declaration of war. Roll back of foreign bases and re-deployment at our borders.

3. Removal of the Fed and Central banks. Distribute cash directly from the government, with no interest loans to consumers and businesses who have a credit rating of 730 and above. Use the IRS as the collection agency (if you default, your wages are immediately garnished), the GAO to track the loans. Small banks will still stay in business, competing for those who need loans but have bad credit.

4. Nationalize health care for EVERYONE.

5. National sales tax replaces all income tax.
Mod Killer wrote:
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick. the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on...
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick.


the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on ur list.

a) i dont see where the money is gonna come from
b) i dont see why obesity, smoking related issues, and cancer (that comes from well known products we use every day) should be the tax payers burden
c) while were at it, should we nationalize food care for EVERYONE? autocare? etc etc etc.
d) healthcare is bad for our species. that may sound bad, but its the truth. it keeps the worst our genetics have to offer, alive and procreating. and health certainly isnt a birthright. it isnt in any other form of nature, i dont understand why we should feel different. nature is efficient and it works. the further we get from it's system, the worse we will be.



a lot of the onus of fixing our economy falls on us the citizens. stop spending outside our means, and stop working for the govt or govt related industries. work in a profession that builds our economy. not sucks off its tit. all gov't programs/jobs/etc take away from the industries that actually build and grow our economy.



but c'mon, we all know none of this shit is gonna happen.
And how do you make you living Modkiller?
9/27/2011 7:16pm
jtomasik wrote:
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of...
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of the DEA) and our legal system, as well as stop all drug-related aid to all foreign countries.

2. New foreign policy of non-intervention unless an immediate threat to the sovereignty of the US. Removal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. No exceptions. Back this by an immediate institution of the draft for EVERYONE aged 18-35, no exceptions, and all politicians immediate family members must serve on the front lines of military action is ever used, even without the declaration of war. Roll back of foreign bases and re-deployment at our borders.

3. Removal of the Fed and Central banks. Distribute cash directly from the government, with no interest loans to consumers and businesses who have a credit rating of 730 and above. Use the IRS as the collection agency (if you default, your wages are immediately garnished), the GAO to track the loans. Small banks will still stay in business, competing for those who need loans but have bad credit.

4. Nationalize health care for EVERYONE.

5. National sales tax replaces all income tax.
x2.
borg
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9/27/2011 7:25pm
P wrote:
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part...
Actually, that's probably the largest part of it. Businesses are sitting on a LARGE pot of cash right now, but they aren't hiring people and part of them not hiring is that people aren't spending. The reply that I always her is that people aren't spending because they are scared of losing their jobs, but businesses expand if there is demand. Demand, in part, is created by spending. I don't think that people should spend what they don't have, but I don't think that we should expect people to save every dime that they have. Capitalism is based on people buying things.


P
borg wrote:
So now you might understand why think the politicians are liars. In fact, their continued promises that they can make this all better is actually harmful...
So now you might understand why think the politicians are liars. In fact, their continued promises that they can make this all better is actually harmful. This is not your grandmother's recession. This will take 10 years to work through because the consumer has to get out of debt. We all saw Obama's promises flop and this crop of Republicans' promises will also flop. They are leading people around with a stick and a carrot when those people should accept this shit and downsize their lifestyles now instead of getting deeper in debt.

Everybody in my generation needs to understand that we partied hearty but now it's Monday morning and we have to clean up the mess before our parents get home. It's only a small percentage of people who get this. That's because the media and the politicians are lying to us.
P wrote:
Personally, I don't know that what has been done has "flopped." There were states that didn't want to take money from the Federal Government for needed...
Personally, I don't know that what has been done has "flopped." There were states that didn't want to take money from the Federal Government for needed projects and the whole debt deal didn't help consumer confidence IMO. There is always so much negative talk coming from the Republican side that the country hasn't had a chance to notice things that are going well and I think that is the game plan.


P
What I mean is that it didn't live up to what was promised. I recommend that we do not rely on what they are promising now. Republicans and Democrats. I have no affinity for the non stop criticism from the right because they are long on criticism and short on proposals. We all have to understand that these people cannot fix this.
jtomasik
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9/27/2011 7:48pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2011 7:53pm
Get China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, India, and Europe to have a world war. While they destroy each other, we'll sell them weapons. After the war, they'll be scraping their asses off the pavement, and we can sell them cars just like the good ol' days after WWII.
txmxer
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9/27/2011 8:17pm
jtomasik wrote:
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of...
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of the DEA) and our legal system, as well as stop all drug-related aid to all foreign countries.

2. New foreign policy of non-intervention unless an immediate threat to the sovereignty of the US. Removal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. No exceptions. Back this by an immediate institution of the draft for EVERYONE aged 18-35, no exceptions, and all politicians immediate family members must serve on the front lines of military action is ever used, even without the declaration of war. Roll back of foreign bases and re-deployment at our borders.

3. Removal of the Fed and Central banks. Distribute cash directly from the government, with no interest loans to consumers and businesses who have a credit rating of 730 and above. Use the IRS as the collection agency (if you default, your wages are immediately garnished), the GAO to track the loans. Small banks will still stay in business, competing for those who need loans but have bad credit.

4. Nationalize health care for EVERYONE.

5. National sales tax replaces all income tax.
Mod Killer wrote:
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick. the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on...
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick.


the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on ur list.

a) i dont see where the money is gonna come from
b) i dont see why obesity, smoking related issues, and cancer (that comes from well known products we use every day) should be the tax payers burden
c) while were at it, should we nationalize food care for EVERYONE? autocare? etc etc etc.
d) healthcare is bad for our species. that may sound bad, but its the truth. it keeps the worst our genetics have to offer, alive and procreating. and health certainly isnt a birthright. it isnt in any other form of nature, i dont understand why we should feel different. nature is efficient and it works. the further we get from it's system, the worse we will be.



a lot of the onus of fixing our economy falls on us the citizens. stop spending outside our means, and stop working for the govt or govt related industries. work in a profession that builds our economy. not sucks off its tit. all gov't programs/jobs/etc take away from the industries that actually build and grow our economy.



but c'mon, we all know none of this shit is gonna happen.
I agree with JTOM on everything except the national sales tax. It's a very regressive tax. Other than that, I agree.

There's a shit pot of money going in to health care. The only reason we system is the state of politics.

Borg has some good ideas as well, but they are less concrete. Most of those issues like regulation come from government trying to influence outcomes (like supporting ethanol or Solyndra). It's a circular motion of money and power and the politicians and the corporations like it as it is.
9/27/2011 8:39pm
Not to fix the economy per se, but rather than Obama's plan of spending $447 billion to create 1.9 million jobs next year (that is $235,000 a job), let's just go Hoover/Roosevelt's route and give people 40-50k a year to get off their fat asses and sweep the streets and do public works projects. Seems like it would save us about 80% of obama's plan.
Spahnzuki
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9/27/2011 8:39pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2011 8:40pm
motosmith wrote:
Cut government to about 50% of what it's current size is.
This. There are so many useless, redundant programs at both the state and federal level that do nothing more than give nepotonistic jobs enforcing business killing regulations and wasteful government handouts to criminals and illegals.
jmar
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9/27/2011 8:40pm
jtomasik wrote:
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of...
1. Legalize, regulate, and tax all recreational drugs. Instant revenue generator (it'll be a new industry), will save billions in the drug war (significant down-sizing of the DEA) and our legal system, as well as stop all drug-related aid to all foreign countries.

2. New foreign policy of non-intervention unless an immediate threat to the sovereignty of the US. Removal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. No exceptions. Back this by an immediate institution of the draft for EVERYONE aged 18-35, no exceptions, and all politicians immediate family members must serve on the front lines of military action is ever used, even without the declaration of war. Roll back of foreign bases and re-deployment at our borders.

3. Removal of the Fed and Central banks. Distribute cash directly from the government, with no interest loans to consumers and businesses who have a credit rating of 730 and above. Use the IRS as the collection agency (if you default, your wages are immediately garnished), the GAO to track the loans. Small banks will still stay in business, competing for those who need loans but have bad credit.

4. Nationalize health care for EVERYONE.

5. National sales tax replaces all income tax.
Mod Killer wrote:
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick. the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on...
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick.


the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on ur list.

a) i dont see where the money is gonna come from
b) i dont see why obesity, smoking related issues, and cancer (that comes from well known products we use every day) should be the tax payers burden
c) while were at it, should we nationalize food care for EVERYONE? autocare? etc etc etc.
d) healthcare is bad for our species. that may sound bad, but its the truth. it keeps the worst our genetics have to offer, alive and procreating. and health certainly isnt a birthright. it isnt in any other form of nature, i dont understand why we should feel different. nature is efficient and it works. the further we get from it's system, the worse we will be.



a lot of the onus of fixing our economy falls on us the citizens. stop spending outside our means, and stop working for the govt or govt related industries. work in a profession that builds our economy. not sucks off its tit. all gov't programs/jobs/etc take away from the industries that actually build and grow our economy.



but c'mon, we all know none of this shit is gonna happen.
txmxer wrote:
I agree with JTOM on everything except the national sales tax. It's a very regressive tax. Other than that, I agree. There's a shit pot of...
I agree with JTOM on everything except the national sales tax. It's a very regressive tax. Other than that, I agree.

There's a shit pot of money going in to health care. The only reason we system is the state of politics.

Borg has some good ideas as well, but they are less concrete. Most of those issues like regulation come from government trying to influence outcomes (like supporting ethanol or Solyndra). It's a circular motion of money and power and the politicians and the corporations like it as it is.
To be quite honest, I look at this thread and it helps me understand why we never have any real change. Not taking a personal jab at anyone, but for the most part, this thread was more of the" Obama sucks and he's the problem", or" the government sucks and I want to shut them down" type of stuff.

The only one that made sense was jtoms.
Spahnzuki
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9/27/2011 8:59pm
Mod Killer wrote:
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick. the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on...
i think a combination of what you have here and borg's sentiments, would solve shit quick.


the only one i heavily disagree with is #4 on ur list.

a) i dont see where the money is gonna come from
b) i dont see why obesity, smoking related issues, and cancer (that comes from well known products we use every day) should be the tax payers burden
c) while were at it, should we nationalize food care for EVERYONE? autocare? etc etc etc.
d) healthcare is bad for our species. that may sound bad, but its the truth. it keeps the worst our genetics have to offer, alive and procreating. and health certainly isnt a birthright. it isnt in any other form of nature, i dont understand why we should feel different. nature is efficient and it works. the further we get from it's system, the worse we will be.



a lot of the onus of fixing our economy falls on us the citizens. stop spending outside our means, and stop working for the govt or govt related industries. work in a profession that builds our economy. not sucks off its tit. all gov't programs/jobs/etc take away from the industries that actually build and grow our economy.



but c'mon, we all know none of this shit is gonna happen.
txmxer wrote:
I agree with JTOM on everything except the national sales tax. It's a very regressive tax. Other than that, I agree. There's a shit pot of...
I agree with JTOM on everything except the national sales tax. It's a very regressive tax. Other than that, I agree.

There's a shit pot of money going in to health care. The only reason we system is the state of politics.

Borg has some good ideas as well, but they are less concrete. Most of those issues like regulation come from government trying to influence outcomes (like supporting ethanol or Solyndra). It's a circular motion of money and power and the politicians and the corporations like it as it is.
jmar wrote:
To be quite honest, I look at this thread and it helps me understand why we never have any real change. Not taking a personal jab...
To be quite honest, I look at this thread and it helps me understand why we never have any real change. Not taking a personal jab at anyone, but for the most part, this thread was more of the" Obama sucks and he's the problem", or" the government sucks and I want to shut them down" type of stuff.

The only one that made sense was jtoms.
You are correct, jtoms has some good ideas. But a simple fact is that government has become way too big...way too much waste. It could/should be cut nearly in half at both a state and federal level to save an enormous amount of money that could be reinvested in education and infrastructure, both creating jobs without raising taxes. There is such an enormous amount of useless bureaucracy at every level of government...people with nothing better to do than create new laws and regulations that place a huge burden on new business an innovation.....things that once made this country great.
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9/27/2011 9:12pm
1) Cut the capital gains tax and the death tax first of all.

2) Get rid of the IRS. It's not only a pain in the fucking ass to do your taxes each year, it's expensive and there are too many loopholes. Should just be a flat tax or fair tax.

3) Get rid of payroll tax. That will put real money in your pocket each paycheck instead of being taxed to death. You can then decide how you want to spend your money instead of the government deciding for you. There is about 25% that comes out of your paycheck and that should be all your money. It's just plain robbery. You can then decide if you want money taken out for health insurance, etc.

3) Need to start bringing jobs back to the U.S. Manufacturing jobs that is. Too many products are being made overseas.

4) Let the States have more power on how they want to run things instead of the federal government.

5) You have to cut spending.
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9/27/2011 9:19pm
After reading some of the replies are any of the options presented realistic? Is there anything mentioned that you all think could actually happen? If so, please name them and if not what is the alternative???


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