Don’t want to derail the “other” gun topics even further.....

jasonward73
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8/11/2019 6:40am
This situation perfectly outlines why the idea of everyone carrying a gun makes us safer is not a well thought out philosophy. When shit goes sideways it's impossible to quickly determine who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Law and order is out the window once everyone is armed.

Even in the heart of conservative America people are not ready to deal with the laws they vote for and fight for. Ironic.
3
JAFO92
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8/13/2019 12:41pm


*With a cold and steely glare, Gibby eases his index finger on the mouse,, his patience tried and his resolve focused as he eases the cursor towards Andy_Greeney's profile for the click......*


6
GuyB
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8/13/2019 3:44pm
JAFO92 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/13/366221/s1200_Gibby.jpg[/img] *With a cold and steely glare, Gibby eases his index finger on the mouse,, his patience tried and his resolve focused as he eases the...


*With a cold and steely glare, Gibby eases his index finger on the mouse,, his patience tried and his resolve focused as he eases the cursor towards Andy_Greeney's profile for the click......*


Fake news. I don't use a PC. Besides, my hair is a lot grayer. You guys have contributed to that. Wink
2

The Shop

Piston Slap
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8/15/2019 2:22pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
I thought about that as I heard the story. Actually the ex-firefighter could be charged with brandishing, and unlawful confinement for holding the guy at gunpoint...
I thought about that as I heard the story.

Actually the ex-firefighter could be charged with brandishing, and unlawful confinement for holding the guy at gunpoint who hadn't broken any laws at that point.
You typically don't go to Walmart in body armor with a weapon and a 100 rounds. No prosecutor in this country would charge the firefighter for...
You typically don't go to Walmart in body armor with a weapon and a 100 rounds. No prosecutor in this country would charge the firefighter for a reasonable mistake made in the defense of others....
APLMAN99 wrote:
What is reasonable? MO is an open carry state, so if I see someone walking down the sidewalk with a rifle do I have the right...
What is reasonable? MO is an open carry state, so if I see someone walking down the sidewalk with a rifle do I have the right to draw a weapon on him? If he doesn't obey my "order" to stop, would it be reasonable for me to use force to stop him?

If the prosecutor wouldn't charge this man for drawing his weapon on this guy (assuming that the other guy was simply carrying and not actually threatening anyone) what would it take to bring charges? Would/should the firefighter's occupation make a difference?

This is a crazy situation, but it's one of those extremes that makes you wonder what happens if everyone carries, everyone draws their own inferences on what is a threat, etc.
Typically, the "totality of the circumstances doctrine" would apply.... but what do I know.Smile
Piston Slap
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8/15/2019 2:27pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
What is reasonable? MO is an open carry state, so if I see someone walking down the sidewalk with a rifle do I have the right...
What is reasonable? MO is an open carry state, so if I see someone walking down the sidewalk with a rifle do I have the right to draw a weapon on him? If he doesn't obey my "order" to stop, would it be reasonable for me to use force to stop him?

If the prosecutor wouldn't charge this man for drawing his weapon on this guy (assuming that the other guy was simply carrying and not actually threatening anyone) what would it take to bring charges? Would/should the firefighter's occupation make a difference?

This is a crazy situation, but it's one of those extremes that makes you wonder what happens if everyone carries, everyone draws their own inferences on what is a threat, etc.
FFS!!! This guy. . . .

https://news.yahoo.com/armed-man-stopped-missouri-walmart-153727528.html

This will be a good show... get the popcorn boys.... Woohoo

Congrats to aplman. . . Never thought this could be the case....

But. . . In "light of current events" . . .what's the best solution? What if guy is bullshitting about motive bc he got caught?

Serious. . .Blink
Dirtydeeds
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8/16/2019 9:19pm
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Beyond bad taste. What a fuckin idiot. Open carry laws or not theres no fuckin reason to walk around a walmart with bulletproof vest and a...
Beyond bad taste. What a fuckin idiot. Open carry laws or not theres no fuckin reason to walk around a walmart with bulletproof vest and a loaded ar-15. Especially with the events that have taken place recently. I understand their laws but common sense goes a long way.


As far as the firefighter, given the events in the last week I applaud him. At the time he doesn’t know the kid’s basically pulling a prank. He sees a kid in tactical gear with a loaded ar-15 in a public place. To be clear I own a few guns. Even have a couple AR’s but in my opinion theres zero reason citizens should be open carrying an AR. It’s not normal and this day and age it incites fear and panic in the general public.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/juliareinstei…
But everything he done is within the letter of the law?....his argument will simply be that given recent events I felt the need to do this...
But everything he done is within the letter of the law?....his argument will simply be that given recent events I felt the need to do this for my own safety which could be the case.
Soo new question for you guys. Today there was a guy who placed empty pressure cookers in the subway in new york as well as the streets. The police are looking for him as a “person of interest”. Is it illegal? It’s certainly not normal just like walking through walmart with an AR. Not trying to argue just found it interesting thats all.
ns503
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NS Toolies CA
8/17/2019 6:06am
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Beyond bad taste. What a fuckin idiot. Open carry laws or not theres no fuckin reason to walk around a walmart with bulletproof vest and a...
Beyond bad taste. What a fuckin idiot. Open carry laws or not theres no fuckin reason to walk around a walmart with bulletproof vest and a loaded ar-15. Especially with the events that have taken place recently. I understand their laws but common sense goes a long way.


As far as the firefighter, given the events in the last week I applaud him. At the time he doesn’t know the kid’s basically pulling a prank. He sees a kid in tactical gear with a loaded ar-15 in a public place. To be clear I own a few guns. Even have a couple AR’s but in my opinion theres zero reason citizens should be open carrying an AR. It’s not normal and this day and age it incites fear and panic in the general public.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/juliareinstei…
But everything he done is within the letter of the law?....his argument will simply be that given recent events I felt the need to do this...
But everything he done is within the letter of the law?....his argument will simply be that given recent events I felt the need to do this for my own safety which could be the case.
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Soo new question for you guys. Today there was a guy who placed empty pressure cookers in the subway in new york as well as the...
Soo new question for you guys. Today there was a guy who placed empty pressure cookers in the subway in new york as well as the streets. The police are looking for him as a “person of interest”. Is it illegal? It’s certainly not normal just like walking through walmart with an AR. Not trying to argue just found it interesting thats all.
Public mischief?
APLMAN99
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Dallas, TX US
8/17/2019 12:29pm
You typically don't go to Walmart in body armor with a weapon and a 100 rounds. No prosecutor in this country would charge the firefighter for...
You typically don't go to Walmart in body armor with a weapon and a 100 rounds. No prosecutor in this country would charge the firefighter for a reasonable mistake made in the defense of others....
APLMAN99 wrote:
What is reasonable? MO is an open carry state, so if I see someone walking down the sidewalk with a rifle do I have the right...
What is reasonable? MO is an open carry state, so if I see someone walking down the sidewalk with a rifle do I have the right to draw a weapon on him? If he doesn't obey my "order" to stop, would it be reasonable for me to use force to stop him?

If the prosecutor wouldn't charge this man for drawing his weapon on this guy (assuming that the other guy was simply carrying and not actually threatening anyone) what would it take to bring charges? Would/should the firefighter's occupation make a difference?

This is a crazy situation, but it's one of those extremes that makes you wonder what happens if everyone carries, everyone draws their own inferences on what is a threat, etc.
Typically, the "totality of the circumstances doctrine" would apply.... but what do I know.Smile
The totality of the circumstances are that one man was doing something perfectly legal and another man held him at gunpoint for it.

After that we are sliding down some really subjective, slippery slopes. If we decide that it was too soon after the El Paso shooting, what would be the appropriate amount of time? If it were someone who always carried, should they be forced to stop carrying for a defined amount of time? If the guy had continued walking away from the firefighter, what would have been the outcome if he would have used deadly force to stop him?

I think that this shows that our laws, and perhaps even more importantly our opinions, on firearms make it clear that we may need to make our Second Amendment much more clear than it currently is.

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