Guilty

newmann
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Edited Date/Time 2/27/2015 11:15am
Life without parole.
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mxb2
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2/24/2015 8:34pm
newmann wrote:
Life without parole.
No death penalty?
Old-Man
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2/24/2015 9:18pm
newmann wrote:
Life without parole.
Goody..more reason for the real crooks to raise taxes
IWreckALot
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2/25/2015 6:10am
I'm on the fence about this guy. . . This is one of the instances where I lean towards the punishment fits the circumstances. . . I'm definitely pro death penalty but given this guy had a history of PTSD and a former military person, I couldn't feel right about giving the death penalty. He was struggling and our government has done such a stellar job at abandoning our soldiers once they return from combat and retire from the military.

It's difficult to argue against the death penalty though. He knew in his mind that it was wrong and murdered two guys in cold blood.

The Shop

IWreckALot
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2/25/2015 6:11am
newmann wrote:
Life without parole.
Old-Man wrote:
Goody..more reason for the real crooks to raise taxes
Don't the numbers lend themselves towards life vs. the death penalty. Seems like I've heard that the death penalty is more expensive. I've never seen any backup to that statement though.

But I agree none the less. They raise taxes for no good reason.
huck
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2/25/2015 6:19am
newmann wrote:
Life without parole.
Old-Man wrote:
Goody..more reason for the real crooks to raise taxes
IWreckALot wrote:
Don't the numbers lend themselves towards life vs. the death penalty. Seems like I've heard that the death penalty is more expensive. I've never seen any...
Don't the numbers lend themselves towards life vs. the death penalty. Seems like I've heard that the death penalty is more expensive. I've never seen any backup to that statement though.

But I agree none the less. They raise taxes for no good reason.
500 yards and a .556 round shouldn't cost more than $4 or $5....
Atmos
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2/25/2015 7:01am
I don't think there was ever any doubt he was guilty of killing those two men.

The PTSD issue is seperate, in my opinion. I have a close member of my family who suffers greatly from PTSD after numerous tours in the middle east. He has nightmares continuously. He fears sleep like some people fear snakes.
There are times when he finds himself with his 9mm pistol sitting in the street or in his backyard hiding. From what, he's not sure. The VA has been of absolute no help and continue to change his appointments. I fear, though, he may never make an appointment if he continues down the dark path he's found himself on. Perhaps Eddie Ray Routh is on the same dark path that so many others have found themselves on. Perhaps we'll never know. I won't pass judgement only baseed on the victim's perceived celebrity status.

Suicide by PTSD amongst our veterans is real. We must address it.

Atmos
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2/25/2015 7:03am
Huck, why 500 yards?

Why not from 5 yards? 500 yards lets you believe it's not as personal?

Which branch did you serve? And, have you sent rounds down range to kill another man in a combat situation? Have you had to hold the hand of a fellow soldier and listen to their last breaths as they choke and gargle on their own blood pooling up in their chest as they cry for loved ones?
huck
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2/25/2015 7:31am
Atmos wrote:
Huck, why 500 yards? Why not from 5 yards? 500 yards lets you believe it's not as personal? Which branch did you serve? And, have you...
Huck, why 500 yards?

Why not from 5 yards? 500 yards lets you believe it's not as personal?

Which branch did you serve? And, have you sent rounds down range to kill another man in a combat situation? Have you had to hold the hand of a fellow soldier and listen to their last breaths as they choke and gargle on their own blood pooling up in their chest as they cry for loved ones?
Ok, I'll do it from 5 fucking inches..... Line it up and i'll be there...I'll even bring my own rifle and ammo.


Regarding the PTSD...I don't care what he 'suffers' from...he killed two men. He should face judgement. This whole "he can't stand trail for reason of insanity"... no shit, no normal person kills two men like that, of course he's insane. He still deserves to face his punishment, regardless of his mental status.
newmann
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2/25/2015 7:53am
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell the police he was a mil vet and suffered PTSD. Obviously cried wolf too many times. He knew what he was doing so f'k him. If he was suffering as bad as he wanted every one else to believe, he could have just shot himself.
sgthubbard#60
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2/25/2015 8:41am
Rot in hell but only after years and years of being fucked in the mouth and every other available hole. Perfect punishemt if you ask me.
IWreckALot
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2/25/2015 8:44am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2015 8:45am
newmann wrote:
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell...
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell the police he was a mil vet and suffered PTSD. Obviously cried wolf too many times. He knew what he was doing so f'k him. If he was suffering as bad as he wanted every one else to believe, he could have just shot himself.
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from the military use the card as often as they can and I don't like that.

I have a former good friend that was discharged (he says honorably) from marine boot camp who claims to have PTSD and claims that he's a marine through and through. If you didn't know any better you would swear he was a high ranking officer or something. It drove me nuts.

With Routh, I give him a little benefit of the doubt. I think he deserved punishment but the death penalty stretches my conscience a little. As arrogant and immoral some of the military can be, they still signed up for an essentially thankless job and put their life on the line.

9 times out of 10 I favor the death penalty. But this one, where it was known he had PTSD, I say a lifetime sentence is alright.
APLMAN99
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2/25/2015 8:52am
Atmos wrote:
I don't think there was ever any doubt he was guilty of killing those two men. The PTSD issue is seperate, in my opinion. I have...
I don't think there was ever any doubt he was guilty of killing those two men.

The PTSD issue is seperate, in my opinion. I have a close member of my family who suffers greatly from PTSD after numerous tours in the middle east. He has nightmares continuously. He fears sleep like some people fear snakes.
There are times when he finds himself with his 9mm pistol sitting in the street or in his backyard hiding. From what, he's not sure. The VA has been of absolute no help and continue to change his appointments. I fear, though, he may never make an appointment if he continues down the dark path he's found himself on. Perhaps Eddie Ray Routh is on the same dark path that so many others have found themselves on. Perhaps we'll never know. I won't pass judgement only baseed on the victim's perceived celebrity status.

Suicide by PTSD amongst our veterans is real. We must address it.

Sounds like trying to talk him out of that 9mm while he is lucid might be a good idea.......

I'm a gun rights supporter, but your family member's issues would make me very nervous, that's for sure. Hopefully he never finds himself in the street with that gun in his hand and a dead neighbor kid at his feet, wondering what actually happened.
huck
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2/25/2015 8:53am
newmann wrote:
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell...
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell the police he was a mil vet and suffered PTSD. Obviously cried wolf too many times. He knew what he was doing so f'k him. If he was suffering as bad as he wanted every one else to believe, he could have just shot himself.
IWreckALot wrote:
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from...
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from the military use the card as often as they can and I don't like that.

I have a former good friend that was discharged (he says honorably) from marine boot camp who claims to have PTSD and claims that he's a marine through and through. If you didn't know any better you would swear he was a high ranking officer or something. It drove me nuts.

With Routh, I give him a little benefit of the doubt. I think he deserved punishment but the death penalty stretches my conscience a little. As arrogant and immoral some of the military can be, they still signed up for an essentially thankless job and put their life on the line.

9 times out of 10 I favor the death penalty. But this one, where it was known he had PTSD, I say a lifetime sentence is alright.
How could somebody have "PTSD" from "Marine Boot Camp"???
APLMAN99
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2/25/2015 8:57am
I haven't followed the trial or the case in general all that much, but saw the jury being interviewed on one of the morning news programs. One thing sort of stood out that was a little surprising. When asked if any of them had seen the movie American Sniper, one juror said that he had. I would not be surprised to see an appeal or attempt to throw out the verdict based on that, but not sure exactly how that works.
IWreckALot
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2/25/2015 8:57am
newmann wrote:
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell...
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell the police he was a mil vet and suffered PTSD. Obviously cried wolf too many times. He knew what he was doing so f'k him. If he was suffering as bad as he wanted every one else to believe, he could have just shot himself.
IWreckALot wrote:
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from...
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from the military use the card as often as they can and I don't like that.

I have a former good friend that was discharged (he says honorably) from marine boot camp who claims to have PTSD and claims that he's a marine through and through. If you didn't know any better you would swear he was a high ranking officer or something. It drove me nuts.

With Routh, I give him a little benefit of the doubt. I think he deserved punishment but the death penalty stretches my conscience a little. As arrogant and immoral some of the military can be, they still signed up for an essentially thankless job and put their life on the line.

9 times out of 10 I favor the death penalty. But this one, where it was known he had PTSD, I say a lifetime sentence is alright.
huck wrote:
How could somebody have "PTSD" from "Marine Boot Camp"???
Great question. Part of a reason that he is a "former" good friend rather than currently a good friend. He was full of shit.
APLMAN99
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2/25/2015 9:03am
newmann wrote:
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell...
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell the police he was a mil vet and suffered PTSD. Obviously cried wolf too many times. He knew what he was doing so f'k him. If he was suffering as bad as he wanted every one else to believe, he could have just shot himself.
IWreckALot wrote:
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from...
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from the military use the card as often as they can and I don't like that.

I have a former good friend that was discharged (he says honorably) from marine boot camp who claims to have PTSD and claims that he's a marine through and through. If you didn't know any better you would swear he was a high ranking officer or something. It drove me nuts.

With Routh, I give him a little benefit of the doubt. I think he deserved punishment but the death penalty stretches my conscience a little. As arrogant and immoral some of the military can be, they still signed up for an essentially thankless job and put their life on the line.

9 times out of 10 I favor the death penalty. But this one, where it was known he had PTSD, I say a lifetime sentence is alright.
huck wrote:
How could somebody have "PTSD" from "Marine Boot Camp"???
Well the obvious answer is to suffer a trauma that imprints so deeply that it affects you to a great deal. PTSD isn't solely related to combat. My youngest daughter was diagnosed with it due to some of the things that occurred to her before we adopted her. Thankfully she had some wonderful counsellors who have nearly eliminated the effects, but it took a long time.

huck
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2/25/2015 9:07am
IWreckALot wrote:
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from...
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from the military use the card as often as they can and I don't like that.

I have a former good friend that was discharged (he says honorably) from marine boot camp who claims to have PTSD and claims that he's a marine through and through. If you didn't know any better you would swear he was a high ranking officer or something. It drove me nuts.

With Routh, I give him a little benefit of the doubt. I think he deserved punishment but the death penalty stretches my conscience a little. As arrogant and immoral some of the military can be, they still signed up for an essentially thankless job and put their life on the line.

9 times out of 10 I favor the death penalty. But this one, where it was known he had PTSD, I say a lifetime sentence is alright.
huck wrote:
How could somebody have "PTSD" from "Marine Boot Camp"???
APLMAN99 wrote:
Well the obvious answer is to suffer a trauma that imprints so deeply that it affects you to a great deal. PTSD isn't solely related to...
Well the obvious answer is to suffer a trauma that imprints so deeply that it affects you to a great deal. PTSD isn't solely related to combat. My youngest daughter was diagnosed with it due to some of the things that occurred to her before we adopted her. Thankfully she had some wonderful counsellors who have nearly eliminated the effects, but it took a long time.

Glad to hear that she got the help that she needed.

For IWreck's friend...I'd say it's an attention issue...and and easy 'cop out'.
APLMAN99
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2/25/2015 9:17am
huck wrote:
Glad to hear that she got the help that she needed.

For IWreck's friend...I'd say it's an attention issue...and and easy 'cop out'.
That's certainly possible. Hard to say given the limited amount of information.

Heck, he may have been gang raped for all we know, or maybe something a lot less "traumatic" to you or I, and just processed it entirely differently than most people would.
2/25/2015 9:26am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2015 9:27am
huck wrote:
Ok, I'll do it from 5 fucking inches..... Line it up and i'll be there...I'll even bring my own rifle and ammo. Regarding the PTSD...I don't...
Ok, I'll do it from 5 fucking inches..... Line it up and i'll be there...I'll even bring my own rifle and ammo.


Regarding the PTSD...I don't care what he 'suffers' from...he killed two men. He should face judgement. This whole "he can't stand trail for reason of insanity"... no shit, no normal person kills two men like that, of course he's insane. He still deserves to face his punishment, regardless of his mental status.
There are certain circumstances where some individuals literally have no concept of reality and are wondering around in a dream like state. Not saying that applies here in this particular case, but people like that do genuinely exist and can't really be held accountable in the way that a normal person would.
rocrac
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2/25/2015 9:38am
newmann wrote:
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell...
From what it sounds like, Routh used the PTSD as an out to every thing he did. Every time he got in trouble he would tell the police he was a mil vet and suffered PTSD. Obviously cried wolf too many times. He knew what he was doing so f'k him. If he was suffering as bad as he wanted every one else to believe, he could have just shot himself.
IWreckALot wrote:
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from...
I'll admit that I don't know all the details. I didn't follow it very closely. I do know a LOT of people that come home from the military use the card as often as they can and I don't like that.

I have a former good friend that was discharged (he says honorably) from marine boot camp who claims to have PTSD and claims that he's a marine through and through. If you didn't know any better you would swear he was a high ranking officer or something. It drove me nuts.

With Routh, I give him a little benefit of the doubt. I think he deserved punishment but the death penalty stretches my conscience a little. As arrogant and immoral some of the military can be, they still signed up for an essentially thankless job and put their life on the line.

9 times out of 10 I favor the death penalty. But this one, where it was known he had PTSD, I say a lifetime sentence is alright.
huck wrote:
How could somebody have "PTSD" from "Marine Boot Camp"???
Sounds to me like he DOR ed Marine boot camp or got the boot for being jacked to begin with.
huck
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2/25/2015 9:46am
huck wrote:
Ok, I'll do it from 5 fucking inches..... Line it up and i'll be there...I'll even bring my own rifle and ammo. Regarding the PTSD...I don't...
Ok, I'll do it from 5 fucking inches..... Line it up and i'll be there...I'll even bring my own rifle and ammo.


Regarding the PTSD...I don't care what he 'suffers' from...he killed two men. He should face judgement. This whole "he can't stand trail for reason of insanity"... no shit, no normal person kills two men like that, of course he's insane. He still deserves to face his punishment, regardless of his mental status.
There are certain circumstances where some individuals literally have no concept of reality and are wondering around in a dream like state. Not saying that applies...
There are certain circumstances where some individuals literally have no concept of reality and are wondering around in a dream like state. Not saying that applies here in this particular case, but people like that do genuinely exist and can't really be held accountable in the way that a normal person would.
"and can't really be held accountable in the way that a normal person would."

The fuck they can't be!
Xracerdone
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2/25/2015 11:19am
I read, and this was in passing so I don't know the validity, but the shooter was yelling Allah Akbar when he shot Chris but they didn't allow the witness testimony? I also read the guy never saw combat, not sure how he could have PTSD?
huck
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2/25/2015 11:36am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2015 11:37am
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty of killing them, or innocent.



I'm sorry young boy, your dad won't be coming home. But it's ok, the guy that did it had PTSD so he didn't mean to.
IWreckALot
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2/25/2015 11:43am
huck wrote:
Glad to hear that she got the help that she needed.

For IWreck's friend...I'd say it's an attention issue...and and easy 'cop out'.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's certainly possible. Hard to say given the limited amount of information. Heck, he may have been gang raped for all we know, or maybe something...
That's certainly possible. Hard to say given the limited amount of information.

Heck, he may have been gang raped for all we know, or maybe something a lot less "traumatic" to you or I, and just processed it entirely differently than most people would.
It was an attention issue. Ha. He said a lot of things that were almost true but not quite. I think a Dr. diagnosing him as PTSD was an exaggeration of simply anxiety.
sgthubbard#60
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2/25/2015 1:46pm
huck wrote:
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty...
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty of killing them, or innocent.



I'm sorry young boy, your dad won't be coming home. But it's ok, the guy that did it had PTSD so he didn't mean to.
Absolutely right Huck, this world puts an excuse on everything now. Just like how it's okay for every kid to be an asshole now because they have ADHD. All of them?! Bullshit, little Johnny is just a little asshole. This piece of shit MURDERED two people and there is no excuse for that. PTSD or not. Rot in hell.
APLMAN99
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2/25/2015 3:31pm
huck wrote:
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty...
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty of killing them, or innocent.



I'm sorry young boy, your dad won't be coming home. But it's ok, the guy that did it had PTSD so he didn't mean to.
That's an interesting position given your defense of people who've killed others........
huck
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2/26/2015 5:45am
huck wrote:
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty...
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty of killing them, or innocent.



I'm sorry young boy, your dad won't be coming home. But it's ok, the guy that did it had PTSD so he didn't mean to.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's an interesting position given your defense of people who've killed others........
It is? Please explain?

If you're referring to the Martin and Brown killings....I would hardly consider them 'innocent'.
APLMAN99
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2/26/2015 11:23am
huck wrote:
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty...
Boo fucking hoo.... even if he had PTSD, he killed 2 men. That's the only thing that needs to be 'weighed against' whether he was guilty of killing them, or innocent.



I'm sorry young boy, your dad won't be coming home. But it's ok, the guy that did it had PTSD so he didn't mean to.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's an interesting position given your defense of people who've killed others........
huck wrote:
It is? Please explain?

If you're referring to the Martin and Brown killings....I would hardly consider them 'innocent'.
Using your new found rationale, their killers either killed them (and therefore should have been found guilty and been put to death themselves) or they were innocent.

Suddenly you seem to have taken on a completely different philosophy......
Skippie
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2/26/2015 11:34am
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's an interesting position given your defense of people who've killed others........
huck wrote:
It is? Please explain?

If you're referring to the Martin and Brown killings....I would hardly consider them 'innocent'.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Using your new found rationale, their killers either killed them (and therefore should have been found guilty and been put to death themselves) or they were...
Using your new found rationale, their killers either killed them (and therefore should have been found guilty and been put to death themselves) or they were innocent.

Suddenly you seem to have taken on a completely different philosophy......
There's a HUGE difference between killing two innocent men, and two criminals.

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