Gun Control - What does it really mean?

Tim507
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Edited Date/Time 1/2/2013 6:30am
Here is one of many opinions

My Opinon is that this is not a about gun control but rather controling people.

http://8minutesoffame.com/america-freedom-vs-freedom/
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flarider
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12/23/2012 4:14pm
I think owners of firearms need to take more responsibility for the safety and security of their firearms, for example, locking them in a safe when not at home. A nightstand is not a proper, secure storage facility.

The gun show loophole needs to either be eliminated or more heavily reduced, as there are zero checks at gun shows and none is required, allowing weapons to fall into the hands of lunatics and criminals "legally."

IMO, these simple steps that does not inhibit the lawful purchase or ownership of any weapon legal today, can reduce the number of weapons used by criminals by reducing the number of stolen firearms and ones bought legally through gun shows.
Mr. G
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12/23/2012 6:32pm
I have not yet found the gun show loophole as they always have required me to use a gun shop. Maybe a different state?
PD441
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12/23/2012 7:42pm
flarider wrote:
I think owners of firearms need to take more responsibility for the safety and security of their firearms, for example, locking them in a safe when...
I think owners of firearms need to take more responsibility for the safety and security of their firearms, for example, locking them in a safe when not at home. A nightstand is not a proper, secure storage facility.

The gun show loophole needs to either be eliminated or more heavily reduced, as there are zero checks at gun shows and none is required, allowing weapons to fall into the hands of lunatics and criminals "legally."

IMO, these simple steps that does not inhibit the lawful purchase or ownership of any weapon legal today, can reduce the number of weapons used by criminals by reducing the number of stolen firearms and ones bought legally through gun shows.
Every gun show I've attended in AZ has required a background check for purchasing a firearm. Is it different in other states? Maybe that's why I've never understood the "gun show loophole".

The Shop

flarider
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12/23/2012 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2012 8:00pm
Not here. It's county to county.

The overall law is state to state

I believe it also depends on if seller is a licensed dealer or a private seller (non-dealer)
flarider
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12/23/2012 8:16pm
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#private-record-…;

Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?
When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3.


Not all sellers at gun shows are dealers holding a FFL
88sdad
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12/23/2012 9:31pm
http://www.rgj.com/article/20121223/NEWS/312230069/


Editor’s note: With a national conversation under way about how to reduce gun violence following the Dec. 14 massacre
in Newtown, Conn., Americans are asking a lot of questions about how firearms are obtained. With the Crossroads of the West Gun Show in town this weekend, we sent a reporter to find out what it’s like to buy a semi-automatic, military-style weapon at a gun show. This is his first-person account:

I purchased and walked out of a gun show Saturday in Reno with a semi-automatic, military-style rifle in less than 30 minutes for under $600.
dirthead1
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12/24/2012 11:27am
88sdad wrote:
[url=http://www.rgj.com/article/20121223/NEWS/312230069/]http://www.rgj.com/article/20121223/NEWS/312230069/[/url] Editor’s note: With a national conversation under way about how to reduce gun violence following the Dec. 14 massacre in Newtown, Conn., Americans are asking...
http://www.rgj.com/article/20121223/NEWS/312230069/


Editor’s note: With a national conversation under way about how to reduce gun violence following the Dec. 14 massacre
in Newtown, Conn., Americans are asking a lot of questions about how firearms are obtained. With the Crossroads of the West Gun Show in town this weekend, we sent a reporter to find out what it’s like to buy a semi-automatic, military-style weapon at a gun show. This is his first-person account:

I purchased and walked out of a gun show Saturday in Reno with a semi-automatic, military-style rifle in less than 30 minutes for under $600.
Man! Those cheap AR15s are sure getting bought up!
TeamGreen
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12/24/2012 3:47pm
I'd be happy if those spewing the bullshit-faggity-assed-media based "statistics" and their BULLSHIT arguments based in their "Feelings"...well...those fucks should learn to read the laws and intentions of those that founded this nation.

That would be a REALLY NICE start.

I'm jus' sayin'..
lostboy819
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12/24/2012 5:43pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'd be happy if those spewing the bullshit-faggity-assed-media based "statistics" and their BULLSHIT arguments based in their "Feelings"...well...those fucks should learn to read the laws and...
I'd be happy if those spewing the bullshit-faggity-assed-media based "statistics" and their BULLSHIT arguments based in their "Feelings"...well...those fucks should learn to read the laws and intentions of those that founded this nation.

That would be a REALLY NICE start.

I'm jus' sayin'..
Not only those who founded the nation but we the people who have evolved with the guns and we still support the 2nd amendment. They make it sound like the guns today are not what they had in mind but it makes no difference because the will of the people is still the same and when they make even better guns we will keep supporting them.
borg
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12/24/2012 5:47pm Edited Date/Time 12/24/2012 5:50pm
Linky no worky.
robkinuk
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12/24/2012 8:13pm Edited Date/Time 12/24/2012 8:14pm
To all these maniac's who want to see what shooting kid's, firemenSad is like!..................... go try it on yourself first before you take out innocent's in a blaze of glory!Wink
TDeath21
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12/25/2012 12:55am
Here's the thing. If all guns were taken away right now, only criminals will have them. Criminals acquired their guns illegally in the first place, so there's no way to track them.

There are some guns in my house. Two for protection. I have never had someone break into my house, and I hope that I never do. However, if that ever does happen, I will be prepared to defend myself. I'm not sure if you Europeans realize how bad some areas are here in the US. I don't live in a bad area, but there are many law abiding Americans that do, and that gun they have by their bed at night has been used or will be used to protect themselves. It's sad, but that's the world we live in right now. Is someone going to break into my house every night? No. Am I going to crash every time I go riding? No. However, you'll never see me riding without a helmet on, and you'll never see me without a gun in my house.

In a hypothetical situation where the government somehow were to take away every gun on the street, our murders would obviously drop, as would our mass murders, but what about crime in general? Would it go down or up? How about violent crimes such as rape or kidnapping? Would they go up or down? Would our government feel like they have even more power over us to do whatever they wanted? Would our country be more likely to be invaded? Those are the questions you have to ask yourself.

I find it extremely hypocritical of politicians to say that guns need to be taken away, even from law abiding citizens, yet they have armed body guards everywhere they go.
TC67
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12/25/2012 1:37pm
This is what I believe. If more competent people carried there would be much less crime. Just like when there is a Patrolman on the road. Just the presence is enough to make people mind their Manners.

You would be surprised at How respectful and polite People would become if this were the case!!!
We might even become a Civil Society again. No more People Talk'in sh!t. Less or no road rage. Less or none of what happened in Newtown Ct. I almost guarantee there would be Less violent crime. You see if a Punk A$$ thug, or even somewhat mentally disturbed, or distressed person knows they may have to face opposition or force, then most likely they won't do it, At least think twice, or if they do proceed the chances of success or number of victims are greatly diminished.
Criminals tend to look for EASY or weak targets! On the other hand if there is little or no threat, or minimal resistance from your victim, Its very easy! Don't you agree. I myself would prefer not to be a victim!
TC67
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12/25/2012 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 12/25/2012 1:55pm
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
lostboy819
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12/25/2012 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 12/25/2012 2:47pm
TC67 wrote:
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment. The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or...
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
Amen Brother ! That is what freedom is all about , you can get what you want and as long as you can afford it then why not? I dont need my AR15 and all my 30 round magazines but it sure makes it nice when I go shooting not to have to reload all the time, Do I need it ? No but I want it and I dont break the law so I am glad I can have it.
jmar
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Oklahoma City, OK US
12/25/2012 3:09pm
TC67 wrote:
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment. The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or...
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
lostboy819 wrote:
Amen Brother ! That is what freedom is all about , you can get what you want and as long as you can afford it then...
Amen Brother ! That is what freedom is all about , you can get what you want and as long as you can afford it then why not? I dont need my AR15 and all my 30 round magazines but it sure makes it nice when I go shooting not to have to reload all the time, Do I need it ? No but I want it and I dont break the law so I am glad I can have it.
And I have no issue with people like yourself having a AR 15 with a thirty round magazine.

I just wish there was a way to keep them out of the hands of those who know nothing about firearms, and the kookbags that go off on a killing spree.

There really are no good answers.
flarider
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12/25/2012 3:41pm
TC67 wrote:
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment. The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or...
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal.

You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal.
You can't own a rocket launcher.
You can't own a shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapon.
You can't own a Howitzer.
You can't own a tank.

So there are limitations to the 2nd Amendment, just as there are limits to the 1st Amendment and free speech and freedom of the press.

It's wild-eyed zealots on both sides of the argument who are going to fuck shit up.
Radicals are either side do not help their cause.

Not understanding the basics of Constitutionality and law, doesn't help your cause.
lostboy819
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12/25/2012 3:57pm
TC67 wrote:
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment. The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or...
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
flarider wrote:
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal. You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal...
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal.

You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal.
You can't own a rocket launcher.
You can't own a shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapon.
You can't own a Howitzer.
You can't own a tank.

So there are limitations to the 2nd Amendment, just as there are limits to the 1st Amendment and free speech and freedom of the press.

It's wild-eyed zealots on both sides of the argument who are going to fuck shit up.
Radicals are either side do not help their cause.

Not understanding the basics of Constitutionality and law, doesn't help your cause.
You can own and purchase a full auto but you have to go through a lot of different steps with a class III dealer and lots of paper work and fees. But all the others you list you can not Legally own. We have a few people with full auto MP5s at the gun club and they think its worth the time and money but I have never looked into it because I cant afford to shoot $50 woth of ammo in less than a few seconds. I am sure someone here knows how to go about getting a full auto and can fill us all in on how hard or easy it is.
lostboy819
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12/25/2012 4:02pm Edited Date/Time 12/25/2012 4:02pm
flarider wrote:
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal. You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal...
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal.

You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal.
You can't own a rocket launcher.
You can't own a shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapon.
You can't own a Howitzer.
You can't own a tank.

So there are limitations to the 2nd Amendment, just as there are limits to the 1st Amendment and free speech and freedom of the press.

It's wild-eyed zealots on both sides of the argument who are going to fuck shit up.
Radicals are either side do not help their cause.

Not understanding the basics of Constitutionality and law, doesn't help your cause.
You get lots of guys like J.F.S. who think the 2nd amendment has not changed since it was written back when black powder one shot muskets were used, they dont understand that it has been undated and ruled on several times and is current with modern times.
XXVoid MainXX
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12/25/2012 4:02pm
TC67 wrote:
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment. The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or...
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
flarider wrote:
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal. You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal...
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal.

You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal.
You can't own a rocket launcher.
You can't own a shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapon.
You can't own a Howitzer.
You can't own a tank.

So there are limitations to the 2nd Amendment, just as there are limits to the 1st Amendment and free speech and freedom of the press.

It's wild-eyed zealots on both sides of the argument who are going to fuck shit up.
Radicals are either side do not help their cause.

Not understanding the basics of Constitutionality and law, doesn't help your cause.
Actually you can own those things, you just have to have the proper permits.
lostboy819
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12/25/2012 4:06pm
jmar wrote:
And I have no issue with people like yourself having a AR 15 with a thirty round magazine. I just wish there was a way to...
And I have no issue with people like yourself having a AR 15 with a thirty round magazine.

I just wish there was a way to keep them out of the hands of those who know nothing about firearms, and the kookbags that go off on a killing spree.

There really are no good answers.
Sadly the people who want to kill will find a way and guns are the easy way for them, take away guns and they will find something else, bombs , poison gas etc. I keep mine locked up at all times when not being used and wish everyone else did also.
flarider
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12/25/2012 4:55pm
I was referring to the fact that it's not legal to own a full auto like it is a semi-auto or any conventional weapon legal today.Nevertheless, you're not guaranteed a permit. The courts have held that there are limitations on what you can own.

and yes, crazy anti-gun zealots are just as bad as any other crazy.

People need to learn to be rational about this, on both sides, or everyone is going to be unhappy with the final outcome.
jtomasik
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12/25/2012 5:07pm
flarider wrote:
I was referring to the fact that it's not legal to own a full auto like it is a semi-auto or any conventional weapon legal today.Nevertheless...
I was referring to the fact that it's not legal to own a full auto like it is a semi-auto or any conventional weapon legal today.Nevertheless, you're not guaranteed a permit. The courts have held that there are limitations on what you can own.

and yes, crazy anti-gun zealots are just as bad as any other crazy.

People need to learn to be rational about this, on both sides, or everyone is going to be unhappy with the final outcome.
People need to learn to be rational about this, on both sides, or everyone is going to be unhappy with the final outcome.


Yeah, the general public are great about researching the facts to gain an understanding that will allow them to rationally think this through. Just like they did when they supported America invading Iraq because Iraq had all of those weapons of mass destruction that nobody could locate.
Slow450
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12/25/2012 9:00pm
TC67 wrote:
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment. The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or...
Gun control legislation (banning GUNS or accessories) Infringes upon the 2nd amendment.
The question comes up, What does anyone need a semi automatic weapon for? or a 30 round Magazine?
Of course One could also ask What is a person doing riding a 1300cc motorcycle around town at 30 MPH for? What does my Neighbor need a Quad Cab Dully Pickup with 48" in tires on it to drive to work for? Do Civilians Really need or should they own Aircraft or helicopters, They could so easily be used to spread Anthrax, Or in any number of Biological or Chemical Attacks Killing and injuring countless lives?
In the end Crazy people will do Crazy things, and for any free Law abiding citizen to loose their rights in such a futal and reckless attempt to save us from ourselves is Ignorant. Too many people Just do not understand that no matter how good the intentions, it is not worth loosing our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
flarider wrote:
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal. You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal...
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal.

You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal.
You can't own a rocket launcher.
You can't own a shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapon.
You can't own a Howitzer.
You can't own a tank.

So there are limitations to the 2nd Amendment, just as there are limits to the 1st Amendment and free speech and freedom of the press.

It's wild-eyed zealots on both sides of the argument who are going to fuck shit up.
Radicals are either side do not help their cause.

Not understanding the basics of Constitutionality and law, doesn't help your cause.
Actually you can own those things, you just have to have the proper permits.
Show me where I can obtain a permit for a shoulder-fired anti aircraft weapon and I'll show you my surprised face.
XXVoid MainXX
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12/25/2012 9:03pm
flarider wrote:
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal. You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal...
You're wrong, the courts have ruled that some limitations are perfectly legal.

You can't legally purchase or possess a fully automatic firearm, correct? It is illegal.
You can't own a rocket launcher.
You can't own a shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapon.
You can't own a Howitzer.
You can't own a tank.

So there are limitations to the 2nd Amendment, just as there are limits to the 1st Amendment and free speech and freedom of the press.

It's wild-eyed zealots on both sides of the argument who are going to fuck shit up.
Radicals are either side do not help their cause.

Not understanding the basics of Constitutionality and law, doesn't help your cause.
Actually you can own those things, you just have to have the proper permits.
Slow450 wrote:
Show me where I can obtain a permit for a shoulder-fired anti aircraft weapon and I'll show you my surprised face.
I can show you where you can purchase a fighter aircraft. That would do a lot more damage than one of those anti-aircraft weapons. Wink

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