Electric cars and pollution

borg
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12/15/2014 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/29/2014 9:20am
I had this discussion with WhKnuckle, I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago. I was told I was full of shit.

Pollution

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newmann
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12/15/2014 1:42pm
I think Sam told a lot of people that they were full of shit. I was on the receiving end of one...or more(Laughing ) of those myself.
newmann
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12/15/2014 1:45pm
Best part about the Chevy Volt was that everyone that bought one basically received a $7500.00 welfare check courtesy of you, me and all the other taxpayers here in the US for that overpriced little shitbox.
Titan1
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12/15/2014 2:27pm
To bad renewable energy (solar and wind) is to inefficient, expensive, unreliable, and hard to get....
borg
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12/15/2014 3:04pm
Your articles say the same thing mine did. Are you just jumping on the bandwagon or was there another point you were trying to make?

The Shop

CR250Rider
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12/15/2014 3:30pm
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled.
..because the electric cars use no gasoline which is heavily taxed to pay for road maintenance.
And new MPG cars use less gas too.
Of course the 35cents a gallon gas tax will stay in place.
This was NOT VOTED ON !

I'll never agree to a government gps unit in my fucking car!!
CR250Rider
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12/15/2014 3:37pm
King5 news last night... yes I believe so. unbelievable
Homey55
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12/15/2014 4:29pm
CR250Rider wrote:
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled. ..because the...
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled.
..because the electric cars use no gasoline which is heavily taxed to pay for road maintenance.
And new MPG cars use less gas too.
Of course the 35cents a gallon gas tax will stay in place.
This was NOT VOTED ON !

I'll never agree to a government gps unit in my fucking car!!
borg
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12/15/2014 4:38pm
OK. You must have had a reason for wanting me to read those articles. What was the reason?
XXVoid MainXX
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12/15/2014 4:42pm
borg wrote:
I had this discussion with WhKnuckle, I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago. I was told I was full of shit.

Pollution

It's funny, I was working from the couch today and the wife was watching some Barbara Walters special, I think it was 10 most fascinating people or something like that. Anyway, the Tesla dude was on the list and they were listing off so much bullshit about 0 pollution, safest car, it would last forever because it was battery powered, that it was going to save the world, blah blah. I just sat there and snickered. Are people that dumb?
Falcon
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Fantasy
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12/15/2014 5:08pm
Yes, yes they are.
IWreckALot
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12/15/2014 5:47pm
CR250Rider wrote:
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled. ..because the...
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled.
..because the electric cars use no gasoline which is heavily taxed to pay for road maintenance.
And new MPG cars use less gas too.
Of course the 35cents a gallon gas tax will stay in place.
This was NOT VOTED ON !

I'll never agree to a government gps unit in my fucking car!!
Homey55 wrote:
It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The degree that government is getting involved in every aspect of our life is getting pretty sick.
newmann
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12/15/2014 6:16pm
CR250Rider wrote:
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled. ..because the...
Here in Washington state the lawmakers want to install a gps device in your car and charge a tax based on the miles traveled.
..because the electric cars use no gasoline which is heavily taxed to pay for road maintenance.
And new MPG cars use less gas too.
Of course the 35cents a gallon gas tax will stay in place.
This was NOT VOTED ON !

I'll never agree to a government gps unit in my fucking car!!
Homey55 wrote:
IWreckALot wrote:
It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The degree that government is getting involved in every aspect of our life is getting pretty sick.
The left wingers love it that way.
SEEMEFIRST
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12/15/2014 6:27pm
borg wrote:
I had this discussion with WhKnuckle, I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago. I was told I was full of shit.

Pollution

Air pollution deaths and global warming?

While I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the article, are the things they site even real?
borg
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12/15/2014 8:25pm
borg wrote:
I had this discussion with WhKnuckle, I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago. I was told I was full of shit.

Pollution

SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Air pollution deaths and global warming?

While I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the article, are the things they site even real?
I don't necessarily go along with their conclusions but it strikes me as a bit funny that somebody has just discovered that electric vehicles are not zero emission like they've been advertized.
12/15/2014 9:35pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Air pollution deaths and global warming?

While I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the article, are the things they site even real?
I thought the same thing.
71Fish
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12/16/2014 5:20am
For your sake, hopefully not an electric bandwagon.
71Fish
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12/16/2014 5:22am
borg wrote:
I had this discussion with WhKnuckle, I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago. I was told I was full of shit.

Pollution

SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Air pollution deaths and global warming?

While I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the article, are the things they site even real?
Numbers seemd awfully high. Will global warming deaths surpass slips, trips and falls as the #1 killer? Should help with any population problems.
Any time I hear "global warming" is the cause of anything my antenas go up and I automatically wait to be lectured too.
APLMAN99
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12/16/2014 7:29am
borg wrote:
Your articles say the same thing mine did. Are you just jumping on the bandwagon or was there another point you were trying to make?
Depending on your perspective, the articles do say something very similar.

Burning coal is a terrible way to continue to generate electricity.......

12/16/2014 7:40am
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed for a modern power grid. Once a few more EPA regs kick in (the big one, MATS kicks in next year) coal will be a much smaller portion of our mix. There is nobody building coal-fired power plants anymore. California, for instance, has hardly any coal.

It's kind of a false argument to point out that since out electricity grid is incredibly inefficient and dirty because of legacy, that electric cars are being charged by dirty fuel. The car technology is not the problem, it's the electricity technology.
12/16/2014 10:06am
It's too bad the government makes a lot of money off the sale of gas. It's almost as if they make false promises of cheaper energy when deep down they know that it is in their best interest to keep energy prices high. I guess we could start riding bicycles instead of driving cars?
12/16/2014 10:23am
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed...
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed for a modern power grid. Once a few more EPA regs kick in (the big one, MATS kicks in next year) coal will be a much smaller portion of our mix. There is nobody building coal-fired power plants anymore. California, for instance, has hardly any coal.

It's kind of a false argument to point out that since out electricity grid is incredibly inefficient and dirty because of legacy, that electric cars are being charged by dirty fuel. The car technology is not the problem, it's the electricity technology.
California is broke for a reason.
They've tried to run off as many companies as they could, and now they want to run off the people.

71Fish
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12/16/2014 10:38am
It's too bad the government makes a lot of money off the sale of gas. It's almost as if they make false promises of cheaper energy...
It's too bad the government makes a lot of money off the sale of gas. It's almost as if they make false promises of cheaper energy when deep down they know that it is in their best interest to keep energy prices high. I guess we could start riding bicycles instead of driving cars?
I could be very wrong, but I believe the tax on fuel is a set amount rather than a percentage. So the gov't gets the same amount if gas is $5 per gallon or $2 per gallon. Am I wrong?
Titan1
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12/16/2014 10:39am
I've no specific love or bias towards fossil fuels, beside the fact that TODAY (right now) they are BY FAR the most efficient most affordable, most reliable, and most readily available form of energy we have. In my mind, it makes no sense to make them more expensive via regulation (EPA) nor make them harder to access (radical greenies) up until the point in time that there is an equally affordable, equally efficient, and equally reliable alternative.

So though I'm not biased towards fossil fuels...I AM biased toward the lifestyle they afford all of us (from the coal mine owner...to the most radical greenie...we all benefit from fossil fuels)...and to limit access to fossil fuels or make them more expensive WITHOUT a replacement...will only hurt our lifestyles. And maybe I'm a little selfish...but I'm totally fine with leaving the planet a little worse off than I found for my grandkids, so that I can enjoy my lifestyle.

there is probably another 100 years (or more even) of fossil fuel reserves in the world...many of those reserves-in this country-are locked up in Wilderness Areas or other federally restricted areas...the largest, easiest to access and cleanest (low ash and low sulfur) coal reserve in the nation was locked up in a national monument by Clinton as the sun was setting on his 2nd term. (Now we are using less clean, harder to access (more expensive) coal to power our country.

As soon as that fossil fuel replacement is ready to roll...I'll get on board with closing coal minds, and oil fields...but until then, the greenies and EPA need to get out of the way so our society can function.
Titan1
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12/16/2014 10:44am
Homey55 wrote:
IWreckALot wrote:
It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The degree that government is getting involved in every aspect of our life is getting pretty sick.
newmann wrote:
The left wingers love it that way.
The environment will be the single largest and most effective tool to justify government intrusion into every single facet of our lives...just you watch.

Saving the environment will eventually control WHAT we drive, WHERE we drive, and HOW MUCH we drive...then where we can live...where we can go on vacation...how hot/cool we can keep our homes...and on and on.

That isn't fear mongering or a tin foil hat conspiracy...its happening right before our eyes.
Titan1
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12/16/2014 10:52am
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed...
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed for a modern power grid. Once a few more EPA regs kick in (the big one, MATS kicks in next year) coal will be a much smaller portion of our mix. There is nobody building coal-fired power plants anymore. California, for instance, has hardly any coal.

It's kind of a false argument to point out that since out electricity grid is incredibly inefficient and dirty because of legacy, that electric cars are being charged by dirty fuel. The car technology is not the problem, it's the electricity technology.
That is true...coal plants are dying (they are closing one near my home town)...they are all be retrofitted to natural gas (and new plants being built are all natural gas).

I'm from a coal mining family (grandfathers, dad, many uncles all made a living in the coal mines...its down to one brother that currently mines coal)...at least in Utah, the only coal mines left are mines that have contracts with companies in CHINA! (China doesn't care about the environment or climate change) All the local mines that were selling domestically have (or will be shortly) closing.

And VERY few mines are being opened to get at remaining reserves.

My brother has been mining for 5 years (he's 27)...his mine has an estimated 25 years of reserves, and another 19 years left on a contract with a company from China...I told him he'd better save his money, because when that contract is up, his mine will be shutting down, and he'll need to find another career.
rosebud441
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12/16/2014 10:52am
I suppose if we ignore the environment long enough it will just go away... then problem solved..
newmann
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12/16/2014 10:59am
rosebud441 wrote:
I suppose if we ignore the environment long enough it will just go away... then problem solved..
Sending all those jobs to China and Mexico seem to be working out great for the environment.

Ignoring it or being reasonable about it? A gasoline only powered Honda Civic driving through downtown Los Angeles will actually have cleaner air coming out the tailpipe that going in the intake. I didn't check Snopes by the way.
rosebud441
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12/16/2014 11:05am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2014 11:08am
I'm not a big fan of electric cars.. just trading one pile of pooh for another really, obviously electricity has its dirty drawbacks..
however, I do appreciate the technology and it all has to start somewhere.. We are getting the ball rolling,

I would like to see hydrogen vehicles..
12/16/2014 11:24am
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed...
It's kind of a false argument because coal-fired power plants are going away in droves. Most were built decades ago, they are inefficient and not designed for a modern power grid. Once a few more EPA regs kick in (the big one, MATS kicks in next year) coal will be a much smaller portion of our mix. There is nobody building coal-fired power plants anymore. California, for instance, has hardly any coal.

It's kind of a false argument to point out that since out electricity grid is incredibly inefficient and dirty because of legacy, that electric cars are being charged by dirty fuel. The car technology is not the problem, it's the electricity technology.
Titan1 wrote:
That is true...coal plants are dying (they are closing one near my home town)...they are all be retrofitted to natural gas (and new plants being built...
That is true...coal plants are dying (they are closing one near my home town)...they are all be retrofitted to natural gas (and new plants being built are all natural gas).

I'm from a coal mining family (grandfathers, dad, many uncles all made a living in the coal mines...its down to one brother that currently mines coal)...at least in Utah, the only coal mines left are mines that have contracts with companies in CHINA! (China doesn't care about the environment or climate change) All the local mines that were selling domestically have (or will be shortly) closing.

And VERY few mines are being opened to get at remaining reserves.

My brother has been mining for 5 years (he's 27)...his mine has an estimated 25 years of reserves, and another 19 years left on a contract with a company from China...I told him he'd better save his money, because when that contract is up, his mine will be shutting down, and he'll need to find another career.
They just announced today that the Deer Creek mine in Utah is shutting down.

I can appreciate the heritage and pride associated with mining, but it's a tough lifestyle choice for sure. The record with safety, health and pensions has not been good. They have a habit of selling off companies and erasing pensions for people that worked their asses off for a long time. Maybe it's not as bad in Utah as it is in WV and Appalachia.

And when we talk about cheap coal-fired power, the medical costs and environmental price we pay is left out. Nothing like a mountaintop removal project to turn a mountain into a wasteland.
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