Historic Aircraft from back in the day

KMC440
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2/27/2021 6:34am
So Plowie what you're saying, without saying, planes are like women...
2
LoudLove
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2/27/2021 6:43am
LoudLove wrote:
Long love the mighty Intruder! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/02/26/480469/s1200_89E0E6C0_4CAE_4EF9_B2F5_F29DA52AF7C3.jpg[/img] I have my NATOPS manual around somewhere. Launch the Alert 5 tanker!
Long love the mighty Intruder!


I have my NATOPS manual around somewhere. Launch the Alert 5 tanker!
Sully wrote:
Always loved the Intruder, but I missed them by about 6 months. VA115 left CVW5/Independence and retired their Intruders in mid '96, and I checked onboard...
Always loved the Intruder, but I missed them by about 6 months. VA115 left CVW5/Independence and retired their Intruders in mid '96, and I checked onboard the boat in late '96. The Prowlers were cool, but something about the A6 just looked so much cooler.
The A6-E was a great platform, and had one of the best ready rooms on the ship. In-flight management of the navigation & delivery systems was sometimes challenging, but seldom boring, especially at night, 250’ AGL, flying between ridge lines of the Appalachian Mountains.
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plowboy
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2/27/2021 6:55am
KMC440 wrote:
So Plowie what you're saying, without saying, planes are like women...
You KNOW that's trueGrinning
G-man
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Mesa, AZ US
2/27/2021 10:59am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2021 11:05am
KMC440 wrote:
That's a good article and yes exposes a lot of issues regarding Aviation maintenance and having major work done by 3rd party maintenance facilities.

That is what happened in my 2nd time I was blindsided in a layoff when I worked for America West Airlines. No rumors or nothing like you get with most layoffs.

I got a phone call on a weekend that I was no longer employed I thought it was a friend playing a prank. The swing shift maintenance crew tried to go to work that day and the gates were locked they could not even get to their tool boxes there was quite an uproar in the local news stations about it.

We were in chapter 7 for about 4 years (pay cut, stock freeze) and working our way out of it when they hired a Corporate Henchman Bill Franke to help guide them. They gave him complete control little did they know that he would ultimately fire both the guys who created the airline and hired him it was the ultimate backstabbing technique.

Then he came up with a brilliant idea of outsourcing the heavy maintenance C checks and having a company in the Northwest Tramco do that work.

They forgot to factor in now they had to ferry an empty airplane (twice) pay the crew and all the fuel and costs that go into that also the fact that these Tramco employees were underpaid contract workers that could care less about America West Airlines. Angry

Turned out to be a major mistake and ended up costing a lot more money and they had a lot more maintenance problems and I do believe there was a crash.

Another brilliant move by upper management, that don't have a clue as they don't work in the weeds that I have been through in my career.🙄🤬

The Shop

plowboy
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2/27/2021 11:17am
KMC440 wrote:
G-man wrote:
That's a good article and yes exposes a lot of issues regarding Aviation maintenance and having major work done by 3rd party maintenance facilities. That is...
That's a good article and yes exposes a lot of issues regarding Aviation maintenance and having major work done by 3rd party maintenance facilities.

That is what happened in my 2nd time I was blindsided in a layoff when I worked for America West Airlines. No rumors or nothing like you get with most layoffs.

I got a phone call on a weekend that I was no longer employed I thought it was a friend playing a prank. The swing shift maintenance crew tried to go to work that day and the gates were locked they could not even get to their tool boxes there was quite an uproar in the local news stations about it.

We were in chapter 7 for about 4 years (pay cut, stock freeze) and working our way out of it when they hired a Corporate Henchman Bill Franke to help guide them. They gave him complete control little did they know that he would ultimately fire both the guys who created the airline and hired him it was the ultimate backstabbing technique.

Then he came up with a brilliant idea of outsourcing the heavy maintenance C checks and having a company in the Northwest Tramco do that work.

They forgot to factor in now they had to ferry an empty airplane (twice) pay the crew and all the fuel and costs that go into that also the fact that these Tramco employees were underpaid contract workers that could care less about America West Airlines. Angry

Turned out to be a major mistake and ended up costing a lot more money and they had a lot more maintenance problems and I do believe there was a crash.

Another brilliant move by upper management, that don't have a clue as they don't work in the weeds that I have been through in my career.🙄🤬
Amen...I say, can I get an AMEN brothers. Been in those weeds myself.
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G-man
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2/27/2021 11:25am
plowboy wrote:
Amen...I say, can I get an AMEN brothers. Been in those weeds myself.
AMEN!!!!! Woohoo
plowboy
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2/27/2021 12:09pm
plowboy wrote:
Amen...I say, can I get an AMEN brothers. Been in those weeds myself.
G-man wrote:
AMEN!!!!! Woohoo
I've been extremely fortunate to be on the experimental side for the last 10 years. We still have "milestones" and unrealistic deadlines but most of the time I can grab a design engineer by the scruff of the neck and rub their nose in their mistakes before they make it into production (which is far more costly to correct).

Slight tangent but still related...for a while now the DOD thought that unmanned aircraft would surely be the future. Cheaper to build without human considerations, i.e.; no cockpit, environmental systems, egress, etc. Trouble is...someone has to control that vehicle via some sort of communication or just preprogram it with no form of recall or cancellation. Current technology can't make these platforms "un-jammable". Despite the best efforts of the military and industry to drive down costs and manpower...the manned aircraft lives on.
G-man
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2/27/2021 6:04pm
Howard Hughes was an Aviation Pioneer and genius. He went toe to toe against the government and Pan Am Airlines as they tried to monopolise air travel back in the day.

But after his experimental plane crash in Beverly Hills where he would have died if not pulled out from a GI he became addicted to pain pills and went down hill from there.


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KMC440
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2/27/2021 6:25pm
Genius doesn't even begin to describe Hughes. He was portrayed as a reclusive mad man in the press when I was a kid. I always wanted to meet him because of the Spruce Goose.
4
Yeti831
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UT US
2/27/2021 10:41pm
I’ve personally always had a soft spot for flying boats, particularly the Grumman HU16B (long wing variant with increased fuel capacity and higher gross takeoff weight) and the G73T Mallard (turbine converted with 680hp pt6 turboprops).

They’ve always been on my “if I ever win the lottery... “ list.

As my first A&P instructor said, “oh awesome. Then you’d have the amazing experience of maintaining an aircraft, a boat and a house all it one neat package. Nothing like a 1br apartment that drinks fuel @ 200gph.” 😂😂😂 He hates seaplanes and helicopters with an absolute passion.

https://youtu.be/t8VGCsuEtJc
3
SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX US
2/27/2021 11:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/27/2021 11:40pm
plowboy wrote:
I know I'm totally biased because I cut my teeth on KC/EC/RC-135's but I always liked working on Boeing stuff. You guys know that every manufacturer...
I know I'm totally biased because I cut my teeth on KC/EC/RC-135's but I always liked working on Boeing stuff. You guys know that every manufacturer intentionally uses as much of their engineering from previous designs on each new model...saves time and money and makes the mechanics life easier, too. I've been working on Cessna Citations for about 20 years so I'm pretty comfortable with all the models due to commonality but the last year or so I've been doing heavy mods on Beech King Airs. Talk about feeling like a fish out of water. The prints, maintenance manuals, and design just make no sense to me. Thank God for tribal knowledge.

As far as aircraft flaws...I have never heard of ANY aircraft ever built...no matter how much the pilots, mechanics, or passengers loved them...that didn't have some system or characteristic that was subpar in some way. I've worked planes that just never broke...spent more time polishing tools and sweeping the hanger floor than turning wrenches...but the pilots hated them. Conversely, I've had pilots get out of the cockpit with a shit eating grin and it's taken a week to get that thing flyable again.

I saw a report, while I was building fighter aircraft, for an F-111 that was delivered to the UK.

Now consider the publically known limitations of the F-111, like speed. The paint in front of the canopy is good for mach 2. The aircraft cannot do mach 2. As far as you know...

The aircraft landed in the UK.
The nacelle delaminated on one side.
The right horizontal stabilizer lost a significant amount of surface at the extreme station.
The vertical stabilizer lost a significant amount of material at extreme waterline.
Paint bubbled fore of canopy.

You have recieved an exceptional aircraft.
SEEMEFIRST
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2/27/2021 11:37pm Edited Date/Time 2/27/2021 11:38pm
The F-111 was easily a mach 2 aircraft.
I worked on them for about 5 years even though they had to quit making them.

I spent a lot of time on the guillotine that saved pilots from going in with the aircraft.

It severed the lines between the cockpit/capsule and the fuselage at punch out.
plowboy
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2/28/2021 6:05am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
The F-111 was easily a mach 2 aircraft. I worked on them for about 5 years even though they had to quit making them. I spent...
The F-111 was easily a mach 2 aircraft.
I worked on them for about 5 years even though they had to quit making them.

I spent a lot of time on the guillotine that saved pilots from going in with the aircraft.

It severed the lines between the cockpit/capsule and the fuselage at punch out.
Was there ever a successful egress from the 111? I was with the EF Ravens during the 1st gulf war. We were with the F models from Lakenheath stationed at Taif SA.

I'm pretty sure the EF, which was just an A model with a shit ton of jamming equipment crammed in it, could bust mach 2. Those hot rod F111F's were a LOT faster. We got to Saudi in Sept and by Christmas there wasn't much paint left on any leading edges.

I know those planes were extremely effective at making bad guys go boom but it took a hell of a lot of work to keep them flying. I worked them for 3 years and we had exactly ONE Code 1 flight (no discrepancies noted after sortie). The DCM shut down the flight line and fed us burgers and beer to celebrate that milestone.
2
DoctorJD
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Somewhere in..., GA US
2/28/2021 7:09am
A good riding buddy of mine few L-1011s. Unfortunately he just passed away about a month ago.
G-man wrote:
Sorry to hear about your buddy Void....😥 The L 1011 was a superior aircraft to the DC10. But the DC10 was out first and that put...
Sorry to hear about your buddy Void....😥

The L 1011 was a superior aircraft to the DC10. But the DC10 was out first and that put us under.

They had issues with Engines falling off due to maintenance procedures on installing them incorrectly with a forklift. Unsure
LoudLove wrote:
The L-10 Lemons, aka the Tri-Tanic? My dad was a Delta pilot, 1969-99. That plane had a less than stellar reputation.
An old friend's dad was flew for Eastern and later, Delta. He flew L-1011's. I always loved flying on L1011s, it felt like you were flying in your living room.

I've heard some old pilots/crew refer to the DC-10 as the "Death Cruiser-10".
1
LoudLove
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2/28/2021 9:26am
Ironically both the DC-10 and L-1011 were swan songs for Douglas and Lockheed’s commercial aircraft ventures. DC later merged with Boeing, while Lockheed focused on military aircraft and avionics. The DC-10 had a rather poor safety record, while the TriStar was undergoing constraints upgrades, sending OPEX skyrocketing. Their “wide-body” approaches would later be emulated by Boeing and Airbus, who today are the sole manufacturers of large commercial aircraft.
1
freeh
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617
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Location
West Jordan, UT US
2/28/2021 3:18pm
plowboy wrote:
I know I'm totally biased because I cut my teeth on KC/EC/RC-135's but I always liked working on Boeing stuff. You guys know that every manufacturer...
I know I'm totally biased because I cut my teeth on KC/EC/RC-135's but I always liked working on Boeing stuff. You guys know that every manufacturer intentionally uses as much of their engineering from previous designs on each new model...saves time and money and makes the mechanics life easier, too. I've been working on Cessna Citations for about 20 years so I'm pretty comfortable with all the models due to commonality but the last year or so I've been doing heavy mods on Beech King Airs. Talk about feeling like a fish out of water. The prints, maintenance manuals, and design just make no sense to me. Thank God for tribal knowledge.

As far as aircraft flaws...I have never heard of ANY aircraft ever built...no matter how much the pilots, mechanics, or passengers loved them...that didn't have some system or characteristic that was subpar in some way. I've worked planes that just never broke...spent more time polishing tools and sweeping the hanger floor than turning wrenches...but the pilots hated them. Conversely, I've had pilots get out of the cockpit with a shit eating grin and it's taken a week to get that thing flyable again.

Small world. My company makes braking systems / components for various Textron platforms.
XXVoid MainXX
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Schenectady, NY US
3/1/2021 1:27pm
Ha, I just drove past a 111 on the side of the road just west of Texarkana.
1
plowboy
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Norwich, KS US
3/1/2021 2:00pm
freeh wrote:
Small world. My company makes braking systems / components for various Textron platforms.
Meggitt?
freeh
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West Jordan, UT US
3/1/2021 2:30pm
freeh wrote:
Small world. My company makes braking systems / components for various Textron platforms.
plowboy wrote:
Meggitt?
Yes sir. I am a Program Manager there, and briefly worked Textron. I just transferred to all of the military programs actually.
plowboy
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3/1/2021 3:06pm
freeh wrote:
Small world. My company makes braking systems / components for various Textron platforms.
plowboy wrote:
Meggitt?
freeh wrote:
Yes sir. I am a Program Manager there, and briefly worked Textron. I just transferred to all of the military programs actually.
Really good product. They have been looking at putting anti-skid on the T-6 for a while now. It needs it...heavy footed pilots blow new tires in one flight. Might be worth reaching out to our program guys. There's a lot of T-6's out there. If you want, I may be able to get you a contact.
SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX US
3/1/2021 3:54pm
Was there ever a successful egress from the 111?

No idea. My job was to repair the tooling to make the parts for it.
plowboy
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3/1/2021 4:47pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Was there ever a successful egress from the 111?

No idea. My job was to repair the tooling to make the parts for it.
It was a rhetorical question. I'm not in any way disparaging the work you did. I'm saying the design wasn't capable of separating the capsule at the speed and altitude that most egress was initiated.
SEEMEFIRST
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10987
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Arlington, TX US
3/1/2021 5:35pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Was there ever a successful egress from the 111?

No idea. My job was to repair the tooling to make the parts for it.
plowboy wrote:
It was a rhetorical question. I'm not in any way disparaging the work you did. I'm saying the design wasn't capable of separating the capsule at...
It was a rhetorical question. I'm not in any way disparaging the work you did. I'm saying the design wasn't capable of separating the capsule at the speed and altitude that most egress was initiated.
Oh, no. I didn't take it that way at all.
I didn't design it, I was just following orders.

It's all good. I just don't know if it ever worked.
I did all I could.

alphado
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3308
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Location
Erie, PA US
3/2/2021 6:47am
I got to fly on W-7 a few years ago. Felt like it was going to fall apart the whole flight. We got to stand right next to an Avril Lancaster bomber as it started it's engines and taxied to the runway. Awesome amount of power!

W7 is truly a WWII veteran. This aircraft originally served with the 12th Air Force in the Mediterranean Theater in 1943 and the 9th Air Force in England 1944-1945 as part of the 316th Troop Carrier Group. It was one of the lead aircraft of the first strike of the D-Day invasion on June 6th, 1944 over Ste. Mere Eglise, Normandy. It transported paratroopers for the 82nd Airborne Division as part of Operation NEPTUNE. Flak was very heavy during these missions but this C-47 managed to survive it all.



6
G-man
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Location
Mesa, AZ US
3/2/2021 7:15am
Jan's Father flew the Black Widow in WW2.

He was a very humble and gentle Man who raised 5 boys and 1 girl. Jan said he never talked about it.....

This was a serious war machine.


The Northrop P-61 Black Widow, named for the North American spider, was the first operational U.S. warplane designed as a night fighter, and the first aircraft designed to use radar.[1][2] The P-61 had a crew of three: pilot, gunner, and radar operator. It was armed with four 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano M2 forward-firing cannon mounted in the lower fuselage, and four .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns mounted in a remote-controlled dorsal gun turret.
3
G-man
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8080
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Location
Mesa, AZ US
3/2/2021 7:31am
Yeah, I started on F-16s at Nellis in '81 and thought they were a pain in the arse to work on. Then I went to Germany...
Yeah, I started on F-16s at Nellis in '81 and thought they were a pain in the arse to work on. Then I went to Germany (Spangdahlem) and crewed F-4E and G models and found out what pain in the arse to work on really was. Smile Working A-10s at Myrtle Beach was a dream in comparison to the other two.
Luved the A-10!
Was so glad they did not cancel the program like they have done with so many other great Aircraft.

It's essentially a GIANT machine gun with a plane wrapped around it. Woohoo





6
vet323
Posts
2939
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Location
Lead, SD US
3/2/2021 9:25am
Ha, I just drove past a 111 on the side of the road just west of Texarkana.
.....was it out of gas?
Kenny Lingus
Posts
1022
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9/9/2016
Location
Watkins Glen, NY US
3/4/2021 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 3/4/2021 5:53pm
Stopped and took a pic of this beast on the way home. Impress me by identifying it. If you are an aviation buff you better know it. Bonus points for anyone who can also say what the builder was/is also famous for? Hint: it's moto related, super old OG badass shit.



2
3/4/2021 3:30pm
A few years ago I took a trip to the UK. I got to stop in the imperial war museum in London. So much cool stuff in there. One thing that stood out to me was a cutaway display of a Merlin engine. The engineering and plumbing of it was awesome. I took a few pictures but they don't do it justice. They also had a spitfire and a v2 rocket that were cool to see in person.
2
shawski
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9/22/2018
Location
Elk River, MN US
3/4/2021 5:19pm
Last summer I took the bike out for a spin.
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