Expansion of the IRS

SCR
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8/12/2022 5:55pm
GOP won't allow any expansion of healthcare. The only way to expand mental health is the same way we need to fix regular healthcare which is...
GOP won't allow any expansion of healthcare. The only way to expand mental health is the same way we need to fix regular healthcare which is with a national healthcare system i.e. medicare for all.
whyZ wrote:
WTF are you talking about? Health care was addressed years ago, cost billions, restructured the entire system, laws were passed to make sure it went into...
WTF are you talking about? Health care was addressed years ago, cost billions, restructured the entire system, laws were passed to make sure it went into effect. It's called ObamaCare.
The affordable care aka obamacare act is a right wing health care platform which is why it doesn't work very well
I agree it doesn't work very well.
So why do you think democrats went to such extraordinary lengths to pass a bad right wing think tank idea with no republican support and no majority support from the public ? Did they not know it wouldn't work very well ?

It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.
Thomas Sowell.


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gsxrcr28
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8/12/2022 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2022 6:14pm
SCR wrote:
I agree it doesn't work very well. So why do you think democrats went to such extraordinary lengths to pass a bad right wing think tank...
I agree it doesn't work very well.
So why do you think democrats went to such extraordinary lengths to pass a bad right wing think tank idea with no republican support and no majority support from the public ? Did they not know it wouldn't work very well ?

It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.
Thomas Sowell.


35 million people have insurance through the ACA, and there is no mandate anymore. They don’t have to buy insurance through the ACA if they don’t want to, but it is the best option for them.

Edit: added link
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/04/29/new-reports-show-record-35-mi…
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SCR
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8/12/2022 8:01pm
SCR wrote:
I agree it doesn't work very well. So why do you think democrats went to such extraordinary lengths to pass a bad right wing think tank...
I agree it doesn't work very well.
So why do you think democrats went to such extraordinary lengths to pass a bad right wing think tank idea with no republican support and no majority support from the public ? Did they not know it wouldn't work very well ?

It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.
Thomas Sowell.


gsxrcr28 wrote:
35 million people have insurance through the ACA, and there is no mandate anymore. They don’t have to buy insurance through the ACA if they don’t...
35 million people have insurance through the ACA, and there is no mandate anymore. They don’t have to buy insurance through the ACA if they don’t want to, but it is the best option for them.

Edit: added link
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2022/04/29/new-reports-show-record-35-mi…
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last couple years which included extension of subsidies.
I think subsidies go up to over 100k a year income for a family of four. Govt subsidies allow insur companies to increase premiums without real competition. Similar to the way guaranteed student loans result in increased tuition and administration pensions until it ends up in default.

This is just on the insurance side. Then you have deductibles, out of control billing charges, govt regulation and mandates.

Obamacare doesn't address any of the real issues and problems with the healthcare system.

If I show up at your home or business to replace your air conditioner you expect a quote with a breakdown of the work a guarantee, etc. And I will likely need to compete with the pricing and quality of work of two or three other contractors. This forces me to provide competitive pricing and quality work if I want to stay in business. If I don't do this I will go out of business leaving the better businesses to compete.

If the govt convinces people that air conditioning is a human right because climate change is responsible for the deaths of a disproportionate amount of people that don't have access to air conditioning. So they are going to start subsidizing air conditioner replacements. And everyone will be mandated to pay a monthly AC replacement insurance premium. Then through the phenomenon of govt intervention, subsidies, mandates, regulation, administrative costs, and new agencies, etc. The cost of air conditioning replacent will go up massively, and incentive for quality work will decline you won't get a quote just a bill after the fact for some incomprehensible amount. Some people will get a free AC.
You might decide to pass on the AC but you still need to pay the monthly fee. Or a penalty.

I probably should have just said I think an actual real market economy with minimal regulation of state govt not federal would work better.
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Dirtydeeds
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8/13/2022 5:15am
I’ll be honest I haven’t read through this whole thread so sorry if it’s already been said but, wouldn’t 87,000 armed school officers have been a better idea right about now?
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2

The Shop

8/13/2022 9:26am
SCR wrote:
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last...
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last couple years which included extension of subsidies.
I think subsidies go up to over 100k a year income for a family of four. Govt subsidies allow insur companies to increase premiums without real competition. Similar to the way guaranteed student loans result in increased tuition and administration pensions until it ends up in default.

This is just on the insurance side. Then you have deductibles, out of control billing charges, govt regulation and mandates.

Obamacare doesn't address any of the real issues and problems with the healthcare system.

If I show up at your home or business to replace your air conditioner you expect a quote with a breakdown of the work a guarantee, etc. And I will likely need to compete with the pricing and quality of work of two or three other contractors. This forces me to provide competitive pricing and quality work if I want to stay in business. If I don't do this I will go out of business leaving the better businesses to compete.

If the govt convinces people that air conditioning is a human right because climate change is responsible for the deaths of a disproportionate amount of people that don't have access to air conditioning. So they are going to start subsidizing air conditioner replacements. And everyone will be mandated to pay a monthly AC replacement insurance premium. Then through the phenomenon of govt intervention, subsidies, mandates, regulation, administrative costs, and new agencies, etc. The cost of air conditioning replacent will go up massively, and incentive for quality work will decline you won't get a quote just a bill after the fact for some incomprehensible amount. Some people will get a free AC.
You might decide to pass on the AC but you still need to pay the monthly fee. Or a penalty.

I probably should have just said I think an actual real market economy with minimal regulation of state govt not federal would work better.
^This guy gets it. If you looked at the Affordable Care Act as if it was most likely written by the insurance companies then I think most would understand why it ended up like it did. The title of it was completely deceiving, there was absolutely nothing done to make it affordable from a business, or logical perspective. How in the world is something going to become affordable if you force people to buy it? They have their sensationalized headlines of giving a whole extra 365 days of coverage to people who were still on their parent's plan, and they cover pre-existing conditions. But everything else about it is complete horseshit. At some point I remember seeing a breakdown of how insurance rates have increased through the years, and of course they became exponentially more expensive after the Affordable Care Act
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Donkey Kong
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8/13/2022 11:53am
SCR wrote:
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last...
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last couple years which included extension of subsidies.
I think subsidies go up to over 100k a year income for a family of four. Govt subsidies allow insur companies to increase premiums without real competition. Similar to the way guaranteed student loans result in increased tuition and administration pensions until it ends up in default.

This is just on the insurance side. Then you have deductibles, out of control billing charges, govt regulation and mandates.

Obamacare doesn't address any of the real issues and problems with the healthcare system.

If I show up at your home or business to replace your air conditioner you expect a quote with a breakdown of the work a guarantee, etc. And I will likely need to compete with the pricing and quality of work of two or three other contractors. This forces me to provide competitive pricing and quality work if I want to stay in business. If I don't do this I will go out of business leaving the better businesses to compete.

If the govt convinces people that air conditioning is a human right because climate change is responsible for the deaths of a disproportionate amount of people that don't have access to air conditioning. So they are going to start subsidizing air conditioner replacements. And everyone will be mandated to pay a monthly AC replacement insurance premium. Then through the phenomenon of govt intervention, subsidies, mandates, regulation, administrative costs, and new agencies, etc. The cost of air conditioning replacent will go up massively, and incentive for quality work will decline you won't get a quote just a bill after the fact for some incomprehensible amount. Some people will get a free AC.
You might decide to pass on the AC but you still need to pay the monthly fee. Or a penalty.

I probably should have just said I think an actual real market economy with minimal regulation of state govt not federal would work better.
Why does every other wealthy country grant all citizens healthcare? Are they just ignorant to the power of the free market? People forget how even more awful American Healthcare was prior to the ACA. Being denied for preexisting conditions, even more medical bankruptcies than there are now. 50% of health insurance revenue was going into over head and profit. ACA made it so 80% must go to providing healthcare and 20% overhead/profit. Medicare is 93/7.

For example you know when a moto guy gets hurt really bad and there's a GoFund me posted onto this forum? If there was universal healthcare that person wouldn't have to pan handle to get the care they need, it would be guaranteed to them.

It's impossible for private health insurance to be more efficient than government healthcare because there is no profit margin. Gov healthcare never needs to take their cut, a private company does.

Also, less expensive health insurance doesn't help when you're flat broke.

Gov healthcare also helps the economy/job market because people aren't tied to a certain employer because they don't want to risk losing their coverage. It would give employees more freedom with where they can work.

If you're not into politics you may not know but the reason the right wing is pro free market is not because they think it works better. The point is to demonize and disrupt government programs to make them dysfunctional so they can convince people that privatization is better, then they get to profit from said system. GOP does this all the time with the post office for example. The post office is incredible efficient and effective at what it does but the GOP doesn't care. They want to be the owners of mail distribution so they can take their profit cut themselves. It's a scam.
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swordfish
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8/13/2022 2:40pm
SCR wrote:
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last...
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last couple years which included extension of subsidies.
I think subsidies go up to over 100k a year income for a family of four. Govt subsidies allow insur companies to increase premiums without real competition. Similar to the way guaranteed student loans result in increased tuition and administration pensions until it ends up in default.

This is just on the insurance side. Then you have deductibles, out of control billing charges, govt regulation and mandates.

Obamacare doesn't address any of the real issues and problems with the healthcare system.

If I show up at your home or business to replace your air conditioner you expect a quote with a breakdown of the work a guarantee, etc. And I will likely need to compete with the pricing and quality of work of two or three other contractors. This forces me to provide competitive pricing and quality work if I want to stay in business. If I don't do this I will go out of business leaving the better businesses to compete.

If the govt convinces people that air conditioning is a human right because climate change is responsible for the deaths of a disproportionate amount of people that don't have access to air conditioning. So they are going to start subsidizing air conditioner replacements. And everyone will be mandated to pay a monthly AC replacement insurance premium. Then through the phenomenon of govt intervention, subsidies, mandates, regulation, administrative costs, and new agencies, etc. The cost of air conditioning replacent will go up massively, and incentive for quality work will decline you won't get a quote just a bill after the fact for some incomprehensible amount. Some people will get a free AC.
You might decide to pass on the AC but you still need to pay the monthly fee. Or a penalty.

I probably should have just said I think an actual real market economy with minimal regulation of state govt not federal would work better.
Why does every other wealthy country grant all citizens healthcare? Are they just ignorant to the power of the free market? People forget how even more...
Why does every other wealthy country grant all citizens healthcare? Are they just ignorant to the power of the free market? People forget how even more awful American Healthcare was prior to the ACA. Being denied for preexisting conditions, even more medical bankruptcies than there are now. 50% of health insurance revenue was going into over head and profit. ACA made it so 80% must go to providing healthcare and 20% overhead/profit. Medicare is 93/7.

For example you know when a moto guy gets hurt really bad and there's a GoFund me posted onto this forum? If there was universal healthcare that person wouldn't have to pan handle to get the care they need, it would be guaranteed to them.

It's impossible for private health insurance to be more efficient than government healthcare because there is no profit margin. Gov healthcare never needs to take their cut, a private company does.

Also, less expensive health insurance doesn't help when you're flat broke.

Gov healthcare also helps the economy/job market because people aren't tied to a certain employer because they don't want to risk losing their coverage. It would give employees more freedom with where they can work.

If you're not into politics you may not know but the reason the right wing is pro free market is not because they think it works better. The point is to demonize and disrupt government programs to make them dysfunctional so they can convince people that privatization is better, then they get to profit from said system. GOP does this all the time with the post office for example. The post office is incredible efficient and effective at what it does but the GOP doesn't care. They want to be the owners of mail distribution so they can take their profit cut themselves. It's a scam.
I get free healthcare and I preferred to pay when I lived in the US. Much, much better care. I mean I’m happy I have a certain amount of medical coverage when needed but it’s not all what it’s cracked up to be. Most of Canada is in a healthcare crisis. Hard to even get an ambulance to come get you in many provinces.

Queue up Javaman to come in here now and tell me how everything is Rosey and their aren’t multiple year waiting lists for a Family doctor, surgeries, etc.
Must be because of Covid, the anti vaxxers and truckers.
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SCR
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8/13/2022 4:52pm
SCR wrote:
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last...
Sure enrollment will increase as long as the govt continues with never ending extensions and increases in subsidies. They just printed whatever trillion dollars over last couple years which included extension of subsidies.
I think subsidies go up to over 100k a year income for a family of four. Govt subsidies allow insur companies to increase premiums without real competition. Similar to the way guaranteed student loans result in increased tuition and administration pensions until it ends up in default.

This is just on the insurance side. Then you have deductibles, out of control billing charges, govt regulation and mandates.

Obamacare doesn't address any of the real issues and problems with the healthcare system.

If I show up at your home or business to replace your air conditioner you expect a quote with a breakdown of the work a guarantee, etc. And I will likely need to compete with the pricing and quality of work of two or three other contractors. This forces me to provide competitive pricing and quality work if I want to stay in business. If I don't do this I will go out of business leaving the better businesses to compete.

If the govt convinces people that air conditioning is a human right because climate change is responsible for the deaths of a disproportionate amount of people that don't have access to air conditioning. So they are going to start subsidizing air conditioner replacements. And everyone will be mandated to pay a monthly AC replacement insurance premium. Then through the phenomenon of govt intervention, subsidies, mandates, regulation, administrative costs, and new agencies, etc. The cost of air conditioning replacent will go up massively, and incentive for quality work will decline you won't get a quote just a bill after the fact for some incomprehensible amount. Some people will get a free AC.
You might decide to pass on the AC but you still need to pay the monthly fee. Or a penalty.

I probably should have just said I think an actual real market economy with minimal regulation of state govt not federal would work better.
Why does every other wealthy country grant all citizens healthcare? Are they just ignorant to the power of the free market? People forget how even more...
Why does every other wealthy country grant all citizens healthcare? Are they just ignorant to the power of the free market? People forget how even more awful American Healthcare was prior to the ACA. Being denied for preexisting conditions, even more medical bankruptcies than there are now. 50% of health insurance revenue was going into over head and profit. ACA made it so 80% must go to providing healthcare and 20% overhead/profit. Medicare is 93/7.

For example you know when a moto guy gets hurt really bad and there's a GoFund me posted onto this forum? If there was universal healthcare that person wouldn't have to pan handle to get the care they need, it would be guaranteed to them.

It's impossible for private health insurance to be more efficient than government healthcare because there is no profit margin. Gov healthcare never needs to take their cut, a private company does.

Also, less expensive health insurance doesn't help when you're flat broke.

Gov healthcare also helps the economy/job market because people aren't tied to a certain employer because they don't want to risk losing their coverage. It would give employees more freedom with where they can work.

If you're not into politics you may not know but the reason the right wing is pro free market is not because they think it works better. The point is to demonize and disrupt government programs to make them dysfunctional so they can convince people that privatization is better, then they get to profit from said system. GOP does this all the time with the post office for example. The post office is incredible efficient and effective at what it does but the GOP doesn't care. They want to be the owners of mail distribution so they can take their profit cut themselves. It's a scam.
I didnt intend to get this thread off track with my 3,000 word analogy. Im not up for getting into a whole thing and not sure anyone cares what I have to say about it anyway.

Congress just passed the 700 billion dollar bill to stop inflation, build windmills, and whatever. In it is another extension for health insurance subsidies because premiums were set to increase right before the midterms.
Fight inflation by spending more money that the govt does not collect through tax revenue. Where does that money come from ? The treasury issues debt, the federal reserve prints money out of thin air to buy the debt. Who pays the debt and the interest on the debt ? The Government. Where does the govt get the money ? From the tax payer. But there wasnt enough money from the tax payer to begin with thats why they had to issue debt. Well then Congress will have to approve more spending, issue debt , and print money to pay for the debt with interest.
Its like an Abbot and Costello routine for counterfeiting money.

I dont trust the Federal Govt and there agencies to manage anything to do with my healthcare. We need the VA and it should be run by the the Govt.

You might think Im anti govt. Not so. Without good govt we are in big trouble. My issue is I think we are in big trouble.

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Joey_Bridges
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8/14/2022 5:47am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2022 5:50am
You can tax every billionaire, and millionaire in this nation at a 100% rate.
And still not even come close to covering the money our government spends.

So it's obvious where their focus will be aimed (pun intended) with their guns, and new agents.
The working class.

Because they damn sure can't go after the growing underground economy they're creating with the massive amount of illegal immigrants they're allowing into the country.

Which is why a national sales tax has been discussed.
It taxes everyone at the point of purchase.
No loopholes.
No high priced attorney's.
(Which is why it will never happen)
No need for the IRS to become a roving band of armed federal agents.
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philG
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8/21/2022 7:05am
I rad earlier that the IRS has a PAC that supports the Democrats... so they pay them , and they hire 87,000 more goons, and nobody sees that as a problem.


If it wasnt for double standards.... you know the rest.
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TeamGreen
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8/21/2022 10:46am
87,000 New IRS positions as the Border goes to hell…

Democrats: Big Government Against The People
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plowboy
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8/21/2022 12:10pm
I've never had a problem paying my share of taxes. I have often thought the corporate and wealthy get away with paying less than their "fair" share.

Fighting the waste and corruption...that's another bucket of worms. Anywhere there's money...a thief will be there to get as much of it as they can. Not every crook wears a mask, striped shirt with a bag over their shoulder that says, "swag". Some wear suits and sit behind big oak desks.
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jchek779
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8/23/2022 5:35am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2022 5:37am
plowboy wrote:
I've never had a problem paying my share of taxes. I have often thought the corporate and wealthy get away with paying less than their "fair"...
I've never had a problem paying my share of taxes. I have often thought the corporate and wealthy get away with paying less than their "fair" share.

Fighting the waste and corruption...that's another bucket of worms. Anywhere there's money...a thief will be there to get as much of it as they can. Not every crook wears a mask, striped shirt with a bag over their shoulder that says, "swag". Some wear suits and sit behind big oak desks.
I'm going to challenge the "pay their fair share" line of thinking. The zero sum approach positions you in a state of victimhood. We all have the power and opportunity to put ourselves on the favorable side of the tax code if we choose to do so.

The tax code is written to accomplish 2 things -
1. Generate a stream of income for government
2. Create a desired outcome.

I'll go into #2 with two simple examples we can all relate to -

Example 1 - Real Estate
I can't think of a more tax advantaged asset class that has generated more wealth than RE. The Fed Gov't incentivizes investors to position capital in the RE market to create and provide housing opportunities through tax advantages. The gov't recognizes that they are shitty at creating, building, developing, managing, and maintaining any form of housing. Can you point to an example of "the projects" that you'd want to live in?

Dealing with dirtbag tenants and their dirtbag headaches is a hassle. Right now, it's a hassle people are willing to take in order to realize a return on investment, with that ROI factoring in LT Cap Gains rates, Depreciation, and the ability to exchange/defer taxes into additional like-kind assets.

Remove the tax advantages (incentives) to place capital in housing and the smart money will find the exit and a place in another asset with less headache.

Example 2 - Small Business
I know that a lot of us that post here own and operate a small business. In my case, I reinvest my capital into my business which in turn creates new jobs/opportunities locally and nationwide. It creates income opportunities for my vendors, my contractors, the people at the local Home Depot, the waitress at the local restaurant, and revenue for my local municipalities. Take those funds away and I scale back, reallocate, or send services abroad. Better yet, I take them completely off the table and into smarter assets with less headaches.


Do you prefer that capital be allocated by the market with capable/responsible/intelligent stewards with skin in the game or that capital be allocated by the bureaucracy? One grows capital exponentially and one just grows exponentially.


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plowboy
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8/23/2022 12:14pm
plowboy wrote:
I've never had a problem paying my share of taxes. I have often thought the corporate and wealthy get away with paying less than their "fair"...
I've never had a problem paying my share of taxes. I have often thought the corporate and wealthy get away with paying less than their "fair" share.

Fighting the waste and corruption...that's another bucket of worms. Anywhere there's money...a thief will be there to get as much of it as they can. Not every crook wears a mask, striped shirt with a bag over their shoulder that says, "swag". Some wear suits and sit behind big oak desks.
jchek779 wrote:
I'm going to challenge the "pay their fair share" line of thinking. The zero sum approach positions you in a state of victimhood. We all have...
I'm going to challenge the "pay their fair share" line of thinking. The zero sum approach positions you in a state of victimhood. We all have the power and opportunity to put ourselves on the favorable side of the tax code if we choose to do so.

The tax code is written to accomplish 2 things -
1. Generate a stream of income for government
2. Create a desired outcome.

I'll go into #2 with two simple examples we can all relate to -

Example 1 - Real Estate
I can't think of a more tax advantaged asset class that has generated more wealth than RE. The Fed Gov't incentivizes investors to position capital in the RE market to create and provide housing opportunities through tax advantages. The gov't recognizes that they are shitty at creating, building, developing, managing, and maintaining any form of housing. Can you point to an example of "the projects" that you'd want to live in?

Dealing with dirtbag tenants and their dirtbag headaches is a hassle. Right now, it's a hassle people are willing to take in order to realize a return on investment, with that ROI factoring in LT Cap Gains rates, Depreciation, and the ability to exchange/defer taxes into additional like-kind assets.

Remove the tax advantages (incentives) to place capital in housing and the smart money will find the exit and a place in another asset with less headache.

Example 2 - Small Business
I know that a lot of us that post here own and operate a small business. In my case, I reinvest my capital into my business which in turn creates new jobs/opportunities locally and nationwide. It creates income opportunities for my vendors, my contractors, the people at the local Home Depot, the waitress at the local restaurant, and revenue for my local municipalities. Take those funds away and I scale back, reallocate, or send services abroad. Better yet, I take them completely off the table and into smarter assets with less headaches.


Do you prefer that capital be allocated by the market with capable/responsible/intelligent stewards with skin in the game or that capital be allocated by the bureaucracy? One grows capital exponentially and one just grows exponentially.


I am not a business owner. Tried it...lost my ass. Learned real quick that competitors with money and connections don't play around. I say that to dispute your claim that "we all have the ability to put ourselves on the favorable side of the tax code". I never made enough money to employ tax deductible credits or shelters. Food, shelter, clothes...maybe a camping trip to the local mud hole....zero sum game. And I am completely cool with that. Never wanted to be in that next level dog fight. Honestly, I don't have the brain power.

I get the point of your comment. I've heard it my whole life. Basically, let the business people have free rein and they will hire dumbasses and then you can tax their paychecks into oblivion to pay for govt expenses. Since the business owner is obviously a rung above the working class fool in intelligence and societal worth...said business man shouldn't have to contribute as much of their money to the system.

I never said I'm against a business man being successful and becoming wealthy. Good on them and you. What I'm saying is that I'll never buy into is the working class paying a far larger percentage of their income while the wealthy point to the jobs they "create" and say, "that's my share...leave my money alone".

My grandpa told me when I was about 12...and I had no idea what he meant at the time..."If you're gonna work with your hands and back...you better support the Dems. If you go into business...you're gonna find it hard if you aren't a Republican".

I don't want to argue about this crap. We both have our own experiences that have formed our viewpoints. You do you...I'll do meWink
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early
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3/6/2023 6:08pm

E-filed my taxes on February 22nd and got a return deposited today. Thanks Biden!

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Sully
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3/6/2023 8:13pm
early wrote:

E-filed my taxes on February 22nd and got a return deposited today. Thanks Biden!

It never took more than two weeks for me to get my return prior to COVID. What's your point?

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