Financial question

APLMAN99
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9/13/2016 6:35am
Now you're reaching incredibly. I am renting right now, we just moved back to the area and are planning to build this time. I'm still responsible to mow my grass, etc. I've never rented a single family home where I didn't have to do basic yard work.

Considering that rent over that period would have been more than the sum of my house payments, you have to really try hard to not recognize it as a very good investment.

Of course not every transaction or market is like this. That was my original point, your blanket statement was a silly cliche and shouldn't be treated as anything else.
9/13/2016 7:01am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Now you're reaching incredibly. I am renting right now, we just moved back to the area and are planning to build this time. I'm still responsible...
Now you're reaching incredibly. I am renting right now, we just moved back to the area and are planning to build this time. I'm still responsible to mow my grass, etc. I've never rented a single family home where I didn't have to do basic yard work.

Considering that rent over that period would have been more than the sum of my house payments, you have to really try hard to not recognize it as a very good investment.

Of course not every transaction or market is like this. That was my original point, your blanket statement was a silly cliche and shouldn't be treated as anything else.
Building is usually a can't miss investment. It sounds like you are in an excellent market and will do well with this next venture.

As for me reaching I am not. I am a contractor by trade and labor is what most people get wrong. I hear all the time that people did this or that themselves. When they could easily have hired it done for less and put in a few more hours at their day job. People forget that labor has a value. My competition forgets this as well. The average contractor bids a job as materials plus labor. They consider labor profit and it's not, labor is money I would be making anyway regardless. To properly bid a job we generally take labor plus materials and triple it. That's not the exact formula but it simplifies it

Your market is crazy! These dumps wouldn't bring half what they are asking here. I also see that Safeguard was doing the property maintenance and that tells me there will be plumbing, mold, and electrical issues. No qualified contractor will work for Safeguard. When you see those orange stickers be afraid be very afraid.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61948391_zpid/50000-125000…

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61939928_zpid/50000-125000…

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61939005_zpid/50000-125000…

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61939005_zpid/50000-125000…
9/13/2016 7:09am
Because rent rises but so do taxes and and other expenses so it basically offsets.

Also most people rent far more than what they need. America is against living modestly for the most part.

The argument that you have to live somewhere is nothing more than justifying a bad decision. I can rent an adequate place for very little. If you would rent a cheap place and invest the extra every month for 10 years you would have far more money than your friends who buy homes and put their money back into the house.
MR. X
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9/13/2016 7:13am
I don't believe a home is a good investment and some here disagree. I proved by using numbers and basic math that a home is actually...
I don't believe a home is a good investment and some here disagree. I proved by using numbers and basic math that a home is actually a pretty poor investment. They argued that it's a good investment. They have no valid reason for believing this other than its what they have been told their whole lives.

Wouldn't the area depend on that? I'm not educated on the housing market but you should see the fucking shit holes in Buffalo that are selling for huge money latley . For some reason, people are flocking to buffalo and are paying way more then the houses are worth.

The Shop

APLMAN99
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9/13/2016 7:16am
Yes, plus not doing the math correctly himself.

Using his cousin's case as an example, he was focused on the purchase and selling price to note what he considered a low return.

The real numbers should concern total outlay (sum of all house payments plus repairs, etc. that a landlord would handle in a rental) vs. total of rent payments during that period. Without knowing that market, it's probably a safe assumption that the cousin's outlay was higher than rent initially, but gradually became lower. In our situation it only took a year or so before rents rose above our payments, and pretty much our total outlay. That doesn't even factor in our tax deduction benefit or the tax free status of the proceeds of selling our home.

Obviously if you live in an area where homes simply don't appreciate and rents are stagnant, it could be a different outcome and purchasing a primary home as a short term investment can be ill advised, but my experience isn't a rarity. It's probably the norm here in the Northwest.
APLMAN99
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9/13/2016 7:26am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Now you're reaching incredibly. I am renting right now, we just moved back to the area and are planning to build this time. I'm still responsible...
Now you're reaching incredibly. I am renting right now, we just moved back to the area and are planning to build this time. I'm still responsible to mow my grass, etc. I've never rented a single family home where I didn't have to do basic yard work.

Considering that rent over that period would have been more than the sum of my house payments, you have to really try hard to not recognize it as a very good investment.

Of course not every transaction or market is like this. That was my original point, your blanket statement was a silly cliche and shouldn't be treated as anything else.
Building is usually a can't miss investment. It sounds like you are in an excellent market and will do well with this next venture. As for...
Building is usually a can't miss investment. It sounds like you are in an excellent market and will do well with this next venture.

As for me reaching I am not. I am a contractor by trade and labor is what most people get wrong. I hear all the time that people did this or that themselves. When they could easily have hired it done for less and put in a few more hours at their day job. People forget that labor has a value. My competition forgets this as well. The average contractor bids a job as materials plus labor. They consider labor profit and it's not, labor is money I would be making anyway regardless. To properly bid a job we generally take labor plus materials and triple it. That's not the exact formula but it simplifies it

Your market is crazy! These dumps wouldn't bring half what they are asking here. I also see that Safeguard was doing the property maintenance and that tells me there will be plumbing, mold, and electrical issues. No qualified contractor will work for Safeguard. When you see those orange stickers be afraid be very afraid.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61948391_zpid/50000-125000…

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61939928_zpid/50000-125000…

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61939005_zpid/50000-125000…

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/fore_lt/61939005_zpid/50000-125000…
Those homes are definitely not in my market area. Even Wenatchee and Lake Chelan are quite a bit different from each other.

Moses Lake was growing very rapidly for a while. Unbelievably cheap power and relatively cheap labor with a community college that would tailor programs for just about any industry. One of their largest employers was that air bag manufacturer (Takata?) and I think they've really curtailed production. But they have a HUGE runway at their little airport that anything can fly in and out on, and 300+ days of sunshine each year. For decades each and every JAL pilot did training in Moses Lake because they never missed flight time due to weather.

But Moses Lake is far different of a housing market than ours is.

And labor in this case doesn't really apply because I'd be doing the yard work in a rental anyway.

As for whether people buy or rent more than what you think they 'need', that's an entirely different subject and not relevant to this comparison.
borg
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9/13/2016 7:31am
I have rented since 2003 when I sold my house. (Divorce). I have rented 3 different houses and all of them included a gardener. I have never done any yard work since I sold. What that means is I paid to have it done. You pay for yard maintenance whether you own or rent, unless you do it yourself, which I did when I owned. I liked it. What I could never understand is my neighbor who would hire somebody to mow his lawn and then pay for a monthly contract to a gym so he could get some exercise. Anyway, the monthly cost for living in a house is just slightly more here for renting vs owning. DF lists property repairs as an additional cost for owners. It's not. When you rent, you pay all costs of ownership. As an owner, you may decide to spend more on a kitchen remodel than a landlord would, but that's on you. At the end of 20 years, deducting the 20g down, I netted 160g that I would not have had, renting. To make it simple, I netted an annual return of 8g on my 20g investment over 20 years. That's a hell of a dividend. Putting it another way my actual monthly cost was $666 less than what rent would have been. For me it turned out well. Very well. But like DF said, it's in the details. One of the houses I rented was foreclosed on. The owner had 640g in loans. When the house finally sold, it went for 380g. It didn't turn out so well for him. The dumbass tried to collect rent after the Sheriffs auction. I told him to get fucked. Never heard from him again.
newmann
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9/13/2016 7:40am
borg wrote:
I have rented since 2003 when I sold my house. (Divorce). I have rented 3 different houses and all of them included a gardener. I have...
I have rented since 2003 when I sold my house. (Divorce). I have rented 3 different houses and all of them included a gardener. I have never done any yard work since I sold. What that means is I paid to have it done. You pay for yard maintenance whether you own or rent, unless you do it yourself, which I did when I owned. I liked it. What I could never understand is my neighbor who would hire somebody to mow his lawn and then pay for a monthly contract to a gym so he could get some exercise. Anyway, the monthly cost for living in a house is just slightly more here for renting vs owning. DF lists property repairs as an additional cost for owners. It's not. When you rent, you pay all costs of ownership. As an owner, you may decide to spend more on a kitchen remodel than a landlord would, but that's on you. At the end of 20 years, deducting the 20g down, I netted 160g that I would not have had, renting. To make it simple, I netted an annual return of 8g on my 20g investment over 20 years. That's a hell of a dividend. Putting it another way my actual monthly cost was $666 less than what rent would have been. For me it turned out well. Very well. But like DF said, it's in the details. One of the houses I rented was foreclosed on. The owner had 640g in loans. When the house finally sold, it went for 380g. It didn't turn out so well for him. The dumbass tried to collect rent after the Sheriffs auction. I told him to get fucked. Never heard from him again.
What does a $640,000.00 house that is only worth $380,000.00 rent for out there?
borg
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9/13/2016 7:46am
borg wrote:
I have rented since 2003 when I sold my house. (Divorce). I have rented 3 different houses and all of them included a gardener. I have...
I have rented since 2003 when I sold my house. (Divorce). I have rented 3 different houses and all of them included a gardener. I have never done any yard work since I sold. What that means is I paid to have it done. You pay for yard maintenance whether you own or rent, unless you do it yourself, which I did when I owned. I liked it. What I could never understand is my neighbor who would hire somebody to mow his lawn and then pay for a monthly contract to a gym so he could get some exercise. Anyway, the monthly cost for living in a house is just slightly more here for renting vs owning. DF lists property repairs as an additional cost for owners. It's not. When you rent, you pay all costs of ownership. As an owner, you may decide to spend more on a kitchen remodel than a landlord would, but that's on you. At the end of 20 years, deducting the 20g down, I netted 160g that I would not have had, renting. To make it simple, I netted an annual return of 8g on my 20g investment over 20 years. That's a hell of a dividend. Putting it another way my actual monthly cost was $666 less than what rent would have been. For me it turned out well. Very well. But like DF said, it's in the details. One of the houses I rented was foreclosed on. The owner had 640g in loans. When the house finally sold, it went for 380g. It didn't turn out so well for him. The dumbass tried to collect rent after the Sheriffs auction. I told him to get fucked. Never heard from him again.
newmann wrote:
What does a $640,000.00 house that is only worth $380,000.00 rent for out there?
He got caught in the RE collapse. He bought in 2005 and sold in 2008. I was paying 2g a month in rent while I was there over that same period. Not sure how he ended up with 640g in loans though. He probably borrowed against it after the original purchase as house prices were going up 30 to 40% per year in this area.
newmann
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9/13/2016 8:03am
borg wrote:
He got caught in the RE collapse. He bought in 2005 and sold in 2008. I was paying 2g a month in rent while I was...
He got caught in the RE collapse. He bought in 2005 and sold in 2008. I was paying 2g a month in rent while I was there over that same period. Not sure how he ended up with 640g in loans though. He probably borrowed against it after the original purchase as house prices were going up 30 to 40% per year in this area.
Crazy, he wasn't even covering half the note with rent at 30 damn years. I watched all those numbers through those years just scratching my head wondering when it would all come crashing down. Didn't take long...lol.

I had a couple friends out in Ca. that sold house after house and made an absolute killing. Ended up leaving the state in the end as it was too expensive to buy a house.Laughing

borg
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9/13/2016 8:06am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Yes, plus not doing the math correctly himself. Using his cousin's case as an example, he was focused on the purchase and selling price to note...
Yes, plus not doing the math correctly himself.

Using his cousin's case as an example, he was focused on the purchase and selling price to note what he considered a low return.

The real numbers should concern total outlay (sum of all house payments plus repairs, etc. that a landlord would handle in a rental) vs. total of rent payments during that period. Without knowing that market, it's probably a safe assumption that the cousin's outlay was higher than rent initially, but gradually became lower. In our situation it only took a year or so before rents rose above our payments, and pretty much our total outlay. That doesn't even factor in our tax deduction benefit or the tax free status of the proceeds of selling our home.

Obviously if you live in an area where homes simply don't appreciate and rents are stagnant, it could be a different outcome and purchasing a primary home as a short term investment can be ill advised, but my experience isn't a rarity. It's probably the norm here in the Northwest.
Concerning the mortgage deduction issue, remember that the owner of rental property also gets huge tax benefits. All costs associated with the rental property are deductible as well depreciation. The only benefit a live in owner gets that a landlord owner doesn't is the tax free profits on the sale of the property. This only matters if the actual rent price of the house is calculated on a cost plus basis, meaning that the savings are passed on to the renter. Which would mean it's a wash. But in reality, at least here, rent prices are more a demand factor and not a cost plus profit arrangement. Right now, houses around here are going for around 500g and rent is around 2500/month for that house. A quick run of the numbers says that rent = monthly payment. Which means very good return for the property owner when deductions are taken into account.
borg
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9/13/2016 8:15am
borg wrote:
He got caught in the RE collapse. He bought in 2005 and sold in 2008. I was paying 2g a month in rent while I was...
He got caught in the RE collapse. He bought in 2005 and sold in 2008. I was paying 2g a month in rent while I was there over that same period. Not sure how he ended up with 640g in loans though. He probably borrowed against it after the original purchase as house prices were going up 30 to 40% per year in this area.
newmann wrote:
Crazy, he wasn't even covering half the note with rent at 30 damn years. I watched all those numbers through those years just scratching my head...
Crazy, he wasn't even covering half the note with rent at 30 damn years. I watched all those numbers through those years just scratching my head wondering when it would all come crashing down. Didn't take long...lol.

I had a couple friends out in Ca. that sold house after house and made an absolute killing. Ended up leaving the state in the end as it was too expensive to buy a house.Laughing

That's what happened to me. I sold in 2003 for 383g. I payed 100g but that's really irrelevant. I netted 160g and split it with the wife. I started looking and prices quickly went to 400g, 500g and even 600g. No way I could make a down payment with only 80g and I thank the stars I didn't as very soon after, prices were cut in half. By that time as a contractor, the crash didn't leave me enough even then. With no equity, people stopped building. It fucked me for 5 years. I tried to get rich friends to fund me for flipping but they were all too scared. Don't blame them. it was fucking scary around here.
9/13/2016 11:13am
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living.

My house is paid for. I bought it at a tax sale gutted it and sunk a healthy chunk in it to get it how I wanted. If I had sold then I would have netted a nice sum. Instead every year I live there I lose money.

The amount I have tied up would be netting me a far greater return if I had it in play.

The little woman loves our house and it's where she wants to be so I continue on this path.

I would sell it all and not even have a house. I'm tired of being a slave to it all. They make some damn fine RV's and my gypsy soul liked to travel.
JAFO92
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9/13/2016 11:27am
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living. My house is paid for. I...
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living.

My house is paid for. I bought it at a tax sale gutted it and sunk a healthy chunk in it to get it how I wanted. If I had sold then I would have netted a nice sum. Instead every year I live there I lose money.

The amount I have tied up would be netting me a far greater return if I had it in play.

The little woman loves our house and it's where she wants to be so I continue on this path.

I would sell it all and not even have a house. I'm tired of being a slave to it all. They make some damn fine RV's and my gypsy soul liked to travel.
Gypsy? I got a C-note that says you will be back in the country makin' hay and punchin' cattle before its all over and they put your ass in the ground.

You aint foolin' me country boy. Wink
MR. X
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9/13/2016 11:29am
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living. My house is paid for. I...
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living.

My house is paid for. I bought it at a tax sale gutted it and sunk a healthy chunk in it to get it how I wanted. If I had sold then I would have netted a nice sum. Instead every year I live there I lose money.

The amount I have tied up would be netting me a far greater return if I had it in play.

The little woman loves our house and it's where she wants to be so I continue on this path.

I would sell it all and not even have a house. I'm tired of being a slave to it all. They make some damn fine RV's and my gypsy soul liked to travel.
My dad retires this year ,he has a 5th wheel at his camp up here and plans to set up another camp down in Florida and just bounce back and forth.
9/13/2016 1:46pm
I have a 5th wheel with 2 slide outs now and it's worth about 6,000.00 more than what I paid for it. I love the thing once we get it parked but I don't enjoy pulling it. For some reason it makes me a nervous wreck. We have had flats twice and maybe that makes me the way I am.

A house boat in key west is also a good option. I just don't want to cut grass, maintain a home, or deal with people. I like wide open spaces and no one around to talk to.
9/13/2016 1:47pm
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living. My house is paid for. I...
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living.

My house is paid for. I bought it at a tax sale gutted it and sunk a healthy chunk in it to get it how I wanted. If I had sold then I would have netted a nice sum. Instead every year I live there I lose money.

The amount I have tied up would be netting me a far greater return if I had it in play.

The little woman loves our house and it's where she wants to be so I continue on this path.

I would sell it all and not even have a house. I'm tired of being a slave to it all. They make some damn fine RV's and my gypsy soul liked to travel.
JAFO92 wrote:
Gypsy? I got a C-note that says you will be back in the country makin' hay and punchin' cattle before its all over and they put...
Gypsy? I got a C-note that says you will be back in the country makin' hay and punchin' cattle before its all over and they put your ass in the ground.

You aint foolin' me country boy. Wink
I need about 200 more acres then maybe.
borg
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9/13/2016 2:24pm
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living. My house is paid for. I...
Not I get what you are saying and as everyone had said there are certain inherent costs associated with living.

My house is paid for. I bought it at a tax sale gutted it and sunk a healthy chunk in it to get it how I wanted. If I had sold then I would have netted a nice sum. Instead every year I live there I lose money.

The amount I have tied up would be netting me a far greater return if I had it in play.

The little woman loves our house and it's where she wants to be so I continue on this path.

I would sell it all and not even have a house. I'm tired of being a slave to it all. They make some damn fine RV's and my gypsy soul liked to travel.
Now you're talking. Get a nice RV, make some new friends around the country , and then go where the weather suits my clothes. RIP Harry Nilsson
borg
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9/13/2016 2:36pm
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that I will be there next month. It happened to me twice. Once, the owner died and the kids sold the property to people who were going to live there. The next one, the owner defaulted and the bank evicted me. Moving is a !@#$%^ hassle and expensive. Finding a place that will accept two kids and a dog further cuts down on your options. All the address change bullshit, changing schools and more that I cant think of right now.

Krallang
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9/13/2016 4:02pm
Simple math if I invest 100,000 in a safe investment that gives a modest 4% return and keep rolling over the dividends what do I have...
Simple math if I invest 100,000 in a safe investment that gives a modest 4% return and keep rolling over the dividends what do I have in 30 years?

If I invest that same 100,000.00 into a home I pay taxes of around 1800 per year on average. So for 30 years assuming they don't go up I pay 54,000 but they will go up and in reality I will pay closer to 70,000.00 in taxes on my 100,000 investment in 30 years.

Then you have maintenance issues. Water heater, HVAC, new roof, new bathrooms, new kitchens, the average homeowner spends roughly 4500.00 a year on maintenance related items. That's 135,000.00 over your 30 year mortgage.

Then you have your continued maintenance Like lawn care, landscaping, having the HVAC serviced. Let's say you are a do it yourselfer. You might keep those costs in the 300-500 range? So over 30 years you spend 9,000 on the low side.

Then we have interest. On a 100,000 loan with insurance and taxes escrowed you will be around $805.00 per month give or take depending on interest rate and credit rating etc. The total payment on your loan is $805, so $750 goes towards interest, and only $55 goes towards principal -- meaning only $55 goes towards paying back the $100,000 you borrowed. As more time goes by you will pay less interest and more principal but in the end you will pay well over $400,000 for your 100,000 house that needed all that maintenance and improvements.

The crazy thing to me is someone will sell that 100,000.00 house after 30 years for 130,000 and tell me they made 30k by living there.

All the while there is barely an investment in anyone's portfolio that won't return 3-4% annually.
What safe investment is going to make you a 4% annual return in these markets. I have a few million and right now everyone is simply trying to break even until we have a better market.
Krallang
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9/13/2016 4:21pm
borg wrote:
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that...
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that I will be there next month. It happened to me twice. Once, the owner died and the kids sold the property to people who were going to live there. The next one, the owner defaulted and the bank evicted me. Moving is a !@#$%^ hassle and expensive. Finding a place that will accept two kids and a dog further cuts down on your options. All the address change bullshit, changing schools and more that I cant think of right now.

Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house?

Anyone painting with such a broad stroke are up to no good IMO. There are good investments and bad. That applies to buying a home as well.
9/14/2016 5:27am
borg wrote:
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that...
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that I will be there next month. It happened to me twice. Once, the owner died and the kids sold the property to people who were going to live there. The next one, the owner defaulted and the bank evicted me. Moving is a !@#$%^ hassle and expensive. Finding a place that will accept two kids and a dog further cuts down on your options. All the address change bullshit, changing schools and more that I cant think of right now.

Krallang wrote:
Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house? Anyone painting with such...
Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house?

Anyone painting with such a broad stroke are up to no good IMO. There are good investments and bad. That applies to buying a home as well.
You haven't been following the thread. A property can be a great investment. Living in a home for 30 years and paying interest, maintenance, remodeling costs, taxes, HOA fees, etc is where people lose money. In some markets like California and according to someone in this thread Buffalo money can be made because property values increase dramatically.

If you have a couple of million and you can't get a 4% return you should fire your broker. I can guarantee a 10% return through Tax liens backed by the state of Indiana. Anyone that isn't making greater than 4% on their investments isn't trying.
Krallang
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9/14/2016 9:17pm
borg wrote:
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that...
BTW there are some benefits to owning which are not financial. I'm really tired of the downside of being a renter and never really sure that I will be there next month. It happened to me twice. Once, the owner died and the kids sold the property to people who were going to live there. The next one, the owner defaulted and the bank evicted me. Moving is a !@#$%^ hassle and expensive. Finding a place that will accept two kids and a dog further cuts down on your options. All the address change bullshit, changing schools and more that I cant think of right now.

Krallang wrote:
Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house? Anyone painting with such...
Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house?

Anyone painting with such a broad stroke are up to no good IMO. There are good investments and bad. That applies to buying a home as well.
You haven't been following the thread. A property can be a great investment. Living in a home for 30 years and paying interest, maintenance, remodeling costs...
You haven't been following the thread. A property can be a great investment. Living in a home for 30 years and paying interest, maintenance, remodeling costs, taxes, HOA fees, etc is where people lose money. In some markets like California and according to someone in this thread Buffalo money can be made because property values increase dramatically.

If you have a couple of million and you can't get a 4% return you should fire your broker. I can guarantee a 10% return through Tax liens backed by the state of Indiana. Anyone that isn't making greater than 4% on their investments isn't trying.
10% a year through tax liens?
Hahahahaha.

I guess some sucker will believe that from you, but nobody is getting that right now.

We are making more than 4% on some of the more risky stock investments, but nobody is seeing those type of returns right now. That goes from Ronald Blue to lesser known as well.
9/15/2016 7:03am
I only agree with about half of what dirty filter says but I'm afraid he might be right on the 10%. And it may even be 15% after 6 months. I recently checked in on buying houses here at the court house for tax foreclosures but quickly learned I don't know near enough about it to feel safe. If you're the high bid I think the current home owner has to pay you 10% on your winning bid of the property to retain it and has a year or so to do it. If they don't, they can lose the property. As the winning bidder you have to pay the back taxes and the taxes for the current year even though you don't really own the property yet. Many other hoops to jump through and papers to file and If you don't do it right and on time I think it's possible to lose your investment. I don't know what keeps the current owner from just trashing the house pissed off because you're taking their house if they can't come up with your money. A lot of legal mumbo jumbo in these and I'm sure DF knows more about them than me. I wouldn't feel comfortable without hiring a real estate attorney and then there goes my 10%.
9/15/2016 10:11am
Krallang wrote:
Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house? Anyone painting with such...
Ever notice how the people telling you that owning a house is a bad investment all sell houses and own their house?

Anyone painting with such a broad stroke are up to no good IMO. There are good investments and bad. That applies to buying a home as well.
You haven't been following the thread. A property can be a great investment. Living in a home for 30 years and paying interest, maintenance, remodeling costs...
You haven't been following the thread. A property can be a great investment. Living in a home for 30 years and paying interest, maintenance, remodeling costs, taxes, HOA fees, etc is where people lose money. In some markets like California and according to someone in this thread Buffalo money can be made because property values increase dramatically.

If you have a couple of million and you can't get a 4% return you should fire your broker. I can guarantee a 10% return through Tax liens backed by the state of Indiana. Anyone that isn't making greater than 4% on their investments isn't trying.
Krallang wrote:
10% a year through tax liens? Hahahahaha. I guess some sucker will believe that from you, but nobody is getting that right now. We are making...
10% a year through tax liens?
Hahahahaha.

I guess some sucker will believe that from you, but nobody is getting that right now.

We are making more than 4% on some of the more risky stock investments, but nobody is seeing those type of returns right now. That goes from Ronald Blue to lesser known as well.
Well you are wrong. Hedge funds are coming in droves to get in on these. It's pretty simple. I buy the property at the tax sale if the people pay the taxes I earn 10% on my money. If they don't I get the property. The only problem I have had so far is a lot can happen to a property in the 365 days you have to wait to take possession.

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