F4 Phantom. Should I Buy It Now or Make Offer?

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9/21/2018 11:12 AM

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9/21/2018 11:19 AM

Nice!

Not really related but I saw some formation flying by the Blue Angels a few weeks ago and it blew my mind.

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9/21/2018 11:29 AM

Double Ugly. I've always thought the Phantom was a badass plane. If I only had a few mil laying around, my bro-in-law is a fighter pilot, so I'd have someone to haul me around in it.

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9/21/2018 5:27 PM

The purchase price is the cheapest part of owning an aircraft. Amazingly enough...the registration fee is only $5.00.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/21/2018 5:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/21/2018 5:59 PM

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9/21/2018 6:03 PM

The 59's had a shitty sound system. The 63's had a Muntz 4 track.

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9/21/2018 6:32 PM

borg wrote:

The 59's had a shitty sound system. The 63's had a Muntz 4 track.

Not many of us around that know what you're talking about much less had a 4 track.wink

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/21/2018 7:21 PM

I was a Crew Chief on F-4E and G models at Spangdahlem AB Germany for a few years. My jet was a '69 model Wild Weasel. Got a ride in an E model in Spain and got to take the stick and do a few maneuvers myself.

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9/21/2018 8:06 PM

IMO the F4 is the baddest ass military plane made.......crude, loud, and fast......I used to watch them play dogfight over our farm in the 70's.............when they were done and gone the whole sky was black from the smoke.

Man those things were loud.

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9/21/2018 8:56 PM

early wrote:

Nice!

Not really related but I saw some formation flying by the Blue Angels a few weeks ago and it blew my mind.

They were around for the air show over Labor Day weekend in Cleveland. I had to work, but got to see most of the air show free from the plant. Pretty cool. Photo
Photo

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9/22/2018 9:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/22/2018 9:10 AM

Man the depreciation on those things is crazy. Value drops like a rock the first time you lift it off the runway.

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9/22/2018 1:21 PM

early wrote:

Nice!

Not really related but I saw some formation flying by the Blue Angels a few weeks ago and it blew my mind.

eeazye wrote:

They were around for the air show over Labor Day weekend in Cleveland. I had to work, but got to see most of the air show free from the plant. Pretty cool. Photo
Photo

Yeah I was around Case/University Circle that weekend. didn't make it to the airshow but saw them in the air.

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9/22/2018 1:34 PM

That Mig has been for sale for many years now. It would be really cool to own it and fly to the Strasophere on a Monday after worklaughing

But I know the Ukranian company which does the service on the plane is a little dodgy, so would be careful.

I’ve seen a few F5 A’s and B’s for sale for very cheap. Like a 100k

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9/22/2018 2:06 PM

Buy now. I know a guy in your woods who can teach you to fly it for free.

Paint it like real use with your favorite Marine squadron, not like a CAG bird, although they are pretty

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My post is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, I'm OK with it.

9/22/2018 2:19 PM

They were kinda gas hogs. Not very efficient power units. MEH. Its your money.

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9/22/2018 5:57 PM

I trapped those things during Team Spirit in Korea. USMC VMFA 451. Loved watching them take off at night.

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9/23/2018 9:33 AM

If you can pull if the Robin Olds stache then go for it

Photo

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9/23/2018 11:04 AM

I was at the Mildenhall air show back in 1977. They had a mini fly off between the F-4, F-15, and F-16. The Falcon went vertical like a rocket. The Eagle took more runway but followed the 16 vertical...the Phantom was still on the runway and never went vertical within eyesight.

The high speed 180 turns had the same results. The F-16 took less than half the distance of the F-15 and the Phantom crossed two counties to get turned around.

We all knew the legacy of the F-4 and it was revered for sure but we saw the future that day. I hear that the F-22 is a real game changer as well. The jury is still out on the F-35.

IMO...pound for pound, dollar for dollar, operating within and outside its designed wheelhouse...the F-16 is possibly the best fighter ever built.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/23/2018 12:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2018 1:11 PM

plowboy wrote:

I was at the Mildenhall air show back in 1977. They had a mini fly off between the F-4, F-15, and F-16. The Falcon went vertical like a rocket. The Eagle took more runway but followed the 16 vertical...the Phantom was still on the runway and never went vertical within eyesight.

The high speed 180 turns had the same results. The F-16 took less than half the distance of the F-15 and the Phantom crossed two counties to get turned around.

We all knew the legacy of the F-4 and it was revered for sure but we saw the future that day. I hear that the F-22 is a real game changer as well. The jury is still out on the F-35.

IMO...pound for pound, dollar for dollar, operating within and outside its designed wheelhouse...the F-16 is possibly the best fighter ever built.

Ummm, 3 similar planes dont take off at the same time anyway, and I think the vertical climb record is still Mig 25 Foxbat which was basically 2 rockets and a seat designed to track down close enough to the SR 71 and shoot it down,
F15 and F4 Phantom. Also, the Foxbat can climb to over 100,000 feet and Mach 3.2, but they limited it to 2.83.
The F4 held the records until the 15 came about.

When you consider the F4 is from the 50s, that's pretty damn impressive compared the F15, which can also burn its whole load of fuel in 10-12 minutes. Big engines need lots of fuel.

Also, when loaded with fuel and bombs, the 16 has 1 engine.
its like comparing a light small 112 Super mini compared to a 500 2 stroke on a back yard track or the open desert.

All planes have a different job also. The Original F4 didn't even have a cannon.

The F16 is good, has flaws as a fighter though in some cases.

1. It can't land on a carrier that I know of.. The suspension is built for grandma, not Steve matthes landing from a SX triple.
2. It has 1 engine. If that goes out, you're screwed and now its a rescue and recovery. Thats why the US Navy and US Marines didn't want it.
3. The Hornet basically has all this covered.

Sidenote, Im surprised the US Namy and Marines are trying out the F35 being a single engine, and so far its not doing all that well against the Hornet.

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My post is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, I'm OK with it.

9/23/2018 1:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2018 1:33 PM

Everything you said is technically correct however I stand by my statement. For handling, performance, reliability, maintainability, mission performance and expandability...the F-16 stands pretty tall. There are other airframes that can exceed it at a particular facet but none have equaled it's all around functionality. I don't know of another platform that can capably dog fight AND provide CAS second only to the A-10.

As far as three different planes taking off at the same time...lol...this was 1977. They did a lot of things back then that they would NEVER do nowadays. At that same air show, the German F-104's came in about 20 feet off the runway and went +mach...broke the sound barrier and my eardrums. I saw the Italian demo pilot crash and the British Meteor go down as well. Mildenhall was the wild west back in the day. (We were actually drinking with the Italian pilot the night before the air show at the Bird in Hand pub...he was cool as Hell).

Edit, the crashes did not occur in 1977 but subsequent airshows.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/23/2018 1:47 PM

Moto96 wrote:

Ummm, 3 similar planes dont take off at the same time anyway, and I think the vertical climb record is still Mig 25 Foxbat which was basically 2 rockets and a seat designed to track down close enough to the SR 71 and shoot it down,
F15 and F4 Phantom. Also, the Foxbat can climb to over 100,000 feet and Mach 3.2, but they limited it to 2.83.
The F4 held the records until the 15 came about.

When you consider the F4 is from the 50s, that's pretty damn impressive compared the F15, which can also burn its whole load of fuel in 10-12 minutes. Big engines need lots of fuel.

Also, when loaded with fuel and bombs, the 16 has 1 engine.
its like comparing a light small 112 Super mini compared to a 500 2 stroke on a back yard track or the open desert.

All planes have a different job also. The Original F4 didn't even have a cannon.

The F16 is good, has flaws as a fighter though in some cases.

1. It can't land on a carrier that I know of.. The suspension is built for grandma, not Steve matthes landing from a SX triple.
2. It has 1 engine. If that goes out, you're screwed and now its a rescue and recovery. Thats why the US Navy and US Marines didn't want it.
3. The Hornet basically has all this covered.

Sidenote, Im surprised the US Namy and Marines are trying out the F35 being a single engine, and so far its not doing all that well against the Hornet.

As far as carrier landing capability...the 16 was never a Navy/Marine concept. It has air refueling capability so it can get where it needs to be. I'm retired Air Force so i may be biasedangry .

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/23/2018 2:26 PM

Personally I've always been in awe of the English electric lighting (affectionately known as the frightening to RAF pilots), my god those things were insane.

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I no longer regret my username.


9/23/2018 4:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2018 4:12 PM

I was a crew chief on F-16s from '81 to '83 (Nellis AFB - Las Vegas NV). Crew chief on F-4s from '83 to '86 (Spangdahlem AB Germany) and crew chief on A-10s from '86 to '92 (Myrtle Beach AFB SC). My favorite plane mechanically is the A-10. Simple, durable. easy to work on. When I got my ride in the F-4 I had been working on it for a couple of years and always thought of it as a flying brick. However, my view changed after getting a ride. It was WAY more agile than I ever dreamed. Surely not quite what an F-16 can do but very impressive nonetheless. The guy that gave me a ride was the Zaragosa Air Base (Spain) commander at the time and had a lot of hours in the F-4 in Vietnam. It was all I could do to not puke. For the next 3 days I wish I had.

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9/23/2018 4:57 PM

XXVoid MainXX wrote:

I was a crew chief on F-16s from '81 to '83 (Nellis AFB - Las Vegas NV). Crew chief on F-4s from '83 to '86 (Spangdahlem AB Germany) and crew chief on A-10s from '86 to '92 (Myrtle Beach AFB SC). My favorite plane mechanically is the A-10. Simple, durable. easy to work on. When I got my ride in the F-4 I had been working on it for a couple of years and always thought of it as a flying brick. However, my view changed after getting a ride. It was WAY more agile than I ever dreamed. Surely not quite what an F-16 can do but very impressive nonetheless. The guy that gave me a ride was the Zaragosa Air Base (Spain) commander at the time and had a lot of hours in the F-4 in Vietnam. It was all I could do to not puke. For the next 3 days I wish I had.

Amen to the A-10 from a maintainers stand point. 3 sharp mechs could change an engine and have it trimmed in 4 hours or less.

A buddy of mine got an incentive flight in an F-4 in the Rhine valley. When he landed he had to use his hands to hold his head upright. Took days to recover.

The only rides I ever got was in the EF-111A and the T-37. No stick or pedals in the right seat of the Raven so I was just along for the ride. I got to actually fly the Tweet....cloud chasing till everything went black. I shook the stick to relinquish control to the pilot...he asked my problem. I said, "I can't see". He said, "Then push forward on the stick dumbass". I did and everything came back as fast as it went. I really wanted a ride in the T-38 but they said I couldn't touch the controls so I took the Tweet ride.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/23/2018 6:38 PM

The Phanton does hold a record that is tied with the A10. When coming at you, both just look pissed off, and no other jets quite look like death is coming the way they look.

The 16 should be a better fighter, its quite a bit smaller than an 18 and even smaller compared to an F4.
Compared to an SU 35, the 16 is straight up tiny.

Whats weird is, the Phantom looks huge compared to an 18, but its not that much bigger.


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My post is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, I'm OK with it.

9/24/2018 10:23 AM

I'll probably have to hold off for a while. My flying lessons aren't going to well at the moment.laughing

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9/24/2018 10:56 AM

Holy shit!

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10/6/2018 6:32 PM

Holy.... shit.... ???

That's the exact aircraft we volunteered time to restore back when I was doing my A&P program. I believe it was Palomar airport where she was restored, here in north county SD.

I did this like 6 years ago and they were still sourcing the engines and going through the hydraulics, while my buddy and myself were stripping the paint off the old drop tanks and wing pylons for inspection and recoat.

So, looks like she's back up and flying again. Awesome.

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A wise man once said nothing

10/6/2018 7:04 PM

Yeti365 wrote:

Holy.... shit.... ???

That's the exact aircraft we volunteered time to restore back when I was doing my A&P program. I believe it was Palomar airport where she was restored, here in north county SD.

I did this like 6 years ago and they were still sourcing the engines and going through the hydraulics, while my buddy and myself were stripping the paint off the old drop tanks and wing pylons for inspection and recoat.

So, looks like she's back up and flying again. Awesome.

Pilot error plain and simple. I'm an A&P mech and can tell you that even if a pilot crashes a plane on purpose, the FAA will piss test every mechanic before considering pilot error. I have lost more than one job because I refused to sign a release. And I have been thanked by many a pilot that was afraid to tell the boss he didn't want to fly a plane. I keep my job because the pilots love me...management not so much. In the end, management will boot me.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius